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"So tell me.. which stage of grieving is this?"
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November 18 2014

(SPOILER) Discuss Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 2x08 "The Things We Bury". The episode was written by DJ Doyle and was directed by Milan Cheylov.

X Here.

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2014-11-19 02:40 ]
I'm hoping they're burying treasure but I suspect I'm going to be disappointed.
That's why I put an "X" on this page. Buried treasure...
I'm expecting another solid episode tonight. There hasn't been a stinker yet this season!

Possibly the most consistent Whedon season since Buffy season 3.
Evening everyone, are you ready?
Hi everyone, I'm trying to get my kid asleep. I'm hoping he dozes off real fast
Oh my god Dichen!
Don't kill Dichen!

[ edited by Squishy on 2014-11-19 03:03 ]
.... could she be Skye's mom?
Reed and Dichen in the same scene. Awesome.
Ooh! Sierra is an Inhuman...
Dichen! Alas things don't look good.

[ edited by chrisobrien on 2014-11-19 03:10 ]
"That's so small-minded. For ... someone with such a big mind." Ha.
I hope we get the flash back of Diechen kicking a lot of ass. Just saying.
I like Skye's dad.
Me too, Nebula.
Bad guy blah blah.
Ooh! Skye was created by monks to be the key.
Friends turned to stone?!
So Simmons IS Hydra.
@Nebula1400 ha!
I love Ward now!
Ward does the big bad wolf thing well.
I hope Dichen is related to Raina
My bet is that Mac is brainwashed or a Hydra spy. Simmons OR Bobbi could be brainwashed too. I'm thinking Bobbi. She's interviewing Bakshi, and he will trigger her.

This is all conjecture, so not spoilery?

Also, I'd bet dollars to donuts that Dichen is Skye's mother.
Excellent opening act. I wish I thought Dichen was Skye's mother but the timing ... I suppose if she's Inhuman anything is possible.

Such a delight to see her!
I like the team that Coulson took with him.
"I like Skye's dad."

But he's so eeeeeevil!
Aww. Simmons feels about Agent Carter the way we all do.
chrisobrien, I hope you're wrong about Mac but man, something's up. Not sure about Simmons and Bobbi - possible? Which betrayal would be most devastating?
Ha. Simmins fan-girling over Agent Carter. So cute.
Simmons fangirls Agent Carter - I love it!
The girl you caged up?
Love seeing Peggy, still hoping we might get an update on Sharon on the show.
Does this mean Reed Diamond will be on Agent Carter a lot?
Crazy Skye dad is so fun to watch.
"In the afterlife." Yikes, creepy. He underplayed that line beautifully.
I like all these tight connections that they're weaving between the two shows.
This is the best role Kyle M. has had since Twin Peaks. He gets to be truly fun.
A whole segment w/o Ward... looking forward to that talk!
Good lord Kyle M. is having a fabulous time. "Afterlife," shyeah.

And yes, Simmons going wild over the Agent Carter links is adorb.
kyle maclachlan can really do crazy.
Ooo Peggy! Also; Blue angels bering gifts.
what did Simmons SDNY about agent carter?
It's interesting how the two Wards use the same arguments on each other that they use on other people.
You take after mother.
He's going to bury his brother alive.
Go Fitz go! Muscle memory ftw.
And Trip getting all fanboy over Coulson. I love Trip. Please don't kill Trip.
Audrey shoutout!
So, now they know Whitehall is really old...
Whitehall is Dorian Grey?
Budget cuts? Oh.... maybe not. Ohhhh, tricky stuff! Yay, I love this episode.
Ooh, more Dichen!
The beauty of the MCU, Pierce pulling those strings.
Hah! She is Skye's mother!
Oh no Dichen. :(
SUCH a good scene. Both of them calling the other crazy/evil, no one giving an inch. Wow.
There was a lot in the first half of this episode! This is awesome!
Nebula, I think so! Poor Dichen, I love her.

Edited to add: whoa! You're right. How can we be only halfway through?!

