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November 13 2013

Ratings for Agents of SHIELD episode 1.07 "The Hub". Find out how last night's episode did.

And it keeps going down. Season low. Safe to say it's not a hit anymore...
I think it is officially safe to worry now.
It's not "safe to worry" it's still performing where it needs to. See Weekly Ratings Report, DVR, Live Viewing, Men & Does it Even Matter?
No need to worry right now. ABC is in bad shape. I think it's safe for at least one more season.

A better question is: will anybody care?

@Beth, come on, that's all spin from one of the executive producers. Nobody is going to trash their shows ratings.
You might see it as spin but that doesn't stop it from being the truth. The fact is, ABC is not going to cancel this show any time soon.
Is there an objective website on understanding ratings - as they are today?

It seems like everything is changing so fast that anyone can make mediocre ratings sound really bad or really good. Perhaps, ratings are simply no longer the most accurate test for a successful show?

I'm so confused. I like this show but it's taken time for me to get attached. I don't want to worry but should we? Do we need to get twitter moving on Tuesdays for the show? We have the power if we could decide on a hash tag.

I honestly don't believe the show is in any danger.
So no picnic then? But Simmons already made the sandwiches and I was looking forward to taste them. I hear from Steve, that they are better than Tony's shawarma. :)
hann23 - the answer is you take the really bad and add the really good and come out nicely in the middle! Despite what some may call terrible ratings, ABC and Marvel are happy with the show and they have much bigger plans beyond it. They are looking at a bigger picture and S.H.I.E.L.D. still fits nicely within what they are wanting to do in the whole Marvel universe, Movies, TV and now Netflix. Some may say the article I linked is "all spin" by the EPs but the fact is, ABC said many months before S.H.I.E.L.D. went to air that they wanted a show that would do well in an area they have failed miserably in in the past - the young male demographic and THAT is exactly what they are getting with S.H.I.E.L.D. and that can't be disputed.
I really hope it's true that we don't have to worry... Because I really can't take another show from Joss going down the tube, while other shows that are complete rubbish remain on the air. It's a really depressing look at the state of society.
I'm sure the ratings will hit a floor soon and stabilize, provided we don't get a run of really terrible episodes. But I'm pretty sure that floor is much lower than the show's corporate masters were expecting or hoping.

If it drops below a 2.0 rating, I think we'll see action taken. Maybe a timeslot change, maybe a personnel change, maybe an uptick in stunt casting. Maybe a lot more Skye in her lingerie and Ward with his shirt off. Who knows?

Anyone that says this show is anything other than a disappointment is deluding themselves. The "fact" is that ABC also said they were expecting SHIELD to be a four quadrant hit.

No matter what people say, the real fact is that the show keeps dropping. I am not saying people should be worried. As of now, they really shouldn't. But I don't believe for a second Marvel and ABC are happy with it.

Edit: @AndrewCrossett And would Skye in her lingerie be such a bad thing? =P

[ edited by Ricardo Leal on 2013-11-13 19:18 ]
I'm curious about finals. A .3 demo drop is way higher than I expected.


Looking at the hourlies I don't expect S.H.I.E.L.D. to get a finals bump. It lost 750k viewers at 8:30 and dropped from a 2.2 to a 2.1.

[ edited by The Dark Shape on 2013-11-13 19:25 ]
Yeah. Be interesting to see the finals.
The drop just throws me. Last week's episode was well-received and THOR: THE DARK WORLD opening should have put some new eyes on it.

If S.H.I.E.L.D. falls again next week after this large drop and with a "We're a sequel to the brand new movie!" episode, I don't know where the floor is.
Live S/D. One tiny itsy bitsy piece of a very big puzzle. Also, still a top 20 show so far this season I believe. Context is important! Picnickers will picnic though. Carry on. :)
As IrrantionaliTV notes, the live immediate numbers don't tell the whole story. I am by no means an expert in this department, but this story from a couple weeks back was heartening:
Live SD is still the biggest piece of that puzzle by a hefty margin.
IrrationaliTV - that's kind of what I've been saying. We can't base the rise and fall of a show purely on the 18-49 overnight ratings any more, there's a much bigger picture that needs to be taken into account, especially when it comes to this show.

Am I saying ABC thinks S.H.I.E.L.D.'s ratings are the best they can hope for? Of course not! But it is also far from the worst they could have had. They don't have to be getting the best overnight ratings in history in one single demo for them to be satisfied with where things are at.

