June 15
2013
Discuss 'Much Ado About Nothing'.
If you have had the opportunity to see the movie, what did you think of it?
Simon
| Much Ado About Nothing
| 13:28 CET
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55 comments total
| tags: much ado about nothing
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[ edited by Fivewordsorless on 2013-06-15 23:14 ]
Fivewordsorless | June 15, 14:13 CET
WilliamTheB | June 15, 14:14 CET
Anyone have thoughts on the significance of the photographer? I've been thinking about her non-stop and I can't piece together any sort of coherent meaning to her presence. Unless I figure something out on my own, it's my number one question for Joss someday.
Oh, and of course Amy and Alexis were amazing, but for my money the real standout was Fran. He really sold the emotions and the language and everything and it felt like he honestly was just coming up with it on the spot. A really impressive performance.
I'm somewhat cold on the original play, and this version really helped me understand what Joss sees in it. Which, I imagine, is exactly what he'd want.
sumogrip | June 15, 14:24 CET
alanapaints | June 15, 14:40 CET
I'm not sure about the photographer, but I wondered about her at the time too. Maybe it's to comment on the constructed and staged nature of social interactions? And intrusion into private moments? I don't know.
Bluelark | June 15, 14:40 CET
Shouldn't this point to the official movie site? Or the other web page that lists theaters that are showing the movie?
OneTeV | June 15, 14:49 CET
Showing Beatrice & Bendick's 'past' explained a lot about their present situation. And underlining how easily both couples could be manipulated (jerked around) by their 'friends' is all too true. Shakespeare's story with Joss' direction (and the visual evidence of too much drinking) combined to be the very best version of 'Much Ado About Nothing' I've ever seen. Making the story flow in a meaningful, funny and romantic way.
Of course the brilliant subtlety of Nathan Fillion's Dogberry, and Tom Lenk's Verges made those characters actually laugh out loud funny for the first time (to me). Usually these characters are played as over the top clowns (as though the director didn't trust the comic relief to be funny... and ended up making them annoying), but Nathan and Tom under played these characters making their serious dedication to duty truly hilarious.
This is something special. I really want all my friends and family to enjoy it!
embers | June 15, 14:49 CET
PD: Rethinking the whole situation, if i had the money to go over there to kill you i probably would watch it instead. You are safe. For now. Time to try that voodoo thing again...
[ edited by Darkness on 2013-06-15 23:55 ]
[ edited by Darkness on 2013-06-15 23:55 ]
Darkness | June 15, 14:54 CET
This... I like this.
sumogrip | June 15, 15:10 CET
... But we decided Leonato is clearly like a politician, and he lives the life of an extremely rich politician. One of the things we added is that he has what I refer to as a court photographer, who’s always just there, taking pictures, because everything in the play is a big event, and very important people are always having their pictures taken during big events. But also, the way she’s looking at everyone, and the way we’re looking at everyone—which is very often through glass or in a reflection or distorted—and the way they’re all looking at each other and not really seeing each other is very much kind of the point of the thing. Also, they’re all super drunk, not gonna lie.
[ edited by theak on 2013-06-16 00:20 ]
theak | June 15, 15:20 CET
I recall being impressed with the comedy of Nathan Fillion and Tom Lenk as a duo. A mismatched pair that work together beautifully. And loved Alexis and his comedic bits. Everyone, really. But is it odd that I'm most impressed with the camera man that had to run up and down those stairs with Alexis? Who was that person!? Was it a person? Or was it a camera on a pulley? I really want to know.
NYPinTA | June 15, 15:32 CET
The photographer got crowded out a bit though because of the moments of slap my leg bursts of laughter and just awe at the acting.
Amy/Alexis were amazing as expected but I couldn't help but be so impressed by the mini-dramas and tragedies surrounding them too. Borrachio in particular (Spencer Treat Clark), Margaret (Ashely Johnson), Lenoato's Aid (Joshua Zar) and the mini triangle of love and rejection?
Usually, I never notice those minor parts as anything other than plot devices but I loved how HUMAN everyone was and how desperately funny and tragic even the most minor roles were mined. Kudos to Joss for not letting anyone be ignored.
I ended up seeing the movie twice with two different folks who normally aren't into either Shakespeare or Joss Whedon and they both came out of it loving the movie.
The thing I loved best was that sometimes I forgot I was watching SHAKESPEARE BEING PERFORMED as the language was being delivered so naturally.
