The depressing thing is that within 50 minutes, multiple people took it upon themselves to post Felicia's home address and personal e-mail, within the blog replies. She had to turn off comments to stop that. Very sad to see her potent call for reason met with the very same scare tactics she wrote about.

inverse | October 23, 09:23 CET

A great piece - she is such a strong (and brave) writer. I'm so sorry that she immediately had to go through some of the stuff she dreaded happening if & when she wrote about GamerGate.

This GG crap has gotten so beyond out of control. I have almost no words left (beyond noting the irony of Adam Baldwin tweeting Felicia's aforementioned tumblr post himself - he who coined the term "GamerGate" and has been their voluble supporter), but a number of good articles have been written on the subject & they put it so much better than I can.

This especially from journalist Jesse Singal, adapted from an earlier reddit post, really did it for me, though - it cuts through a lot of the GG b.s.:

Gamergate Should Stop Lying to Journalists — and Itself

And of course, I note this from Joss on twitter:

"Many good people think #GamerGate is about journalism & artistic freedom. That's like working at #KlanDayKare. The name means hate, guys."

QuoterGal | October 23, 10:10 CET

I no longer consider myself a gamer, because of the people who infest GamerGate.

C.S.Strowbridge | October 23, 10:11 CET

Please can someone check with Felicia that the 'dox', reveal of her address actually happened. So far I can't find Felicia herself talking about an it anywhere.I know this sounds crazy but some of us have been trying to trace who did it and some things are very strange. Nobody in the comments on her blog reacted directly to it. Reactions should still be there even if the data was removed. I think it is possible that someone fabricated a screenshot of the 'dox' and published that.

Please lets not have Gamergate politics on this site but lets also be sure of the facts.

technovamp | October 23, 10:47 CET

She wouldn't lie about it. Or post a lot of details about something that personal and abusive. Don't fall for the idea that women are making up horrific online abuse for attention.

Sunfire | October 23, 11:03 CET

Please note. I said she hasn't said anything about it at all. That's one of the strange things.

technovamp | October 23, 11:42 CET

I'm not surprised that I haven't seen anything by Felicia herself about her getting doxxed shortly after her post (which of course doesn't mean that she hasn't mentioned it, just that I haven't seen it in any of the usual places): she made it clear in the title of her tumblr post that it was the only thing she planned to say about Gamergate. So no further remarks from her? Not odd or surprising, regardless of the fall-out.

This is what I saw on FB about it - I noticed that while I could find Felicia's tweet about her tumblr post, I couldn't find her FB post about it - it's my surmise that after it happened, she deleted the FB post in which this comment was originally made.

This also should surprise no one.

[ edited by QuoterGal on 2014-10-23 12:10 ]

QuoterGal | October 23, 11:56 CET

Thanks Quotergal. I didn't realise that her blog was also copied onto Facebook. That would explain why nothing showed up on my google searches.

technovamp | October 23, 12:25 CET

I'm not positive that she linked to her tumblr post on FB (I don't know that she copied it there, either) - it's just that those comments look like FB comments. I've seen others refer to them & her doxxing online as being in tumblr comments, but I've never seen tumblr comments that look like that. To be clear, the only thing I know for sure about it is that someone I know posted it as an image on my FB feed.

Here's a different-but-compatible version of it that I've found elsewhere online.

QuoterGal | October 23, 12:53 CET

One of the points of her tumblr post was that she was afraid to say anything precisely because of the backlash and potential for her private information being posted online. So if it did happen, anything she said in response would have just made it worse. The best thing to do if she got doxxed or if she has gotten more threats is talk to the FBI, actually.

the ninja report | October 23, 14:11 CET

C.S. Strowbridge: When you say that you no longer consider yourself a gamer, you sound like the women who don't want to be called feminists, because they think a feminist is an angry, militant, knee-jerk man-hater.

It seems obvious that you hate the sexist tropes that show up in video games, and you hate the abuse and threats of violence that break out whenever a woman criticizes a video game. If you do, then you're exactly the sort of person who should be saying, "I'm a gamer." You're just as much a gamer as any violent troll, and it's sad that the trolls have made you ashamed of something you love. The trolls are the enemy of gamer culture, and gamers need to say that, loudly. One way to do that is to say, "I'm a gamer, too, and I'm proud of it." If enough people speak out, then the trolls no longer represent gaming. You do.