It strikes me as a little odd that some here (and elsewhere) will be quick to attack someone (ABC primarily) for focusing exclusively on the positives where ratings are concerned yet it is perfectly ok to disregard ALL the positives and focus ONLY on the negatives?
I'm watching the show out of a sense of loyalty. It has really become a bore.
Short term:
-It has out performed any other show ABC had in that time slot since 2009.
-ABC's viewership in that time slot is more than double over what it had previously.
Long Term:
-ABC is trying to increase its appeal to the male 18 to 49 year-old demographic. SHIELD is the overall number 2 show in that category and number 1 on Tuesday.
-Marvel's & ABC's parent company, Disney, is trying very hard to grow the Marvel brand. Disney is focused long term. Look at how it has leveraged other properties, think movies like Snow White or Cinderella and how Disney has leveraged them outside of the theater. The value isn't what was brought in the box office. The value of SHIELD isn't just what ABC can make on ad revenue. It's also value of bringing in a missing key demographic to ABC. The value of establishing the Marvel brand on TV. Also the value of testing and experimenting on a lesser value Marvel property, before bringing a more valuable property to TV.

If it was just ABC making the renewal decision, it would be ok to worry.

[ edited by garyyager on 2013-11-13 20:16 ]
Rambaldi - As a fan of the show I thank you and I hope your loyalty pays off and you start to enjoy the show :)
From what I'm guessing ABC Studios and Marvel is getting for this show in international broadcast sales, they could give it to ABC Network for free. Seriously. The corporate synergies of this show are so compelling that it could be getting a 1.0 and still be in the black.
There's simply no way to see these numbers in a positive way. The pilot got a 4.7. We're down to 2.2 in 7 episodes. I went through Angel, Firefly and Dollhouse' cancellations, I'm not going to slowly watch another Joss show die. And it pains me so much to say that although I LOVE Agents of SHIELD, I'd rather stop watching now and see it as a limited series when it comes out on DVD than seeing this downward spiral.
Perseo, save yourself!
Perseo - there are many ways but you choose to ignore them. That is your choice of course but personally I think you're nuts to take that view when there's so much, as has been pointed out, to be positive about. I'm going to keep enjoying this show for the rest of this season into the next even if you choose to be left behind :)
Perseo, I just am trying to look at this as 22 episodes of a Whedon show. Whatever else I get will be a bonus. While I strongly suspect we'll see at least a 13 episode second season, I'm not going to let it worry me. Would I be happy if the ratings were better? Of course. Should I let it ruin my enjoyment of the show? No.
I think the lack of a statement from ABC about the male demos this week is telling. I was the first to tell myself that the show was just a happy incident riding on The Avengers' success, but I cannot not get emotionally invested in the characters, and as far as I'm concerned the show, ratings-wise, is heading for a mercy kill at the end of the season. That's why I'll catch it later. I just can't stand a repeat of Dollhouse.
It's not going to be cancelled, so no one should worry on that score, if it bottoms out here it will get renewed. However, a 2.2 is a disappointment coming less than 8 episodes after a 4.7 and after the big Marvel push off the last week. This wasn't supposed to be a "does well in male demos" show, it was meant to be a TV mega hit. It's steadily dropped almost every week so far so it hasn't hit bottom yet either. And those male demos ABC touts have been dropping away too.

Even ABC's press release headline trumpeted the "not doing well either" over SHIELD this week.
*not do well either comedies I meant and its just a very brief paragraph.
I think unless the ratings stabilize, there's going to be an increasing drumbeat from the board room. "The audience wants to see superheroes every week, so we need to make this a superhero show... big reveal! Skye's parents were supes and she's inherited their powers."

If they made a move like that, I imagine Joss and Jed and Maurissa would depart, since I don't think that's the story they want to tell. Such a change in direction could increase ratings, or cause the show to descend into complete suckitude, or both.

I hope it stabilizes and starts to rebuild its own audience, now that the looky-lou's who watched the premiere hoping to see Iron Man or Thor are gone.
Ouch. Thats a big drop coming off of last weeks very well recieved episode. And the half hours show a large number of people are switching off mid-episode. 2 seasons and done I'm thinking at this point.
I´ve decided not to panic at all. I´ll deal with whatever comes when it comes. It is a shame, tough. Joss seems to be a hard sell on tv even with marvel behind him.
Joss seems to be a hard sell on tv even with marvel behind him.

I firmly believe that if Joss's voice was more evident in the show, it would be much more successful.
Ouchies… I was hoping it was going stabilize at 2.5. 2.2 is kinda painful…
Sorry, AndrewCrosset, to disagree, but Josses voice cant be more evident. Its absolutely there, like always. At least for me.

[ edited by Darkness on 2013-11-13 22:47 ]
Hm. I can't hear it at all, except in the episode he wrote.
I'm with Andrew. There are some snarky lines, but this doesn't feel like Whedon. It feels like cookie-cutter network television.

