Oh please let this be true so I can breathe again! Even with the new episodes I haven't been able to fully enjoy them because in the back of my mind is the thought that this is one of the last we will ever see.

kdeweb | March 06, 03:07 CET

I've amended your subject line to fit in more accurately with the matter in concern. I have to admit I would be amazed if the WB turned round and said "oh we were wrong, here's another season". They made a very public execution of Angel and were well aware at the time of what the reaction would be from the fans. They know they can ride out the storm.

And I see The WB will be airing the first Lord of the Rings movie over two nights in the November sweeps. And you have to admire Levin's newly developed sense of irony in The WB press release:

"The films share so many elements with our brand - youthful, fantasy entertainment with a strong dose of empowerment - and will enable us to create event programming that can platform important series for us."

Simon | March 06, 03:14 CET

He's some piece of work, that Levin.

Caroline | March 06, 03:24 CET

Levin's a tool.

Haunt | March 06, 03:25 CET

Probably bogus but no time to let up on the pressure. It has happened before. Not often but.....and yes, Levin is a tool....and a suit....

NOLA64 | March 06, 03:34 CET

saw this on buffy.nu earlier today...........probably not true

norman | March 06, 03:37 CET

Yeah, probably bunk. But hope springs eternal, and all that.
Hope Allyson doesn't see this! But at least she notes some creds, whereas this 'flukie' dude.....who knows??

Rogue Slayer | March 06, 03:39 CET

How many shows, have actually been cancelled, then had the network change their mind.
The only ones I can think of are: Just Shoot Me; Becker (several times in one season); Roswell;.....ummm, wasn't Seinfeld cancelled during season 1. Of course there's the amazing unexpected resurrection of Family Guy. How great would it be to have Angel be brought back, it's loads better than other shows that have been revived.

Ghost Spike | March 06, 03:39 CET

I heard on this one forum that quoted this other forum that had someone who posted a lot to this other forum that since he posts a lot to all of the other forums....

Sorry, but I call shenanigans.

prufrock | March 06, 03:44 CET

I found the original post in question: 'BIG NEWS'

forcorreo | March 06, 04:14 CET

Yea...doesn't make much sense...If you read his reasoning it sounds like "fanboy babble" to me especially considereing that the WB doesn't receive DVD revenue...I think his information is spurious...

Simpleba | March 06, 04:35 CET

As I posted at COA under that thread ..... I'm full of cynical hope at this point.

With that said I could see Levin do an about face on Angel, for one he has already created more free publicity for the WB by cancelling the show then they ever got while it was running this season and the WB is in bad need of press, even bad press since it is tanking big time in the overalls for TW.
Two, so far since the announcement of Angel's cancellation 2 of the drama pilots the WB was concidering for the fall have had to push back production due to scheduling conflicts and production problems pushing them beyond the fall time frame and into mid-season. This is a blow to the WB line up especially since one was Global Frequency - the action-adventure drama based on the comic book and the one I think more than DS was the replacement for Angel in the line-up.
Three, I think with people focusing some of their postcard to affiliates and putting pressure on them - I think Levin is feeling the pressure from all sides and Tribune in particular with a 22% share can apply pressure to the netlet's CEO since his company had a 10% lodd in revenues last year. One rule in Hollywood don't piss off the stockholders - just ask Eisner about that one. :)

RavenU | March 06, 04:38 CET

Ghost Spike - shows have been being canceled and then brought back since the 60's - Star Trek being one of the first ones that comes to mind. The list by now is over a mile long I think in 8pt print even :)

Just off the top of my head shows the were canceled then renewed - Law & Order, Homicide, Hill Street Blues, St Elsewhere, Alien Nation, Sliders, Boston Public, Sabrina the Teenage Witch, this past season Boomtown (all though killed 2 weeks into it's return due to ratings), just to name a few and soon to be Firefly (ok I can hope can't I - we get a movie and then a series).

[ edited by RavenU on 2004-03-06 02:46 ]

RavenU | March 06, 04:41 CET

I can see why The WB would revert their decision and renew Angel for another season... and god knows it would help in ratings and press and whatnot, for not only the show but for the network as a whole

I'd be pleased if they swallowed their pride and realised that Angel is the one damn good consistent show they have on that network and they should be paying as much as they can to keep it

edit - another possible reason for bringing the show back could be the Firefly movie? More free press. It's a long shot, but everyone little bit helps

[ edited by aapac on 2004-03-06 02:45 ]

aapac | March 06, 04:42 CET

I'm not going to let myself believe this report for one second, mainly because I don't want any false hope and it sounds like it was written by a 12 year old. Think of what a great pitch the WB would have had if they had kept Angel and paired it up on a night with Dark Shadows. They could have had "Wednesday Nights - The Undead Walk The Earth" or something plastered on buses and benches. And I'm sure many of us Angel fans would have checked out Dark Shadows if it aired right after our favorite show. But now...screw em.

