"'Granted, the attitude would be incredibly similar to Spike, but hey.. At least there's be 'someone who could act' in the role.'"

If this Marsters fellow really can act, then wouldn't he be capable of playing a character whose attitude isn't 'incredibly similar' to Spike's...?

forcorreo | March 24, 18:50 CET

Of course he could, but the point is, he is a much better fit for Constantine than.....*shudder* Keanu...., because we know he can do the part. He has range. Talent. More than one facial expression.

Rogue Slayer | March 24, 19:14 CET

I'd like to see him and Emma and David and, well, all of them, try stuff a tad different from fantasy/horror/sci-fi...unless I'm way off the mark, they all can act, and it would be nice to see David in something other than a gorefest...or Emma as a dramatic leading lady in something that's not a dreadful horrorshow...and I think James has virtually limitless range...

Chris in Virginia | March 24, 19:33 CET

James Marsters should play Constantine in the Hellblazer movie says Cinescape columnist and not Keanu Reeves.

Well, duh.

bookrats | March 24, 20:08 CET

Although James could do a role like Constantine in his sleep, it's not a good idea for him to do something so similar to the Spike character. He, and all of the Whedonverse actors, need to show their range in other types of roles to the Hollywood suits.

The peeps at places like Chud.com are already up in arms because the studio/producers have discarded a great deal of the Hellblazer comics' mythos and come up with stuff to suit their own needs (ie., Constantine is American now instead of English, etc.) That's the problem with so many comics-to-movie adaptations. If you loved the comicbook, chances are the movie will be a terrible affront, let alone disappointment, to you. If you don't know the comics, then the movie might be fine on its own terms for newbies.

I think I read a suggestion here that Alexis Denisof would be a great Reed Richards in the Fantastic Four movie (which Doug Petrie is writing). I could see AD as Reed Richards.

As for Keanu as Constantine...oy, the less said the better. However, I'm thrilled that Christian Bale is the new Batman. Yessss!

punkinpuss | March 24, 20:20 CET

Ugh, no.

PMMJ | March 24, 20:34 CET

Ugh, no, what exactly? :)

Caroline | March 24, 20:39 CET

Rogue Slayer--Keanu Reeves has a facial expression? I never noticed that.

Caroline--I was wondering the same thing.

Neil Gaiman had some interesting things to say on his site about Constantine:

...it's true that Alan's [Moore] rejected the money for CONSTANTINE and assigned it to his cocreators, but he's now done that for all films of his and things he's done that might one day be filmed...

As far as I know, from having spoken to him, Alan's view on Constantine itself is the same as his view on From Hell and League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, which is that he'll probably rent the DVD one day, you never know, hell might freeze over...

I tend to feel that the filmmakers started with two strikes against them, simply by casting Keanu Reeves instead of, say, Jude Law...

I cut out some of it but you can find the full text here.

Obviously, JM would have been great so I don't need to say that but I also think if he'd been offered, he should have done it. I don't think it would have hurt his career. He really relishes being able to play this type of role and not all actors are worried about type-casting. Whenever I see him doing something drastically different people seem to have a pretty negative reaction. I think it would have been good for him, good for the film, and certainly better for the audience!

[ edited by stakeholder on 2004-03-24 19:30 ]

marmoset | March 24, 21:30 CET

I don't think James will get typecast, and if he does and it leads to major movies, is he gonna care that much? I doubt it! This man was near-starving on the theater circuit. I'm sure he'd be willing to do Spike-like stuff for quite a while longer.

Rogue Slayer | March 24, 21:50 CET

Rogue Slayer- Sorry, that was sarcasm. I may have been mistaken in that person's meaning, but it seemed to me like he (she?) was saying that if JM played the character, then the character would be Spike-like, and I meant to poke fun at that, cuz I think James Marsters is a fantastic actor and would bring whatever was needed to the role, that Spike is just one character he plays and all that blah blah blah.

As for whether JM should play this character or not (I mean, assuming the role hadn't already been filled), I couldn't really say- I've never read 'Hellblazer' and have no idea what it or the character are like...

forcorreo | March 24, 21:54 CET

One thing about JM, he can change his hair color, do different accents and body language.

I agree with the reviewer that James CAN definitely act, which is more than I can say for Keanu.

twiggy | March 24, 22:17 CET

I didn't catch the sarcasm either. We really should start using that purple.

I love Hellblazer. Basically it's about a guy who is heavily into magic. He grew up poor and hated by his father and he sort of moves between being a cad and trying to save the world through magic. There are always consequences and he gets a lot of people killed so he is very haunted. Not to metion the fact that as he gets older he notices the world hardly seems worth saving and no one cares anyway.

