May 06 2014
(SPOILER)
Discuss Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 1x21 "Ragtag".
This episode was written by Jeffrey Bell and directed by Roxann Dawson. It's the penultimate episode for this season.
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Nebula1400 | May 06, 15:48 CET
roddikinathome | May 06, 15:49 CET
Nebula1400
*Eyeroll*
Goober. :)
roddikinathome | May 06, 15:51 CET
Nebula1400 | May 06, 15:53 CET
Nebula1400 | May 06, 15:56 CET
Agent | May 06, 15:58 CET
roddikinathome | May 06, 16:00 CET
Squishy | May 06, 16:02 CET
*Jailbreak*
roddikinathome | May 06, 16:04 CET
Squishy | May 06, 16:07 CET
Valantha | May 06, 16:10 CET
They can hear me through the screen.
[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2014-05-07 01:12 ]
Nebula1400 | May 06, 16:11 CET
Squishy | May 06, 16:13 CET
Squishy | May 06, 16:13 CET
Nebula1400 | May 06, 16:14 CET
Squishy | May 06, 16:14 CET
roddikinathome | May 06, 16:14 CET
floofypooh | May 06, 16:17 CET
Squishy | May 06, 16:18 CET
roddikinathome | May 06, 16:18 CET
Squishy
It looked kewl!
roddikinathome | May 06, 16:20 CET
Nebula1400 | May 06, 16:20 CET
javelina | May 06, 16:21 CET
Squishy | May 06, 16:21 CET
roddikinathome | May 06, 16:22 CET
Loving this old school spy stuff and low-tech debriefing. A real nice contrast to the early season and the holotable.
Valantha | May 06, 16:22 CET
Squishy | May 06, 16:23 CET
roddikinathome | May 06, 16:27 CET
Nebula1400 | May 06, 16:32 CET
Agent | May 06, 16:33 CET
Valantha | May 06, 16:33 CET
Squishy | May 06, 16:34 CET
Nebula1400 | May 06, 16:34 CET
[ edited by roddikinathome on 2014-05-07 01:35 ]
roddikinathome | May 06, 16:34 CET
Squishy | May 06, 16:34 CET
Agent | May 06, 16:35 CET
Agent | May 06, 16:36 CET
Nebula1400 | May 06, 16:36 CET
Nebula1400 | May 06, 16:37 CET
Nebula1400 | May 06, 16:39 CET
roddikinathome | May 06, 16:42 CET
roddikinathome | May 06, 16:43 CET
Agent | May 06, 16:43 CET
javelina | May 06, 16:44 CET
Agent
Phil however, is still prolly screwed.
roddikinathome | May 06, 16:45 CET
Nebula1400 | May 06, 16:46 CET
ETA: You are!
[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2014-05-07 01:49 ]
Nebula1400 | May 06, 16:48 CET
Squishy | May 06, 16:49 CET
[ edited by Valantha on 2014-05-07 01:49 ]
Valantha | May 06, 16:49 CET
javelina
Ooooooo, you're evil.
roddikinathome | May 06, 16:50 CET
If Fitz and/or Simmons also go, however, I am going to be waaay unhappy.
javelina | May 06, 16:51 CET
Nebula1400 | May 06, 16:53 CET
Nebula1400 | May 06, 16:55 CET
mischievouspixi | May 06, 16:55 CET
javelina | May 06, 16:56 CET
Nebula1400 | May 06, 16:57 CET
Squishy | May 06, 17:00 CET
Valantha | May 06, 17:01 CET
Also, how are they wrapping this up in one episode?
mischievouspixi | May 06, 17:02 CET
Squishy | May 06, 17:03 CET
Nebula1400 | May 06, 17:03 CET
The big questions though for me is what of Fitz/Simmons(I wonder if Ward actually was saving them) and what has Garrett become?
[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2014-05-07 02:05 ]
Buffyfantic | May 06, 17:04 CET
Valantha | May 06, 17:05 CET
Agent | May 06, 17:08 CET
Darkness | May 06, 17:09 CET
And what better way for a high-tech weapons manufacturer to make mega-profits, than to create fear and a justification for the use of those weapons (or super soldiers)?
Nebula1400 | May 06, 17:10 CET
mischievouspixi
This just in: Genndy Tartakofsky to write and direct Sce 2; Ep o1.
roddikinathome | May 06, 17:10 CET
Squishy | May 06, 17:10 CET
Darkness | May 06, 17:11 CET
Sunfire | May 06, 17:15 CET
But poor Simmons must be having some flashbacks to F.T.T.Z.