MindPieces | March 06, 04:55 CET

I really hope this is true. Hopefully (no pun intended), it's not of those, "You've got no hope and Bob Hope" instances.

But, the $64,000 question is whether or not the WB is smart enough to renew Angel.

[ edited by kerribear on 2004-03-06 03:12 ]

kerribear | March 06, 05:00 CET

I hope Allyson does see this because I'd love to hear her input. She proved to me she definitely has a scoop on inside information and she'd be the one person who posts on this board who could verify whether or not this is just a rumor or true!

So Allyson, give us the scoop!!

But, it sounded off to me and that it most likely isn't true. Not saying people should give up, keep sending post cards and letters but let's not get too excited.

Firefly Flanatic | March 06, 05:09 CET

Oh yeah, RavenU, didn't you point out that it's possible that the WB would announce not renewing Angel because series finales usually get big bucks with advertisers and that it wouldn't surprise you if they then announced they were giving Angel another chance after the finale? So if there is an inkling of truth to this, wouldn't it make sense for them to not make an announcement or deal with Joss Whedon until after the final episode aired?

Firefly Flanatic | March 06, 05:11 CET

They could make the annoucement as soon as the week of the airing the last episode but already have a deal struck with a confidentiality clause invoked - it wouldn't be the first time that has happened - I think they pulled that little trick with St. Elsewhere. Also the deal is not struck with ME and the WB but with FOX and the WB, it is possible Fox could tell ME something was happening but not what until after the final episode airs, remember ME is not doing the negosiation, FOX is they actually hold the majority rights and strangely we have not really heard to much from them. Normally they close up shop when a series is canceled and ship it off their books and into the sydication division or home video market to re-coup the money they have invested, I have not read or even heard their position stated anywhere yet about Angel's future.

RavenU | March 06, 05:41 CET

Thanks RavenU! What you just said does make it sound even more like this could be happening behind the scenes if this post is accurate. And would it really surprise anyone that Jordan Levin would pull a backhanded stunt like that?

Firefly Flanatic | March 06, 05:44 CET

I don't think ME would let that kind of thing go on, especially since they know that fans are sending money and spending time on getting it renewed. Of course, MAYBE this is why they send Allyson to discourage us all, because they all know it's already a done deal and Angel will be back! Yes, I will go with that line of delusional thinking for a while!!!

Rogue Slayer | March 06, 06:01 CET

I would love and hope that are trying some insane publicity stunt with this, but logic tells me I cannot. Mentally, I need to prepare myself for the worst here, so in the event anything underhanded or miraculous happens I can be pleasantly surpirsed. I can't get my hopes up, they've already torn my heart out once with this stuff, I don't need that again!

CrazyMutha29 | March 06, 06:04 CET

Oh, dear.

I can't run and make a call for every rumor that hits the net. This one, especially, seems to have been publicized by saveangel.org.

Allyson | March 06, 06:07 CET

ME would definetely be on the deal if it were true... they would have to negotiate contracts and everything with all the cast and crew or otherwise they might all go off and get jobs, not knowing that the show actually was renewed

aapac | March 06, 06:16 CET

Yeah, it may be the case but I think that Oz guy who posted is full of crap and just playing around. I mean, "98.6 % accurate"--does he have a formula for that calculation?? It's oddly coincidental that 98.6 is also the average human body temperature. I think the guy is f***ing around with us. There is apparently someone else on that board who posts as "the great and powerful oz" and warned people not to get them confused. It may be that he is the regular poster.

I do hope, of course, that this does indeed happen, I just don't trust this particular source.

marmoset | March 06, 06:36 CET

aapac - the contracts for the cast for season 6 with ME had been signed before the cancelation news came down - ME kinda hedges their bets early.

RavenU | March 06, 06:48 CET

Thanks Allyson, definitely sounds like just another rumor. I guess if you did call them everytime you heard a rumor they'd change their numbers and pretend they didn't know you after awhile!!

