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December 11 2013

(SPOILER) Discuss the midseason finale of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.. It's titled "The Bridge" and was written by Shalisha Francis and directed by Holly Dale. J. August Richards returns as Mike Peterson.

Clearly JR is on the SHIELD team!
JAR always looked good in suits. ;)
I don't think anybody beats Captain America's time.
An actual suit. *head smack*
Nerding out moment (I miss fred)
Foreshadowing. Your guide to quality fiction!
yay, superhuman stuff!
I'm glad the cellist came up but wow, that conversation was not what I was hoping for.
What did they say about skye's parents? It sounds like they are keeping the truth from her?
"It sounds like they are keeping the truth from her?"

Squishy

It's operation "Lie to Skye" in here.
A SUPERSUIT! Yay.

"No Pressure."
Action sequences seem improved.
Ahh, the clairvoyant... ew.
Fight choreography is up a bit.
Skye gets a lot of flak as a character, but I think Chloe's one of the best actor's on the show.
Hydra behind this?
Um, did anyone elses TV go on the fritz when May said, "YOu want to know what the truth is?" That was WEIRD.
Niiiice, politics dig followed by a gut punch. Ouch.
Agent May is clearly emotionally off-balance this episode.
"Hydra behind this?"

Squishy

If you need a Big Bad, They are both.
Hydra is the SHIELD nemesis, but maybe Marvel wants to keep them for the movies?
I'm not liking Mikes chances. :(
So maybe they'll inject Coulson with extremis? But I thought they needed Mike?
Pointless sacrifice cliche'. Not cool.
I feel like Raina is us in that final scene. TELL US COULSON.
Is Mike dead? Or is he just Marvel-dead?
I feel like this was an opportunity to grab some new fans by introducing something from the existing Marvel universe. This cliffhanger plays to the fans they already have of this extended universe.
wow, just wow....
waiting 4 weeks is gonna suck.
Well, at least no one can say it's not serialized enough at this point.
"Is Mike dead? Or is he just Marvel-dead?"
Squishy

Dead dead.
Yeah, kinda strange the normal haters aren't here
Good episode. So will Coulson come out of this knowing what he wants to know? That would be cool. Meanwhile May will break it off with Ward because it is making her unbalanced and she needs more than anything to be balanced from here on in.
I like the way Coulson is shown to be such a good people person because if May takes over, it will be even more of a contrast.
Pretty good episode. I'm not quite clear on what happened with the explosion, but I think it's a good bet that Mike is not dead.

They could do worse on this show than to follow Buffy's format of a Big Bad every season.
I'll be worried about the judgement of the creative team if Mr. Peterson doesn't make a return. J. August Richards is too good to waste.
Oh man,great episode tonight.Didn't see that cliffhanger or death assuming Peterson is dead.I was hoping we see more of JAR on the series.

But again,really liked this episode.
"...but I think it's a good bet that Mike is not dead."
AndrewCrossett

I would love to be wrong.
Re Mike, I think maybe the usual Marvel rule applies: If you don't see a body, he's not dead. Or maybe even if you do see a body, he's not dead. Hmm, on the other hand, maybe the rule is: Unless your name is Uncle Ben or Gwen Stacey, then you're not dead.

[ edited by Squishy on 2013-12-11 03:32 ]
Ha, Squishy beat me to the uncle ben joke.
I thought "oh no" about Mike when the explosion happened (and my local feed froze on it) but then I remembered he's wearing those superclothes Fitz and Simmons made for him. He's fine.
Yeah... no body, no death.

Also, it wouldn't make dramatic sense for a character like Mike to die for no purpose. They put too much effort into developing the character and his relationship with his son to just go, "Okay, we're done with him now, waste him."
Perhaps Mike becomes someone even more powerful than he was before. His origin story may not be over. If the show can't have the A-list superheroes, perhaps they will create a B- or C-list set to fill in.

Either that, or he's dead. Or maybe exploded Mike was a(n) LMD.

Also, Mike will have to make the same decision that Skye's parent(s) had to make.

And if May isn't Skye's mother (with Coulson as possible father), I'll eat my hat. That is, if I had one.

