They're not the only one.

Thomas | March 16, 16:43 CET

Saying Spike has been "watered down" this season, is in my opinion, wrong. What we've seen this year is a guy who died for love suddenly thrust into an environment full of strangers, and one of his oldest rivals, he was trapped with these people for months, expecting him to be exactly like he was on Buffy would be foolish. The Spike character has continued to grow this year, he's excepted that he'll probably never get Buffy, he's started to help people, showing growth from "Just Rewards" when he said "I don't give a piss about redemption or atonement". He's started to realise that maybe he and Angel shouldn't be rivals, they have a lot in common, and are a lot stronger together. Season 5's Spike, has been Spike, he's just grown and changed, as people do.

Another thing, Spike was never going to remain dead, his death was a device to get him to the spinoff (it was either going to be Faith or Angel, both had a Ghost Spike in them), if he wasn't going to the spinoff, I don't know what they would have done with the character, but I do not think he would have died.

Ghost Spike | March 16, 16:51 CET

I was totally unspoiled when I watched Chosen. I had no idea that Spike was moving over to Angel. So when he died at the end of Buffy, that was really the end to me. I was gutted. I couldn't believe that he was dead. So when I heard that he was going to appear in Angel I was over the moon.

No way should Spike have remained dead. I have enjoyed seeing him on AtS. I think JM and DB work brilliant together. I am aware that others don't agree, but this has been the best season of Angel in my opinion. I have loved seeing the growing "family" relationship between Spike and Angel. It is interesting and fun to watch. Yes, I have missed the Spike of old, but new Spike, finding his way without the girl he loves, is proving to be just as interesting.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions - this is just mine. I'm going to miss everything about AtS when it ends. Obviously, I am going to miss DB and Angel, but I am going to miss JM and Spike just as much. I hope that all of the cast go on to great things when AtS wraps. They deserve it.

Ghost Spike - I totally agree with everything that you said.

cal | March 16, 16:55 CET

She makes some good points. And I agree that it would have been better if Spike had been allowed to remain dead (or dead-er I should say... dead-est?)...

But I'm just not as disappointed with the character's transition as some seem to be. The worst thing to come out of the move to Angel has been that Spike is now being overshadowed by Wesley as my favorite Jossian character. But it's hardly the worst thing Spike has ever been forced to endure.

Haunt | March 16, 17:37 CET

I think the only point I would make about her comments is an old one: Spike chose to get his soul back, Angel's was forced upon him and he learned to deal with it and then value it.

We can only be left to wonder if they had just put Spike midseason instead of at the start, if it would have saved the show with a boost in new curious viewers. It's possible that the way they have utilized him until now has made loyal viewers yawn and drift off. It's a writing challange to have two "vampires with a soul" but I think this season was sub-par despite Spike.

TaraLivesOn | March 16, 17:44 CET

The only thing good about Spike remaining dead? I would have moved on and wouldn't be upset that Angel was cancelled.

He's the reason I'm here.

[ edited by twiggy on 2004-03-16 16:34 ]

twiggy | March 16, 18:33 CET

I'm of mixed feelings about this. A couple of years ago, there was a nasty Salon piece about how Spike was "ruining" Buffy with the Cool Factor. I didn't agree then.

Now, I wonder ... I like having Spike on Angel, but I kept expecting something a little more out of it. Maybe too much. He hasn't really interacted on a deep level with Gunn and Wesley, which I had looked forward to. He was always "in the mix" on Buffy and feels restrained on Angel.

I do agree about his sacrifice in "Chosen" being spoiled by the LOUDLY ANNOUNCED return of Spike to Angel early on.

Ocular | March 16, 18:40 CET

I agree with Tara. The problems with the show would be there whether Spike was onboard or not.

wissxwe | March 16, 18:41 CET

I for one was devastated at losing Spike in Chosen. I do beleive that had we gotten S8....Spike would not have died. It was a noble ending to his incredible journey...but I do not think Spike has been wasted on Angel at all. If anything he has made Angel question his own worth and purpose which is something I think Angel seriously needed to do.It also forces Angel to accept "other' champions do exist and Spike is definitley one of them. I love the dynamic between these two and as far as I'm concerned...Spike made the show for me this season. I will miss him most of all because he still is the underdog, still unloved, yet still keeps on trying. Spike has grown on his own too, he hasn't had Buffy to help him and I feel this might have been his mission for the season....to become his own man , to find purpose in his own life. Spike is such a fascinating character. Love him or hate him....he will NEVER be forgotten. I just hope that somehow, he too gets happiness in the end of Angel. God knows this guy deserves it. I want to remember him with joy in my heart, not endless sorrow.