Firefly Flanatic | March 06, 07:09 CET

LOL Simon - your right a bizarre sence of irony....
"The WB made a huge bet on this franchise a couple of years back and that has paid off in a way we never dreamed," said Mr. Levin. "The films share so many elements with our brand - youthful, fantasy entertainment with a strong dose of empowerment - and will enable us to create event programming that can platform important series for us."

Yeah concidering they already had this with Angel and then they shoved it off the platform - irony they name is Levin :P

RavenU | March 06, 07:46 CET

Actually, Allyson, if you'd note the rumor comes from the City of Angel forums, and was merely reposted on the SaveAngel site by a woman who titled it "Big News (but probably a wild rumor)" and repeatedly wrote "I think its not true... seriously, I do not know how reliable this is," and, "So take it with a grain of salt. "

It was re-reported by Buffy.nu.

So if anyone should be considered "publicizing" it, then it would be that site.

Not all things evil come from SaveAngel :)

Whedonage | March 06, 07:48 CET

This seems a cruel joke. Someone having fun playing with fans' hopes.

phlebotinin | March 06, 08:25 CET

I figure it's a hoax, but I will say this.

We may lose our show, but we are winning in some ways.

The critics are with the fans. Just today the Arizona Republic paper said this:

What's going on at WB? Once the hip home of Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Dawson's Creek (before the former skipped to UPN and the latter became a punch line), it almost always at least developed a few interesting shows. Now it's dumping Angel. When One Tree Hill is your hallmark of hipness, you've got troubles.

And The Help is no help at all.

This is just another to add on top of the mound of angry critics who have made fun of the WB's choices and wondered at how they could cancel the show that was their gem in a pile of crap.

Add this to the fact that after the cancellation news, we hear that Joss Whedon is going to be doing his very own motion picture. Levin again looks like an ass. He could have taken advantage of the free press when Joss Whedon's movie is made. (You know, JOss Whedon, who produces/writes for the show ANGEL) If the movie does worth anything, then people would want to investigate his little show--if it was on the air of course, and not CANCELLED.

Then there are the fans. People are really taking notice of our response, see the comedy crap that the WB have on, notice the ratings aren't as bad as some crappy shows that HAVEN'T been cancelled, and wonder what kind of drugs these PTB are taking...

So yeah, we kinda win, even if we lose.

If you can afford it, keep sending those post cards to the WB and FOX.

[ edited by twiggy on 2004-03-06 15:33 ]

twiggy | March 06, 09:49 CET

I'm just going to have to take everyone's word that the rest of the WB's lineup is crap. I wouldn't know ... I don't (and will not) watch any of their other shows.

Scott | March 06, 11:20 CET

SaveAngel: So, are you with SaveAngel? How much money have you collected? What are these "community" efforts to which you plan to contribute these donations? I mean, hell, I'm out of pocket about a grand on the party I threw and that got great press, so do I qualify for some of it?

Allyson | March 06, 13:10 CET

Allyson: Yes, and thank you for your questions. Please take a look at bottom of the page, for links to a complete list of expenditures and contributors, posted earlier in the week. I believe that we're providing more than complete depth of disclosure. We are currently helping fund the "Give Blood for ANGEL" blood drives around the country, and will be assisting with costs on the LA Rally. I'd be pleased to present your request to the Strategy Board for consideration. You'll note, however, that we don't quite have the resources to do much at this time. BTW, I deeply admire the work you've done on the wonderful W&H Revue and hope to read of one going on next year, too. If you have any additional questions, please feel free to write directly.

Whedonage | March 06, 15:18 CET

Very classy response, SaveAngel. Kudos. And thank you for what has been a massively publicized and successful campaign. It will have effects, we just don't know what yet. Thank you.

demonica | March 06, 17:47 CET

That's still the core of my belief today. As I had written previously, a full page in Variety is pure glamour, with the hope you can generate media attention to make it worth the high cost. Since then, we've seen one "Save Our Show"-type campaign for Ed fail to make much impact on that series' fate with the purchase of a Variety full-page. In the end, I believe the way to change the minds of networks is with visible, impressive support from the audience through grassroots-type efforts.

SaveAngel: Why do you need to fund a blood drive? Around WHICH country?

See, having actually DONE blood drives, I know that in the US, one only has to call the Red Cross and say, "I want to do a blood drive." And the Red Cross takes care of the rest. If one wants to publicize the blood drive, one calls their local WB Affiliate and local newspaper, and issue a press release about the drive. The affiliate has Angel posters to donate.

What does this cost? NOTHING. Been there, done that.

Who, exactly, is your show contact? Do you have one? A campaign to Save Angel should have a contact at Angel.