Also, can I just call out how amazing Reed Diamond was? His prince was charming and fun and a little sad and lonely and privileged but still someone I want to see happy!
gus | June 15, 15:33 CET
I am not a fan of filmed Shakespeare comedies; Joss proved me wrong by making a funny movie. I'm not a fan of this play; Joss proved me incorrect by making this delight. I would be very curious to see his HAMLET.
Last thought: seriously, how is Amy Acker not a major actress yet? If not a star, then working steadily in tons of projects??
dottikin | June 15, 15:44 CET
I really hope I'll get to see it again in the cinema, because I imagine this is a film where there's more to be noticed every time. Plus it's so wonderful seeing these actors on the big screen. I've seen this play before, but I don't think I've ever really been moved by it.
Bluelark | June 15, 16:00 CET
Gill | June 15, 16:22 CET
Needless to say, this movie was all sorts of awesome. It took me a couple minutes to adjust to the language but otherwise, it was perfect. It's been a while since I actually laughed out loud during a movie but there were plenty of lines and sigh gags that had me giggling. It's hard to believe that this was put together in 12 days because the performances felt natural and the setting was so authentic; if I didn't know any better, then I would've been convinced that we were peeping into someone's home on a hidden camera or something.
And as much as I hate to admit it, I might actually like a Shakespeare play now and I'm mildly interested in reading a few more.
I took my soon-to-be 16 year old sister along and she loved it so much that she wants to watch it again if it opens up in a theater near our area.
IcedPhoenix | June 15, 18:09 CET
I loved "Sigh No More." It's been in my head for days. Quickly going on weeks, now.
While I like the effect of visually establishing the prior relationship of Beatrice and Benedick, I do wish it hadn't been quite so explicitly sexual, because I feel it did violence to the text at points, e.g. when Beatrice says "maiden pride, adieu! [...] Benedick, love on; I will requite thee." I'm not a scholar of 16th century English, and I understand that Joss explicitly distanced himself from discussing the importance of physical virginity, but I think that what Shakespeare meant by "maid" implies something of a relatively strict definition. Though I'm open to being persuaded otherwise.
Well, everyone's a critic. I loved the film, bought the soundtrack, and will see it again if it comes out in the theater near me. I planned my summer vacation around the fixed point of being in NYC on the 7th, and it was completely worth it.
Bishop | June 15, 18:24 CET
I have been hoping that someone would come along and reveal to me what I am apparently missing about what makes Shakespeare so appealing, and I was really hoping that person would be Joss, but alas, it was not to be.
I truly enjoyed the film, but I feel like I enjoyed it despite the Shakespeare and not because if it.
ntertanedangel | June 15, 18:48 CET
And also Sean Maher. I can't believe how his Don John sucked all the mirth out of a scene simply by walking in. (I'm just going to mention him because I love Maher, and it looks like everyone else covered everyone else.)
I'm not a huge comedy movie person, but I loved it. I saw it at the Brooklyn Academy of Music, and it was nearly nonstop laughing. My ribs started to hurt.
TenTonParasol | June 15, 19:43 CET
madmolly | June 15, 21:12 CET
I've seen the film twice so far. For me, as a couple other people have said, the second time was more emotionally powerful than the first. The first time I was simply agog; the film is so beautiful, so well thought through and interpreted, and I'd been waiting for it so eagerly I was exhausted. The second time, when Hero lifted her veil (I'm familiar with the play and I know very well that it's going to happen), I nearly burst into tears/fell to the floor/incurred dry-cleaning expenses.
Scriptwise, the one line above all that clinches this as a Joss Whedon film is two words long, and is spoken by Beatrice in the indoor scene following the wedding debacle when Benedick asks if there's anything he can do for her (I don't want to risk spoiling anyone by quoting it). Also very Whedony is the fact that the couple's first open vows of love for one another take place during that scene, at the most inopportune time possible--shades of "The Prom" when Buffy and Angel have their big relationship talk in the sewer.
[ edited by mozzarellademon on 2013-06-16 06:24 ]
mozzarellademon | June 15, 21:22 CET
Shapenew | June 15, 21:46 CET
impalergeneral | June 15, 21:50 CET
Simon | June 15, 23:07 CET
Loved the movie. I've never been a huge fan of the play, 'cos all that Big Men With Their Big Plans & virginity stuff left me a little cold, even with some historical perspective, but I saw Branagh's version 'cos, well, the cast was so Emma Thompson-ish. Naturally I was interested in Joss' take with some of the actors I've come to love.