[ edited by javelina on 2014-11-19 03:33 ]
So which Ward are we all rooting for? It's kind of a wash for me so I think I'm mostly hoping someone else will show up and night-night both of them in the end.
I'm totally rooting for Ward because he's superpsycho!
Let's take time out to appreciate how well casted this show is...
Re: the Wards. I just want to know which one was crazy first and made the other crazy. Then they can both be shoved down the well.
Dichen can show up on Agent Carter, too. The end of AC's 8 eps. can lead to the 2015 eps. of AoS.
You can put a cyanide capsule inside your cheekbone? Whoa, Hydra.
Did a Senator really think he could out run a SHIELD agent? Haha.
Oh great. So both Ward boys were created by a crazy mom? So... we're going to get her on the show later, aren't we?
Yay, now the wards team up!!
This is warped....
Well, that was weird. I thought Ward was going to throw big brother down the well anyway, but no. Apparently he has other plans.
Damn, I was sure Ward was going to put his brother down the well anyway.
Evil Ward witha senator on his side?! Biggest big bad ever.
The world is definitely less safe if the Ward siblings have formed a true alliance.
NYPinTA - I have to admit I would miss Grant, big time.
Don't you dare!
GHAAHAHAHHHHAAAA...... I'm a doctor...
Okay, I missed some of the details of the Australia op. What are they trying to do, exactly?
"I can help, I'm a doctor." HA!
Oh shit, Tripp. And oh, shit, Kyle, whose character's name is ... do we know? God this is intense.
Woah! What an act break. Also, is Grant's family name Ward... or Buckner?
@erendis I think they are going to use the Australian satellite station to hack into the satellites to compare the topography of city scapes and find one that matches the 3D map Coulson and the others have been carving.
Aw, damn. I knew we should've made "DON'T KILL TRIP" tshirts.
This episode is leaving me with a smile that may last 2 weeks till 2.09.
erindis, they're trying to hack a satellite so they can find the city (I missed how, exactly).

Edit: NYPinTA is way ahead of me.

[ edited by javelina on 2014-11-19 03:47 ]
They are trying to access a satellite to find the location of the City.
This show got good.
I don't think "how" was anything like English.
Saved by a psycho. Hmmm.
OMFG I adore Kyle Maclaughlin. God he's soooooo eviiiiiiilllll.
Thanks, guys ... it's all making sense again.

This is a fantastic scene. OMG.
Sure! I don't know what that is.
Hahah. "Oh. There's something inside." It's so wrong I love this guy, right?

[ edited by NYPinTA on 2014-11-19 03:50 ]
Skye's dad is simultaneously really unsettling and really fun.
Just say it.... The Diviner is a terrigen bomb

[ edited by Numfar PTB on 2014-11-19 03:51 ]
Come on, Tripp, hang in there ...
God, this is fucked up.
Ward is going to go after Whitehall.
Oh holy shit, Ward!
Holy shit, Ward.
Why would Ward kill his own brother when he could've used him under threat of blackmail? Seems short-sighted.
I don't think Skye's dad is evil. I think he is crazed from losing his wife and daughter.
God damn, this is AMAZING. When is the last episode before the miniseries? Because I predict the most terrifying cliffhanger ever.
Why would Ward kill his own brother when he could've used him under threat of blackmail? Seems short-sighted.

Making sure he gets into the Evil League of Evil?
Omg young Kyle!!!
Yeah. That would do it. Whitehall is so super duper dead.
They younged him!

And we were right!
Who wants to make a "sleeper has awakened" joke?
Wait. There's another fake May?
Does that city in the previews look like Attilan?

[ edited by Squishy on 2014-11-19 04:01 ]
Wow, that was AWESOME! Really firing on all cylinders this season.
May be a sleeper?
OK, NYPinTA. I'm not responding to you anymore! :D
No wonder Skye's dad is fucked up. God. That was horrible. When the writers started off the season with the words "Go dark," they were seriously not kidding.
Ward killed his brother because he make it look like the Senator killed his parents (because they tortured him) and then killed himself. Ward is then in the clear.