kathylovesspike | March 16, 19:03 CET

Well, if it's true that JM coming aboard was something that sealed the deal for a season 5, then I'm thrilled he's back. Hell, I'm thrilled he's back anyway. I'm such a sad Spike fan that even a poorly written Spike is better than no Spike at all. Because if he's dead, I know he has no chance of finding someone who will truly love him. The way he ended in Chosen....it was heroic and I'm sure he died with some self satisfaction, but he died with the notion reinforced that Buffy never loved him. I just hope he doesn't die at the end of Angel, so I can fanwank in my head that he falls in love with some woman(more importantly who falls in love with him) who is....gasp....NICE to him and gives him looks that are readable and clear.
Spike has always been closer to my heart than any other character. He was the lure my hubby used to draw me into Buffyverse. I know the show is called Angel, but I SO want a decent ending for Spike. Perhaps a spinoff would be fitting, hehe...

Rogue Slayer | March 16, 19:26 CET

I agree with the writer on how "Chosen" was spoiled for me because of the WB widely announcing Spike would be back before we even saw him "die". I felt cheated because I am a cryer and I enjoy these emotional moments on Buffy and Angel. Spike's death would've sent me over the edge if I hadn't known it wasn't really the end.

I think they've incorporated Spike nicely into the Angel cast. They were walking a thin line here, too much Spike and everyone would be in an uproar that he was taking over Angel. I think they've done a nice balance. And yes, Spike was always in the mix on Buffy, but it was a gradual thing from season four on when he was forced to have to depend on them because of the chip. He never really seemed to get along with anyone else besides Buffy, Dawn and Joyce. The rest all made it clear that they tolerated him. I don't see that it has been that much different yet so far on Angel. He has had to prove himself to them and Fred was the only one that openly, readily gave him a chance. We are definitely seeing more acceptance from Angel and also on Spike's part too, accepting Angel.

I've enjoyed the "relationship" between Angel and Spike this season. Spike has added something new to the show and it's been great watching the development of both Vampires.

And yeah, I get all excited too when I watch the early episodes of Spike when he's introduced. It's a blast to watch him then and see how far his character has come. I just love that. One of my favorite Buffy episodes is the one when Willow does the spell and Buffy and Spike think they are in love. That is more of a hoot to me because now I know they do end up in a relationship! I love these characters and I really enjoy seeing how much Joss Whedon and company have done with them!

James Marsters is great as Spike with whatever they ask him to play, be it evil, heartless killer, or love sick poet. This season isn't over yet either and I'm looking forward to seeing where it takes us even though I'm dreading the final episode because it will be the final one.

Firefly Flanatic | March 16, 19:31 CET

Eh. This article seems like a variation on the nearly ubiquitous "my favorite character gets too little screen time" complaint... for one thing, it's Angel's show, and for another, much of what A:tS has done this season is show Spike's development in relation to Angel... who is, after all, the most like him of any of the Whedonverse characters. I like the bickering-brothers vibe of the two souled vampires, and some of my favorite moments of S5 have been the two of them interacting.

Just to name one? The hospital room scene at the end of "Damage"... stellar!

Kansas | March 16, 19:36 CET

I agree with parts of this article but I've still really enjoyed seeing Spike and Angel together. I loved Spike on Buffy and I'm always delighted to see JM since he's a fabulous actor, but I'm also torn about the way he's being depicted on AtS. When he and Angel are battling for the cup thing, Angel says he only asked for his soul to get into a girl's pants. I think the Spike in Buffy Season 7 proved this wrong, but the Spike in Angel Season 5 makes me wonder now and then. I guess I'm wondering why it's taken all of these episodes for him to finally decide to fight at Angel's side since he really was a hero on Buffy.
Some of my favorite AtS episodes are the flashbacks on Angelus's life with Darla in Seasons 2 & 3. The flashback this year with Drusilla was great, but I wish there could have been more - I guess there would have been if we'd gotten another season. This being the last season though, I think it should definitely focus on Angel - its' true he didn't choose to get his soul back but he's fought the good fight for a long time and deserves a hero's reward.

irish | March 16, 19:40 CET

All I can say is it's going to be an interesting finale. I would like to see both Vampires rewarded in some way. I highly doubt that tv movies on the WB will happen...so I would like to see it end with just rewards for our two champs...