Ask yourself: if this exact same series was airing with everything in place except Joss, Jed, and Maurissa's names, would you be watching it? Because I certainly wouldn't be.
Also, final numbers are out. No adjustment for AGENTS OF S.H.I.E.L.D.
I would watch this show even if Veena Sud (shudder) or DEK were running it. I actually like it. SHOCKING!
"If S.H.I.E.L.D. falls again next week after this large drop and with a "We're a sequel to the brand new movie!" episode, I don't know where the floor is."
The Dark Shape

Then, I'll worry.
Of course i would watch it. I stoped watching Dollhouse till i heard about episode 6 because i was bored. I respect people not liking it, but, with all due respect, and saying it wqith a smile on my face, dont make cheap excuses for those wo love it. ;)

I dont like his shows because Joss is behind them, i love Joss because he is behind his shows.
"@AndrewCrossett And would Skye in her lingerie be such a bad thing?" Ricardo Leal

My inner horndog says no, but my inner fan boy thinks the charactor-type should be wearin' granny pants & sports bras.

Which 'could' also be configured hot.
I don't hear Joss, mostly someone trying to sound like Joss and failing. Kinda like S9 in the comics.

And I don't necessarily want to hear the typical Joss voice in this show either. Less comedy, more intriguing mystery.
Many people said they didnt hear Joss at all in the Avengers; heck, some people (im talking in general, not about this forum) who loathe Joss Whedon but loved Avengers even got so far as to say that Avengers was good because it didnt feel whedony at all. To me, cross my heart, Avengers was as whedony as the most whedony Buffy ever.

Maybe there is something about Marvell-Joss some people have a problem with, at least out of the comics themselves. Not saying all or most people who dont enjoy Avengers or/and AOS comply with this reasoning but for some it might be a problem for some; after all "Avengers was nice, but it was just a pop corn blockbuster, not really worthy of Joss" wasnt at all that minor a complaint in people-count. It might be that the Joss/Marvel coupling isnt at all some peoples cup of tea. Yes, yes... Or that they were right. ;)

You can guess though were i stand, no? ;)

Just a tought, nothing more.

It does amuse me though, meaning nothing by it, but it is, from some point of view, quite the kind of thing that, whatever side you are on, does offer the chance for a slight chuckle, that some people in the web complain that it is too whedony, while other complain that is not whedony enough. :)

[ edited by Darkness on 2013-11-14 00:33 ]
If the rating continue to disappoint, some possible scenarios come to mind short of cancellation (which Disney ain't gonna do):

1. AoS goes on an unplanned hiatus for retooling.
2. Jed and Mo are quietly asked to step aside in favor of a more seasoned showrunner.
3. The success of Arrow is examined as closely as makes sense: a comic-based show (with superheroes!) that is an uncontested hit.

Either way, it would require Marvel to admit that the show is in trouble, and I don't see that happening.
That's why it would be interesting to have this show air minus Joss' name attached -- a lot of people bring their biases with them, sometimes subconsciously, sometimes blatantly.

I'm a fan of Jossness. I loved the Avengers and saw his mark all over it. It was fun, smart, exciting, and a great ride. I'm someone who DOESN'T see Joss in AoS, but rather someone sometimes trying to sound like Joss. It's not as tight as his other shows, the characters are thin and rely on quirks to define them more than actual character development, and the humor is often forced. Not to mention the lack of subverting cliches. To me, one of the best Joss moments ever was the first scene of BUFFY -- Darla, looking like she's about to be prey, instead turning out to be the predator. Joss' creations are littered with such moments. "Oh, I thought he was going THIS way, but instead he went THAT way! *mind blown*"

So far, for me, there's been no Darla moment, no kick-the-bad-guy-into-the-engine-moment, no surprises. This last episode even had the cliche gag of the one-sided conversation that ends with someone saying "I'm so glad we talked..." That wasn't fresh when Full House did it 20 years ago.

And now I'm in danger of ranting. I love Joss. I enjoyed the hell out of Avengers. The problem for me, is this show doesn't bring anything from either Joss or the Avengers into it. It's as if someone ABC exec said, "comic book nerds don't like Joss, so don't let it get too clever, people who like Joss don't like super heroes, so get rid of those, and the general public doesn't want to watch something with an extensive universe, so dumb it all down for anyone who hasn't seen the movies or read the comics."

What they advertised was a Marvel show brought to us by Whedons. What they've delivered is an average spy show with a couple of adorable characters and a couple of really annoying characters. I understand why the ratings are dropping.
I wonder, Darkness, if the issue of "too Whedon-like/not Whedon-like enough" is about who is saying the dialogue and when; I mean, I am thoroughly enjoying Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. but I can admit that certain bits of humour seem perfectly Whedony but allowed to come from the mouth of the wrong castmember at times. Maybe it's just me.

I'm not worried about the show personally, simply from the fact that ABC ordered the back 9 episodes and (pretty sure) renewed it. Its momentum has picked up and things seem to be coming to a head, though next week's episode seems to be a chance to flesh out Ward more if he's struggling to control rage issues from a wonky Asgardian artifact without an obvious sign of either Centipede or the elements of SHIELD that Captain America will face in Winter Soldier.