Valantha | May 06, 17:23 CET
So. OK. They're not going to kill FitzSimmons, not like this. They're not going to kill Coulson AGAIN, because that would be ridiculous. But either Ward or Garrett has to go down next week, right? Will Coulson or Fury pull the trigger?
Also (and I admit this is of concern to no one except me), I will be in the ruralest rural Southwest next Tuesday and will have no internet access and no way to hang with y'all. So let me say what a pleasure it's been. This is the first show where I've really had a chance to comment alongside the other Whedonesquers, and it is so great. I'll post after the episode, once I make it to the local library, but I'll miss y'all.
[ETA - Yes, I am going to the Sandbox.]
[ edited by javelina on 2014-05-07 02:37 ]
javelina | May 06, 17:32 CET
AndrewCrossett | May 06, 17:36 CET
Agent | May 06, 17:39 CET
Nebula1400 | May 06, 17:39 CET
Squishy | May 06, 17:41 CET
Agent | May 06, 17:43 CET
AndrewCrossett | May 06, 17:45 CET
WheelsOfJoy | May 06, 17:46 CET
Nebula1400 | May 06, 18:06 CET
Dusk | May 06, 18:08 CET
[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2014-05-07 03:17 ]
Nebula1400 | May 06, 18:16 CET
On the plus side, I liked the Fitz/Trip bonding moment (complete w/ Simmons grinning approval), the old school Commando equipment was cute, and the Cybertek scene was good for a smile
But 2 Pet Peeves reared their heads in the same episode.
1) NOW's the time to start with intriguing Skye storyline? The show was guilty early on of throwing out threads that would pay off down the road. With only .an episode to go I'd of used that time to amp up the pace of the hunt and not lay groundwork for Season 2. Unless they plan the big reveal at the ending of next week's episode and let it hang there all summer, but that could be done without the regurge of the Chinese village story etc.
2) Evil Ward is now Boring Evil Ward. It's seems to me with the clunky "Ward is bad" dialogue we're being set up for a redeeming moment for Ward that will serve as a "twist". For weeks Ward and Garrett have been testy, now we learn Ward's not really to blame, he just fell under the tutelage of a psycho ... but he can't be THAT bad because he couldn't bring himself to shoot the dog. If movie prequels have taught us anything, trying to "explain" the evil usually dilutes it. They bring Ward back as a "good guy", complete with Fitz beaming out "I told you he was good!" and I'll officially check out
Here's hoping they have a couple big moments still up their sleeves that are on par with the last 6-8 episodes.
TallMichaelJ | May 06, 18:26 CET
BringItOn5x5 | May 06, 18:26 CET
Dusk | May 06, 18:26 CET
Unless Ward pulled a fast one and put a GPS beacon on the crate before ejecting it, or something of the sort, so that Coulson's team could find them. Which is a possibility. I'm pretty sure that if that control panel could eject the crate, it could also have opened the door to it.
AndrewCrossett | May 06, 18:47 CET
I found it interesting that Ward wasn't forthcoming with the info on Skye after he found out. That said, I hope he isn't brought back as a happy-go-lucky vigilante.
Nebula1400 | May 06, 18:50 CET
And then things the cast have hinted at in the meantime made it sound like the same scene (or some revised version of it) would be appearing in the finale. And now we know it's a box in the ocean! Which is actually even more dire than I'd expected.
Sunfire | May 06, 18:54 CET
Not sure that's a hard/fast rule, but I think that was Garrett behind the scope anyway. Ward said that caring about Fitzsimmons was a weakness, echoing Garrett's questions. Ward showed weakness with Buddy, so Garrett put him down. Ward got rid of Fitzsimmons so they could be rescued, so that Garrett couldn't put them down, too.
Don't misunderstand, I think trying to make Ward not evil again at this juncture is super lame, but that seems to be the direction it's going.
Either way, Ward didn't kill Buddy.
Agent | May 06, 19:02 CET
Nebula1400 | May 06, 19:16 CET
AndrewCrossett | May 06, 19:20 CET
On the plus side, I'm a little curious about Skye's monster parents. Maybe they'll find time to get to that in the last episode.
Squishy | May 06, 19:26 CET
ETA: Garrett may have killed the dog to keep Ward fearful of him, and thus in his control.