[ edited by Coll on 2004-03-16 20:40 ]

Coll | March 16, 22:13 CET

No sorry this article is very weak. She doesn't want to see Spike as a second banana? Right, because he was the main character on Buffy right? Please, either on AtS or BtVS, every character that is not named Angel or Buffy is a second banana. Willow, Giles, Xander, Wesley, everyone. Spike was always a second banana like the rest of them.

Furthermore, for someone who's such a Spike fan and loves his development in BtVS she says some very strange things about his character arc. He should have stayed dead because it would have been better for his character? Nonsense. This season on Angel we've seen what we've NEVER seen, not in all those years on BtVS: Spike becoming his own man. Finding his own purpose and believing in it. Not acting out of love for his mom, or a Cecily, or a Drusilla or a Buffy. In all of his 100+ years he's never done anything that wasn't basically for one of those women. Even his sacrifice was mostly for Buffy's sake.

Now though he's not acting out of love for anyone, not that kind anyway. He was fond of Fred, he wasn't in love with her. He's not acting anymore out of dislike for Angel, nor the reluctant brotherly love underneath. (Yeah I said it) He's doing it because he believes it's right.

I was into the relationship with Buffy, but I was getting tired of Spike just being the rejected suitor who lived and breathed only for a glance from her. His coming to Angel bought him back in more than one way.

I've gotten everything I hoped for out of the relationship between Spike and Angel. By making the brother-relationship THE 'relationship-of-the-season' they've added to both characters. They didn't just have them bicker non-stop and they haven't made them suddenly fall into each others arms and pat each other on the back either. They've done it subtly and kept it ambiguous and they've done it well.

Their talk in Angels bedroom, the talk before Pavayne came, their fight over the cup of torment, the hospital scene at the end of Damage, almost EVERY scene in the last two eps, it has been great stuff. So alike yet so opposite, I can see why Joss was eager to get Spike over there.

And they're complaining he didn't go out drinking with Gunn more often or something? Pff like someone said, then they would've complained Spike 'took over the show'. Which is not the case either, they've always remembered it's Angels show.

No sorry, each his or her opinion of course, but this was the silliest thing I've read in a while. And I say silly, because if she hated Spike I would've understood her. But being a Spike fan and not liking his development? No, hard time with that one.

Both Spike and Angel have always been my favorites and this season has been one of the best for either character.

[ edited by EdDantes on 2004-03-16 20:28 ]

EdDantes | March 16, 22:26 CET

I agree with what Ed said. Very perfectly too.

Coll | March 16, 22:43 CET

Is Spike never supposed to change and evolve because it will ruin his character? No! Spike is changing and evolving the same as all of the other characters in the Jossverse. He isn't special. I love the character of Spike. I always have. I love him now. I loved him in "School Hard". The Spike we are seeing today is the product of the journey that he has been on since crashing into the sign in Sunnydale. I am glad he came to L.A. I am glad to see his relationship with Angel evolve past the same, tired snarkdom into something meaningful and real. Everyone has a right to their opinion. Thankfully, Joss' matters more. The thought of Spike remaining under the rubble that was once known as Sunnydale is too horrible to consider. I, for one, am glad that Joss saw fit to bring him back.

kdeweb | March 16, 22:44 CET

I like having Spike on Angel. I think it has given us a dimension of him we never would have gotten on Buffy. Don't get me wrong I am NOT dissing Buffy or Spike on Buffy, I am just saying that his character was somewhat defined by Buffy for a long time..in some ways the same way Angel was...because of their love for her. The Spike we see right now is one who has "grown-up" to some degree and is taking responsibility. Plus, I am just really loving the repartee between Angel and Spike.

Tracy | March 16, 22:50 CET

Wow. A lot of people I have been in contact with have been saying the same thing for months. This is what I think, it's terrible but here's goes.

I think James Marsters took a bullet for ME.

I think he and Joss knew fans would be way upset if they brought Spike on as he was at the end of seven--because that meant he would be Angel's equal if not his better. And to deal with him and the level of peace he had found in the end would be tantamount to respecting him enough to develop him...he had progressed way beyond his intial debut (Beautiful as it was)

And you guys gotta admit, a lot of Angel fans, that is, strictly B/A fans would prefer to keep Spike catagorized as a juvy. Just so much easier then to make him not equal to Buffy.