Ward, Whitehall, and Skye's Dad. Now THAT is an uneasy alliance!
Every time I think this show can't get more awesome, it gets more.

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2014-11-19 05:02 ]
Man... Kyle MacLachlan is really going for an Emmy this year.
@Sunfire - Or it's the same fake May and her face got stuck?

And lemme be not the only person to note that K.M.'s delivery of the "look your enemy in the eye" line was perfect.
Also, it's a bit of a shame not giving Dichen more to do, she's a great actress. Still nice to see her though.
Between Skye's dad, and Ward wanting to prove he's on Skye's side, Whitehall is dead.
I really think we'll see Dichen in Agent Carter.
And lemme be not the only person to note that K.M.'s delivery of the "look your enemy in the eye" line was perfect.


Yes, it was!
Loved tonights episode.
We'll definitely see her in Agent Carter and maybe also in AOS flashbacks.
Probably. I'm waiting for Fran Kranz to appear now.
LOVED this episode. I'm going to take this weekend to rewatch every episode from the season in a mini-marathon. This season(and in particular the Inhumans/Skye's Dad/Evil Ward storylines) are making me look back on the first season alot more fondly. None of these storylines would work without the set up from the first season.

[ edited by eddy on 2014-11-19 04:21 ]
Starting to wonder about Mack's loyalties. Somebody with that many doubts about his situation probably is a security risk. And he seems to be trying pretty hard to convince Fitz that Coulson is crazy or untrustworthy.
We'll definitely be seeing Enver Gjokaj in Agent Carter. And it seems we'll be seeing Fran Kranz in the second half of SHIELD.
Good. It;s all coming together. Why Whitehall is immortal, info on Ward's past and a surprise, what Daddy's motivation is, Skye's mother, nice moment for Hunter and Bobbi.

Promo for next week: Is May "complying?"

Oh, and Diviner=Terrigen Bomb?
Best episode yet. So much to love.

Random observations. And a question.

Two out of three of the evil triumvirate are out to win Skye's love.

Kyle M is stealing every scene he's in.

People in this show should get laid more often. Thanks Hunter and Bobbi.

Trip finally got some screen time, all so he could catch a bullet in the chest.

Isn't Peggy still alive? Why doesn't someone go try to get info from her?
So does anyone want to take a guess as to what Skye's real name is? Anyone have some comics knowledge?

"Isn't Peggy still alive? Why doesn't someone go try to get info from her? "

She has Alzheimer's.

[ edited by eddy on 2014-11-19 04:27 ]
Oh, yeah Skye's mother was immortal and/or had a healing factor. Skye does not that, as two bullets almost did her in.
I really liked this episode. So much happened. Dark plot twists followed by unexpected character turns.

Don't really care for the Bobbi-Hunter hookup. Seemed like contrived sexual tension, but perhaps thats because I just don't buy their relationship to begin with. Wish I did.

Also, does anyone know how/why Skye's Dad was at the Australian facility? Did he know Shield was going to be there? If so, that would imply a mole (May clone?). If not, then what was he doing there?

@Nebula, pretty sure we WILL see Fran Kranz on AOS.

[ edited by Penthos on 2014-11-19 04:34 ]
He was trying to map the city, like Coulson.
Bobbi/Lance = Buffy/Spike redux.
Sky's dad keeps insisting "that's not her name." I feel like we've heard him say that at least three times now. So ... what is her name? Could she be a character people will recognize from the comics?? I mean, I get the reason why he's upset--his daughter was stolen, and given a different life and a different name. But it also feels like the writers are setting us up for some kind of payoff with this recurring line.
Yes, I've been wondering the same thing. I've been hoping she'll turn out to be a character from the comics.