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2013-12-11 04:00 ]
The fight choreography was nice, except that it made no sense.
They ran away because the agents got the upper hand?

May, Ward, and Coulson were on the ground and dazed. Mike managed to knock down *one* of the soldiers, at the cost of near-fatal rebar in his side. With 3 remaining soldiers vs. a weakened Mike, why would anyone think that SHIELD was winning that fight?
Hmm... A little bit of theorizing time. Half of it is reasonable, and half of it is absolutely crazy, and probably not true.

Clairvoyance, when you look at the word roots, means "clear vision." They telegraphed that the Clairvoyant and the Eye Spy group were related in "The Girl with the Flower Dress" and I didn't even notice. That said, I suspect that the Clairvoyant is the one that ultimately receives all the eye feeds. I strongly suspect that both Raina and Edison have eye implants, and that he's watching them. Also that the eye-stabbery had to do with the implants, on some level. Okay, so that's my reasonable half. Parts of it might not pan out, but I feel its reasonable.

My crazy theory is that the Clairvoyant is none other than Nick Fury. Where is he receiving all the feeds? In the eye under the eyepatch? Why is he doing all these crazy things? Why isn't big SHIELD stepping-in in a more major way? 95% of the stuff we're seeing has been orchestrated to happen by Nick Fury in order to program Coulson. They were able to reconstruct most of Coulson's body, even his memories. But there was some essential faucet to Coulson that they could not recreate. Aleka said Coulson was different. Big SHIELD doesn't like that. They need him to be the way he was. For some reason, this is VERY critical. He serves some essential function. So they took a look at his life, the big moments in it, and are trying to put him through things that will re-create the person that was there before.
It was a trap, OneTeV. They just wanted to see who was asking about the guy whose name I have forgotten. They left a few super soldiers behind, saw what they needed, killed whoever was still alive. They especially wanted to keep Coulson and Mike alive at that point. Coulson was who they needed, and Mike could deliver them Coulson.
Squishy even Gwen Stacy came back if I'm not mistaken.

Killing off JAR sucks. That pissed me off. Coulson says he has to explain to his son why he did what he did...and then the show kills him so he doesn't have to now. What?

But other than that I enjoyed the episode. May was really b^tchy in this episode, no? She needs to soften up some.

[ edited by eddy on 2013-12-11 04:14 ]
I think Gwen remained dead but her clone came back?
eddy, May's reaction to Skye tonight has me wondering if there's a hidden bond between them. Perhaps May knew the agent who brought Skye in. It's possible she's her mother. Actually, I wonder if the Cavalry incident, May, and Skye are somehow connected.

[ edited by PaperSpock on 2013-12-11 04:25 ]
@Sunfire: They could have run away at the start, right after they saw (and had images of) the 4-member team, with the tossed cargo container giving them the opening.

Or the soldiers keep going, win the fight, and take all four unconscious agents (including Mike) with them.

Don't forget, they didn't identify Coulson until *after* the "run away" command was given. (The image on the tablet was from the perspective of the fallen soldier, not from earlier in the fight.)

There is no reason for them to run away, at the cost of one of the few valuable soldiers that Centipede had. (There was the scene earlier where we are told that progress is slow because they had to keep moving the lab.)

The story clearly intended for the agents to have the upper hand, it just wasn't choreographed that way in the show.
OneTev -- When something like that happens, if it's not too jarring, I just go with "plot reasons" and let it slide. It's bound to happen, especially when shooting a weekly TV show, when there may not be enough time or resources to take the story in a more natural direction.
I doubt Mike Peterson is dead. We didn't see a body, not much point dramatically to make us wait four weeks to confirm he is dead. Looses its impact. Besides, a Disney owned show is not going to kill off a father in front of his young son like that. Not on a family show. He'll be hurt bad and out of action for a while. My guess on the Skye-May connection, May is the agent who dropped Skye off at the orphanage after either having to kill Skye's parents or failing to save/protect them.

[ edited by andOtherDreams on 2013-12-11 04:43 ]
Skye is a "gifted". As a child, she was worshiped by an evil cult. May went in and neutralized them, in the incident that earned her the nickname "The Cavalry". Baby Skye was dropped off at the orphanage and was on SHIELD's watchlist ever since. Watch the promo for the upcoming episodes with this information in mind.