And going into enemy territory--the character was pulled back to a terrible Spike cum Michael Jackson scenario. That is we were forced to watch a character play years back past where he was at present and watch poor James Marsters perform way below his skill level.

I think he pulled his energy back so as not to offend B/A types...he is just way to good to suck so bad. If you doubt it just check out the scenes with Fred...gorgeous...lovely emotionaly stated, filled completely totally present a actors guidebook on how to get it done. And then just a scene later (with Angel) his energy is shallow, emotional connection to the material nonexistant. At first I thought it was a brilliant actors choice, a level of denying his reality...but it wasn't working and nobody was fixing it and we all know it wasn't working. All you gotta do is watch him and all his scenes with Angel--it's all OTL.

An actor like that--it would only have taken one note, just one: 'James be present'.

Any director at any time could have given that note, that is if it was his fault that wasn't there. Because it would have been such an easy fix--I think they must have been under orders not to fix it. That is until Joss brought season 7 Spike back in 'Hole in the World'

Bizarre in the extreme especially given his work ethic. Theatre people would rather die than not do their best. It's all about the ART.

I think he took one for the team.

Only now, thank Joss--and, maybe from the clamor of Spike fans that is, season 7 Spike fans--we were able to see him again in "Hole in the World." All of a sudden there is he was again, season 7 Spike in that small bit of prose at the end. And it was all together solid and connected.

So yeah, I'm almost sorry they brought him back...just to use him to pull in more viewers but do nothing with the character, I feel they used him to pull in viewers like my sister who never would have watched Angel sans Spike.

They used him as shadow show pony and bait to complete the series. This ATS5 has been all about Angel's development. We have learned very little that's real about Spike. All that stuff about learning humility--HUH? Duh. Anybody SEE 7? They just wanted to make it seem that Spike had something to learn from Angel so B/A's would accept him.

This is capitliasm I know it and I even accept that that is the price of business sometimes but here is the intersting irony..I haven't heard anyone mention it yet--is that Joss often paralell's his own life lessons with the season's theme. 7 was about the heavy weight of being a leader. ATS 5 is about how to work in the systems but to what degree allow yourself to be corrupted by it.

So he brings Spike back, but sells out on the character's development to keep the series alive. To find a way to work in the system. Think about it. Every writer does the Freudian slip.

Worse, I feel sorry for JM he is just way too seriously brilliant for this work to be how we remember him.

I think he took a bullet and Joss owes him big time.

I know money seems to be an issue with him but, I for one, am glad he's been released from his committment. I saw him at the Goodman in Chicago years and years ago and was not surprised when he made it big. Seriously, you don't do the Goodman unless you have killer chops. (so to speak)

I wanna see what he chomps next and given how ATS5 has treated him, (albeit with his agreement--he admitted after 'Destiny' they he didn't think they would ever let Spike beat Angel--so he knew what he was signing into to) but I think, now, yeah...he MUST, money or no go develop his talent. Cuz you sell out long enough--you loose the muse.

Come on James, it's time. I wanna see what you can do. I'll PAY to see what you can do.

BforBeth | March 16, 23:20 CET

Well...that was an incoherent mess. I couldn't agree less with pretty much anything you just said.

ringworm | March 16, 23:31 CET

Well, I would have agreed with the author of this article during the off-season between Buffy S7 and Angel S5. I was, like a lot of people, really disappointed that they announced that Spike was going over to Angel so quickly. I was very resolute in not being spoiled for S7 of Buffy because I'd read spoilers so avidly before that, but watching Chosen I felt like I might as well have read them because when Spike died, I barely cared because I knew he would be on Angel. I cared about Buffy's reaction, but even then I didn't really waste any energy being too upset.

With the way the WB were plastering Spike everywhere so quickly, in publicity shots et al., I was pretty irritated initially because it seemed like a) they were just showing off James Marsters and b) the show might turn into Angel and Spike instead of just Angel. That, though, was probably just the WB's way of marketing James Marsters and I think the writers have done a great job of writing Spike into things. Wanting the show to become all about Spike seems, well, rather fangirly to me. I mean, being sour because Spike didn't go out with Gunn or have a bunch of scenes with Wesley is like expecting all of the old, familiar Angel characters to suddenly revolve around Spike.