Danielm80 | October 23, 14:13 CET

This is one of the strangest internet blow ups I've seen, one that has flown under the radar in any mainstream way. It's also not surprising in the least - my experience with "communities" whether they be Joss/sports/politics is that the common bound that's supposed to tie everyone together is drastically overrated. I have no doubt that if I met some of my Whedonesque co-horts IRL we'd become immediate besties forever. I also believe that some of you would drive me absolutely insane, despite our love for all things Joss

Felecia's note about crossing the street is sad but apt - when I walk into a sports bar (Go Vikings!) I make no assumptions I have anything in common with my fellow fans other than love for a sports team. When I'm gaming and in a lobby waiting for the next Halo round, I've never thought "I'm in the company of really great people who share my sense of morality and ethics"

Anyway - really well written piece by Felecia and hopefully the more people shine a light on this crew the faster they crawl back under their collective rock

TallMichaelJ | October 23, 14:23 CET

I continue to be shocked and horrified by the misogyny that is so rampant within the gaming community. I'm not a gamer myself, but it seems so counter-intuitive. I feel like the gamers are (*should be*) a part of "our" community, which I think of as being open and welcoming and ... well, Whedon-y, for the most part. So WTF??? Is it because these males are so insecure that they must try to create a bastion of manliness and then hate and abuse any female that has the temerity to trespass? Or .... WHAT?

Jocelyn | October 23, 14:24 CET

I'm not sure gamer culture needs to survive this. Do we want gamer culture at all? It seems everyone plays games now, at least on his/her phone, and when I hear someone calling himself a gamer, it's usually followed by him calling someone else a casual, a noob, or another type of fake gamer.

Ragondux | October 23, 14:30 CET

Kudos to Felicia for sticking her neck out with this brave piece. Nothing any one person does is going to eliminate the scourge of abuse and misogyny that these "gamers" are launching from the safety and anonymity of the internet, but the more good people are willing to make themselves heard, the more the "moderates" will decide they are hitched to the wrong wagon.

Class Protector | October 23, 14:45 CET

Danielm80, I get what you're saying but I think it's really apples and oranges.

I know a lot of people out there attempt to demonize feminism, but the vocal minority who think it's about hating men are consistently drowned out by the far larger number of reasonable people. And where there are those who are simply ignorant of what feminism is, I think that can be solved with education.

Within the gaming industry and culture, though, there is a rampant misogyny and toxicity and historically, the vocal minority have been people like Anita Sarkeesian, Brianna Wu, and Zoe Quinn, who have been working to change it. This is why gamergate has been shocking for a lot of people; it's the very vocal majority asserting that they want the world to stay exactly as it is, and kicking and screaming because the world refuses to comply (I know someone who can help with that, so maybe Hydra is behind gamergate?).

Gamergate is about hate, pure and simple. Hate for women, hate for feminists. And it's an extension of the many years of gaming industry and culture that has, at best, swept under the rug this horrible behavior and, at worst, perpetrated and promoted it.

Edited for grammar.

[ edited by the ninja report on 2014-10-23 14:52 ]

the ninja report | October 23, 14:50 CET

I am very impressed by Felicia Day's bravery here. I really hope that more people continue to be brave, and that those who attack, threaten, dox etc. people like Felicia for speaking out will come to their senses and recognize the damage they are doing and the wrongness of their actions.

WilliamTheB | October 23, 14:55 CET

I am a gamer and I am proud of it.
I am adamantly against #Gamergate and the hate that it brings.
I am adamantly for Felicia Day.

That is all.

chrisobrien | October 23, 14:58 CET

Im not a gamer, so this thing, really, is completely news for me. Not sure i even understand it yet. Saw an interesting interview by Adam Baldwin on it. Not that i agree or disagree with it, specially. Just interesting.

http://apgnation.com/archives/2014/09/21/7462/sides-screen-adam-baldwin-talks-integrity-journalism-transparency-gamergate

Darkness | October 23, 15:40 CET

Adam Baldwin is the _last_ source you want to go to about GG.

Or, honestly, just about anything.

KernelM | October 23, 15:51 CET

@technovamp: I appreciate that you're looking for certainty. Speaking from first-hand experience, I saw two 'personal-info' postings in Felicia's Tumblr replies. They both had address information, as well as a personal e-mail address. People immediately started replying and saying to flag those postings for abuse. And Felicia was warned on Twitter to close down the comment section for that Tumblr posting (which she did soon after). As such, all textual comments are now hidden.

There's been some chatter/speculation that the addresses posted were her publicists' address that is available via Google. But I can confirm that this was *not* that address that was posted. What was posted was a residential address. Which I assume is her home address.