[ edited by Barry Woodward on 2013-12-11 06:10 ]
I like that theory Barry Woodward. I like it a lot. It seems out of character for the show to make them evil though.
In no particular order:

*Wouldn't be surprised if Mike Peterson is dead - at least for the long term (this season). He doesn't appear to be in any of the post break episodes, and since we know they're adding two recurring characters it's unlikely there's room for him big picture.

*My son laughed, when May mentioned she didn't like the plan, "of course she doesn't, she doesn't like anything"

*That said, I've come around on Ward since the premiere, but find May increasingly one-note

*Found the tone of the Girl in Flower Dress all over the map. Is she an evil schemer? Docile underling? I'm hoping she is revealed to have the upper hand over Po who is quite the dull bad guy so far

*If the show delivers on the promise to reveal the whole Tahiti bit, while also showing us a SHIELD rogue unit on the run aiming to misbehave - I'm all in. If we spend the next 10 weeks continuing to drop background plotlines while not giving us a worthy Big Bad, I'll be kind of bummed.

*I never have even noticed the score before - until tonight when it swelled up for the bridge scene. Liked it.

*Of course Disney can kill off a parent. The bastards killed Bambi's mom. And Lil' Nemo's. And Simba's dad. And ... well, you get the idea.
Yeah, kinda strange the normal haters aren't here

As opposed to the aby-normal haters? ;)
Overall an enjoyable episode. The drama felt more authentic and the choreography was much improved. I'm also definitely starting to care more about the characters, which was really the biggest difficulty I'd previously had with the show. Furthermore, I really like the 'cult-kid' theory about Skye that I read up there in the thread. The same thought had crossed my mind, in a more unformed, needle in a haystack kind of way, but it really works when I see someone lay it out like that. See, I'm theorizing. Good job, show!
Humm. I like that we're finally moving forward a bit with the (frankly tedious) issue of Coulson's resurrection. I like that the team is finally being depicted as a group that can bring "supers" into the fold, and that they actually want to help.

But man, this show can't sustain any of the momentum that it manages to build. The frequently clunky dialogue (they used a variant of the "he's standing right behind me, isn't he?" cliche, there were several half-joke groaners) and the absolutely leaden exposition/mission breakdown sequences just kill the rhythm of the show over and over again. The ridiculously out-of-place "ABC music" peppered throughout aren't really helping, either. The camaraderie between Mike and the SHIELD team also felt very rushed and forced, even though J's charisma/familiarity as an actor sold that fairly well.

This show needs some stakes, fast. Watching people "die" in a world where we know "Tahiti" exists gives everything a certain weightlessness, and is limiting my (and I assume others') investment in any of the characters. I really want to like this show, but it's just playing things way too safe at the moment.
@gypsy_sally: I'd agree that this was the strongest written episode (outside the pilot), due to the character interaction. I cared more about the characters in this episode than I did for the rest of the season.

@Meanderer: Except that it would have taken so little effort to take the fight in the natural direction, it did "jar" me. It makes me wonder if there is a B-team of filmmakers being told to make a fight scene, without being told how it fits into the larger story.

By so little effort, I mean any of the following:
1) Start the fight with only Mike and Phil. May and Ward show up later to tip the tide.
2) The soldiers run away when Phil gets his gun back, and Coulson decides to crank the setting up to 11.
3) Ward gets knocked across the floor into his backpack, where he pulls out *his* version of "Vera".
4) The soldiers just walk away. In the next scene, instead of Coulson saying that his team had the advantage, he gets to wonder why the soldiers would just walk away when *they* were winning.
5) The first soldier hits Mike with the rebar. One of the others yells out that they weren't supposed to harm Mike. First soldier gets eye-fried (while on his feet) as punishment, and the other three run away.
"The Bridge" had so many lovable moments. I mostly cared for Skye's storyline because I just think Chloe Bennet plays the character so fucking well. J. August Richards is back, and that kept me locked in fanboy mode! Gunn <3 What I want after this episode is MORE MORE MORE, of anything. And a Joss-directed / written episode? Pretty please with a Xander on top? I can't wait too see what happens, and I'm so sad that I have to wait so long to find out :'(
Yeah, kinda strange the normal haters aren't here