He is very much a British character and it seems ridiculous to me that they've made him American. It's supposed to be based on the "Fear and Loathing" storyline so I want to know what the hell they're going to do with Kit? Is she going to be from Belfast or is she going to be American as well?

If you do read any, you should start at the beginning of the series because John Constantine is a lot older and very bitter now.

marmoset | March 24, 22:19 CET

Am I the only one here who isn't that impressed with JM's TV acting abilities? Not that I think he's bad, I just don't think he's that remarkable on screen.

Caroline | March 24, 22:32 CET

I quite like what he does. It's somewhat impressive that he managed to take what was essentially a single purpose character and create something that had enough weight to catch the attention of ME and keep evolving.

herb | March 24, 22:44 CET

I agree, that was good work. I just thought in the later seasons, when he got a beefier part, he was a over the top and I like it more subtle. It's all a matter of preference, really.

Caroline | March 24, 22:56 CET

Speaking only for myself, Caroline, I think he's a truly remarkable actor, capable of insane violence, tempered, almost simultaneously, with a beautifully intense tenderness...and he's a marvelous physical actor, as well.

And as for nuanced expressions, well, he's superb...the slight yet startling change of expression when he realizes it's the real Buffy's lips on his cheeks...the look he gives Dawn when he realizes she's the key...his horribly sweet and doting gaze at Drusilla...and even the goofy look of encouragement when he bucks up Harmony's spirits in at the end of "Harm's Way"...

And then there's that astonishing speech to Buffy at the end of Beneath You...yeah, I think he's a major talent, remarkable indeed.

[ edited by Chris in Virginia on 2004-03-24 21:13 ]

Chris in Virginia | March 24, 23:07 CET

I suppose it's kind of relative. Someone can point at what most consider the greatest actor in the world and say "I don't see it". What is oscar material to one, is overacting to someone else. It's always at least partially eye of the beholder I suppose.

I think James is probably one of the best of all the Buffy actors. His abillities in emoting , range, accent and body langauge are up there even in the Whedon shows that have excellent casting overall.

The best actors from Joss' shows would be (in my obviously very personal opinion): James, Alexis Denisoff, Nathan Fillion, Tony Head, Alyson and SMG. BTW I think they're all pretty damn good, but when it comes to pure acting chops in therms of versatillity, range, etc, if I had to pick I'd say these would be the best.

I remember Joss saying something in a commentary on the Firefly DVD about how Nathan Fillion is so good, how he can go from goofy to genuinely heroic or dramatic in a heartbeat and can make it work. He said he knew no other actor who could do those things so well, 'except maybe James Marsters'.

EdDantes | March 24, 23:21 CET

JM is a remarkable actor. He would do well in almost any role he was offered.

cal | March 24, 23:35 CET

Yeah, ok, I KNOW there's a lot of people here who think he's great. That's not what I was asking for, was I? :P

Best actors in the Whedonverse... I actually like NB a lot. He's not a great "actor", but I think he was a complete natural in the role of Xander. I'm not a fan of SMG and never liked her character a whole lot, but I think she's a very good actress. Denisof is really good, but needs to speak up a bit, sometimes he's just mumbling. It's a toss between ASH and Emma Caulfield for me. In all his time on Buffy there's only one scene where I thought ASH was 'off' ('tiny, tiny babies!'), the rest of his work is just impeccable without being showy or stealing scenes. EC has the wonderful delivery, she always surprised me.

Caroline | March 25, 00:02 CET

Here...here Chris in Virginia...I second what you say and raise you too. James is an awesome actor and that speech in Beneath You or in the end of Touched....brings tears to your eyes. Yes indeed the man can act....effortlessly too !

kathylovesspike | March 25, 00:22 CET

I'll throw in my vote for Emma as favorite Buffy actress, though I love them all. Her inflections and facial expressions just add so much to her lines. Had the performance of Anya gone any other way, it would have seemed like a very cheesy character.

I used to never be too horribly impressed with JM. I loved the Spike character, but I didn't think anything of the acting involved. It wasn't until after I'd read or seen interviews with JM, where he talks about his various methods of getting into the character and the thoughts he puts behind it all, that I started really noticing and appreciating what he brought to the role of Spike. It was then, that I thought 'Wow. He's a really good actor'.

Greyflowers | March 25, 00:34 CET

When James was in theater, he acted in places where you can't even get a toe in the door unless you have got some real acting chops..

The FOOL FOR LOVE scene in the alley (Spike with Buffy/going back and forth to the slayer in the 70's,) remains one of the greatest things I've ever watched on my TV....

