August 16 2013
"Separating art from its creators".
One writer/contributor in the AV Club Q&A argues that Dollhouse "can stand on its own merits" and "tends to suffer from its inclusion in, and comparison to, the list of Joss Whedon TV shows."
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Dana5140 | August 16, 15:25 CET
Jaymii | August 16, 16:21 CET
swanjun | August 16, 16:25 CET
I think it's fair though-- despite not being a space-epic I felt like it tried to do much more ambitious things than Firefly did but because it consistently struggled its first couple episodes of each season it's more readily characterized as a troubled work. (Granted yeah, maybe it only had more enjoyable episodes to me since it also had more episodes.)
[ edited by orangewaxlion on 2013-08-17 01:28 ]
orangewaxlion | August 16, 16:27 CET
luciddreams | August 16, 22:56 CET
Bayne | August 17, 00:00 CET
I actually liked the show a whole lot. Yeah, there's some crappy episodes here and there, but you know - not unheard of in TV. There's also a lot of interesting ideas explored, it feels different to prior work, and ultimately has one of my fave Whedonverse characters (Topher - who I disliked at first a whole lot). Plus season two was the dogs balls.
gossi | August 17, 03:17 CET
steverogers | August 17, 07:55 CET
[ edited by DaddyCatALSO on 2013-08-17 20:06 ]
DaddyCatALSO | August 17, 11:05 CET
Dollhouse was different. I remember loud debates about who/what people like Ballard, Topher, and Adele even were. They weren't simple archetypes thrown together to propel a story: they were complex characters in really bizarre situations. Hell, how layered is just the episode Haunted in which an imprinted Sierra hangs out to be Topher's friend. How you feel about it is frankly a bit more nuanced than "I aim to misbehave."
azzers | August 17, 17:09 CET
That said: anything Tatiana Maslany does on Orphan Black kind of puts anything Eliza ever did on Dollhouse to shame. That's not so much a criticism on Eliza as it is me being in complete awe of what Tatiana can do. Incredible actress on an incredible show. One that Dollhouse fans might like as well, for that matter.
Mitholas | August 18, 03:46 CET
zeitgeist | August 18, 07:04 CET
Not really. One of the things that bugged me about the show and it's reception during its run was how much some people tended to go on about how "layered" and morally "complex" it was when - to me at least - it very rarely came across as actually being either (maybe on its surface, but if you actually stopped to think about things they rarely stayed that way.) Example: Sierra's imprint from "Haunted" - creepy and pathetic (in reference to Topher.) Not complicated at all.
[ edited by brinderwalt on 2013-08-18 16:19 ]
brinderwalt | August 18, 07:18 CET
Ah, there is the familiar attitude about Dollhouse I've known and sorta loathed. I'm with azzers on this, that Joss was trying to rise above simplistic moralism with Dollhouse, in a way that he was also doing with Firefly from another angle. For me, the closer-to-life setting and the nature of the characters' relationships both to each other and the audience foregrounded this in a way that was more compelling for me than in the sidebar (and, granted, all too brief) glimpses of the Alliance and their history.
Out of curiosity - having not seen Orphan Black yet (thought it is on the list), what entertainment qualifies as actually layered and complex to you, and what else gets the claim that you think it doesn't deserve in the same way Dollhouse did? (I have some speculations on the second, I admit.)
counti8 | August 18, 09:51 CET
Conversely, Dollhouse had great performances by several of the "secondary" characters (Enver, Olivia, Fran, Dichen...) as well as pretty spectacular writing/storytelling from "Man on the Street" forward. The one comparative "weakness" was Eliza's performance. And I'm not saying she was bad, just that Maslany was much better in direct comparison - a comparison that would also apply to pretty much anyone else, btw.
steverogers | August 18, 11:14 CET
To me, it's just worlds of part from a show in which we spend an entire season with the audience actively rooting against the guy trying to bring the Dollhouse down. Especially when that's exactly the endgame Echo is going for and as an audience what we want to see in truth.
azzers | August 18, 15:35 CET
Sunfire | August 18, 18:59 CET
Dana5140 | August 19, 02:16 CET
And I would never say the show forgets that it is a dubious premise for a predominately action show. It may have on occasions left the audience to make its own conclusions, but it never said that it was a joyful place. I do think a lot of the more hard hitting approach was probably curtailed by a network that was confusing sex with sexy though.
Vandelay | August 19, 12:12 CET
MrArg | August 19, 14:16 CET