Not that I wouldn't have enjoyed seeing Spike interacting with them; I just don't feel like he needed to be pencilled into their lives heavily. That would have felt cheap.

weatherby | March 16, 23:38 CET

isa, the thing is, being on ANGEL (not named that for nothing), Spike is always going to be a supporting character. This is Angel's show, hence the title. That said, I think your assertion that B/A fans can't respect Spike is dead wrong. I am a HUGE B/A fan. Always have been. Always will be. However, I also adore Spike. I love his snarkiness. I love his energy. I love the heart with which he is played. I was thrilled he got the screentime he did on BUFFY. I root for him all day long. I am over the moon that they are developing the relationship between Angel and Spike as they are. They are interacting on a real basis, not simply the piss and vinegar stuff. To me, Spike is Angel's brother. That is how I view their relationship. I cheered when Angel referred to Spike as a champion that is equal to him. That is how I see him. He is a champion. He has a role in the battle between good and evil. I am thrilled that he is in L.A. If you are looking for Spike to be the lead character, then you are going to be disappointed. As pointed out earlier, the show is about Angel. However, the addition of Spike is another facet of Angel's life. It isn't a bad thing. His role on ANGEL is different that that on BUFFY because he has evolved since "Chosen". He is fighting the fight because it is right and not simply to impress the girl. I wouldn't want Angel to be fighting the fight for a girl either. It would demean him. Angel is the most compelling character in all of Jossverse. His story of redemption is the one that drew me in and hooked me. If he were to be doing it all for the sake of impressing Buffy I would be angry. He is more than Buffy. He is Angel and the same is true for Spike. He is Spike. He isn't Spike (the lovestruck whipping boy for Buffy). I am glad he is finally free to be the champion that I have known he was. Angel has had that chance for a few years now. Now it is Spike's turn. Hopefully there will be a 6th season to see more of it.

kdeweb | March 16, 23:52 CET

Sad as I am about the end of Angel...I hope that James gets a terrific offer soon. This guy really deserves it, and his talent speaks for itself. The man is phenomenal and I think writers and producers will be banging on his door before long.If Joss is smart he will keep in touch as well.
I will be thrilled to watch James in any kind of role,
but he will forever be Spike for me....no other character has ever, and I mean ever, moved me the way Spike did. I just pray it works out well in the end for Spike and James alike. I think a lot of fans will riot if it doesn't. Thanks for everything James...you rule!!!!!

kathylovesspike | March 16, 23:58 CET

Love is a source of inspiriation. Love encourges us to be better than we ever imagined we could be.

Falling in love is one of the worlds best catalysts for changing someone's nature.

What happened to Spike with Buffy is one of the worlds best miracles. Why should her teaching him something be a bad thing?

He taught her as well--'Buffy shame on you--why does a man do what he mustn't? For her, to be hers..."

It should be written on a flag and flown.

The favorite way for men to control each other is to call another fellow 'pussywhipped.' It's tried and tested and it works. I think this is where they might be leading. Dismissing his experience as something to 'get over'. Instead of something that made him a better man.

Why not a scene instead where Spike talks with someone Fred or even Wesley about the insanity of requited love?

That is the development I'm talking about. Dealing with issues that are real for end of season 7 Spike.

Obviously it's a personal bias, something I personally would prefer to see. And when one doesn't see what one wants...then of course ME looks like they're doing it wrong.

Also the very, very bad acting James does in ATS5 has to be clue to something--I admit that my theory may be comepletely off base--but does anybody have another?

Was he just burned out? Tired of develing into emotions? Maybe.
But him not being present made it SEEM like the character was not being developed. Or that he had nothing from the script to grab onto so he could make specific choices.

So I tried to follow the bad acting back to a reason...just a theroy. Not Thereom.

BforBeth | March 17, 00:38 CET

Spike waxing poetic about unrequited love isn't development, though. Development implies that it would be something new and character-altering, even in a small way. It's nothing he hasn't done beore. It's redundant.

weatherby | March 17, 00:49 CET

I personally don't get the "bad acting" thing. I think James has done an excellent job (as always) in Angel Season 5 and see none of the lapses in quality that you're seeing, isa.

ringworm | March 17, 00:57 CET

It's also very possible that the writers aren't used to writing Spike.

Not that I think the acting is bad, but I have seen a character change. But we have to remember he's with Angel now. He's always acted differently with him than with anyone else. We see bits of the sweet Spikey with Fred, but she's the only female around anymore(Harmony SO doesn't count). He's among men and he has to seem 'tough'. He'd never want to look vulnerable in front of Angel(even though they've both had their moments).

