This site will work and look better in a browser that supports web standards, but it is accessible to any browser or Internet device.

Whedonesque - a community weblog about Joss Whedon
"Out. For. A. Walk. Bitch."
11945 members | you are not logged in | 21 December 2014




Tweet







September 03 2013

(SPOILER) Behind Buffy Season 9 #24. Andrew Chambliss discusses the penultimate issue of Buffy Season 9.

Contains a small hint for the season finale.

It is interesting that this is the first time a slayer was turned.
I think one of the old Dark Horse comic books had it as a plotline? I swear I read a tale that retrofitted Dawn into an early season of Buffy and there was mention of a Slayer turned into a Vampire.
Yeah she was Japanese
http://buffy.wikia.com/wiki/Yuki_Makimura
It's not that hard to believe this is the first time it's been done. The original Dark Horse comics don't count because they aren't canon, and multiple slayers didn't come into being until the final episode of Buffy. I suppose it could have happened in Season 8. I still hope Simone has a Slayer's instinct to kill her vampire self/commit suicide.
What's difficult to believe is that it wasn't until breaking this story that it had even occurred to any of them. Especially Joss. It's not even a question of noticing that your in-the-trenches discussions of their mythology have pondered this for years, but to not come up with it before now on their own as just an idea? I thought these people were supposed to be nerds, like us!
At least some of the original Dark Horse comics are canon. Dracula, for instance.
None of the original Dark Horse comics are canon. Scott Allie, Joss, etc. have said so.
Think Sun might mean the "Tales of..." that discussed Xander's visit to Dracula's castle after Season 7. My own interpretation on that point is that "Antique" is only canonical insofar as the explicit facts referenced in "Wolves at the Gate" (i.e. that he went there, not that he was actually a hunchback, etc).

But, no, the regular Dark Horse published monthly of stories tucked in as concurrent stories with televised seasons are all non-canon. Although, Joss has previously said that the Dark Horse comic adaptation of his original movie screenplay is "essentially canon". I wouldn't mind if that, "Slayer, Interrupted", and "Viva Las Buffy" were all canonized.
Since Tales of the Slayers and Tales of the Vampires contained original Joss work, all the stories included in those titles are canon.
Tales of the Slayers, Tales of the Vampires, Fray, and Buffy: The Origin are canonical, among the pre-season 8 Dark Horse comics.
Isn't Buffy the origin only "barely canonical" ? I'm pretty sure I've heard that once.
His exact phrase was "essentially canon" if I recall, which means what it means. Qualified, by its own terms, but to what extent? Who knows.

As for "Tales of...", I assume little. Doesn't seem to follow logically just because Joss' own work appears in an anthology of other works, that all works therein are canon, even if Joss didn't write them. Technically, it's an assumption that even Joss' work is, unless he said so (he can "doodle" too, surely; he can write "AU" for his own stuff if he wants). That's why I adopt a "adopted by reference" view of those books; I consider the parts of them canon that are referenced in an unambiguously canonical work.

FWIW, that does seem to be the same approach Dark Horse is now taking toward IDW's publications; they are canonical when and as far as they are referenced.

Lots of ideas that make it into canonical plot lines begin as non-canon. They may never have noticed the previous Slayer-Vamp storyline, but another example is "villains trying to wipe out Slayer line by killing potentials". Licensed non-canon work are like free brainstorming for them. For that matter, so is fanfic.
Canon is silly. This is not the Bible, and any storyline can be rejected in the future for the needs of the moment or the story. Was it not Joss who said that S8 and 9 could be rejected if the show were ever to return in movie or TV format? I forget, but I swear I remember that from somewhere.
He did, and whether they can or can't in the future, it matters a great deal in the here and now to understand what the actual events are that have happened within the story, because they are the things which should be informing the characters' choices, motives, and relationships -- not to mention the writers' duties to coherence on those matters. Even if they had multiple alternate Buffyverse's in publication at the same time, it would still matter for the audience to be able to grok that what happens in A is real and is reflected throughout A, and B for B, etc. Who dumped who, what kills this monster, whether that villain of the week died or escaped or existed in the first place matters quite a bit if the point is for the world these characters inhabit in any given story to feel real.