Anyway, I think I never really got Beatrice's "O that I were a man" speech before - it just used to piss me off. But when Amy did it, I very unexpectedly started crying: partly because it felt this time like it contained all the pain of women who because they were women were prevented from doing something they felt driven to do. The frustration - and the longing. It kinda wrecked me, especially:
"I cannot be a man with wishing,
therefore I will die a woman with grieving."
Well, and plus: Amy. She just killed it. Afterward, Mr. QG turned to me and asked, "Did you know how good she was?!" (Almost like I'd been keeping her a big secret from him all these years.) "Why isn't she always everywhere?!"
I was all, "QuoterDude! Angel, hello?! Try watching it with me next time. Shhhhh. We'll talk."
That whole scene w/ Beatrice & Benedick was just thrillingly-intense.
The entire cast was so good, I'm almost afraid to mention anybody else for fear of leaving all the others out. But yeah, Fran got to me more than a few times, also Jillian - and weren't Sean and Riki naughty?
BTW, had no problem with Beatrice & Benedick's past connection being explicitly sexual - when Joss updated the play to present day, he understandably let "virginity" stand more for "faithfullness", and "chastity" was more purity of intent rather than technical virginity. It worked for me - and otherwise the various tricksters, etc. would've not only been assholes, but antiquated ones at that - it wouldn't have worked for who these people were meant to be in this version. (Rich, modern, powerful, entitled, iPhoned...)
(And OMFG, that house! And can I say without eliciting groans that yeah, of course, I love all of it, but I especially want that little library/study sooo bad?! Or rather, I think it wants me because I heard it calling my name everso faintly...)
I've gone on too much - sorry. I thought I'd enjoy it, but I didn't expect to be this much moved by it.
Anyway, gotta run, 'cos something's in my eye...
QuoterGal | June 15, 23:13 CET
Love Shakespeare, loved this. Hoping to go again next week.
redeem147 | June 15, 23:36 CET
Highlight acting wise apart from the superb Alexis and Amy was Clark Gregg and Reed Diamond but loved the chemistry between Beatrice (Amy) and Hero (Jillian Morgese)thought they worked well together.
banner | June 16, 00:27 CET
| June 16, 01:54 CET
Seeing it twice in one day was both good and a little tiring. The first audience was tiny - about 10 or so for a midday showing at a small obscure little arts cinema, probably to be expected. Seeing a few elderly Shakespeareheads laughing hysterically at Alexis' or Amy falling down the stairs was delightful. Evening audience was 4-5x that, and clearly a mix of Whedonites and others. Almost everyone sat right through the credits and seemed to have really enjoyed it.
Adore the score and have listened to it for days, and loved the use of Reed playing the guitar and Jed/Maurissa's cameo. Minor quibbles? Does take about 15 minutes to `get into`, some of the dialogue seemed incredibly quiet, and some of it could've been a little slower or generally clearer as even the second time there were some lines I just could not make out even a word of. It may also be just a touch on the long side but there's not much space for tweaking on that side so I let it slide.
The final shot of Alexis and Amy (used in the cinemagraphs) is painfully beautiful.
apollo11 | June 16, 02:10 CET
apollo11 | June 16, 02:11 CET
The house.
mozzarellademon | June 16, 02:21 CET
I shall return with thoughts.
(P.s. Anyone near VUE Finchley Road - join me!)
EDIT: just seen it and it was truly wonderful! I was grinning from the very first scene, although that was more tm do with seeing Amy and Alexis on the big screen (and Joss' name too- I'm getting rather fond of that!). Aside from this I think what really does come across is that this was a real labour of love for everyone involved and I love that it never tries to present itself as anything else.
I'm just absolutely smitten with it!
[ edited by Shep on 2013-06-16 17:31 ]
Shep | June 16, 05:11 CET
This quote from it made me happy: "As clear and light as a California wine, Shakespeare’s most sparkling dialogue meets its match in Whedon, whose immortal Buffy the Vampire Slayer catchphrase – “Love makes you do the wacky” – could serve as the film’s strapline."
The cinema where I saw it is at a university, so I got the impression that most of the (almost full) audience were fans of Joss or Shakespeare or both. It was so fun watching it in an audience like that. This was the best case possible of two different worlds merging!