But who???
@Squishy - okay, but that's a backup facility that only went online when shield took Hawaii down. Did Dr. CrazyPants know that Shield was taking that facility down? If so, how? What am I missing?
Maybe someone on Coulson's team is secretly working with Whitehall and/or Skye's dad, and tipped Skye's dad off about where they were headed? That would make a lot more sense than him just randomly showing up there.
@Penthos-Daddy/Hydra must have followed the same train of thought that the back up place would be easier to hack and let SHIELD do that for them.
@Dusk - only if they somehow KNEW Shield was going to knock out Hawaii and when. That requires inside knowledge of Shields plans. A mole.
Yeah, I thought Fran had said something about appearing on Agents of SHIELD over the summer, but these days, I doubt my memory.

I'm wondering if Lance Hunter is a sleeper agent. I mean, why is he there in the first place, really? And any time he gets suspicious of Bobbi being with Hydra, she'll use sex to make him drop the subject.
@Sunfire - YES! I just checked IMDb and as you already knew, Enver Gjokaj will be in at least the first episode of Agent Carter. So. Psyched.

Fran Kranz seems like an obvious go-to, but he isn't announced. No one is, really, for the upcoming Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. episodes. The better to startle us with ...

About tonight's kick-ass episode - I agree with Penthos et al. - there's got to be an AoS mole who told Hydra about the Australian venture.
It may not be a Hydra mole. It could be The Doctor mole.

My money's on Simmons if it's that. She may just be faking being a bad liar.

And some of the humor in there felt like Joss's, especially some of Kyle McLachlan's lines.

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2014-11-19 05:42 ]
Indeed, the Doctor must have his own network. Where's Raina?

And oh, yes, it most definitely felt like Joss tonight! Kyle and Joss were made for each other - how did it take them this long?
I don't know. Maybe too many of Joss's shows kept getting cancelled to get there till now.
And where IS Raina? She's gotta be plotting something somewhere.

And was Dichen announced as being in this ep?

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2014-11-19 05:46 ]
Enver is a series regular on Agent Carter, so we'll be seeing him a lot.

The only thing we know about Fran appearing on AoS is that he tweeted something he shouldn't have and then deleted it. It'll be a nice surprise for 2015.
So I didn't imagine Fran's saying it.
No but Marvel wishes you had. I hope he didn't get into too much trouble.
Poor Fran. I feel for honest people, especially when they are happy and about to have their bubble burst.
Kyle looked so young in that flashback l wondered if it might actually be a clip from some show done when he was younger that fortuitously fit the plot here. If that was Dichen's horribly butchered body, making her Sky's mother, then Daddy and Dichen aren't the same species since he aged and she didn't.
@barboo - I was wondering the same thing! Or whether they found a younger doppelganger. I would think it's just that they took the aging make-up off if I hadn't seen him as the Captain over the last few years. This was, like, Blue Velvet era young.
There are ways to make someone look younger. I don't know the technical terms, but before there was CGI, there used to be some way of making TV personalities look younger on screen than they actually do. It was commonly used on male news anchors at least as far back as the 90's. I doubt they used old footage for the scene.
So how much longer until Ward moves to L.A. and starts a private investigation business??
Sierra is Skye's mother. WHAT WHAT.
So Whitehall hates Peggy Carter with a fiery passion, but he hasn't tried to kill her since he's been free? #plotholealert
Maybe Whitehall gave her Alzheimer's to trap her in her own mind like she trapped him in a prison cell. It is not a plot hole until we know all the history, libradude.

[ edited by Jayne's Hat on 2014-11-19 08:39 ]
And if its and buts were candy and nuts, it would be Christmas every day. ;)
Simmons is totally hydra. That's twice forshadowing. Unless they are tricking us and it's Bobbi.

Brillaint scene with the brothers - such conviction on both parts. I thought Ward was going to kill him after the confession and when he said go home, I realised that if their parents were alive - things might get bloody. Dude killed his real family! No wonder, since his "family" is Coulson's team - the original. Is he now going to start killing off the new folk? Not Mac or Trip! ;__;

I really hope we don't get a redemption arc for him - his brain is too mashed up for that. Crazy maniachle Ward is more fun.

And let me tell you how awesome it was to see the three cazies in one room - playing nice while each so ready to stab and slice the other's back. Tension abound! So good. :D
yeah can I just add to the wtf re: the doctor (not The Doctor, that would be weird) showing up in Australia and being surprised to see SHIELD there. If he didn't know they were taking out Hawaii what was he doing there?! Ugh.

