Whedonesque : Comments on 3255 : Joss, what are we fighting for?

That's a touching letter. It shows how the voice of a single fan can be powerful.

....a...huh?......

That letter is a bunch of bunk. The TV and the internet are not a substitute for life. They can be an enriching supplement but not a substitute. To suggest fans of Joss' shows would be out living their lives if it weren't for these shows is insulting them. That they are somehow holding back people from their lives is beyond stupid. We're talking ay any one time up to two hours of TV here.

Hank lay off the crank.

IMMORTAL | March 12, 18:30 CET

Hmm. Yes. Because it's all Joss's fault that if fans aren't smart enough to realize that there's a real world outside of his show.

(Not that that's what I think the Saving Angel campaign is--just what the writer is claiming.)

Sigh. Annoying factual errors plus an opinion I can't seem to wrap my head around. Is it supposed to be serious? If it wasn't for the factual errors (I must have missed it when Xander and Cordelia went to college), I would think that it was supposed to be...not meant to be serious. You know, sarcastic and poking fun. But the whole earnestness and simple errors. Maybe that's the point. Or maybe I'm giving the writer too much credit.

(I did like the description of Harmony, though.)

[ edited by witless on 2004-03-12 16:38 ]

witless | March 12, 18:35 CET

I took the whole "life binding" to be generally 'tongue in cheek' with the idea that we need this show to continue as if our lives depend on it.

brob1 | March 12, 18:40 CET

I agree. An odd article. It seems a little bunky, but its not really worth the read if its a joke. By the way, WHY DIDNT U PUT A *expletive* SPOILER TAG on the post. Now I know that Fred dies, and we're only at ep 5 down here. Thanks. Oh well, I'll just go and hit my head against a wall and act like I never read it...

kaivaal | March 12, 18:45 CET

Sorry kaivaal, but it's no longer a spoiler if the episode has aired in America.

Simon | March 12, 18:48 CET

I thought it was amusing in that sarcastic kinda way. Don't know why some took it so personally

nychick | March 12, 18:58 CET

Whatever the tone or message of the letter (which, I beleive is absolutely ridiculous. Blaming Whedon for taking meaning/purpose out of life? Come on, give me a break. IMO, life pretty much takes care of that void all by itself, and anyways, I think there are a lot more extremely dangerous soul-sucking routes that probably should be worried about first. I think the Whedon-verse is the least of teens/20-somethings real problems. Take for instance, drugs or reality TV. "The hardest thing in the world is to live in it.")

What really makes me angry about the "open letter" is that there is no comment/response section. Hank is obviously baiting a response, and he obviously knows he's going to get it from the very vocal Whedon community. Hey hank, if you are going to write something so heavy-handed, so damning, about anybody really, you should include a forum for that person, or their defenders, to also speak their mind.

On the internet, the purposeful lack of direct communication with the audience always leaves me feeling that the letter doesn't deserve my time or even my attention.

nicoblu710 | March 12, 19:17 CET

The writer of that article was full of himself! Please, I love the show, but it is so NOT a substitute for my own life. What a crock. This is probably the same person who blames violence on "the tv show made me do it".

cubiclesatan | March 12, 19:26 CET

Thank you. Not only is it the last ever series of Angel (although I'm still hoping against hope it's not), now I know the fate of one of the major characters.

The comment "it's no longer a spoiler if the episode has aired in America" is elitist and unfair. A spoiler doesn't have a set shelf life where it no longer remains a spoiler. At least a "contains references to Season Five of Angel" would have been sufficient.

Whilst the internet is a minefield of potential spoilers, those who don't want to be spoiled know where not to look - this doesn't count an article such as this.

As the creator of this article, I would suggest you please do what's 'nice' and put up a spoiler warning before you ruin further people's enjoyment...

[ edited by Arwen on 2004-03-12 18:49 ]

Arwen | March 12, 20:46 CET

....a...huh?......

Exactly. When did meandering become a fashion statement?

[ edited by bookrats on 2004-03-12 18:47 ]

bookrats | March 12, 20:47 CET

Screw him. I often work 60+ hours a week fighting for social justice, my spouse does every week--Angel is a nice and entertaining metaphor, I think its voice on television is very important, but it does NOT give my life meaning. What a jerk. It sounds like he needs to find something more to do.

And money that should have rightly gone to John Kerry? Is that the best he could think of? God, my worry was that it might be wasted on an ad when it could have gone to the hungry or homeless or ill in the name of Angel instead. Why would Coll want to send her money to Kerry? What does he think, that all the fans had a pool of money they were donating to Kerry but diverted it to "Saving Angel"?