Hey, give us a chance to watch it. We also need at least 3 minutes afterwards to analyse and pass judgement. ;)

But anyway, back to the ep. Have to agree with everything Shpadoinkle said. The "comedy" was just groan inducing, but I guess that's what they were trying to go for? Idk. And boy do they have to do something about the Bus. Nearly every scene in there is like a visual sleeping pill.


*Found the tone of the Girl in Flower Dress all over the map. Is she an evil schemer? Docile underling? I'm hoping she is revealed to have the upper hand over Po who is quite the dull bad guy so far

This. Her characterization is all over the place.

The action choreography seemed to have improved a bit, (despite the warehouse fight making no sense. They got the upper hand? Whuh?) but I feel they are still editing them way too much.

Besides Coulson, Ward is pretty much the only one on the team I like any more so I hope he is alright. I'd also like it if the writers would make him less stupid. This guy is supposed to be an elite SHIELD agent. Setting up a sniper position where there is a cement truck in your line of sight? Sigh.
I'm pretty sure I've reach the "that's it for me!" stage with this show now. It's just SO SO SO bland. All of the dialogue scenes in this episode just sat there lifeless, like budget saving fillers before we could have an action scene (not that the action scenes were much better). The writing is just not good. Everybody stands there stating exactly what's happening and exactly what they're thinking and exactly what's required of them. "So the bad guys are here" "They must be doing this" "We should go and do this" "Let's do that, but hope the bad guys don't do something else" "Sounds like a good plan, now let's go do that plan" "I'm not sure I trust this part of the plan" "Don't worry about it, if you didn't worry about the plan I'd think something is wrong with you" "Yes, that is the right way to think about this situation. Now let us go" "Yes, let us go. I shall drive this car down a long stretch of straight road but keep turning the wheel around" "Sounds good to me". And so on and so forth. It's a lifeless thud of a series pitched directly at nobody.
It's a little sad that nobody is worried about whether or not Ward is dead.

[ edited by Jason_M_Bryant on 2013-12-11 14:51 ]
Jason_M_Bryant,

Anyway, I do not think Mike is dead, as we did not see a body, it would not really resonate that much (since we only just got to see him reunite with his kid, and I do not think they want to pull another Willow/Tara routine) and he is a superhero. Which is not to say he may now be "changed" in some way.

I want to much to like this. But pacing and ephemera keeps getting in my way. I counted something like 12 quick cuts in the first fight we saw, and that was in something like around 10 seconds, so they are cutting to new scenes every .8 of a second, so that you get no real sense of the fight, its space, and so on. The fights are just choreographed so badly. They went after Mike's kid after we had been informed that Mike had not had any contact with his son since he went to "work." So why at that exact point would they think to take his son hostage, just at the very time Mike called? Coincidence much? Do we have to have the trope of the bad guy who is so bad he cannot even thank the very person who rescued him and who treats her like dirt? Why would anyone think Coulson would know what happened to himself, when it is clear he does not? Why send May and Ward to the bedroom- and make it clear this has been ongoing- just to immediately break it up? They trying to appease skyward shippers? And yet.

I still engage. I don't really have a character to identify with, but I do want to see if they are going to be able to pull this off. I do not really see this episode as anything more than a set-up for Coulson's story, but we knew that was coming in one form or another.
I'd like to think that if Jane Espenson were on the writing staff, she would have slapped whoever included the "He's standing right behind me" joke in the script. During the awkward silence before Ward delivered the punchline, I kept hoping and hoping they would have a clever take on it, but no... straight up groaner cliche.
I have a question. Why does centipede even care about the circumstances of Coulson's death and resurrection? What does it have to do with stabilizing extremis? Or any other aspect of their mission? The statement about Mike being the key to stage 3, while obviously a mislead, makes more sense because he has stabilized, and maybe his blood holds clues or something about how to achieve such stability? I don't get why they're interested in Coulson but I guess it must have to do with their building of super soldier types? Which could support the idea that Coulson is an LMD with some superpowers? Am I missing something?