Bluelark | June 16, 06:56 CET
Simon | June 16, 07:01 CET
I guess there were moments that surprised me that the audience found funny and there were moments that surprised me and I laughed but I was still caught up in the drama of the previous scene.
gus | June 16, 09:53 CET
gossi | June 16, 10:28 CET
I expected it to be good but perhaps not as wonderful and joyous as it was. Could not fault one cast member although Amy did, once again, bring me to tears and Alexis was hilarious. There were little touches that I adored - the cupcake, the car keys and the male guest at the party who would not leave Beatrice alone.
I had recently re-watched the Brannagh version and found Michael Keaton as Dogberry the oddest and most unfunny thing in the entire film. Nathan and Tom were the opposite, I loved their approach.
The score and Maurissa's performance was delightful. And finally that house. Wow. And was I the only one wishing I had a glass of wine and was a guest at those parties?
The Do That Girl | June 16, 11:36 CET
apollo11 | June 16, 11:40 CET
embers | June 16, 13:12 CET
And if you were to drink every time a character does, you may as well hook up an IV line with alcohol attached from start to finish. ;)
apollo11 | June 16, 13:30 CET
azzers | June 16, 14:31 CET
Cue someone on the Internet compiling data on alcohol consumed per character in this film....
Bishop | June 16, 17:23 CET
TenTonParasol | June 16, 18:04 CET
I could now start to look at the other actors, not just the ones currently speaking,and that was fascinating. Armed with all the interviews, I could watch the lost keys bit knowing that Nathan and Tom had made that up on the spot or laugh at the over the top exercising, knowing that Alexis had come up with that unbeknownst to Joss. It was like a running commentary in my head.
I listened more to the movie score this time, as I have the soundtrack and appreciated the themes that follow the characters.
And Gus, I absolutely agree with you about what a great job Reed Diamond does. Charming, fun, sad & lonely indeed.
Lioness | June 17, 04:43 CET
ETA: The other standout, of course, was the house. Holy wow.
ETA: The strange thing about the film is that so many of the stray bits or choices that don’t quite work nonetheless often are still hilarious. Meanwhile, I might spend my second time through just checking for who I recognize in the background and who I don’t. Where was Shirk? Fury? I saw Cole.
[ edited by The One True b!X on 2013-06-19 07:33 ]
@theonetruebix | June 18, 22:08 CET
apollo11 | June 20, 14:56 CET
I was so focused on seeing the next bit that I had read about that I couldn't really enjoy the movie as a movie, but that's why I'm seeing it Sunday too. I loved Mo and Jed's scene and thought Borachio's motivations were interesting. Nathan and Tom stole the house. At the beginning of the credits some woman in the theatre turned to her partner and said "Who was that Dogberry, he was great," and the theatre cracked up.
Many of the people I went with either weren't Shakespeare fans or not Whedonites but they all liked it. They enjoyed the drunken revelry and the sight gags. The Ethopie line made most of my coworkers uncomfortable. I enjoyed Claudio's overacting but the staging of that line was incredibly awkward. It took everyone a while to get into the language, but even until then the acting of Acker, Gregg, and Morgese was sufficient to get a glimpse into their domestic life.
Even though I knew the plot, I kept waiting for Diamond to turn evil, that he would be The Mayor-esque. I really enjoyed Diamond and Acker's scene talking about getting her husband, and can't wait to see it again *not* expecting him to turn evil.
Valantha | June 22, 03:27 CET
Thought the "Ethiop" line was framed stunningly.
Be very careful rigging trapeze from trees, especially duo trapeze--it's impossible to safely determine the strength or weaknesses of a branch at any given time. I work at a circus school.
Thursday Next | June 22, 19:12 CET
Loved the Ethiope line. Both hilarious and also a clever way to address race in a play that scarcely mentions it. I know some people felt differently about that line, though.
It was great seeing so many familiar faces together in one project, as well as newcomers! And thanks for the safety advice, Thursday Next!
Like With Pie | June 22, 20:46 CET
I laughed so many times--both the lines and the added visual jokes were funny, throughout the play. And other moments were just magic--like the party scene, with the trapeze artists, underscored by Maurissa's vocals. Just absolutely enchanting.