And at least get your facts straight. Xander, college, huh?

marmoset | March 12, 21:01 CET

Arwen you got caught me on a bad day at work, I've put a reference up.

We can't put spoiler tags on every article that contains a reference to events that been seen in the States because it would be unfair to the US posters but in future I would recommend that people check what they post and if there is something very major mentioned in a article (such as this one) flag it in the subject line but keep it brief (Angel episode 7 reference for example).

[ edited by Simon on 2004-03-12 19:49 ]

Simon | March 12, 21:14 CET

Thanks Simon. Sorry if I came across grumpy too, however I'm sure you understand the torment we fans are in... and that having so little story left to be told I want to have it remain as fresh as possible!

Arwen | March 12, 21:38 CET

I'm not sure if this guy understands the point of the show. And about Angel having a life purpose, I think he needs to rewatch "You're Welcome."

Invisible Green | March 12, 21:46 CET

I don't understand what point he's trying to make. That he's a loser and now someone's gonna pay? And the over-the-top language of it all: "a strong internal desire for a tangible reason to live", "forcing(?!) a fantasy world onto lonely intelligent high school and college graduates graduates who had full lives ahead of them", and "you took our good years". Puh-leeze! Joss Whedon creates some unparalled fine television, he doesn't take away viewers free will or, maybe in Hank's case, steal their brains. I may be a little insulting, but he insults Mr. Whedon by stating things such as "the only way I will be pleased with you as an individual" and "then I will respect you and we can be friends again". I hope Mr. Whedon does read this. I'm sure he could use a good laugh right now.

bloodflowers | March 12, 22:15 CET

Only because it's 1)that time of the month and 2)I'm sick and cranky, I decided to make trouble and email the eloquent writer of that article, Hank. (Whose email is available on the Knot mainpage for anyone who wants to do the same.)

Dear Hank,

Unlike Joss, I found your article not very good.

"In our twenties, Joss, is when we should be finding our own reason to live...Our lives are largely without meaning but, in that City of Angels you created, there is something to fight for."

You may have a life without meaning, but that does not go to say that other Angel viewers do. I, and I daresay a great many other people, don't watch Angel to make my life "meaningful". I watch it because I enjoy it, it's fun, relaxing, etc. etc. etc.

I support the various campaigns to save Angel, not because I am, as your column implies, some pathetic nerd without a social life, but because I want quality television to survive. I am not a fan of the "any reality tv show will suffice" camp. Angel is one of the few things I take time to watch since I am 1) working full-time, 2) attending classes for a certificate program, and 3)hanging out with my friends.

And while I do support John Kerry, I think your way of advertising him is pretty pathetic and will inevitably turn a few precious voters off. (Not to mention, there may be a few Bush supporters who love Angel as well.)

"What I'm disappointed about is you forcing a fantasy world onto lonely intelligent high school and college graduates who had full lives ahead of them."

No one is forcing anyone to do anything. People make choices. And many Angel fans make time for plenty of meaningful real-world interaction. Angel fans are from all walks of life - not just "angsty 20-somethings". They are educators, parents, teachers, social workers...you name it.

Perhaps you've read "The Perks of Being a Wallflower" too many times, because you certainly sound like its main character - completely out of touch with reality.

Sincerely,

Danita

P.S. Xander never went to college!

cubiclesatan | March 12, 22:36 CET

Good work cubiclesatan.

marmoset | March 12, 23:04 CET

Great work Cubiclesatan! oh and I am a Bush supporter and love the Whedonverse!!! Is that a contradiction? hehehe

Coll | March 12, 23:10 CET

Yeah Cubiclesatan, well said. This was just a weird article whose actual point eludes me. He claims people who like Buffy and Angel are losers who don't have an actual life, and will have no meaning in their lives left if the show ends.

Okay. That COULD be a satirical compliment of how important the show can become to people because it's so good. But it doesn't sound like it, does it?

Then he goes on that he'll only have respect for Joss if he ends Angel and then tell fans that there is meaning to life without it......okay. I don't get this at all. Not even sure if I'm pissed of at it, cause I don't really know what he's trying to say. Was this a letter to make fun of fans??

"I am a Bush supporter and love the Whedonverse!!! Is that a contradiction? "

Ahmmmmm......little bit, yeah. ;-)

EdDantes | March 12, 23:39 CET

Simon, why not have two tags: "SPOILER", and "NON-US SPOILER", or something like that? It really shouldn't be that hard to cater for everyone.

kaivaal | March 13, 11:46 CET

March 12 2004