I can't decide if I think Simmons is brainwashed or not. On the one hand obvious, but on the other hand, it would be so painful for everyone (including her!) if she were, which leads me to believe it will probably happen. Always go for the hurt... I kind of think she is-- that was a big nod to it in this episode but the same episode leaned harder on Bobbi's questionable actions so I see that as being the mislead.

And I'm just gonna say it cause no one else ever does-- I like Hunter! I like Hunter and Bobbi! I like them together! Phew OK I'm done.
@aphasia I agree with you on the new arrivals. I would add in Mac as well.

In any case this episode is in my top 5. Arguably top 2. The pace seemed a bit faster than I remember. Tons of satisfying
reveals and yet lots left to look forward to discovering.
I'm not buying Simmons being Hydra. I think they just needed to acknowledge that if Bobbie says anyone working for Hydra could be brainwashed without knowing it, then that's a creepy thought for Simmons.

Plus, Bobbie had the kind of security clearance within Hydra that would probably have let her know if Simmons had been brainwashed. So it wouldn't make much sense unless it were both of them.
What a great episode. I'm loving Kyle McLachlan! A good amount of crazy in that awful suit.
This was 8 consistently great episodes in a row for me. I can't recall that in a Whedonverse show? I really liked Dollhouse S2, but the baby episode didn't work for me emotionally so this show is winning right now in terms of numbers.

Things to love:

- Dichen!
- Kyle Maclachlan!
- Brett!

I find it amusing Ward went from being the slightly dull, emotionally closed off guy in season one openers to being the most emotionally complex, opposite-of-dull person in the show. I think Jed and Maurissa have very good skills in repositioning things. I'd never play chess with them, I'd end up $1000 down and waking up in Cuba somehow.
Real life is crimping my geek this week. I finally saw the ep and loved it. Here's my very brief take:

1. Ward, Whitehall andMcLaughlin and Dichen rocked. Do we know Skye's parents' names?
2. I fretted that I wouldn't keep up with Marvel mythogy after last week's city reveal, but I was able to follow fine. I'm Marvel clueless, even with my encyclopedia, I'm always concerned. The writers hit it out of the park.
3. Crazy Kyle was in a Australia because he had same idea as Coulson. Way up the thread, I think someone asked.
4. IDK about anyone being Hydra but I doubt it's Simmons unless it's against her will. If she is brainwashed, she could have tipped Crazy Kyle? Did she know?

Overall great ep - great season so far., though I misses watching with the folks of this thread.
I find it a little odd that Whitehall is keeping company with not one, but two people who want to betray him. I'm betting he has prepared for the double crosses.
Crazy Kyle was in a Australia because he had same idea as Coulson. Way up the thread, I think someone asked.

I'm sorry, that doesn't cut it... Remember, Australia is a BACKUP site. If Shield hadn't knocked out the facility in Hawaii, the Australian facility would have been useless. So unless Doctor CrazyPants KNEW that Shield was taking that facility down there would be no point of going there.

Furthermore, when Tripp first sees the Hydra soldier in the Australia facility, he yells "Ambush," and then takes him down.

So if there is no mole, then this is a plot hole big enough to fly a Quinjet through.

[ edited by Penthos on 2014-11-19 15:36 ]
If there's really a mole on the team, that would be huge. I don't think that the lack of a specific explanation for why the Hydra team was in Australia is enough to "carry" that big a development; I'd expect to see other, more significant occurrences point to the existence of a mole.

Maybe we'll see such occurrences. But the "betrayal from within" theme has already been sounded by Ward, and unless the second betrayal were to be even greater, I don't think that it would succeed dramatically.
Simmons isn't brainwashed. If she was, the writers wouldn't have lampshaded the idea by having her react with a self-conscious "oh!" when Bobbi mentioned that anyone who'd been inside Hydra could be "compliant."