I prefer my Spike to be tough on the outside and soft on the inside, but I wanna be able to SEE the softness. We haven't really gotten any of that this season. We've gotten introspection, which I appreciate, but I always saw Spike as a romantic figure, and we don't have any of that. It's fine, because I don't think he should be defined by the women in his life, but the girl in me still wants to see it..... :(

Rogue Slayer | March 17, 01:26 CET

ringworm - you are so right! JM's acting has been phenomenal as always.

Rogue Slayer - I understand what you are saying. I miss that side of Spike too. But, when you think of it, it was always Buffy that brought that side out of him, so now that Buffy isn't there anymore, he hides that softer side under a tough exterior. But we do still get glimpses of it now and again.

I am loving the "family relationship" between Angel and Spike. I don't know how people can say that there has been no character development with all that going on.

I hope that JM gets some fantastic roles after AtS finishes. I will watch him, thats for sure. But I am going to miss Spike.

cal | March 17, 01:55 CET

I think JM has had to adjust his acting to the cast of Angel a bit. On the whole the acting there seems more quiet, more 'mature' than on Buffy, where the actors were a little more histrionic. If JM were to start hamming it up like he did on BtVS, he'd stick out like a sore thumb.

I didn't want Spike on Angel (just got really really tired of the character in S6/7, like him a lot in the earlier seasons), but now that he's there, I'm ok with it and it's working better than I would have thought.

Caroline | March 17, 02:18 CET

I think JM has had to adjust his acting to the cast of Angel a bit. On the whole the acting there seems more quiet, more 'mature' than on Buffy, where the actors were a little more histrionic. If JM were to start hamming it up like he did on BtVS, he'd stick out like a sore thumb.


And let's not forget, Buffy was primarily a girl cast. I mean, besides Spike, the manliest guy on that show was Giles, and(as much as I love him) that's not saying much. Now James is on a cast full of males. The dynamic is bound to be different.

Rogue Slayer | March 17, 04:32 CET

I've got to say I agree with most of what the article writer said.

forcorreo | March 17, 05:20 CET

More to add- there is no argument that Spike needs more screen time. No one save for Angel this season has gotten more screen time, or been more important overall, than Spike, and anyone should be able to see that. The article-writer explicitly states that that is not what she means to say, and I think it's a mistake to read that meaning into her words. I know most of you haven't said this but I've read a few comments here and there that do say or imply it.

forcorreo | March 17, 06:14 CET

Some of James Marsters best acting moments were in the Spike and Buffy scenes, he showed how he could say so much with just his eyes. But those were romantic scenes, and, although he's a great actor all around, that's were the "soft on the inside" was shown the best. There obviously hasn't been a chance for much of that because they haven't given Spike a romance this season, it would've been too soon after Buffy. And, not that it was leading to romance, he did have some nice moments with Fred but now that Fred is gone we aren't going to see it with her either. We can't expect him to be playing the same guy he was in season seven of Buffy because everything has changed for him. His character has grown even more. He got his soul to impress Buffy but when he got it, he realized it was much more than that. The souless Spike was selfish and wanted Buffy no matter what. The new Spike could love her even though she didn't feel the same. He sacrificed himself to do the right thing and it wasn't just because of Buffy.

And after all that he finds himself initially stuck with Angel and having to depend on Angel's team to save him and he resents it. But he deals with it and eventually sticks around again, because it's the right thing to do. Spike being alive has given his character more a chance to grow, and Angel's too. They both are discovering more about themselves by being together and being forced to work together. They are realizing they are more alike than different. They are realizing that they really are the only family either one of them will ever have. I do think the writers, in the beginning, did have to learn to write for Spike but they seem to be getting better. There's still a lot of story left to tell with six episodes left to air. There is still time to see the softer side of Spike and Angel for that matter too.