Suffice to say I strongly condemn that behavior, and was glad that Felicia was able to react quickly in removing it.

inverse | October 23, 15:54 CET

Kernelm: yaeh, no, dont worry, ;)I still know too little about this subject, and will need more than just one point of view, to make any kind of judgement abouth it myself. I just tought, well, its Jayne. Dont really know much about his political and ideological views. Just tought fellow whedonites would find it interesting. :)

Darkness | October 23, 16:02 CET

I'm in a bizarre place. My teen son truly believes someone somewhere was wronged somehow in gamerville. I asked for specifics but he's very very busy with school stuff that we didn't get very far.

We only got as far as me saying that the behaviors are despicable and he's forbidden from discussing online.

I'm trying to stay more open on this so I can discuss with my son. Is there any piece or timeline that just lists all the events that led to the current situation without interpretation?

I also think seriously disturbed people are finding allies in bad places instead of getting real life help.

hann23 | October 23, 16:32 CET

I constantly wonder why Baldwin does what he does.

the ninja report | October 23, 16:36 CET

I also think seriously disturbed people are finding allies in bad places instead of getting real life help.

I think that, in a nutshell, is how a lot of destructive movements happen.

WilliamTheB | October 23, 16:44 CET

hann23, here is a pretty detailed look at what happened and when.

https://medium.com/@cainejw/a-narrative-of-gamergate-and-examination-of-claims-of-collusion-with-4chan-5cf6c1a52a60

He's right that someone was wronged, but he might be entirely incorrect as to who it might be.

Also, this: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/16/technology/gamergate-women-video-game-threats-anita-sarkeesian.html?_r=0

And if your son wants to participate in the NY Times questionnaire once he has some nuanced thoughts: http://learning.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/10/17/how-sexist-is-the-gaming-world/?module=Search&mabReward=relbias%3Aw

And if there was any doubt this was, specifically, about women - Chris Kluwe, former NFL player and very avid gamer and LGBT activist, published a ridiculously foul-mouthed (and hilarious) article tearing gamergate to pieces, and not one of them has remotely threatened him or put his home address online.

the ninja report | October 23, 16:50 CET

Thank you @the ninja report. I'll review with him. It's what I was looking for.

hann23 | October 23, 16:58 CET

We live in a world where genuine, clinical sociopaths are no longer a fringe element, but a demographic.

A growing demographic.

AndrewCrossett | October 23, 17:01 CET

I doubt they're growing in number, but they can now easily find each other and form communities. Maybe there is a business opportunity in creating Hatebook for them.

Ragondux | October 23, 17:05 CET

@inverse: I'm actually looking for an IP address. There are people who have managed to track some of the harassers down and a list of offending IP's is very helpful. Knowing which site the harassement happened on is necessary for this.

@WilliamTheB:"I also think seriously disturbed people are finding allies in bad places instead of getting real life help." That's one of the most accurate comments I've seen anywhere.

@the ninja report: I would recommend taking Chris Kule off the list. He's involved in some other controversies, including legal ones, that will just complicate things.

I think we are in danger of exchanging long lists of links. I would prefer not to do this but I'll mention one and leave it at that for this and for future posts. I would recommend everyone go and look at The alternative view moderated by a good (IMHO) Huffington Post journalist. There's a link there to a previous interview with some major players on the opposing viewpoint if you want to be sure to be balanced.

technovamp | October 23, 17:17 CET

Felicia posted the blog post to FB today, but apparently had not previously done so. She mentions the leak of personal info, too.

https://www.facebook.com/FeliciaDay/posts/10152770929510979

joni | October 23, 17:19 CET

I didn't link to Kluwe; I was just pointing out that there is still a misleading defense out there, which is "but they harass everyone" as if it's okay or makes a difference. No, this is definitely about women in video games.

My problem with the HuffPo video panel is that the women are all sticking to the idea that this is only and ever about ethics in journalism. One of them even said they don't think ideology should enter into video game journalism - why do they act like the work is in a vacuum? Why is it that people want video games to be considered art, but don't want them to be used like films and literature are, to process and understand humanity and its actions?

This started with a very strong, adverse reaction to Quinn. There was no "sex scandal" and there was no fairness levied to Quinn against these allegations, which were debunked. There is an ethics issue in the gaming industry - however, Quinn was not the right example for that. Once it was apparent she did not do what the ex-boyfriend alleged, the conversation should have shifted to actual discussion on ethics in the gaming industry. However, it did not because people were focused on Quinn as a woman.