[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2014-05-07 04:43 ]
Nebula1400 | May 06, 19:39 CET
If they're going to do the redemption pathway for Ward, I'd sort of like to see him, Mike, and Raina form a small team of former villains trying to set things straight. Coulson et al wouldn't trust them, but maybe they could come into conflict with Season 2's villain--maybe Quinn? He's setting himself up pretty well.
PaperSpock | May 06, 20:10 CET
Pudungurte | May 06, 20:31 CET
The whole thing felt like pantomime and the only actor that realises it is Bill Paxton.
Kaan | May 06, 21:42 CET
http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/marvels-agents-shield-ragtag-204322
Simon | May 06, 21:54 CET
Shapenew | May 06, 22:25 CET
If that is true, then he is not only evil, but a coward.
Penthos | May 07, 04:39 CET
I kind of hope they don't do that with Ward. We're conditioned to think that when we get flashbacks and details on what made the bad guy bad, it's a prelude to turning him good. But Whedon shows have always been about twisting audience expectations.
AndrewCrossett | May 07, 05:11 CET
-The dynamic of Garrett making him harm those he wants to protect like Buddy, Fitz/Simmons, etc. echoes the dynamic of his older brother making him harm is younger brother.
-The whole Hand inviting Ward to lock Garrett up, then offering him the opportunity to kill him seemed convoluted. Unless it was used as a way to plant Ward with Garrett and earn his trust. Too bad Hand had to sacrifice her LMD for the con to work.
-Making his own team believe he is Hydra is the perfect way to help sell the con to Garrett.
garyyager | May 07, 05:45 CET
I too found that whole thing to be odd/contrived at the time. However, I don't think it means Ward is a triple agent. He definitely murdered Koenig in cold blood as well as who knows how many people at the Fridge. He's also had the opportunity to kill or let Garrett die on at least two occasions now.
If he is triple, it's a hell of a long Con and must have a pretty important objective/end game if it's not to Kill Garrett.
Penthos | May 07, 05:57 CET
If the show could pull off a convincing triple agency twist, I'll be pretty impressed.
[ edited by Squishy on 2014-05-07 15:11 ]
Squishy | May 07, 06:08 CET
[ edited by garyyager on 2014-05-07 15:25 ]
garyyager | May 07, 06:22 CET
As to this annoying Ward backstory ... Attempts to explain the "why" almost always fail for me. Who's more interesting, the Darth Vader of the first Star Wars movies, who is a dark menacing Sith Lord (whatever that was) capable of destroying planets, or the Darth Vader of the prequels who lost his mom, lost his wife, and was manipulated into being bad?
I'm much more pulled into a character by the traits they display and how those traits bounce/conflict with others than the history lesson of why those traits came to be
Here's my finale wish list / prediction within the confines of what we've been given to work with: Flowers betrays Garrett, Garrett kills her. Deathlok also betrays Garrett, and in the fight, and is heroically killed or at least knocked out of commission. Koenig is ONLY shown in flashback, because if he is still alive I'll be annoyed. Coulson takes down an already wounded Garrett. Ward tries to step in, tries to be good and fails, Skye puts him down using her revealed baby monster powers. Episode closes on a WTF look from Skye and team as to what she just did.
TallMichaelJ | May 07, 06:25 CET
My prediction for the second season after some hints this week, is that Raina will be the big baddie. They will show whatever she has in common with Skye, and they will fight against each other. Of course, my history with predictions is that 90% of the time I'm wrong :-)
end_of_the_world_optimist | May 07, 07:02 CET
Nebula1400 | May 07, 07:31 CET
About Ward, I thought this episode was great for his character. Brett Dalton can actually act! However I do think the set up for his redemption is too soon and too damn obvious with the crumby dialogue between FitzSimmons inside that pod they got flushed out of by Ward.
I think if this show wants to up the risks and keep the excitement high they should actually keep Ward evil and then kill him eventually. Joss Whedon shows shouldn't be afraid to stake people.
[ edited by ChosenOne5376 on 2014-05-07 16:43 ]
ChosenOne5376 | May 07, 07:43 CET
Ragondux | May 07, 11:19 CET
>> then offering the opportunity to kill him seemed convoluted.
Exactly, Victoria Hand on AoS was portrayed as the ultimate "all SHIELD rules must be completely followed to the letter and all forms completely filled out in triplicate."
Then suddenly she is letting POW's under her control get crossed off? No. To say nothing of the lost intel from Garrett. - No. -
Although,
I could easily see her giving Garrett 500,000 volts
of battery powered, joy-buzzer twixt his nethers.
