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October 02 2013

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. episode 2 preliminary ratings. They've dropped down to a 3.1 in the 18-49 demo (compared to 4.7 last week).

Those are still good ratings though, correct?

[ edited by DanielJay92 on 2013-10-02 16:30 ]
Can someone please explain what the ratings mean, or provide a link? I know that higher is better, but I have no idea what the number actually means...

EDIT: never mind, there was a link in the article: http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2013/08/27/whats-a-tv-rating-and-who-is-it-dating-2013-14-edition/199735/

[ edited by Ragondux on 2013-10-02 16:37 ]
EW has a fuller story (contains casting spoilers if you didn't watch last night).
I frankly just dont want it cancelled. After that, the more viewers the merrier, but im not specially worried. Hope it does not continue to drop.
Put it this way, anything over 3.0 in 18-49 in Broadcast nowadays is a TV Hit. It's starting to become anything in the high 2's. So SHIELD is fine. The fall was expected, it had a big launch from publicity. The question is always where it levels out.

[ edited by gossi on 2013-10-02 16:47 ]
According to EW, it's "still utterly triumphant for a 8 p.m.".

Also worth noting that with DVR, online streaming, and the repeat airing last week, they nearly doubled their viewership from the initial airing:
'Agents of SHIELD': How many people have watched that pilot so far?


Last night was also the departure of Cote de Pablo from NCIS, wasn't it? I'm sure that would have had an effect on things.

[ edited by JMaloney on 2013-10-02 16:50 ]
I haven't seen the overnights yet but the early market data a few hours ago suggest NCIS had a boost. (Or in the overnights, not so much).

[ edited by gossi on 2013-10-02 17:02 ]
Looks like The Voice and NCIS both dropped 6% from last week: Tuesday Ratings
Only 8.4 million watched it? That's the worst news ever. Wait, it's actually quite good.
That's an utterly massive drop.

Yes, it's still a good number on its own, but a new show that loses 35% of its audience in episode two generally doesn't stabilize quickly.

NCIS stayed flat with last week.

[ edited by The Dark Shape on 2013-10-02 17:05 ]
Expected drop against a major NCIS episode and also The Voice. No biggi. No reason for Picnic.
I'm used to comic book numbers. As "second-issue drops" go, this is nothing remarkable.

But seriously, the pilot numbers were always going to be inflated by people just curious to see how the movie translated to TV. I think we're still good.

Is there going to be another encore showing? That Special Surprise might lure quite a few people back now that the word's out.
This brings to mind how Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles performed.

Premiere (inflated by NFL playoff game):

18.19 million viewers / 7.6 Demo

Episode Two:

10.07 million viewers / 4.3 Demo

Episode Three:

8.65 million viewers / 3.6 Demo

TSCC was pulling in good numbers at the time but everyone who follows ratings knew that it was tumbling off a cliff. Next week will tell the tale. If S.H.I.E.L.D. holds steady-ish it's fine. If it suffers another big drop, it's in free fall.

Another comparison show that opened to huge ratings and then quickly ran out of steam is V. That show opened to a 5.0 demo, then fell to a 3.7, then to a 3.1 in week three.

[ edited by The Dark Shape on 2013-10-02 17:45 ]
Dark Shape: though I was not happy with the second episode, I don't agree that it would be in free fall even if it still lost more viewers. At nearly 9 million viewers for ep 2, it is holding up well. The drop was expected; it is not going to be everyone's cup of tea, and the 7PM slot (for me, CST) means it has to be family friendly, which is slightly limiting.
I didn't see the second episode so I can't really make any comments about quality. But as a numbers guy, even though on the surface 8.4m viewers and a 3.1 is good, that is not a healthy drop and portends a bumpy ride up ahead.
SHIELD is always gonna lose to The Voice. As would anything else that goes up against it. Singing competition shows are second only to NFL football as 18-49 audience crack.

Last night's NCIS was Cote de Pablo's farewell episode, which certainly boosted its numbers. Her departure might cost the show somewhat in the ratings now.

I still think putting this in the 8 PM hour was a questionable decision.
The Dark Shape, while I agree the drop over 20% isn't ideal, I'm not sure I'd compare it to TSCC or V just yet.

8PM is fine by me as ultimately it's a family show they wanted. If I was ABC I'd be far more concerned by Lucky 7 right now (it's 2nd episode is below Dollhouse's lowest number).
I'd be less worried about the ratings drop if the first two episodes were higher quality, or at least more entertaining. I just don't see many people tuning in to this on a weekly basis if things don't pick up.
I like the writing, I like the characters, but I do have to admit that if they want this show to fit well within a superhero/comic book universe (and get ratings indicative of that), they're going to have to come up with better macguffins than "glowy explodey thing embedded in wall" and better villains than a bunch of easily-beaten mooks in camo.
The Dark Shape, while I agree the drop over 20% isn't ideal, I'm not sure I'd compare it to TSCC or V just yet.


