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September 12 2013

(SPOILER) Scott Allie's Slayalive Q/A for Buffy #25. There might be light hints for season 10.

I don't have a Slayalive account, so I wish someone had asked about Koh. Setting up the mystery of his jailer in the first issue and not paying it off by the season finale was quite disappointing.
Not really sure I get the Fred Illyria thing. I thought Fred's soul was utterly and ireevocably gone when Illyria took over her body. So, how can Fred's sould still be there in Illyria?

[ edited by Dana5140 on 2013-09-12 20:01 ]
Not really sure I get the Fred Illyria thing. I thought Fred's soul was utterly and ireevocably gone when Illyria took over her body. So, how can Fred's sould still be there in Illyria?

Because the people who told us Fred's soul was gone were unreliable villains with a vested interest in preventing anyone from trying to get Fred back. What characters tell us is sometimes wrong, and I've been holding out hope since "A Hole in the World" that was the case. At least now we have the first official confirmation that it's possible.
Dana5140, AndrewCrossett - Makes sense to me. And also, albeit in a "potentially good-ish" way, Josses my own plans for getting Fred back in my fic 'verse, which fortunately I never wrote.
I'm glad he mentions how one could surmise TOYL itself altered that future anyway. I'd always assumed that's what the whole fade to white and back was all about.
"Not really sure I get the Fred Illyria thing. I thought Fred's soul was utterly and ireevocably gone when Illyria took over her body. So, how can Fred's sould still be there in Illyria?"

Energy cannot be created or destroyed, but it can change form.
Okay, so AndrewCrosset says it is a lie; pacer says it is just an energy change. Which is it? I just want to stay true to what we were told in the TV show, and this makes no sense to me, all alternative possibilities aside.
Why does this part need to stay "true" to the tv show so badly? The comics are an expansion and continuation of the tv show. They can contradict, validate, retcon or reinforce developments from the series.

[ edited by watcherinthewoods on 2013-09-12 22:44 ]
Just starting to read this now. Since I've kinda already spoiled myself, despite only getting #24 of both A&F and BtVS on the mail today (cheaper international shipping, and binging shipments to save dough, this is what happens).

I am starting to assume we'll probably get the 1st concrete details about Season 10 during NYCC (as nothing was said during SDCC, beyond reconfirming that S10 would happen) which is about a month away, the basic structure, titles that will be published. I'm also assuming those Firefly related teasers will get the pay-off during that event, for some joint Whedonverse in comics announcement.
The comic books are supposed to be 'canon' and to say that the bad guys lied about Fred, well, the secret has now been exposed. Seems pretty straight-forward. Also, if a soul leaves the body to make room for the vampire demon, what is that demon inhabiting the body? Another soul? Or a 'spirit'? A 'bad guy' might also tell a half-truth to get his or her way. Maybe Fred, and anyone else, has a soul and a 'spirit', and when a soul is destroyed the spirit lives on, and if brought back to inhabit a body, makes a new soul for itself...
Okay, so AndrewCrosset says it is a lie; pacer says it is just an energy change. Which is it?

Not necessarily either. These are just fannish speculations. Scott Allie said he thinks Fred's soul was still there and that seemed to be the consensus of the comics people, though he doesn't specifically say whether Joss agreed (or expressed any opinion at all).

The Buffyverse concept of the soul is really, really wonky. In my (non-canon) opinion, a soul is just a power source that enables humans to connect to each other and therefore gives us the quality of empathy. The personality and memories are separate from that. (Note that when Angel and Spike got their souls back, they didn't get any memories of what their souls were doing during those decades. Memories, personality and "selfhood" seem to go with the body, not the soul).

Illyria had all of Fred's memories, her personality (when she chose) and her body. She was obviously capable of empathy, though whether that was because of her own soul, Fred's soul within her, or whatever Old Ones have instead of a soul, is never revealed. There was really nothing of Fred missing except self-awareness.

I was hoping that with Illyria de-powered, Fred's self-awareness would re-surface and we'd get to see both of them, now fully separate personalities, forced to deal with occupying the same body. There could have been a lot of story potential there.
My view of such things seems to have evolved over the years. I used to be very concerned about the consistency of the mechanics of magic, souls, etc. but these days, it seems like arguing about the internal workings of a phaser. Maybe it makes me a lazy shallow viewer/reader (I actually fear it's so), but if the writers aren't interested in directly exploring/explaining, I kind of suspect it's not going to be productive for me to put much thought into it either. I don't think there are going to be any satisfying answers to fit the events if it wasn't actually thought out in advance anyway, so I restrict myself to caring about what the writers seem to emphasize as important. At least for the moment, Fred and Illyria are both gone. I leave it there.

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