ETA, I guess they might just want to learn how to resurrect people, but that seems like a shift in focus for them...

[ edited by Squishy on 2013-12-11 14:12 ]
@VaughnOfTheDead and @Knuckleball: You've reminded me that this show is very straightforward. Misinterpreting what other people say is an easy source of humor that is oddly lacking for an ME series. And the longer exposition monologues would have been mercilessly mocked by the characters from any of the other series.

(To be fair, one of my favorite bits from Angel was:
"Will you just shut up for once?!"
"What?"
"My God, the speechifying! Has it ever occurred to you that now might not be the best time for when-we-were-muck stories?")


@Squishy: I'm worried that Centipede abducted Coulson to make a shocking plot twist, rather than because it made narrative sense. (I thought they were going to take *both* Coulson and Mike, or at least force a blood sample from Mike before he ran back with his kid.)

I've mentioned before: one of the things I like about previous Mutant Enemy offerings was that the writers would telegraph the twists, but I would still be surprised. By that I mean all the clues are presented early and often, but because they were used for comedy or for character interaction, it didn't occur to me that they also fit into the bigger picture.

So for this episode, it probably would have helped, during the scene where Mike was worried that his son is growing and changing without him, if Mike said he thought his son wanted the NY action heroes, and his son really wanted Alias dolls. (Or that his son wanted a humanoid robot doll, if they wanted to wink at the "Coulson is LMD" fans.)
Dana,

No, I didn't watch the promo. I like to avoid them.

Not that it would have been much of a spoiler if I had. I didn't really expect it to be any different.
. . .Does anyone else think that May might be dealing with the aftereffects of the Asgardian anger stick (TM)? I know she said that she relives her worst nightmare daily, and that thus the staff didn't affect her--but it's possible it stirred something up that's had a delayed impact and/or she was downplaying its effect. She was really snappish in this episode, and looking back, she was pretty on-edge in the previous episode. (We only have her word for it that she said to the phasing guy--sorry, don't recall his name offhand--what Coulson had said to her; it's possible that Coulson didn't, in fact, give her a "you can never move past this" speech.)

She's been brusque in the past, and it's possible I'm overthinking this--she did prank Fitz at the end of last episode--but I'm getting the sense that she's less stable than she was. Less acting, more reacting.

[ edited by KieraJenG on 2013-12-11 15:22 ]

[ edited by KieraJenG on 2013-12-11 16:28 ]
they used a variant of the "he's standing right behind me, isn't he?" cliche

Yeah, if anybody doubted whether Joss had any day-to-day involvement with the scripts, that should have settled it right there.

Stuff like that makes me wonder whether this show would actually go with a cliche as hideous as "Skye, I'm your father/mother."

Still, sticking with the positive, stuff actually happened in this episode that I cared about. Edison Po is a nicely creepy villain, though Raina is turning out to be just the smirking, arrogant baddie from central casting. I'm curious about the clairvoyant, too.

And I'm glad that Skye finally called BS on the repeated claims by characters that "XXX is impossible" or 'XXX is just a myth." S.H.I.E.L.D.'s mission is to keep the world safe from crazy comic book stuff... hard to do that if you deny the possible existence of said stuff.
@AndrewCrossett: And it is the mundane superpowers (for want of a better phrase) that they are saying is impossible. I keep waiting for the irony, but they keep playing it straight. (For example, if they are going to say that levitation is impossible, it should be done while riding in flight-mode Lola.)
I keep waiting for the irony, but they keep playing it straight.

The funny thing is, everytime one of the team poo-poohs some paranormal explanation, they turn out to be right... and the real explanation turns out to be something much weirder.

Simmons ridiculed the idea that the Berserker Staff was magical... and it turned out to be tech from a race of godlike aliens.

She ridiculed the idea of telekinesis in "Repairs," and it turned out to be a man jumping through portals between the Nine Worlds of Norse mythology.

Now Coulson claims psychics are just a myth... so the clairvoyant will probably turn out to be something much wackier.