I considered Mack, but it can't be him either. He's been questioning Coulson's leadership and sanity too much for somebody trying not to arouse suspicions of his loyalty.

I don't think there's any mole within Coulson's team. They can only go to that well so often, and they've already done it with May (reporting to Fury) and Ward and Garrett (being Hydra). At least they need to let that trope lie fallow for a couple of seasons.

(And if Tripp was Hydra, I think Ward or Garrett would have ratted him out by now... especially with Ward on a mission to deliver Hydra "presents" to Coulson.)
It's a little coincidental that SHIELD and Hydra showed up there at the same time, but it doesn't bother me that they both went there. Yeah, it's the backup site. That means it has less security. So Doctor Dad had the same idea as Coulson.

I'm guessing his plan was to set up his tech first, then knock out the main site, as opposed to Coulson's plan of taking out the main site first.

As for Mac and his doubts, they're perfectly reasonable. He literally watched his boss go insane. Of course he has doubts! We know that Coulson is all better now, but I can understand why someone would need a little convincing after a doctor said to him, "Would you please be a dear and hold this man down for me?"

[ edited by Jason_M_Bryant on 2014-11-19 15:55 ]
So we are pretty sure that the Doctor is mortal/human? He has aged, but Dichen hasn't. There's some mystery to him we haven't been given yet, but I bet we only have to wait two weeks for that.

Moles and spies are a huge staple of the spy genre. You're always questions who's a double or triple agent. It might be considered going to the well, but the fear of spies and moles should always be a concern for a spy show.
@gossi - This was 8 consistently great episodes in a row for me. I can't recall that in a Whedonverse show?

I have to make a passionate case for BtVS Season 3 - the 11-episode run between "Lover's Walk" and "Earshot" is especially amazing (even if "Gingerbread" is a touch off). And then there's Season 5.

But this season of AoS is really good, I agree!

[ edited by javelina on 2014-11-19 17:17 ]
So we are pretty sure that the Doctor is mortal/human?

No, the Doctor is a Time Lord. :-P

Kidding. Serious response ... I'm pretty sure he's also Inhuman, or whatever Dichen's mom is. Remember, he and/or Dichen destroyed an entire village after losing their daughter. I'm not totally clear on the timeline (was it before or after Dichen's death?), but he's supposed to be one of the "monsters" who destroyed the village ... I think he has some major powers that we haven't seen yet.

Also, I'm not up on all the Marvel mythology, but I think Inhumans have different types of powers? They seem to be kind of like mutants, in that they all have powers of some kind, but the powers differ from one person to another. So that could explain him aging and her being ageless. (Also, their powers are only activated when they're exposed to Terragen, which explains why Skye has no powers yet).

[ edited by erendis on 2014-11-19 17:17 ]

[ edited by erendis on 2014-11-19 17:17 ]
@chrisobrien - actually, you've made me realize something I hadn't considered ... There's something weird about the timeline that must have implications towards Dr. CrazyPants

MamaSkye was killed AFTER Whitehall was released from prison by Pearce, which was at least 45 years after he first found her and also AFTER Skye was born. Thus, it had to be "fairly" recently. Yet when Dr. CrazyPants finds MamaSkye dead in the woods, HE looks much younger than he does now.

So, if Dr. CrazyPants is alien or inhuman, why has he aged SO much in the relatively short amount of time since he found MamaSkye dead?

[ edited by Penthos on 2014-11-19 17:25 ]
Oh, good point, Penthos. Though, on the other hand, Skye's about 20 ... 20 years could conceivably age someone that much, especially if they were living a difficult life.

Still, it gives one something to ponder.
@erendis ... sure, lets say Skye is 24... MamaSkye didn't age A DAY in the 45 years that Whitehall was in prison. Yet Dr. CrazyPants aged a lot in the 20ish years since he found his wife dead. Just something to consider.
Maybe Doctor Crazypants let himself age?

Also... what if the mole is Fitz? zomg! Could have been done to him while he was recovering from what Ward did.
Twenty some years of actual living can age a person. The Kyle MacLachlan of Twin Peaks was only 23 years ago. Go look at pictures.