And they're wrong that there is an objective review at all. Reviews are, by definition, not objective. Whether a game is good is totally in the eye of the reviewer, who brings his or her experience in video games to interpret whether a game is technically sound and whether it brings any value to gaming itself.

the ninja report | October 23, 17:37 CET

Here's a good explainer on Gamergate: http://www.vox.com/2014/9/6/6111065/gamergate-explained-everybody-fighting

Technovamp, I don't see an urgent need to find "balance" here. One side is women like Felicia Day being terrorized by anonymous internet sociopaths. The other side is the sociopaths and their apologists. If we were prosecutors in court, we would probably want to run down every conceivable question, like you did when you cast doubt on whether Day's personal information had actually been posted to the internet by the people attacking her. But for the purposes of parsing the big picture of what's going on here, that sort of "balance" does more to obscure the truth than to shed light on it.

[ edited by Class Protector on 2014-10-23 18:29 ]

Class Protector | October 23, 17:42 CET

Arrrrgghhhh. I have hate the notion that there is always a fair and balanced alternate view. It provides cover for the fringe and offers the notion of intellectual respectability no matter how batty the idea. Hearing these women from the video portray Gamergate as victims, despite huge stacks of actual evidence of what has been done in Gamergate's name is jaw dropping.

I actually find the whole premise of the thing absurd. What?? The news media and publishers sometimes have a cozy relationship!! All those corporate paid for press junkets, all those access star interview opportunities, all the free advance swag is supposed to generate better reviews? Astounding!

And yeah - if you don't mind the profane, Chris Kluwe is a pretty funny Twitter follow

TallMichaelJ | October 23, 17:55 CET

@the ninja report: I think I agree with all of your points. I think that link shows that there are people who deserve to be treated with reason and balanced discussion. Now there are absolutely crazies out there. The crazies are overjoyed when the moderates are excluded from discussion and are forced further and further into their camp.

If the games media would simply sign a code of ethics the crazies would have their main weapon taken away from them. The argument that bad people want us to do a good thing, so we won't do the good thing because that will be giving in to them, is a suspect one.

Go step by step. Sign the code of ethics but ask that it be extended to detail how individuals can be protected against harassement in the games media, as an example to the wider community.

Eat this elephant one bite at a time.

technovamp | October 23, 18:13 CET

This whole thing stinks of misogyny, bigotry and hate. I hope Joss has taken note of Baldwin's support because it really makes we me wish Mal had never let Jayne back in the cargo bay before breaking atmo.

Penthos | October 23, 18:52 CET

@technovamp respectfully: NO NO NO. The "moderates" in the Gamergate camp lose all credibility when they don't take opportunities presented by things like the HuffPo video to apologize profusely for the stream of hate that has come from people associated to their camp and repudiate it completely. Instead we get this misdirection play of "it's all about the ethics" (ignoring the firestorm) and even lamer "they're doing it to us too" (which indirectly admits the abuse gamergate has dished out)

Again I'm not sure how this is even a "thing" - ethics in gaming journalism is a hot topic? But to suggest that the crazies are acting out due to a deep seeded need to adhere to the bylaws of the Medill School of Journalism, and not because they're just sociopaths is a reach. It's like freaking Lord of The Flies out there and all I hear is excuses and rationale for the behavior

TallMichaelJ | October 23, 19:20 CET

What happened to Felicia is awful, which goes without saying. Hopefully whoever is responsible will be found and will be held responsible.

That said, it seems apparent that the vast majority of posters here are very anti-GG. I don't believe it is as cut-and-dried as everyone seems to think. Both sides have had extremists who have made despicable moves but are not really representative of the goals of either group. There are going to be trolls on the internet fanning the flames when anything gets this big, but it's important to realize that they are just that. I don't know of a solution, but I don't think bringing them to the forefront of the conversation accomplishes anything other than creating the chaos that they want. There are certainly things that need to change with the game industry as well as the game media, and I hope that these issues can be discussed in the future without all this craziness.

For what it's worth, here are a couple articles that I feel give a fair look at what has been going on, for anyone still in the dark:
Part 1: http://reason.com/archives/2014/10/12/gamergate-part-i-sex-lies-and-gender-gam
Part 2: http://reason.com/archives/2014/10/22/gamergate-part-2-videogames-meet-feminis

snakebyte | October 23, 19:24 CET

I wouldn't say you could use the term "fair" to describe an article that includes the sentence: "The feminism GamerGate rebels against is not simply about equality or diversity; it is an authoritarian, far-left brand of gender politics that views everything through the lens of patriarchal oppression and tolerates no dissent."