I know James will be fine, if nothing else he can go back to theater.. I still can't help but hope he gets some work where the general public gets a chance to see him perform.

I think he was BY FAR the best actor on BTVS/ATS, and that's a real compliment cause most of them are very talented.

[ edited by twiggy on 2004-03-24 22:36 ]

twiggy | March 25, 00:35 CET

I'd love to see JM do Shakespeare.

electricspacegirl | March 25, 00:47 CET

Well, Caroline, it's an apples and oranges kind of argument I suppose. I'm also in the "JM is the best thing since sliced bread camp" but I also keep in mind that all these actors are playing a specific role and the demands of that role will dictate what kind of performance they give.

AD on the later seasons of Angel has given marvelously understated performances -- as befits Wesley of that period. Wesley from BtVS? An entirely different matter. That Wesley was mainly comic relief and AD played him as he was written, an over-the-top fun character. He didn't get the chance to play a more nuanced Wesley until AtS writers gave him the opportunity to play a more developed character. Without that chance, we'd still think of Wesley as the bumbling pompous Watcher, not the hot scruffy badass moral pragmatist.

Spike is a more overtly dramatic character and his function in the stories on both shows reflect that. He is a larger-than-life character to begin with and he's meant to stir up trouble, be the wildcard, trickster figure. Playing him as understated would not have made sense for the character in most cases, not with the dialogue he was given. Also, knowing what we know now about the construction of the Spike persona, the character's theatricality makes even more sense.

These guys are all fantastic talents. I can't wait to see what they'll do in the future.

punkinpuss | March 25, 01:15 CET

I forget the name of the ep--it's the one where Spike is at the bottom of the stairs in the basement describing to Buffy the people he may have killed...

Was just watching that clip yesterday--and I had to freeze the screen and watch him frame by frame he was so %#2! good.

Check it out. His facial expression changes not a tad, barely a tweek--it's all, all spoken from the inside of his flesh. Deep tissue fear, trauma, shock and sorrow marrow deep. He didn't need to show the emtotion...he was the emotion. This is the mark of what could be a truly great, great actor. Season 7 was all about subtle--almost every scene it was about what was going on in sub space.

In BTVS he never got big unless he was feeling it so deep inside it overwhelmed him. It got big, but it came from a hot source.

This is my problem with ATS. He goes big all the time with no real emtional fire underneath. He goes small with nothing cooking. With the exception of the Fred scenes--and the very,very lovely hospital scene post sans hands--(and some odds and ends like the 'hole in the world' speech)in my opinion, he doesn't seem alive in the part. Look into his eyes they are for the most part flat and withdrawn. He isn't there. His anger isn't angry, his joy has no bubble and if it was a character choice--say, a 'back from the dead disconnected Spike'--I would like to have seen that arc set up. Oh well, whatever...I'm over it really...sorry to bring it up again.

Because 'off' or 'on' I'll tune in to watch him.

It's his own fault you know--he was so brillint that's all I want from him and for him. The love he offered to the world in BTVS 7 was such a gift. No kidding, yesterday as I was watching that clip I actually felt my bones soften in empathy. His work softens the heart and heals. I bet it would rate high in a keinsinology (spelling?) test. He gave us all an amazing gift and it had to have cost him and ok, maybe ATS5 has just been his vacation for a while and I'll chilly chill.

And true, the last couple of ATS eps were bringing back shades of season 7 Spike and it was a like a drink of water to see my old friend again--so I can only hope ME will throw we Redemptionists a few more lovely bones before they bow out.

And goodness knows, he's earned his right for a good speech or two.

Wonderful, beautiful man.

BforBeth | March 25, 01:26 CET

Yeah, I like Emma Caulfield, but I don't know enough about her off-screen character/persona to know if she's just 'being herself' or if she's really acting. Same with Nick Brendon. Anywhere else I've seen him, he's pretty much the same type of wisecracking guy. Aly too, always playing the cute, sweet girl, and seems to be so in real life. But SMG is different, Alexis is different(he smiles in real life!), and James is REALLY different. Super ADD boy in real life, it seems. Huge contrast to Spike.

Just for reference to those James naysayers(ok, not a lot, but I gotta defend my boy): William(come on, to go from snarky asshole to subdued Victorian poet, the way he talked to Cecily.....good stuff), all of Beneath You, the 'You're the one' speech in Season 7, "I know you'll never love me. I know that I'm a monster. But you treat me like a man....", Spike's reaction to seeing Buffy back from the dead-the man can act with just his eyes like no one else! Also to that effect, his reaction to her dumping him in As You Were.

What I love about James is that he plays Spike to be very tough, but there are moments when you can see the William inside. The lovesick puppy that he is.