And of course Amy Acker is heartbreaking in the climactic scene ("Oh, that I were a man!"). She's amazing. And Nathan Fillion is a perfect Dogberry. And Jillian Morgese is a fantastic Hero. And the black-and-white cinematography is beautiful -- it creates a sense of glamor and timelessness that is perfect for a modern adaptation of Shakespeare. And it serves as a visual reminder of classic films characterized by witty verbal sparring.
And the location! Ye gods, what a gorgeous house! And that garden--and the amphitheater, in the wedding scene! The very same one, I assume, where those original Shakespeare readings happened. It's just magic.
I love it all so, so much. I am still smiling just thinking about it.
erendis | June 23, 19:32 CET
I also liked Evil Sean Maher quite a lot. Especially the cupcake.
erendis | June 23, 19:44 CET
For example I never before understood why Don John does what he does aside from "well he's evil and it's necessary for the plot duh geez," but Sean Maher sold it for me. Previous incarnations of this guy he's just twirling his moustache and stabbing people in the back and I don't get why. In Sean Maher's hands, Don John almost has depth. He does this cuz he enjoys manipulating people. He gets off on pushing other people's buttons. Okay. That works. It's still evil for evil's sake but i could buy it. And yes the cupcake was a nice touch. From now on at conventions, everybody should call Sean Maher "Cupcake."
I don't have the whole play memorized and even I could tell Whedon kinda butchered the dialogue, but this too (like Don John) is a necessary evil. Less is more for cinema. Joss broke the script down to bare necessities, yet distilled it without diluting it. So difficult to do this well. I've seen community theater versions of this where the editing was painful. Entire scenes removed for time that totally disrupt the plot. I can't imagine Whedon's version failing to reach anyone of any age. Shakespeare formally makes it to the 21st century. This rendition should be accessible to everybody's temperament, if they but meet it halfway. Can schools use it already? Where might one learn if its having any success scholastically? Too soon? Maybe after the DVD release? While I wasn't pleased with the B/W approach at first, I totally forgot about it by the time I got that Bea was pretending to sleep. In hindsight I think at points I actually was seeing it in color in my mind's eye. I was just unconsciously filling in where I wanted color. Cuz in my memory now the grass is green.
I love the visual gags. Using a children's bedroom for the visiting veterans. Gregg's Leonato falling asleep in the kitchen, Denisof's stage business reminded me of a young Cary Grant. Acker's whirlwind of emotions and how she sold every barb and stinger with a macabre combination of sitcom ditz and soap opera anti-heroine. Hell hath no fury like a woman ditched. And that may be the best bit of all. I never got before in the many times I've been coerced to review this play again over the years, that the reason Bea hates Ben is cuz years ago they loved one another once and he dissed her. The opening scene where he leaves w/o saying goodbye (and you know he never called cuz men don't cuz they're stupid) made a world of difference for selling their entire dance. I thought before they were just so full of themselves until they could see past their own arrogance and fall for each other, but that never worked for me. This makes much more sense.
It's in the words. I can see that now. I just wasn't bothering to look close enough to find what makes this play really tick. When it comes to Shakespeare I can be a little dogberryish. Slow on the uptake, but i'm well-intentioned.
...
OH! And the music! This might be the first soundtrack I break down and purchase since Once More With Feeling. Maurissa Tancharoen is an angel. Love her voice and the Sigh No More song especially gives me goosebumps. Hey Nonny Nonny! =)
[ edited by ZachsMind on 2013-06-27 03:50 ]
ZachsMind | June 26, 18:37 CET
Agreed that you sometimes forgot you were listening to Shakespearean language. Excellent delivery, great comic moments. Would be interested in learning more about how it differed from the play. Can't wait to see it again anyway. Good date movie I think!
If we're digging for criticisms, I have to admit the photographer had me a little lost (was expecting the photographs to turn up in the credits, but it ended on such a pitch perfect note it probably wouldn't have been appropriate). I was also missing the hot pink text that was in all the posters! But other than that... the black and white was gorgeous :)
MattK | June 30, 04:19 CET
MattK | June 30, 04:21 CET
Really my first exposure to this play, I was never a fan of Shakespeare. I just can't read a play... But I loved it! Took me about five minutes to acclimate to the language, but it was pretty seamless after that. Thought everyone was excellent, especially Tom and Nathan. Loved Amy and Alexis, except when they kissed. It was clearly stage-kissing, which I understand, I don't need to see their tongues, I just didn't think it was pulled off too well. That is my only criticism!
Miko | July 16, 19:56 CET