Which is both baiting and factually inaccurate.

AndrewCrossett | October 23, 19:40 CET

Sadly the mainstream reports are hugely one sided about #GamerGate. They don't write about the #NotYourShield hashtag, which was a reaction of #GamerGate supporters, after the gaming media labeled us cis, white, male. This hashtag represents women, blacks and all kind of minority.

<-- please don't use us to promote petitions like that - Simon -->
GamerGate raised money for The Fine Young Capitalists, a group of women who wants to develop games. Yet the (gaming) media said nothing about it. We raised money for PACER Center National Bullying Prevention, after a Gawker journalist called Sam Biddle tweeted that 'Bring Back Bullying'. Guess what? Nobody wrote about it (except now Gawker which seems losing advertisers so fast, because of their stupid "journalist"). Just yesterday GG supporters started an Indiegogo campaign for UNICEF. People already donated more than 1000 dollars. The media don't care about this, they like to focus an a few people who are doing these awful thing, because it's serve their narrative and it is easy to write about.

If we are such a hate group then ask the three brave women who were an HuffPostLive (after another one sided discussion on the previous day), how GamerGate people treating them (or just look at the #NotYourShield hashtag). Supporters actively reports harrasment and doxxing (making private personal information public) attempts. Both side (and even in the middle), got harrased and death threats and it needs to stop. But for that we need discussion, not one sided articles, especially not the "Gamers are dead!", 5-8 articles within a day articles.

Nowadays it is so easy to label people, it's easy because it doesn't require discussion. We were labelled: ISIS (infact worst than ISIS), KKK, simple terrorists, and other things. One silly twitter user spread the rumor that the Ottawa shooter wore a #GamerGate t-shirt (we don't have one btw), which made us think, what kind of other horrible things we have done, without us knowing it?

I don't put people into boxes. I had rare bad experiences with gypsy people, but I don't say that all gypsies should die, because my good experiences are far outweight the bad. Also my parents thought me better to generalize and label people.

I am a proud #GamerGate supporter, I don't condone harrasment, doxxing other people regardless of gender, race and other things (most of all because I was also harrased many years ago on the internet, and was bullied in school, so from the mainstream media POV I should be a heavy anti-GamerGater). I do believe that the gaming media has some really serious problems and they really need to change. Interestingly The Escapist has an ethics code after GamerGate started, others why can't do the same?

Also thanks @snakebyte for the two articles, written by Cathy Young.

edit: and you might also want to watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p38gwKVpLAA

[ edited by evenorbert on 2014-10-23 19:50 ]

[ edited by Simon on 2014-10-23 21:56 ]

evenorbert | October 23, 19:42 CET

I've recently seen two suggestions for getting out of this. I see huge practical problems in getting anybody to agree but I think they might be a good start to any discussion;

Open letter to #GamerGate moderates

Dear GamerGate – Please form a Consumer Organization Kthxbye

Looking at the second I wonder about adding a group of representatives with the specific role of promoting women in games. These representatives would be elected by female game developers in the industry.

technovamp | October 23, 19:45 CET

@evenobert can you share what Gamer Gate wants? In case you missed my reason for interest - a teen gamer.

hann23 | October 23, 20:00 CET

" I don't condone harrasment, doxxing other people regardless of gender, race and other things (most of all because I was also harrased many years ago on the internet, and was bullied in school, so from the mainstream media POV I should be a heavy anti-GamerGater). I do believe that the gaming media has some really serious problems and they really need to change."

If you do all these things, then you are not part of the problem.
The people who post e-mail address and send death threats, they are the problem. More gamers should speak out against that behavior, and MORE MEDIA OUTLETS should write stories about that.

chrisobrien | October 23, 20:14 CET

@hann23

Well from my perspective Gamergate has been a thing coming since at least 2007 and Gerstmanngate(an event where a Game Journalist at Gamespot Jeff Gerstmann was fired for giving a game the website had lots of ads running on it a bad score), which was the first major scandal involving game review sites being corrupt and not having the interest of the consumers as their first priority(though there were things even back then like 11/10 it's okay -IGN meme that showed people were dubious of scores and game journos). This has been a grudgingly accepted thing about AAA games that the reviews on big sites are often bought, however the view until recently was that indie sites/games were free from that, however it's been shown it hasn't recently, with the organized push of the Gamers are Dead articles, the revealing of the GameJournoPros list and of course the complete suppression of any discussion about it on many many popular sites including Reddit(other than certain containment subs like Kotakuinaction), 4chan, Wikipedia and others.

