This site will work and look better in a browser that supports web standards, but it is accessible to any browser or Internet device.

Whedonesque - a community weblog about Joss Whedon
"Because, sir, to be blunt, the last time you became complacent about your existence turned out rather badly."
11981 members | you are not logged in | 24 May 2018


October 07 2002

(SPOILER) Great post at the Cross and Stake connecting and comparing Angel and Buffy . This'll run off that board soon, so if you want to read it, be quick.

To recap the post:

- The writer thinks Joss is employing an Escher-esque view of the world, showing similar themes in both shows from different perspectives.

- He (or she) compares Willow/Giles and Wes/Justine. Both Willow and Wes struggle don't know if the others will take them back. Giles encourages, Justine fans the flame. Wesley says: "everything changes” and we all get what we deserve". Giles says: "We are who we are, no matter how we seem to change."

- Angel and Spike both dream/hallucinate about killing the ones they love. Who is sending them these images?

- Halfrek says something "older than the old ones" is rising. Lilah speaks of "this little project that the senior partners have been working on, oh, since the beginning of time".

- Angel talks about what being a champion means. Buffy asks Spike "When did you become a champion of the people?"

To further confuse things, or perhaps help bring Angel's 'Escher' perspective of confusion about the world more into focus, when he first begins coming to after Wes saves him from the drink, Angel looks up at Wes and says, "I should have killed you." He doesn't say this like he's going to now. He says this as if it's a glimmer of recognition. This is what leads Angel's allowing his son to not face judgment. He's purposefully giving Connor the same choice he gave Wesley; to do wrong or right by him.

He was going to kill Wes. Wes did wrong by Angel. Angel felt righteousness in retaliating by attempting to smother Wes in the hospital bed with the pillow. However, because his friends stopped him, Angel did not kill Wes. Wes was the only one with the stoutness of heart and intellect to figure out what Connor had done to Angel. Wes was the only one to save his sorry butt. He was the only one to offer his own blood when Angel needed human blood to survive. Had Angel killed Wes mere days before, Angel would have inadvertently signed his own fate to the ocean. However, since Angel let Wes live, Angel now stands free.

To compare this to Buffy, When Spike starts his speech at the end of "Beneath You" he points out to her "I dreamed of killing you." It wasn't a threat. It was a statement of fact. Again, with a glimmer of slow recognition. Spike should have killed Buffy several times before since season two, but he never has, and having never killed her has placed him in his present position of loving her. Had Spike killed Buffy in season two that night in the high school, his life would be dramatically different than it is now. Just like when Angel spared Wes' life. Of course, Spike didn't so much spare Buffy as just be incompetent at killing her, but still.. there are more comparisons between the two shows than can easily be diregarded as coincidence. Whedon's writing staff are basically voicing the same sentiments and illustrating the same moral ambiguities of life in differing ways. Variations on a theme.
It would make sense, especially if this is the last season of BtVS as we now know it---"Slayer" Chronicles would meld quite nicely with AtS.

This thread has been closed for new comments.

You need to log in to be able to post comments.
About membership.

joss speaks back home back home back home back home back home