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June 26 2013

(SPOILER) Discuss Angel & Faith #23. It's the third part of the "What You Want, Not What You Need" arc.

I have my copy of Angel & Faith #23.Part III of "What You Want,Not What You Need."

I would compare this issue a bit to this month's Buffy # 22.Both were heavy action oriented fight issues but Angel & Faith # 23 worked better for me.I think because I'm more emotionally involved in the Angel & Faith story than what's going on in Buffy.This had some very strong character beats in between the fighting IMO.The showdown with Angel and Whistler,.Nadira entering the fray with Faith's thoughts on it..Not to say that Xander's arc and the emotion of Dawn's plight aren't interesting too but it feels like there more at stake here than in Buffy and Whistler just makes a better big bad I still think than Severin and Simone(I don't consider Pearl and Nash big bads.They're the little bads IMO).The showdown between Angel and Whistler had weight for me given their history and Whistler's goals on basically completing what Angel didn't as Twilight last season.

I also enjoyed the little bits with Giles,his aunts and Alasdair but hope they have a larger role next issue.

As for Nadira,I think most saw her death coming and while I guess there's always hope she survived and it will be seen next isuse.It does not look good.I really did like the character and would love to see her continue on.She acted as another side to the Holtz,Robin Wood triangle in a way.

In regards to the cliffhanger,well it looks like the badies partially succeeded in their plans so far.We'll have to see if this is reversed somehow or spreads farther.

I will say again that I'm not a fan of the idea of a time reversal as has been speculated lately.Not after basically just doing that sort of thing in After The Fall and I wasn't a fan of it than either but will allow that it was handled probably the best it could be.

Even though they said there would be no more crossovers this season,I'm still curious about how what's happening here with magic would impact what's going on with Dawn over in Buffy.

Good issue.
I especially loved how basically the whole gang came together again (physically at the same location) for the main climax of the season and how each member contributed to the fight in their own way. This new fang gang feels like a substitute family in the same way the original Scoobies and A.I. did.
I did a summary and review for this one. Good issue!
Faith's thoughts on Nadira were really moving. I can't possibly get enough of lil' Giles. I just want more and more lil' Giles. I love that the aunt's contribution of "braveness" was to run up the building, throw some weapons at Angel and Faith and run away. Those two are awesome. What are we supposed to take as having happened here? The magic bomb effected a block? Did anyone die? It's just one neighborhood cause it wasn't high enough? Had it been high enough it would be the whole world? Splainy?
Oh, and from the notes page, does anyone want to give away from me what the heck that person is talking about ... circled in blue on page two?
I didn't particularly like Nadira personally but removing the only person who was maintaining being openly angry with Angel and making it sound like Angel went into Twilight unknowing of the deaths it would cause, well I found it disappointing writing.

There seemed so much potential for this season being a really deep one for Angel but then it was decided he would be repeating mistakes rather than learning from them. Still the potential existed for character exploration but it just feels more and more like an experiment in reset without any time travel factor included. Angel may as well just say get over it, S8 didn't happen. If there is going to be no self-realisation and no growth and noone is allowed to hold a grudge then that is what we have all done (aided by a hefty dose of rescripting intentions etc). I appreciate there was a lot about S8 people didn't like but don't just bin it. Falling for Twilight played well for Angel's personality flaws but rather than seeing his strengths the other side or exploring the flaws S9 is diluting his complexity, making him too vanilla. Every issue I have my fingers crossed there will be some clever writing which brings it all together. I'm still hopeful, it isn't over yet. But with two issues left I am getting a twitch and am preparing for a sense of loss of what is massively unrealised potential.

On a happier note, I love Rebekah's art, teen!Giles is great.

[ edited by Stoney on 2013-06-27 09:37 ]
Thought this was excellent and once again showed up Buffy's failings. This is how you use action to move the story forward, to have things actually happen, to make things have a purpose and meaning. I actually felt excited reading this rather than the dullness that Buffy is. The characters feel like they are who they are supposed to be not a cardboard cut out lacking any personality.

Whatever they have to do or pay to keep hold of Christos Gage they should do it now, he really has done amazing work, the art has been fantastic too.
Yet another shallow, action-filled issue, just like the Buffy one, only with one more convenient death and more retcon (which is ironic, since it's the Buffy title where the villains are trying to reset the narrative...in Angel& Faith, the writers are doing it). The conversation between Angel and Whistler may be a good scene if it didn't completely contradict what actually happened in season 8. Angel may not have thought that BILLIONS would die back then, but he sure was willing to have people die, and killed quite a few of them, including over 200 Slayers. As a matter of fact, his first question to Dog!Twilight was "Will it involve killing?" and the answer was that sadly, it will.

Nadira's death is a complete waste. She was an interesting character who had a legitimate grudge against Angel (not that she was the only one, but she was the only one who actually dared say it out loud and stick to it, in a series where criticizing Angel for anything he ever did seems to be treated like a capital offense) and who also was justifiably angry at Faith (for abandoning the Slayers she was supposed to help and lying to them), and it would have been interesting to follow how her relationship with Angel and with Faith was going to develop. There will be none of that now, and I don't know what narrative purpose her death is supposed to serve. Cautionary tale that you shouldn't be ruled by "hate"? The series hasn't done a good job convincing me that she was so full of hate. What did she do, say a few angry words to Angel and Faith? She didn't even try to kill Angel, just Pearl and Nash, who are, you know, the villains in the process of trying to kill billions of people.
I agree with TimeTravellingBunny that it's hard to see how Nadira's demise (which I suspect is only temporary) has anything to do with 'hate' in particular.

In actual fact, it's more to do with her putting aside hate to help Angel (who she doesn't much like, for obvious reasons) and help defeat the villains.

Mind you, at the end of the Eyghon arc, Nadira seemed to have accepted that Angel wasn't all bad (to a point). It was Faith she couldn't forgive for lying to her.

Yet another instance - like the way Buffy is constantly blamed for breaking the Seed, when Angel's actions left her no choice - of the comics laying disproportionate blame on female characters
It's great seeing Giles on team Angel. We never got to see that when the shows were on the air. There are so many fun dynamics to explore between him and Angel. And I LOVE seeing more of Giles the magic user. On TV, everything magic related had to revolve around Willow. I like seeing now how adept Giles is as well

I like the dialog between Angel and Whistler, who represents to me a part of Angel's personality. If he kills Whistler it will be a symbolic change for Angel. Everything we hated about Twilight is manifest in Whistler. He's essentially Twilight staring back at Angel like a mirror reflection of who Angel was in season 8.

I love how Faith comes across as more of a true mentor and big sister to the other slayers than Buffy ever did. You could really feel the pain of her losing Nadira. I never got the sense that Buffy ever really hurt over losing any of her slayers. Nadira is the second slayer Faith failed to save. It's going to be interesting seeing the effect that has on her

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