[ edited by BlueEyedBrigadier on 2013-11-15 05:05 ]
Whedony or not, Joss is not in charge of this show. He's busy with Avengers 2.

So let's stop pretending this is a "Joss Whedon Show". It's not.

And I really don't think it feels like Whedon. The pilot felt like Joss on a bad day. The rest of the show feels like NCIS.
Have you ever actually watched NCIS? I haven't seen a single episode of AOS that is even remotely as dumb as that show. Watch a few episodes and come back to watch AoS and see how much more impressed you'll be.

You guys are making a lot of generalizations with no basis in reality.
And I really don't think it feels like Whedon. The pilot felt like Joss on a bad day. The rest of the show feels like NCIS.

I actually don't get much in the way of Whedony* vibes from MAoS either. However - what I do get are massive, massive Human Target Season 1 vibes (and not just because of the McCreary factor) which I personally don't consider to be a bad thing since I LOVED that show. Unfortunately I think that the fate of that show made it pretty clear what happens in this day and age to shows that specialize in the quirky but mindless generic action genre...

* As in Joss Whedon - aka the only Whedon whose creative genius motivated me to seek out this site.

[ edited by brinderwalt on 2013-11-14 02:54 ]
The recent tone of this thread is raising some red flags for me at the moment. So consider this a warning to keep things respectful.
Ricardo Leal: Whedon was too busy with tree shows once... It feels to me as he is completely in charge. Delegating a lot, but it feels absolutely like one of his shows. To me at least. :)

[ edited by Darkness on 2013-11-14 05:34 ]
I wonder if they're faced with a decision to either go full NCIS mainstream affability or full Whedon quality cancelability. They probably don't see it that way.
This is the first ratings dip that seriously bothers me. There is no reason for it that I can see that is good for the long term prospects for the show. And just to make things really wonderful all this is happening during sweeps.

As I said in an earlier post that has seemingly disappeared it may be that the shows day and/or time gets shifted. The show is working out to be a procedural and its up against another procedural which is not the usual way of programming ime. We'll see.
figures, just when I'm starting to get attached to the characters... anyway, season 1 is a done deal, so there's that. Hopefully people who are not liking the show won't start actively rooting for cancellation. Already by the third or fourth episode I read a "I hope they cancel it so Joss can make something better (aka "something I enjoy more")" post, and that, besides being very shortsighted, is so very *not cool* toward those who enjoy the show.
Isn't there some studio wide politics too? MARVEL should be desperate not for this to be cancelled because it would be their first "failure". My guess is that if abc decide they don't want to run it any more they'll take it to Netflix that way they can say it didn't get "cancelled" and then the people who really want to watch it, albeit with less episodes, can.
There are 2 rather bad Hulk films out there that took the checkered flag as the first failures. I just wish that there was something that would explain the ratings drop. It really makes no sense.

[ edited by JDL on 2013-11-14 09:40 ]
The ratings thread always feels like the hangover from the fun we had from the night before.
Whedon was too busy with tree shows once... It feels to me as he is completely in charge. Delegating a lot, but it feels absolutely like one of his shows. To me at least. :)

@Darkness, Joss himself said he was not very involved with the show.

The ratings thread always feels like the hangover from the fun we had from the night before.

@Simon, If it's because of the ratings: do not worry. ABC is in BAD shape. As of now, worrying is pointless. If it's because other people - like me - are not liking it. I'm sorry. I don't want to rain on anyone's parade. I want to like this show. I do. I just don't think it's very good - yet.
SHIELD has a built in advantage being that it is itself an opportunity for cross-promotion for several really expensive movies, so the cost/benefit of keeping it on the air is not only the typical formula for any TV show, but also whatever benefit that ABC/Disney has quantified as a way to build interest in subsequent MCU films. It's playing with a little bit of house money in that regard. SHIELD's longevity may be tied to it hawking future Marvel flicks with as much as gusto as "Chuck" would tell you about a tasty Subway sandwich.
There are 2 rather bad Hulk films out there that took the checkered flag as the first failures.

I'll disagree with the second Hulk movie (w/Norton) being bad. It was a good movie, but it suffered from the reputation of the first one.

Also, the first Hulk (Bana) was not a Marvel Studios production.
Alias never had great ratings but ran for 5 seasons on ABC.
This is strange. I expected a slight bump in ratings, simply due to people seeing Loki 3 in the cinemas, and then remembering the TV show when they mentioned SHIELD on screen.
The movie-going public and the TV-watching public are not always the same, ragondux. I rarely go to movies, for example.
While not identical, they overlap. I'm sure a lot of the people who saw Loki 3 have TVs. On the other hand, it's possible that most of the Marvel fans are already watching the show, and that the ratings drop were due to non-fans leaving.

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