What Gamer Gate wants is disclosier and ethics policies, they want to be able to talk about subject and not just have a video posted and told THIS IS WHAT YOU BELIEVE IF YOU DON'T LEAVE ALSO COMMENTS ARE CLOSED, LISTEN AND BELIEVE. They want more sites if they refuse to do away with numbered scores to separate scores on the games quality from their morality similar to Christ Centric Gamer so people can decide for themselves. They want the Game Journos to be protectors/advocates for them and not just tell them what to believe and what to buy. Gamer Gate is about people who when they go to read a game review they want to know is the game good, is it fun not a treatise of sexuality and how they are horrible rapist white cis-male misogynists.

Judedeath | October 23, 20:26 CET

An announcement - I posted an article about one of our actors being afraid to speak out and that seems to have been ignored. Instead of sympathy, I see insults and the usual talking points that are being regurgitated elsewhere. So take a step back. Or I'll do that for you.

Simon | October 23, 20:28 CET

@Simon, sorry if that's aimed at me, I was just trying to answer a question I saw posed. Yes it is terrible, I hate that all this media attention is scaring women away from Games and Gaming. I don't care how many women are into Games/Gaming, what I care about is that if they are interested in it they fell welcomed and a part of it, and I feel like that's one of the big things this whole conflict, both sides are failing at and messing up, I wish I could see how to fix it but I can't think of any way to, because in the end this is all on the internet and all it takes is one anonymous person being a jerk because they think it's funny, or they're actually a terrible person and the whole thing will flare up again.

Judedeath | October 23, 20:37 CET

Worth noting the first person to post Felicia's alleged home address in the comments was InternetArisotcrat - the anonymous YouTuber who Adam Baldwin promotes online.

The deal is basically you can talk about GamerGate online without much problems if you're say, joss. If you don't have a penis, your personal details and such appear online shortly after. That's the pattern over and over and over. I know people in both the Whedonverse and gaming - all female - who are terrified to tweet about it, as they know their email will get hacked, it will have real world consequences in their life etc. It sounds a bit strong, but to me that's terrorism.

Ultimately I think it's great (and sadly brave) that Felicia and Joss talk about this in public. If video games are to be taken seriously as an entertainment medium, they need to be subject to the same criticism and debate as every other form.

[ edited by gossi on 2014-10-23 20:53 ]

gossi | October 23, 20:51 CET

I believe Adam Baldwin is the one who cam up with the name GamerGate in the first place.

Joss's twitter quote in the second post here is pretty spot on.

Go Felicia, you rock.

I've been a gamer since pong, and I, personally, find all the GG supporters to be beyond disgusting. As someone else pointed out above, this has nothing to actually do with ethics. You don't see that former NFL player who ripped GG getting doxed at all, yet Felicia gets doxed in like 50 mins, because OMG A WOMAN IS QUESTIONINGS MA HALO.

I'm so disgusted with humanity at this point.

Stay safe people.

Edit: What gossi said x1000. Terrorism is a good word, and not too strong at all.

[ edited by Grack21 on 2014-10-23 21:00 ]

Grack21 | October 23, 20:59 CET

What confuses me is that everyone talks like there are two sides to GamerGate, but there's no agreement as to what the sides' stances are. One side thinks it's about introducing diversity and equality into games and gamer culture vs intolerance and misogyny. The other side thinks it's about ethical journalism vs corrupt reporting. Each side acts like there's a prosecution and defence, but it's like they're not even in the same court.

Here's the thing, though. Whether or not anyone can agree on which issues each side believes in, they have somehow gotten tangled up. There are clearly certain types of people being targeted more than other in the name of GamerGate. Felicia Day posted the most considerate comments ever about the whole situation, and she still got attacked. This is what so many people can't ignore. Whenever I read an article claiming to tell a fair or untold side of GamerGate, it inevitably starts talking about feminists and 'Social Jusice Warriors' (full disclosure: I'm clearly biased because I don't understand how social justice is a bad thing) as if they're the equivalents to the hateful extremists opposing them. But all their criticism is only about the games. If it's an attack, then it's impersonal, aimed at objects not people. How can that be a match for the personal attacks and threats some of them are receiving?