They were simply the two examples that came to mind. Still, all of my doom-mongering could be shown to be awfully silly next week. If S.H.I.E.L.D. stays above a 3.0 I'd call it a good number. I'd be concerned if it drops below a 2.8.

I'm not sure I understand the concern with an 8 p.m. slot. How I Met Your Mother has a lot of success. Doesn't The Big Bang Theory air at 8? Those are comedies, sure, but they skew young like S.H.I.E.L.D. does. And Glee consistently pulled 4.0+ demos in that timeslot when people gave a damn about it.

[ edited by The Dark Shape on 2013-10-02 18:23 ]
Something I hadn't realised - apparently baseball aired at 8PM. Which sounds like fan excuse bingo, but SHIELD skewed male for episode 1.

Also The Voice is gone at 8PM next week - they move to 1 hour shows at 9PM. Instead, SHIELD is against The Biggest Loser.
People, these ratings are fine. You can all picnic if the average 18-49 is below a 2 after 10 episodes. Until then everything is shiny. Seriously, the doom and gloom around here when receiving good news is oppressive.
Something I hadn't realised - apparently baseball aired at 8PM. Which sounds like fan excuse bingo, but SHIELD skewed male for episode 1.


Baseball's not much of a ratings factor in the U.S. If we're complaining about the timeslot, though, I think it'd be smarter to put AGENTS OF S.H.I.E.L.D. up against NCIS: LA than the mothership.

People, these ratings are fine. You can all picnic if the average 18-49 is below a 2 after 10 episodes. Until then everything is shiny. Seriously, the doom and gloom around here when receiving good news is oppressive.


I'm totally about to vent, IrrationaliTV. Just know this is not only about you, but comments I've seen quite a lot of.

This is not good news. It dropped 35% from its premiere. By any gauge we have, that's troubling. Whenever I post numbers on any medium -- TV, movies, etc. -- there's inevitably 'that guy' telling me to shut up and that I don't know what I'm talking about and the numbers are great, etc.

MAN OF STEEL was a perfect example. "Um, its dailies are troubling..." "SHUT UP, it made $125m and it's totally a lock for $400m!" "Um, I don't think MAN OF STEEL is going to hit $300m..." "YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, DARK SHAPE, THE MOVIE WAS GREAT AND THE NUMBERS ARE GREAT."

Final tally: $291m.

Basically, I'm not fanboying. When I look at numbers I take myself out of it completely as well as how I want a show (or movie) to perform. And shedding a third of your audience week-to-week (more if you factor in the Thursday repeat of the pilot) is, at the very least, troubling.
Arent this just overnight? Couldnt this improve significantly once we get all the vierws in, DVR and such, or are this ones the only or the most important?

Genuinly asking here, im a complete ratings profane.

[ edited by Darkness on 2013-10-02 19:07 ]
Overnights are the most important, as most people fast forward the adverts on DVR - and adverts (and international sales) are the things which pay the bills.
I'd prefer if people didn't vent here. This isn't a soapbox.
Let's hope that all those lost viewers were people who turned in expecting the show to be Avengers The Series
Anybody know what the average drop-off is in audience between a series premiere and second episode?
Those numbers are not good. Hopefully it levels out quickly.
Confused. The premiere basically over-performed, no? So fretting over the week two percentage drop-off is basically irrelevant, no? As stated, it's a matter of where it levels off. If something does way better at launch than expectations, the leveling off inherently can seem more precipitous by comparison and yet still be essentially useless information.
Yes, the premiere had huge marketing and performed above and beyond; I'm not at all worried at this point. We'll see how eps 3 and 4 fair, but in the meantime, less picnic would be appropriate. It had better competition this week and for its slot is performing... must avoid pun... marvelously! Crap, punned! The later numbers will be more telling than the overnights given it had some event type competition this week due to NCIS.
Welcome to Level 3.1 in 18-49.

Sorry, this thread was really dark and I couldn’t help myself.

(I think there’s a bulb out.)
These are still great numbers compared to Dollhouse, so I'm not complaining :)

And the show will certainly improve over time (as every Joss Whedon show does if given the chance), so maybe the ratings will improve after good word of mouth.
and for its slot is performing... must avoid pun... marvelously!


Oh the pain.
Angel started off rocky and then turned into gold. We can only hope for the same.
I'm not surprised the ratings went down. Joss shows don't tend to get really good until a few episodes in ("Angel", "Hero", "Man on the Street", etc).
Yeah i think there's some premature freaking out. I think they're still unrolling story and thats not without a few bumps along the way. I'm excited about the series still even if I think an episode is weak.
Over on TvByTheNumbers they have posted the final numbers, and the ratings have been adjusted two tenths up to 3.3, 8.66 million viewers. Less steep a drop, then.
3.3 is still a big drop, but this looks much nicer. :)
If you enjoyed the Avengers movie, it might take some getting used to the tv show. Some viewers could be having this problem. The budgetary differences are quite noticeable, and without the cameos from Maria Hill and Nick Fury, I'd find it hard to believe the show and movies take place in the same shared universe.