I'd *like* to think the writers are deliberately building this up to be a running gag.
@Dana5140: I actually thought Mike's son being kidnapped at that moment fit well into the narrative. Centipede only found out Mike was involved with SHIELD during the fight in the warehouse, so they went for his son immediately after. The fight also gave Coulson a good reason to talk with Mike about his priorities, given that Mike was injured in the fight, leading Mike to call his son (also soon after the fight). The dialogue during the phone call between Ace and Raina suggested that the kidnapping was not a snatch and grab job, but rather one where Centipede was waiting for Mike to make contact, to arrange the ransom.

@Squishy: I'm not sure Mike does make more sense than Coulson as the key to stage 3. Yes, Mike's body has stabilized the extremis, but that is a problem Centipede already largely solved with Scorch's platelets. Mike is still experiencing the same post-usage exhaustion and recovery time, which appears to be Centipede's biggest problem with their super soldiers. On the other hand, it's now evident that Coulson underwent something unique to come back from the dead: something that presumably will solve Centipede's stage 3.

My theory on the Clairvoyant is that he is the "gifted" from the Bahrain mission where May became the cavalry. After rewatching "Repairs", I got the sense that the civilian girl in the incident was a different person than the "gifted". I'm thinking that his power was clairvoyance (hence the name), and Centipede are his followers: Po and Raina both look like they could possibly be from Bahrain; maybe Raina is even the girl from the incident. It would certainly lead to some interesting character arcs for May and possibly Coulson if they were literally fighting their past demons.
Here's the thing, though, re: discovering the truth of what happened to Coulson - his "resurrection", the real nature of his survival, call it what you will. It's not as though it's something which in any way has been "dragged out" - them doling out subtle and utmost tantalizing nuggets of information, to that end, in no way means that it's a thing which drags on overlong or somehow becomes "tedious" in the telling.

It's simply the natural progression of the storyline when it's given time to develop, and indeed a most realistic one, at that, for the full truth to not be revealed to Coulson himself most of all, *or* us, for that matter, right away and all at once....that wouldn't be realistic in the slightest, it wouldn't make *sense* - and not just because we *are* dealing with SHIELD here, Fury et al, so clearly they know how to be keeping their secrets, to this end. Though definitely that is part of it!

Additionally, I know full well that the very same people who have somehow taken issue with the progression of this storyline or character arc, e.g. the gradual nature of the unfolding of the truth about Coulson, would equally have complained long, and loud, and vociferous, had in fact everything been revealed about it in the pilot or in the first couple episodes.

Those who have taken it upon themselves to complain about the fact that it's by simple necessity taken some time for that to unfold, as it will, would have complained the very exact same had it been done any other way. It seems, to me, as though the show can't win for trying, with some people. Which is extremely unfortunate, but *not* for the show.

And why yes, as a matter of fact, totally unrelated to this - I *did* laugh at Ward's he's-standing-right-behind-me-isn't-he moment, as did my friend, for that matter....whether or not it's something we've seen before, it's all in the delivery and in the reaction, and I feel that Ward's was that pitch-perfect-oh-*no*, slow and beautifully-dawning reaction - and only ever more hilarious because it was *him* - sometimes-snarly, not-exactly-always-great-with-the-people-skills Ward, LOL. Why yes, I did say it. :)
Ugh. Just watched The Bridge. Everyone in this episode felt like a cardboard cut-out. I felt no emotional investment in the characters or their plight at all (and I've been watching all along). The show is really starting to bore me... and that makes me sad.
"Actually, I wonder if the Cavalry incident, May, and Skye are somehow connected."
PaperSpock

Now THAT is some yummy speculation.
Loved it. Great episode with twists I didn't see coming. Really curious to see what long game Raina is playing. She seems like a climber playing many angles at once. Slimy angles but angles nonetheless.

