His theory, of course, is contradicted by the text of the show itself, as the Boyd reveal happens via flashback to a time that pre-dates the start of the series and Boyd's handler behavior.

@theonetruebix | July 23, 19:49 CET

A comment in the article pointed out that he could've implanted himself with the Boyd personality and had it programmed to revert back to his original self. Not sure if the tech could do that on its own without some sort of trigger (there are three flowers in a vase..)but that would make sense if he found the idea of befriending/handling Echo hard to stomach (i.e. being one of the 'good guys' or however he defined those he despised)

Jonnathan | July 23, 20:30 CET

He could've made the trigger something other than words, like an event or something. Or Clyde 2.0 or Clive could've done it.
However, I think that's just fanwank...er, actorwank? I think Boyd was just simply faking his handler persona.

GreatMuppetyOdin | July 24, 00:30 CET

While I believe the show made it pretty clear he wasn't an imprint at any point (consider how often he was around the disrupters for one thing, or that we saw the flashback to him meeting Caroline in that body), I seem to remember one of the behind the scenes sections on the BR set had him stating that (iirc) that `wasn't Boyd's original body` or that it wouldn't be the last we saw of him... something to that effect. I guess he has his own theories, but they don't particularly work out.

[ edited by apollo11 on 2013-07-24 13:41 ]

apollo11 | July 24, 04:36 CET

I'm sure that transition would have worked out more smoothly if we had another season. We miss you, Dollhouse.

chrisobrien | July 24, 05:50 CET

Was Boyd ever around when they were using that thing that gave actives nose bleeds?

GreatMuppetyOdin | July 24, 07:53 CET

I have to wonder - the scene late in S-2 with the newly radiclaized gang sitting around in Adele's office - could that have ever even happened if Echo had had a sympathetic and skeptical handler like Boyd appeared to be. Could the conspiracy of resistance ever come together, or would Echo and her Handler both have been neutralized before becoming a threat?

DaddyCatALSO | July 24, 08:37 CET

When you watch the early episodes, knowing what we found out about Boyd puts it in a very different perspective. I think he was intended to be the villain all along.

redeem147 | July 24, 09:52 CET

I actually have a half memory of an article that indicated bad!Boyd was not a plan from the beginning. I don't remember where, though.

@theonetruebix | July 24, 12:40 CET

Yeah, I remember that too, bix (because at the time it gave me a personal, "Ah ha! I knew I was right to dislike it!"). I wanna say it was an interview with Tim.

sumogrip | July 24, 13:13 CET

When you watch the early episodes, knowing what we found out about Boyd puts it in a very different perspective

Could you give an example? I have to say that it's something I simply don't find plausible--I think the writers were too swayed by the "ooh, won't that be shocking!" factor without thinking hard enough about the "wait, does this actually make any sense" part of it. But I'd be interested if you had some particular moments or scenes that appear in a whole new light when we realize he's the bad guy.

Yoink | July 24, 13:17 CET

sumogrip, I had that notion too, that it came from Tim, but I wasn't confident enough to suggest it. So between the two of us thinking that, it probably was. ;)

@theonetruebix | July 24, 13:52 CET

I believe it was an interview with Tim (or vaguely possibly a podcast) that said it. I personally never found it as impossible as some seemed to take it. If you pay attention in a rewatch anything said about Boyd and what he was doing prior to becoming a handler was always a) said/assumed by someone else (Mr Dominic and Topher mainly) and b) was never remarked on either way by Boyd. As a retrofit it works admirably well, imho.

There are a few lines that take on a very different meaning when seen again. It's not one of the better ones but something like his feelings on the Dollhouse "We're pimps and killers, but in a philanthropic way" line would be one.

EDIT: Yep. io9. The idea came up early in the process for season 2.
http://io9.com/5444956/the-truth-about-dollhouses-evil-mastermind

[ edited by apollo11 on 2013-07-24 23:09 ]

apollo11 | July 24, 14:08 CET

As much as I love Dollhouse, this is one twist that still makes me uncomfortable. It's because the reveal specifically discounts all the most loveable traits of the character and simplifies many of the character's choices. I remember reading the interview about it not being planned in Season 1 too. I'd love to hear an in-depth explanation of the writers' reasoning. But my reservations are from a character-based, not logical, perspective. It does make sense. We knew nothing about his background, and it also explains why Echo was permitted and encouraged to resist the imprints for so long.

GreatMuppetyOdin, in 'Echoes' Boyd was affected by the drugs the regular way, proving that he didn't have Active architecture. But that episode also has one line that could retrospectively be taken as a hint that he's more than he seems. One of the drugged students tells him "There are mansions in your eyes", which was never explained and probably meant to mean nothing, only it could be taken as some sort of foreshadowing.

Bluelark | July 24, 14:19 CET