Firefly Flanatic | March 17, 06:50 CET

After having some time to think about it, there's more I want to say, to make my perspective a little clearer, for what it's worth. First of all, it's not like a think Spike has been a complete waste of space this season, or that he's completely sucked or anything. It's not that I don't think he's had his good moments, or that the writers have made a complete mess of his character development or anything like that. I don't curse at the screen, angry that they're not doing what I want them to with the character. And in fact, I am still interested in and excited about, to a degree, what they will do with Spike and Angel in these last few episodes. But I would be lying if I said that I didn't, on occasion, feel sad that Spike's story didn't end with Chosen...

forcorreo | March 17, 15:00 CET

I agree with alot of what this article has said because I have very much felt the same way all season. I must also note that it seems the summery given by brob1 about the article ("This writer truly believes that Spike should have remained dead.") gives the false impression that the person just doesn't want to see him (and may remind people of the Salon one which may as well have said "I was uncool in high school and still can't get over it therefor I want to see 22 year old characters still complaining about it and a guy with a black coat just ruins my plans") when, in fact, s/he cares about him deeply.

I think it is important to remember that the article was about the disappointment in how Spike is being portrayed this season, not screentime or lack of (as the person clearly states as to avoid "Spike is taking over the show/this person wants Spike to tak eover the show!" from those who feel threatened by his popularity). I, again, understand this disappointment and it goes back to befor the season started.

To make this clear, let's remember that Joss Whedon said that they were going to bring Spike back in a way as to not negate the dignity of his sacrifice (perhaps it was in TV Guide Online?). Many people (but not all) felt that seeing him as a ghost did just that and tuned out. Now one thing nobody can deny is the fact that in "Just Rewards", the flashback to "Chosen" omitts a crucial scene in not only the episode, but Spike's development which is when he says "no you don't, but thanks for saying it" after Buffy says I love you. That right there is totally a reconstruct of the character (and, in turn, a deconstruct of what he had been through) which was likely done so they can have the horrid not-a-triangle.

Just to add insult to injury, everytime Angel would make one of his (border-line whiney) self-righteous accusations/claims, Spike would simply fade away instead of actualy responding and sticking up for himself (a huge contrast to what development in him we saw in BtVS Season 7, esp. LMPTM). That has ahppened in "Just Rewards" and "Unleashed" (not to mention a similar situation in "Destiny" where Spike just punches Angel out of anger, though I think I understand why he did that, that it goes deeper.)

Behind the scenes, we have heard the writers going on about how Spike now represents the "jealous little brother" who wants everything Angel has (Bell and Fury have confirmed as much). That in itself cheapens (or "waters down") everything that is/was so deep about this character: he only wants what Angel wants.
Even James Marsters has commented on the change in Spike. However, he likes playing him as an "insensitive jerk". :shrugs:
Yes, I know that actors don't always have a grip on what is going down (however, they do know changes in characters they play), but at the Wolfram and Hart Rev., David Fury commented that he was "aware of the criticism" of the way Spike was being portrayed, admitted the regression but commented that writing him a certain way gets "boring".

I have to agree with Rouge Slayer's suggestion that the writers are not used to writting for Spike because that is the only explaination for the constant "bloodie"s (especialy when it comes to Craft and Fain who have, in fact, NEVER written for him) and other British slang that was overused in the early episodes of the season. The sad thing is that it isn't Spike, it isn't James Marsters, but the writers who do this and make him resemble some cartoon character.

I know that Spike has been forced back into this world against his will with a bunch of strangers (and Angel at an evil law firm, no less) and forced to endure so much uncertainty as to why he is back so of course he isn't going to be all cuddely-wuddely. I get that and it would, in fact, be unconvincing had he been like that given the environment and situation he is in, but at the same time, there is a point where you have to balance things out a bit, where you have to NOT regress the character.

Lately I have to say he has been more like the Spike I know. Hopefuly, that won't end up being "too little, too late" (in a way it is since the show is cancelled), and I won't eat my words.

Honestly, Caroline, I think Marsters's acting is fine and always has been (he and Alexis Denisof are tops in the Buffyverse). He has often commented on Spike being very much like a 17 year old, to a passionate punker without alot of common sence and he has done that well.

However, back to the article, I was excited that Spike was going to AtS when I first heard about it because I thought that we would see who Spike is now, how he deals. That is not what I got. Had I known he was only going to be brought back to be a "jealous little brother" for Angel, have his development negated for a triangle that probably won't even happen and many people seem to be against, be made to sound like a cartoon character, and, well, pretty much be watered down (because they didn't have to do that. He could be fine as a supporting character without being the above mentioned), I would have said "let him rest in peace" not because I don't like him, but because I care about the character too much to actualy want to see that happen to him had I any foreknowledge of it.

[ edited by NirvanaPunk on 2004-03-20 20:59 ]

NirvanaPunk | March 20, 22:38 CET