Since that comes directly from the Nick Fury playbook,
she would be OK with it.
RobynH | May 07, 11:46 CET
Whedonage | May 07, 12:45 CET
I missed the ep. "Heroes" reference pertaining to regenerative properties?
KingofCretins | May 07, 12:55 CET
I liked a lot of the character moments in the episode. But I didn't like the implication that killing or not killing the dog would sort of indicate whether Ward's truly evil or not. This may have something to do with the fact that I hate dogs - I was hoping young Ward would be snacking on a McBuddy whenever we would see him after the first scene in the woods - but no, I found this whole bit too forced as the moral mirror I got the impression it was supposed to be.
However, I liked how it was left ambiguous to what truly happened in the end:
-It could be that Ward didn't kill the dog, was looking him run off through the sniper rifle and still didn't kill him.
-It could be that Ward didn't kill him but Garrett took him out with the sniper rifle instead.
-It could be that Ward was too 'weak' to kill the dog up close and personal, but still followed his orders and took the sniper rifle as an alternative means.
It might be nice if they left this to be ambiguous, otherwise I'm mostly hoping for the third option... I'd prefer Ward to be really evil and not to have everything end in this sacrificial attempt at redemption that many already started predicting once Ward was revealed as Hydra.
I thought the scene with Ward and FitzSimmons was mostly a strong scene for Fitz: for his disbelieve in Ward being evil and his desperate reach for Ward's friendship and compassion. I think it's only natural for someone on the team, especially Fitz, to respond to Ward's betrayal in this way.
I believe I've often found myself agreeing with TallMichaelJ but I didn't find this episode suffering from those weaknesses he described above. I appreciated the Skye origin subplot surfacing again. It hadn't come up in a while but it seems logical that they'd still go into it for the finale, I thought they did a good job at tying it to Garrett's operation. I like those suggestions made by some of you above that Skye and Rayna might be Inhumans instead of Kree! (I'm personally still hoping for something related to the character Mantis - except maybe if that would mean for Skye to suddenly start referring to herself as 'this one'.)
Despite my issues with the dog scene, I did appreciate some insight into Ward's past and I didn't think that they lessened his evilness because of it. In my opinion they actually did make him more understandable. I do like it when they manage to show where villains are coming from and why they are doing what they do, I think they pulled it off well enough here, by showing some glimpses (and not the full story, like what happened with him burning down the house).
The young Ward actor played him well but I didn't think he looked like a younger version of Brett Dalton. When the episode opened I first thought they got Donnie 'Blizzard' Gill back in. And was he supposed to be too young to have facial hair growth or did he still keep his shaving gear for his stay in the woods? He looked way to tidy after having been there for as long as he was.
Valentijn | May 07, 13:11 CET
My take was Ward couldn't kill the dog. Garrett was keeping an eye on him from a (sniper) distance to see if he could do it. When he didn't he used Ward's rifle to put an end to Buddy
I do think they could have gone with a slightly younger actor for early Ward. The stakes would be heightened a bit if he was 12 and setting his house on fire/surviving in woods, plus the visual wouldn't have been as distracting ... easier to reconcile the look if the age gap was wider
@Valentijn "this one" would love a Skye-is-Mantis reveal! Season 2 focusing on a Celestial Madonna arc would be trippy. Hell, make Ward the Swordsman while they're at it
TallMichaelJ | May 07, 13:18 CET
Penthos | May 07, 15:08 CET
I’ll start with the negative. Honestly, I found that this episode slacked on the details. Here are some of the more distracting elements:
1. May and Coulson did not try and find a computer anywhere in the Cybertech building to upload the activation for the Trojan horse. I get that the files were important to the flow of the episode but I kept waiting for Skye to say “FIND ANY USB DRIVE. ANY. GO TO THE CAFETERIA. FIND A CASH REGISTER.”
2. The zip line from the 4th floor was anchored in a ceiling tile. Right in the middle of the unsupported tile.
3. Garrett’s story about surviving a major gun shot wound to the gut with duct tape, if true, was awful. I know he’s given to hyperbole, and I hope he’s lying because otherwise – unconvincing and poorly delivered back story element.
4. The agents happily decided to fly into Havana CUBA with no discussion about international air space, subverting radar, or the fact that their Shield, status which may have given them access before Hydra, surely doesn’t now. I know the agents have flown lots of places this year. I guess given my country’s history with Cuba and now that Hydra owns Shield, I needed a little more info on how they did this.