Bluelark | October 23, 21:03 CET

Should I care what Gamergate is? I play quite a lot of games, but this subject just seems like twats fighting with each other and not really relevant to me.

Bunnies | October 23, 21:06 CET

Felicia is just one example of the countless women that have been harassed, defamed & lied about online under the banner of Gamergate - who, btw, do in fact, have many tee shirts online, available for purchase. There is no One True Tee, though, in the same way there is no One True Leader and no One True Movement.

I'm so proud of her for stepping out and writing about this, despite her obvious dread of what almost inevitably followed.

I think if one doesn't accept that #Gamergate encompasses a *vast* array of motivations, and one only looks at the stated aims of the few of good faith that are *actually* interested in Gamer journalism/ethics, one is missing that a large number of misogynist, sexist, anti-SJW, anti-feminists have fueled, driven, and whipped up the anti-female harassing nonsense that has been the hallmark of GamerGate, deliberately using the journalistic ethics question as a shield.

But then, when I see this, above: 'Gamer Gate is about people who when they go to read a game review they want to know is the game good, is it fun not a treatise of sexuality and how they are horrible rapist white cis-male misogynists.", well, then, I kinda know where you are coming from in this whole brouhaha. You kinda want these critics to shut up and go away. This, I believe, is one of the main motivations of GamerGate.

People, predominantly women, who are criticising some games for their sexist/racist/misogynist content (which is majority business as usual in gaming and not the work of some beleaguered oppressed "just wanna have fun" minority) are in fact some of the main targets of GamerGate.

GamerGate, though not obviously the first time women gamers/developers/critics were harassed online, began in its current incarnation with faux outrage against indie game developer Zoe Quinn, who allegedly-but-demonstrably did not get a favorable review for her game "Depression Quest" in Kotatu by sleeping with one of their writers - since "Depression Quest" was never favorably reviewed in Kotaku. Nonetheless, this lie, initiated by an unhappy ex-boyfriend, has been echo-chambered around the 'net as if it is a prime example of bad gamer journalistic ethics.

As Boston Globe's video game columnist Jesse Singal put it so eloquently in his article (linked above):

"This is only going to be a real debate if you guys can cop to your real-life feelings and opinions. You should have a bit more courage and put your actual motives front and center. Instead, because some of you do have a certain degree of political savvy, as is evidenced whenever gamergaters on 8chan and elsewhere try to rein in their more unhinged peers (no, of course not every Gamergate proponent is a harasser), you've decided to go the 'journalism ethics' route.

Unfortunately, that sauce is incredibly weak, as has been documented capably elsewhere; to the extent there are ethical issues at play here, they are very small-bore. There was no Kotaku review of 'Depression Quest,' the supposed 'scandal' of journalistic impropriety that allegedly touched all this off, and fair-minded journalists will see through that line of attack right away since Quinn was receiving hate for the game long before her boyfriend posted his jeremiad."

ETF: typo

[ edited by QuoterGal on 2014-10-23 22:27 ]

QuoterGal | October 23, 21:07 CET

this subject just seems like twats fighting with each other

Ah, false equivalency. There is rampant inappropriate misbehavior on one side, and not very much of that on the other side. So, it's not the above at all.

@theonetruebix | October 23, 21:11 CET

http://gamergateharassment.tumblr.com/

This will be my last post in this comments thread, but I just want to post this tumblr that documents that no it isn't just one side of this this having rampant inappropriate behavior. One of the big reporter voices on the Pro-Gamergate side was sent mystery syringes in the mail. There is just a lot of people being drawn to this drama and using it as an excuse to be horrible people.

Judedeath | October 23, 21:17 CET

@judedeath "I don't care how many women are into Games/Gaming, what I care about is that if they are interested in it they fell welcomed and a part of it..."

But when a female speaks up and says they DON'T feel welcomed or a part of it BECAUSE of the misogynistic tropes that are so prevalent in games, they get terrorized and doxxed. It's like you are saying, "we want you to be a part of our community as long as you don't get all bitchy and menstrual about being portrayed as bimbos and sex objects".

[ edited by Penthos on 2014-10-23 21:24 ]

Penthos | October 23, 21:19 CET

Yeah, its almost exclusively women being targeted. That should say something right there about your "movement", all though the type of person to actually take notice of something like that probably wasn't part of it to begin with.

Grack21 | October 23, 21:28 CET

I find it deeply saddening that Felicia has been threatened. And I find it all the more disturbing that we here -- who are generally so good to each other -- aren't immune to this. It is a deeply bad sign.