He's so frickin' amazing! I know that everyone has different tastes, but to put Nicky Brendon on the same level(or higher) than James seems sacriledge to me. James is a (semi)Julliard trained veteran of the theater. Nicky is a failed baseball player. I don't mean that as a bash, but just on credentials, James comes out head and shoulders above him, and above most of the other actors on the show. He's got chops!

Rogue Slayer | March 25, 01:49 CET

James is good, but best through S5 Buffy and before. After that I believe he got too caught up in the melodramatic male lead. A lot of that is the writing - they stopped writing him, with some rare exceptions, as the nuanced, wicked, funny character he'd been. It was up to James to stretch the character, and I think he did well, but not great.

Best long-term actor on the show goes to ASH, who never once made me think he was acting.

friarfunk | March 25, 02:25 CET

Rogue Slayer - I totally agree with everything you said about JM. His acting blows me away. I don't think any other actor has even come close to making me feel the way JM does. Awesome.

cal | March 25, 03:03 CET

I'd agree with the 'YMMV on the JM-o-meter' thought, while saying that personally I've always enjoyed his take on Spike, even when it was played more for laughs and as a strict counterpoint to Buffy in the earlier seasons of BtVS. I was totally captivated by how, under the sometimes loutish punk crust, he was able to evoke a tenderness with Drusilla that was almost shockingly poignant. Later, as Spike developed more layers, it was easy to say that he'd always been that way -- but no, he was originally more one-dimensional. JM's nuanced growth simply made it seem organic and unjarringly natural.

AD is inarguably (in my mind, anyway) the most consistent performer on AtS. Watching Wesley's growth arc has been incredible, and he's scarcely put a foot wrong since he came on (even managing to win over most who hated him on BtVS). Even if I haven't agreed 100% with the 'why's' of certain of Wesley's character developments in the show's latter seasons, AD's conviction has carried me through any qualms to believe along with him that Wesley was reacting perfectly in those moments as they were presented to him.

Since no one else is speaking on behalf of the big guy, I'd also like to give DB props in the acting department; I think he continues to be hugely underrated. Angel is DB's first role, and he hasn't had the degree of theatrical training of either JM or AD. That said, I think he's grown tremendously from the character's beginnings on BtVS, especially in the last several years. While his energy seems to fluctuate more than many of the other AtS actors (according to the direction and writing he's given, as well as who he's playing opposite), I would argue that when he's 'on', only AD and JM (and SMG on BtVS, it must be said) can match him for sheer intensity.

VK and CC also tend to bring out the best in him; some of my favorite Angel scenes of all time are with Connor and Cordy. I'm thinking of Angel confronting Cordy for the book in the new AI office in 'Reprise' ("I'm a vampire. Look it up.") and Angel's scene in the crack den with Connor in 'A New World' as off-the-top-of-my-head examples. He's able to combine power with vulnerability, which isn't easy to convey without coming across as weakness. (Let it be said that when Angel gets vulnerable, the weakness is in my knees...) There's always a core of inner certainly and self-control in Angel's body language and expressions, an edge of vigilance that gives him an interesting tension because it sometimes plays so at odds with his mental turmoil.

I think the large-framed, athletic DB being cast as a brooding undead guy was going against type from the get-go, which I imagine was part of what intrigued Joss in the first place. It so easily could have gone wrong, yet DB's made the role so fully his own, I honestly can't imagine anyone else playing Angel. As easy-going and full of cheer as DB apparently is in real life, for him to believably portray a grim-faced, angstful, tormented and constricted vampire for eight years signifies a depth of ability to me that shouldn't be so frequently overlooked.

Angel's palette has been circumscribed by the emotional repression and introversion defined by the role of tragic vampire hero, and DB has used those relative limitations to paint a beautiful, sepia-toned portrait of a man embattled and yet elevated by his struggle with his own demons. Contrast DB on Carson Daly with Angel in prime impassioned champion mode, and I think the argument from some quarters (not here!) that he isn't a good actor falls flat on its face.

I see enormous potential in his future, in directing as well as acting. I'm looking forward to seeing him try new things as AtS ends, and hoping he seeks smaller roles in more adventurous indy films that will let him push his abilities even further. Something I wish for all the cast, in fact! :)

Wiseblood | March 25, 03:12 CET

Spike always had a bit of John Constantine in him anyway. :)

Kansas | March 25, 03:15 CET

"Yeah, ok, I KNOW there's a lot of people here who think he's great. That's not what I was asking for, was I? :P'

Caroline, what were you asking for? Analysis of why people like or don't like Marsters? With specific examples of why? Seems you got plenty of it.

