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September 04 2014

Buffy and Avengers endings: unrealistic, but great anyway? io9's Charlie Jane Anders counts down ten moments from film and TV that she feels were unrealistic if given the critical/logical eye but still forgive for how great she feels they are despite that. "Chosen" hits #8 and The Avengers lands at #3.

And "The Avengers" is number 3.
juut as various people have pointed out, the final victory depends on a telepathic teleconference among Buffy, Willow and Xander, something they never seemed to be able to do before.


Isn't that Showtime rather than Chosen? And whilst I don't look for dogme in what I watch, do the endings work in the context of the show and movie. I'd say yes (apart Sunnydale being in the middle of a desert rather than beside the sea).
Not to mention the telepathy thing was introduced in the first episode of Season 6. "Great googly-moogly, Willow, would you quit doing that?"

[ edited by bivith on 2014-09-05 09:54 ]
The point about the amulet is somewhat accurate, but the writer didn't tell the whole story. As we know, the amulet was given to Angel by Wolfram & Hart. W&H had a personal stake in taking down The First Evil in order to fulfill their own apocalyptic prophecy later. They manipulated Angel into bringing the amulet to Sunnydale. You can call that head canon, but it's extremely heavily implied if you read between the lines.

In the grand scheme of things, the battle between the Slayers and Turok-Han vampires was kind of pointless, but it's worth noting that none of the Scoobies or Angel knew if/how the amulet would work. In the end, it was a bit of a deus ex machina (same with the Scythe), but "Chosen" was still very fulfilling on an emotional level. After all, Buffy the Vampire Slayer is really the story about a girl growing up- the supernatural elements are just icing on the cake.

[ edited by libradude on 2014-09-05 10:30 ]
I'd tweak "Chosen" a little bit in that it was stupid-pointless to go into the Hellmouth before Willow's spell worked, and also that I agree with James Marsters that Spike should have gone down fighting. Make it an amulet that gives him superpowers (well, even more superpowers) but burns him up from the inside out, that would have worked.

Emotionally, however? Yup. Fantastic finish.
The issue with the previously quasi invincible Turok-Han always bothered me and Joss basically gives it no importance in his DVD commentary; but I felt like he wanted to wrap the Slayer story and give an uplifting emotional resolution to the series and in that he thoroughly succeeded.

ETA: "No you don't, but thanks for saying it".

[ edited by KissingToast on 2014-09-05 15:12 ]
The Turok-Han do seem to suffer from the Conservation of Ninjitsu (succinctly stated: one ninja in a movie is invincible, but an army of ninjas in a movie are cannon fodder). But now that I think about it, I actually think that fighting them so easily in "Chosen" makes perfect sense in the context of the show. Time and time again, Buffy loses to some demon or vamp when she's emotionally weak, then comes back emotionally stronger and clobbers it. She explicitly tells Kendra that her emotions give her power. For evidence: Luke, the Master, Spike (between "School Hard" and "What's My Line"), the Judge, Angel(us), Sunday from "The Freshman," even Adam and Glory to an extent, Olaf in a rather more humorous version, Caleb, and in fact the first Turok-Han itself. Buffy was perfectly capable of beating the Ubervamp once her heart was in it.

So the Chosen Crowd, riding a serious emotional high, could totally wipe the floor with some Turok-Han. But not all, and, as I recall, the vamps did start to win before Spike set their world on fire. I agree with the original author that the amulet was rather convenient.
Actually wasn't the telepathy first introduced in The Gift with Willow and Spike?
Yes. Willow used telepathy in The Gift. The weakness in using it in Season 7 was that it wasn't used more.

The new slayers were fighting like hell, but they weren't necessarily winning. Many of them died. Anya died. Many were injured quite badly, including Buffy. The slayers also had a lot more training by that point, than they did when first encountering the Turok Han.

As for the amulet, I was fine with the explanation in Angel. It was an interesting way to bring Spike back, and bring back Lindsey as well.

They may have been weak spots, but not really all that significant in the scheme of things.
I think my biggest issue with season seven is it never clearly said what the firsts plan was exactly. Did it want to become solid again, which I think it mentioned in Touched, or did it want to inhabit every living being which I think it mentioned at some point as well. So basically like what Jasmine did?

Also dawn killed a Turok Han by slashing it's stomach. That was too muc for me like huh? I liked to think somehow Turok Han shared some communal power and maybe one is stronger alone, many of them frond would have diluted their strength.
There are a lot of interesting Buffy Season 7 and Angel Season 4 connections. For example, Jasmine (well, The Beast) wiped out Wolfram & Hart's offices in S4. That effectively immobilized W&H from fighting both Jasmine AND The First Evil. It was only after Jasmine was defeated that W&H was able to recoup and give the amulet to Angel to deliver to Sunnydale (which was ultimately the thing that destroyed the majority of the Turok-Han vamps). In truth, Wolfram & Hart was largely responsible for taking down The First Evil.
I can't really argue whether or not the amulet made the happy ending too easy, but IIRC the ending was a pitched battle with several components and if it wasn't the amulet that they used to bring sunlight and fire down on all the ubervamps they would have used something else. The amulet was more necessary as a way to get Spike from Sunnydale to LA and need to stick around for a while and less magical hand wavy item to save the day. At least for me.

And as for Princess Bride, the ending was perfect for all of the characters, IMO. Even nearly incapacitated Wesley was a better man than Humperdink because Humberdink was a bully and a coward and he was nothing but bluster. And Wesley knew that because he was demonstrated to be a good judge of character throughout the movie too. So it didn't feel like a cheat that he successfully sized Humperdink up and was able to beat him by bluffing. Another sword fight would have been anti climactic to me.
In truth, Wolfram & Hart was largely responsible for taking down The First Evil.

Disagree w this. Slayers would have won without the amulet, there just would have been more casualties on their side. As soon as Willows spell happened, they won. Just a matter of how much they won is where the amulet comes in
mark, that is speculation. There were still quite a few ubervamps left to kill when the Slayers were activated. The amulet destroyed a TON of them. Even if the slayers managed to win without the amulet, the casualties would have likely been catastrophic.
True I guess we won't know for sure! Although come to think if another continuity question...wouldn't the Turok Han just have burned up when they reached the surface?

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