[ edited by watcherinthewoods on 2013-10-02 22:02 ]
It's so obviously going to be canceled that I hear Joss has skipped directly to making a movie set in the same world!
A showrunner on a TV series = a director on a film.

Honestly, I question how much of a Joss Whedon show Agents of SHIELD is as opposed to a Jed/Maurissa show, who literally have no experience running a show, or much of one writing for a show.

So, I'm not as certain that the quality will improve over time as compared with a Joss Whedon-run show.

[ edited by pollaxt on 2013-10-02 22:50 ]
They already established that he would plan it, read all the scripts, give notes. Basically, expect something like Angel; not everyday on set like Buffy, but overseeing everything. At least thats how Maurissa and Jed described the whole thing; its also easier that he put his brother and sister in law in charge; they are talented, yes, but there is also a confidence, a mutual knowledge and comunication ease that makes the whole process easier for everybody.

[ edited by Darkness on 2013-10-02 23:00 ]
Jed/Maurissa show, who literally have no experience running a show, or much of one writing for a show.


I think being writers, co-producers and story-editors on Spartacus, Dollhouse and Drop Dead Diva may in some small way give them experience of running a show. Also there's Jeff Bell on board too.
Honestly, I question how much of a Joss Whedon show Agents of SHIELD is as opposed to a Jed/Maurissa show, who literally have no experience running a show, or much of one writing for a show.


They wrote a lot for Dollhouse. They were pretty involved beyond the writing too. They've written for at least two other shows. And if I'm not mistaken Joss mentioned in an interview that he asked them for some input on a draft of The Avengers. I think if anything has become an indispensable skill as Joss's career has become blockbuster, it's being able to delegate and knowing who can be trusted with that.
And doctor Horrible.
Joss posted himself here on Whedonesque that J-Mo wrote a good portion of the carrier fight in The Avengers. And, you know, they basically show ran Dollhouse season 2. They got skills.
Ah, that's what I was thinking of, that comment. I can never remember where I have read things, and Google doesn't always help.

There was stuff in The Avengers that wasn't the helicarrier fight? :)
I was sad when I heard about the ratings drop. I hope it stabilizes or picks back up!
I haven't seen the second episode, but I get the impression that nowadays genre fans expect serialised storytelling as opposed to standalone episodes, and people who like procedurals might be turned off by the genre elements. Is it possible that's a factor in losing viewers?

Joss's hybrid style often starts off looking like a series of standalones before the major arcs kick in, especially since his trade-mark character development and continuity are things people now take for granted whatever the format. Funny how TV expectations have changed so much since he started there, especially since a lot of the change is probably due to him.
Tuesday's Finals are in, though we still have DVR+3 numbers to look forward:

NCIS (8:00) - CBS
19.978 million viewers, #1; 4.470 million adults 18-49 (3.5 rating), #2

NCIS: Los Angeles (9:00) - CBS
15.086 million viewers, #2; 3.416 million adults 18-49 (2.7 rating), #4

The Voice (8:00, 120 Minutes) - NBC
14.539 million viewers, #3; 5.702 million adults 18-49 (4.5 rating), #1

Person of Interest (10:00) - CBS
12.347 million viewers, #4; 2.604 million adults 18-49 (2.1 rating), #8

Chicago Fire (10:00) - NBC
8.743 million viewers, #5; 3.353 million adults 18-49 (2.6 rating), #5

Marvel's Agents of SHIELD (8:00) - ABC
8.662 million viewers, #6; 4.140 million adults 18-49 (3.3 rating), #3


In the end, it still ranked 6th overall on primetime last night, and was 3rd best rated show. Still very good. No reason to picnic yet.
I think being writers, co-producers and story-editors on Spartacus....

Just wanted to repeat: SPARTACUS! Wonderful writing on that show. Admittedly, not exactly a primetime family show, but gossi's right: skills.
Would just like to point to the fact that Jed and Mo are the writers for two of the finest episodes of Dollhouse - S2's Belonging and Epitaph One.
And, um... well, okay, there *was* Stage Fright... but we're going to forget about that. Just sit back in this chair here and it'll all go away. I promise.
This show is as close to a 100% prediction it will be picked for S2 as any show on TV right now. I am not worried.
I'm not going to say that I am loving the show yet (it's fun and I'll no doubt keep watching unless that stops,) nor will I say I am not disappointed that this isn't a true Joss Whedon show, but there is no doubt that Jed, Mo and crew don't have the chops. I would give any of their work a go.

As for numbers, I have no doubt that this will be reaching a season 2. It was all but guaranteed when it was first announced. I wouldn't be surprised if they stayed steady if they kept doing what they are doing, but I am sure they have more up their sleeves to entice the audience.

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