5. Rania did not wear gloves when she was digging around in Garrett. And she had no ickiness on her flowery shift.
I did enjoy a lot of the episode. So here is what I liked.
1. I enjoyed Trip’s bag of tricks once I got over the convenient locale of his grandmother. I especially liked the laser cigarettes and the quarter walkie talkies. This stuff will prove useful for a bit longer I suspect.
2. May and Skye’s interaction over Ward was meaningful for me. May is a cold killer and she’s not going to be emotional. I thought it struck the right chord.
3. Garrett’s interactions with Deathlok were priceless. The show is obviously building up poor Mike Peterson to go exponential on his ass. I don’t think Coulson will be able to stop him. I just hope he doesn’t die.
4. The FitzSimmon dump rocked. Everyone nailed the scene. I especially love how Fitz told Ward that he “cares” about them. Ward admits that he does and adds it’s a weakness and throws them off the bus. I don’t see how Ward can come back from that. He knows he cares about them and because of these feelings he attempts to kill them.
So it was a mixed bag. I guess my expectations were a little higher due to the last run of eps where little quirks didn’t bother me. I think when the story is really really good then odd story choices don’t really distract me. I have to say the story could have been better.
Thanks for reading my essay.
hann23 | May 07, 15:18 CET
As for flying into Cuba, they're vigilantes. By definition, everything they're doing is illegal. No need to worry about violating Cuba's airspace when they don't even have legal permission to fly over America.
Jason_M_Bryant | May 07, 16:06 CET
bleefb | May 07, 16:49 CET
My problem with flying into Cuba was that they didn't even at a minimum say "hey, do you think we might get shot at, maybe run into military? ", especially since for all Cuba knows they could be Hydra.
I did enjoy the ep. I just found that I had issues that I wasn't looking for.
hann23 | May 07, 17:24 CET
Nope, candidate for the best line of the season
Nameless Toady: "HAIL HYDRA!!!"
Garrett: "Put your arms down, you look like a West Texas Cheerleader."
RobynH | May 07, 18:18 CET
Nebula1400 | May 07, 18:51 CET
We don't yet know what Coulson told him before he busted out Garrett.
Plus, just b/c Ward shot Hand doesn't mean she is dead...ICER (sleepy sleep).
Stupendous | May 07, 19:45 CET
First Ward shot two other agents. I just freeze framed and we can see holes in their heads. That wasn't an icer gun.
He shot her. She fell to the ground and moaned. He put two more bullets in her. Garret looked up from her body and smiled, so he was directly watching and would have noticed anything odd.
She's very dead. At least as much as the regular amount of dead. She's "does anyone have a blue alien around here?" dead.
[ edited by Jason_M_Bryant on 2014-05-08 07:47 ]
Jason_M_Bryant | May 07, 22:45 CET
lostinthis | May 08, 02:11 CET
Maybe the writers thought having Hill and Hand was too confusing.
I just really want to find out what Coulson told Ward beforehand.
Stupendous | May 08, 03:41 CET
Jason_M_Bryant | May 08, 05:22 CET
Squishy | May 08, 05:59 CET
I agree that Simmons is hiding something, but what interests me is when she said "I'm getting better" in regards to lying. It was just then that she started acting sort of flirty with Tripp. The show runners and Elizabeth Henridge have insisted that Simmons has motherly or sisterly feeling for Fitz. And then I thought of the TVLine May Spoilers Scorecard, where it mentioned that several relationships were going to fall apart because of someone coming out.
So, my theory: I think Simmons is gay. I think Fitz will admit her feelings and she will let him down by coming out. She may also be in love with Skye, but I don't know.
Also, she is very similar to Willow.
RoguePirateBunny | May 08, 19:39 CET
QingTing | May 08, 20:21 CET
Beth | May 09, 03:20 CET
Pardon me but
does anyone have any Blue Alien?
how about Grey Poupon?
RobynH | May 09, 10:31 CET
Sunfire | May 09, 11:46 CET
In another seen shortly after, Fitz and Tripp are standing outside Skye's hospital room container thingy and Tripp mentions something about how some people surprise you. Ostensibly, they were talking about Skye but I believe that while Tripp clearly thinking about Fitz, Fitz may have really been thinking about Skye and how surprised she is to fell like she does.
[ edited by Penthos on 2014-05-12 16:50 ]
Penthos | May 12, 07:48 CET