Server costs? My server costs $149 per year. I run DavidFury.net off of it, the Wolfram & Hart Annual Revue ran off of it, and some Wonderfalls street teaming runs off of it. Along with 4 busy email boxes. The WB sent a notice about the Revue to all 91,000 of its subscribers. I think, probably, my server is more busy.


Hm. Firefly: Immediate Assistance has raised about $14,000 in its existence, with full accounting. The Browncoat drives in which fans collected winter coats for the homeless cost nothing from campaign coffers. A simple post to the message boards asking for team leaders to spend a bit of time papering cars in lots asking the public to donate coats at a specific place on a specific date. No one asked for the three dollars in copying fees to be reimbursed.

They recently raised $7000 to donate DVDs to the troops at home and overseas. Only overhead charge? Paypal's cut of the money. Press releases are in partnership with the military and Mutant Enemy, so the cost to the fans for press? Nothing.

Watch Firefly Parties were coordinated around the country, via the message boards (not off our server, but actually going out into the fandom and talking to the fans. The fans running the parties each got a Firefly t-shirt, Nathan Fillion's recipe for seven layer dip (i love that), and an autographed glossy from Nathan. The cost of mailing, the t-shirts, and the cost of mailing copies of the show for review was about $500.00

Almost $2000 of the money collected came from an eBay auction of my collection of Firefly stuff (three signed scripts and a t-shirt).

That's grassroots.

And the thing that you fail to consider is that Angel isn't going to garner more than 4 million viewers. The shot the show has (I don't believe there is a shot, and neither do the producers) is the WB changing its mind. Which means that SavingAngel, in appealing to the network, is doing the smartest thing by purchasing advertising that appeals to the network, the industry execs.

If there's a crack in the window, that's where it is. The WB, the local affiliates, and the news is aware of the efforts put forth by the fans.

How are you funding the Rally? Did you buy them the permit?

Allyson | March 07, 00:30 CET

Wait...is this all happening in Europe? These rallies and the blood drives... is this all in Europe?

If so, why would the WB care what's happening in Europe? They get nary a cent from overseas broadcast.

Allyson | March 07, 00:46 CET

Allyson: I think if you take a moment to look at the site, you would have the answers to your questions.

I appreciate and respect all the wonderful things you've done previously. But just because you've done them a certain way, I hope you don't believe that others can't do similar things, in a different way. No one is implying that you aren't a capable organizer and fundraiser. Forgive me for saying so, but your messages come off rather emotional, as though I had personally offended you in some fashion -- even though we have never spoken before.

But I do wonder why you make assumptions about who I am and what SaveAngel.org is about. I spent the last 30 years in the US. I worked on Capitol Hill, and in entertainment. I've been at start-ups and with non-profits. I've taught classes on trading stocks and workshops on building web sites for underprivileged communities. I'm well-familiar with how things are done in all manner of organizations, public and private, in the States.

No one is denying your dedication and drive; would you deny that anyone else could be likewise dedicated, just because you hadn't met them before?

I welcome all your comments and suggestions; if you think there are some ways that we could be improving what we're doing, or something we're not doing right, feel free to write or post at SaveAngel.. But I would ask that you please dial down the accusatory tone. It's just not a productive way to communicate.

Whedonage | March 07, 04:11 CET

I have this unrealistic ideal of Whedonesque.com being independent and unaffiliated and completely outside of any factions in fandom - just like I run my other sites. These last few weeks that's kind of gone down the drain and it's pissing me off.

I'm not a player on any other board, I don't know anyone in M.E., I have no contacts, I don't campaign and I don't want to get caught up in flame wars. I just want to run a collaborative weblog with links to news about cool Buffy and Angel stuff with hopefully no slant towards any particular actor, group or demon, and with a wide appeal including the more 'general' viewers.

Can we stop having this debate here? It is a little off topic. I would appreciate it if this kind of talk is done via e-mail and not on my site. Thanks.

Caroline | March 07, 05:14 CET

Edited re: Prolific's request. I'm taking it to BronzeBeta.com

[ edited by Allyson on 2004-03-07 03:26 ]

Allyson | March 07, 05:25 CET

Prolific: I agree; neither the right place, or right topic for such a discussion. consider it closed.

Whedonage | March 07, 05:45 CET

Ok, firstly I REALLY hope there is more to this than it just being a rumour! And secondly, what the heck is a blood drive?? Also, profilic, whats wrong?? What are we not supposed to debate??

Joss rules! | March 07, 16:20 CET