And STAKES! Coulson kidnapped! Ward shot! Mike blown to smithereens! :) And since this is Marvel we know the good guys will be ok (ish) in the long run. Can't wait for January and the revelations about Tahiti and hopefully finding out just what May knows about Skye and why it affects her so much.
Simmons and Mike Peterson. May and Ward. Coulson and Skye (in a very different way). It's the character stuff which interests me on this show. The spy stuff, honestly, I keep as background noise. Gadgets and Marvel moments are fun in movies, but I definitely think the character moments are what makes it, uh, fly on TV. The good news for me is these keep pushing forward and those bits make the episodes.
I loved it, tbh. I've reached the point where I'm completely invested in the characters already, so even when they toss in uber-cliched dialogue ("he's standing behind me", nah, we've never heard that one before...) I shrug it off. I like these people now and I care about what happens to them. Speaking of which, please let Mr. Peterson not be dead.
Hey, Sunfire. Thanks a bunch for putting JAR's return directly in the description on the main page, thus robbing me of the fun in discovering that surprise for myself in its intended context. :(
Yeah I'd blame all the promotion for the show too kungfubear. It wasn't exactly a secret. It was promoted as the hook for the episode.
I generally think that anything revealed in the first 15 minutes of the show is fair game. JAR shows up within six minutes. I think everyone making the show knew that he'd be in the commercials, so they weren't depending on it being a surprise.
That's all well and good but I don't watch promos, for specifically that reason. I want to go in cold and let the program unfold naturally on its own. I don't like the idea of someone or something else deciding for me what and when I should know something. Whether it happens in the first 6 minutes or the last 6 minutes I think is irrelevant, as it's all part of the same 42 minutes of an episode and if I'm going to get spoiled beforehand on something like that, then why even bother watching? Why stop there when someone else can just tell me the rest of what happens?

Take for example, the trailer of Cabin in the Woods. There's a shot in the trailer that gives away a big (I think) piece of information about the film. When promoting that trailer here, we were all in collective agreement not to openly discuss that, instead choosing to use a "Spoiler" tag and warn people ahead of time so they can make the decision for themselves whether or not they want to proceed and be privy to this info outside the context of the film.

Now, all of a sudden, the attitude of "Well, it's in the trailer, so to hell with it" is in practice? Seems like a bit of an inconsistent, double standard to me. Let's pick a lane here and stick with it, folks.
I'm getting more disappointed with this show. I thought this episode could bring it to another level, I was bored instead. I liked the last few minutes, but the rest of the episode was pretty weak.

Like some people mentioned, some lines are so bad that I'm guessing Joss's involvement is almost nonexistant at this point. Or if it isn't, I don't know how he can let some of that dialogue make it into the episodes. I honestly feel like the show is taking the audience for idiots sometimes.

There were good moments, but the bad writing, terrible settings (I hate that plane) and some mediocre acting is just too distracting. Especially after 10 episodes!
I thought the preview for January was kind of promising, they seem to be diving into the story. But even then, I'm not sure I'll care if they don't make some radical changes.
The espisode was decent, but not a game changer. I guess they went for the cliffhanger so they could add the game changing element next episode?

That part with the 'he's standing behind me' thing, I was thinking 'I hope he doesn't say that' before he said it. That was not whedonesque at all.

On the plus side, I absolutely love the Raina character, I insist that she reminds me a little bit of Lilah. She is a great actress and I think the scenes she was in were better for it.

ETA: I hadn't thought of it before, but PaperSpock's theory about the Clairvoyant makes lots of sense. I had originally thought that the 'Eye Group' and 'Centipede' were separate entities, but obviously they are not.

[ edited by KissingToast on 2013-12-12 20:39 ]

[ edited by KissingToast on 2013-12-12 20:40 ]
I thought the exact same thing before the "he's behind me isn't he" line. Or rather, I hoped there would be a more clever or witty take on the line.

I agree, the writing isn't good enough, and the momentum from better episodes isn't carried forward enough. I find these bad guys quite boring and poorly defined. I like the actors, but they aren't being given good material. I don't think the show is awful by any means, but it needs to get better for this Marvel foray into TV to be called a success.

Oh I don't know if it's been mentioned, but the computer table scenes are a carbon copy of Hawaii Five-0, write down to the hand swishing to get the image on to the vertical screen. Kinda funny if you watch that show.

[ edited by Toivo on 2013-12-13 00:30 ]

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