That said, I can't say, "Let's all just quiet down and be nice." Because then things don't change.

Let's say I saw a nail had come loose in the wall of my house, and so I went to get my hammer. Then on my way back, I stopped to talk to a friend, and we got to talking, and then we got to arguing, and as I argued I started waving my hammer around, gesticulating with it, etc. If my friend felt threatened by that -- say, because their abusive former lover once beat them with a hammer -- then they'd have a perfect right to ask me to put the hammer down, even if the nail still needs to be dealt with. The nail can wait. My friend's safety, and our friendship, matters more.

This is not about fairness in video game reporting any more (if it ever really was). Even if that were the original issue, the situation is now people fearing for their lives, as Felicia just told us. So those here who call themselves "proud GamerGaters," I'm afraid it no longer matters what you originally set out to do. You're scaring people, as Felicia just told you. Even if you never mean her any harm, even if you've got entirely reasonable points, that label scares her. More to the point, GamerGaters are scaring people who have historically been beaten down and stepped on, using tools that have always been used to do the beating.

And yes, I have no doubt that anti-GamerGate folks have gone too far, too. That ain't right either. But it's a whole different level of a problem. Like it or not, threatening to beat or rape or kill women who speak their minds is an old, old, old problem. Threatening people who have been threatening is... less of a problem, historically. It's still a problem! It should stop, too! But it's like comparing Ebola (which is a new and limited problem, which will not kill many people) to cancer (which is an old and much, much more deadly problem, which will kill millions).

So saying, "Look, we've been hurt too" is a valid point to make, but it does not carry as much weight as true, systematic silencing of women. It is not, and cannot possibly be, on the same level as threatening women for speaking their minds.

There may indeed be a loose nail somewhere in all this. But right now the GamerGaters are waving hammers at people's heads. At Felicia's head. At Quinn's and Sarkeesian's heads. And that's wrong.

I speak this, by the way, as a white, cisgendered male.

Edited to add: if you liked my hammer story as a good way of explaining this particular point, by all means copy it and share it.

[ edited by ManEnoughToAdmitIt on 2014-10-23 22:26 ]

ManEnoughToAdmitIt | October 23, 21:34 CET

@gossi: As you say InternetAristocrat is a prominent video blogger who supports gamergate. I've never seen any of his videos so I'm not sure what his exact views are. However finding his name on the posting is like finding a note at David Cameron's murder scene saying "It was me Nigel Farage. I did it". The name was faked on a temporary account. If it was an account of the real InternetAristocrat it would be easy to trace. All attacks like this go through a temporary account or the account is closed down. If IA had an account, and it had been closed because of this, half the Internet and a good chunk of the mainstream media would know by now.

technovamp | October 23, 21:34 CET

Great post, ManEnoughToAdmitIt.

BTW, folks, If you look closely, it in in fact InternetAristocat, not Aristocrat that did one of Felicia's doxxings. They exist as well as a GamerGate proponent - btw, InternetAristocrat's views are easy to find, and are pro-GamerGate, too - but they may be different folks - and then again, they may not. Who can tell?

I find it highly unlikely that any anti-Gamergate person doxxed Felicia in an attempt to smear a prominent pro-GamerGate mouth - for one thing, what SJW would dox Felicia? All this false flag stuff about anti-GamerGate folks - or SJWs - doxxing themselves is nonsense. This is one of the main things they object to, not a tactic of theirs.

QuoterGal | October 23, 21:52 CET

Hmm, no, I've seen people on the anti gamer gate side of things dox people. Its far less common, but it happens.

Self doxing though is just made up conspiracy level bullshit though.

Grack21 | October 23, 21:56 CET

b!x, if you're fighting with twats you aren't above them. I play in a Team Fortress 2 league, it's not Dota but it's fun and there's a few global LANs and a few thousands of prize money. This isn't a subject on anyone's lips. I only know it's a thing that celebrities talk about and it has to do with payola and misogyny, and people so keen to fight that they won't untangle those subjects and talk about them separately. Not my scene. I do enjoy a good fight but it would have to be something I care about. And I'm saying this as a semi-pro gamer.

Bunnies | October 23, 21:59 CET

Yeah, self-doxxing is what I'm talking about. I can't speak as to the other, but I imagine it's far rarer than GGs doxing SJWs. It's just overwhelmingly not their style or process.

QuoterGal | October 23, 21:59 CET