Or, what was it you were looking for, if not that?

Chris inVirginia | March 25, 04:07 CET

As easy-going and full of cheer as DB apparently is in real life, for him to believably portray a grim-faced, angstful, tormented and constricted vampire for eight years signifies a depth of ability to me that shouldn't be so frequently overlooked.

I agree with that. I was shocked when I first saw DB interviewed. It's just not the same guy at all. That's when I realized how good an actor he is.

Lizard, Caroline was looking for people who agree with her.

electricspacegirl | March 25, 04:19 CET

What I like about James Marsters is, I think he's a brave, passionate, intelligent actor. He seems so genuinely in love with acting that he puts his all into it. He'll go anywhere with a character, he doesn't seem to let fear get in his way. He thinks about the character, does every thing he can to make that character more real. I greatly admire him...
But...yeah, he can be a bit of a ham sometimes, or a 'screen chewer.' I can understand how some people might be turned off by that- I would love to see him on the stage though, I'm sure his kind of energy is made for it.

I agree with Caroline and Wiseblood (and whoever else might have said it that I missed) that ASH and Denisof, respectively, are two of the 'verses most consistent actors. They are both truly, truly awesome. They both have what I see as a kind of fluidity to their acting. Whereas JM infuses his roles with so much passion, ASH and AD seem more...I can't think of a great way of putting it...they flow, if you know what I mean.

David Boreanaz gets my award for most improved actor. To see how he's grown from Buffy Season 1 to now has been a treat- I feel kinda proud of him.

Alyson Hannigan- Ok, most of the characters she has played are cute and sweet...but not 'Dark Willow'. Not Vampire Willow, for that matter.
Besides, I don't necessarily think the mark of a good actor is that they can take on a lot of different kinds of roles, it's how they play those roles. Take Jack Nicholson, for example- a lot of people think he's overrated because he always plays Jack Nicholson, but I think he plays Jack Nicholson very well. I mean, he doesn't suck. There are a lot of actors who do suck- who can't sell a moment, who can't make you believe in them, who even take you out of the story because they're not getting there, but Jack Nicholson, imo, is not one of those actors. He's very good at what he does.
Applying that to Emma Caulfield- one of my favorite moments of her's on Buffy is when she's talking to Spike about Xander, and she's starting to break down, and she says 'What if he never wanted me, the way I wanted him?' She is so perfect in that moment. I don't care if I ever see her in another role, or if every role I see her in henceforth is very similar Anya, I'll always think she's good for that moment alone.

And how about giving props to some of the minor players? One thing I've always noticed about Buffy and Angel is how they've seemed able to find these really impressive actors to play even the smallest parts. Adam Busch, Harry Groener, Danny Strong, Azura Skye, etc etc etc. There are so many to name.

forcorreo | March 25, 09:41 CET

Forcorreo - agree with you there, that's what I like about ASH and AD too. I used to be more into showy method actors when I was younger, mind. These days I like quiet and natural.

Caroline | March 25, 10:52 CET

and how about giving props to some of the minor players?

Yes. I've always appreciated the acting talent of the minor characters. Even the one-episode actors especially on Angel. I will never forget Angel's first "case" in 'City of'. Tracy Middendorf. I have seen her in many other roles (X-Files, The Practice, Alias) and she always blows me away. I was sad to see her die because I thought she would be a good re-occuring character. She is an astounding actress who I think deserves her own dramatic series.

On a side note, Nina reminds me of Tracy Middendorf. Maybe that's why Nina doesn't bother me. Plus, I actually seem to be the only person who liked 'Unleashed'.

Alexis Denisof is the main Angel character who impresses me. He can convey so much emotion and conflict in just one look. I first noticed that in season 3 and his subtlety and underplaying is what I love so much. I also love the character of Wesley. Of all the Angel men, he is the one who is most my type (although I'll always have a yen for Angel). But Alexis just blows me away every time he is given the chance. In 'Lineage', 'A Hole In the World', and 'Shells' his acting astounded me. He is one of the ME actors I will always watch for, and try to see everything he is in.

James is a good actor. I understand what Caroline is saying about his "over-the-top" acting, but I think it fits with the character of Spike. It especially fit for Buffy. I do think he would be fun to watch in theater. I'd love to see him do Shakespeare.

electricspacegirl | March 25, 11:30 CET

David Boreanaz would be one of the actors in the Buffyverse who impresses me the most. I think he has come on leaps and bounds since Buffy season 1.

Simon | March 25, 13:00 CET

Oh yes Tracey Middenmorf. She was wonderful. To this day I think she's one of the best guest stars Angel's had.

forcorreo | March 25, 19:38 CET