[ edited by KingofCretins on 2013-09-03 22:48 ]
He really DID say that ? Damn it, I would be so pissed off to learn the comic book I've been reading (and buying) for years would turn into a non-canonical thing. I don't read non-canonical comics/stuff because it's ... non-canonical. Canon really matters to me.
Yeah, I winced when I read it at the time (what, mid-to-late Season 8?), as I thought it pretty tone-deaf to, if nothing else, the commercial interests of the continuations, which clearly owed their entire burst of initial interest to their status as the offical ongoing story. And over and above that, yeah, it was cold water on anyone who actually was feeling a level of sincere investment in the story.
That's exactly what I was thinking, some "shut up and take my money" stuff. I'm disappointed to know that. Because yeah, I actually love S8 and Angel & Faith. S9 is flawed, but I still enjoy it ... Crap.

Now hoping that if a BTVS movie is released one day, it would be some kind of comic-book adaptation (with some adjustments, it could be pretty awesome)

[ edited by Stelian on 2013-09-04 00:12 ]
To be perfectly honest, I don't' think a movie or television series set in the same continuity as Buffy and Angel is ever going to happen.

And, in the event that all of the stars did align and it happened, I think that a lot of the developments from the later television seasons wouldn't be referenced, either. By the time BTVS ended, it had moved so far beyond the core concept of a high school cheerleader that hunts vampires that a movie would be incomprehensible to mainstream audiences.

For anyone to put up the money to produce a "Buffy" movie with the television actors and setting it in that continuity, the movie will have to accessible to Joe Sixpack. It will have to be something like Buffy, Willow, Xander, Faith?, Angel?, Spike? Cordelia(???), et al, getting together for a high school reunion with nary a mention of anything that happened after they left high school (ie, season three and "Graduation Day"). It won't satisfy the hardcore fans and continuity wonks.

Any "Buffy" movies or television series that get made in the future are going to be reboots or reimaginings.
Joss wouldn't have agreed to do season 8 as a canon continuation of the series if there were any chance whatsoever of continuing the story with the original cast, in TV or movie form. He has accepted that the chances of that happening are absolute zero. And in any case, at this point he wouldn't trash 6 years worth of storytelling and character development. The story has gone where he wanted it to go.

I believe Joss has also acknowledged the importance of canon. Just like in the real world, an imaginary world in order to be plausible needs to differentiate between "what really happened" and what didn't.
Joss has said at least once that if the opportunity came up he'd be fine with throwing the comic continuity away "like that". He's also referenced in at least one commentary (I think the one for "Chosen" when discussing the slightly-easier-to-kill Turok-Han) that he won't let it get in the way of a story if he needs to put it to one side either.

Believe in addition to the Japanese slayer, there was another turned slayer in the Tales Of... series too. Mentioned in passing, at least as I always recalled there being one who was simply a normal vampire after. Could be wrong.
KingofCretins: I've often felt that, if BtVS had been a series of novels instead of a dramatic broadcast, the movie, Viva Las Buffy, and Slayer Interrupted would make a good first novel in the sequence.

pacer: If it becomes plausible career-wise, Joss could do the same thing with future independent stories set in the Buffyverse but with no direct connections to previous stories. He might even throw in cameo appearances showing an old charcater in an unexpected relationship or physical condition just to disturb the hardcore followers and ex-followers.

apoll011: If it comes to that, the novel Tempted Champions featured a SLayer/vampire.

[ edited by DaddyCatALSO on 2013-09-04 20:39 ]

You need to log in to be able to post comments.
About membership.



joss speaks back home back home back home back home back home