I figure Whitehall was incarcerated in 1945, got out 45 years later in 1990 around the same time Skye was born (and Twin Peaks was on TV). It is now 24 years later. What doesn't add up?
ok I give; Simmons probably isn't hydra. I agree. But maybe they're working up to a storyline where she questions whether she is...? or maybe not. Maybe they're just being funny/ maintain in character continuity. It was a really nice moment.

As for the idea that not!Skye's dad went to Australia with the idea of getting their tech in place THEN taking out Hawaii, that....seems like a much better idea than Coulson's. Actually.

And I agree that this season is fantastic!! what I love about it is that it's all continuity/ no monster of the week, which I don't know if I can think of another show I've watched that's done that, ever. The world is full of good monster/crime of the week episodes, but I still really sit through those parts for the character development and larger arc storyline, so to have a show that's nothing but that is like a dream come true. Now I'm trying to think of other shows that have done that-- anyone?EDIT: okay now that I'm all the way awake I can think of tons actually but I still like this one the best ;)

[ edited by aphasia on 2014-11-19 19:37 ]
Cable dramas, aphasia. Lots of them. Everything on HBO, Showtime, AMC, Starz and FX for starters.
@IrrationaliTV I was thinking the same thing. Kyle really did look that young 20 years ago. In fact, my Twin Peaks heart skipped a beat during the crushing flashback.

I'm ok with Dr. Crazy Pants thinking the same as Coulson. It compliments the whole who is a better Skye daddy theme. He is an equal to Cousin -intellectually but is he the better man?

Oh this is going to be good.

ps @aphasia - Lost right?

[ edited by hann23 on 2014-11-19 18:50 ]
I don't see the confusion about Kyle's age. He looks about twenty five years older than he did in 1989, which is how he should look. He ages, Dichen doesn't. Right?

My confusion is how the events we saw last night fit together (or not) with the story we got about Skye's parents and the village in China, last season. As I recall, SHIELD found Skye as a baby in a massacred Chinese village and the assumption was that Skye's parents did it, but I don't get where Skye was and how this all happened and how it fits with Kyle's discovery of Dichen's body at the end. Did he assume the other villagers killed her and then went back to kill them all?
Squishy, that all seems like a real good topic in an upcoming episode. I don't think we are supposed to understand any of that yet. Mysteries!
@Squishy-A few episodes ago Ward told Skye that those people weren't villagers, they were HYDRA, which seems to be true now that we know Whitehall killed Skye's mother. Daddy must have given into his full anger and slaughtered them. Somehow before they were killed a SHIELD team managed to steal Skye away and put her in the foster system. Last season all but one of the agents that saved Skye was dead, they were likely picked off by the Hydra within SHIELD.

@aphasia-Lost, Orphan Black, seasons 2,3,4 of Legend of Korra off the top of my head.

[ edited by Dusk on 2014-11-19 19:08 ]
@irrationaliTV - I guess the reason is because I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that Skye's dad is the same "thing" as Skye's mom, and therefore would not age. Maybe that's my problem, I assumed that because MamaSkye didn't age, none of the others where are like her (Skye, Raina, Dr. CrazyPants) would age either. Clearly, I'm assuming too much. Maybe they aren't all the same thing, or maybe they are the same but they don't all have the same abilities. The Marvel wiki says that inhumans get powers from the terrigan mists, but that the powers differ for each inhuman.

Either way, exactly what they all are and what powers/abilities that implies are things I'm dying to find out. Love this series, hope its on forever.
"Possibly the most consistent Whedon season since Buffy season 3." - eddy

My initial thought was to agree, but after reflection, I would actually compare it to season 5. Season 3 does have a few less-than-awesome one shots (like "Beauty and the Beasts"), whereas season 5 is more arc-focused throughout. It's also my favorite, so the comparison is a compliment. I am so, so happy to finally be able to love AoS without reservation!
I would say that the run of excellent episodes stretches back all the way to "Turn Turn Turn" last season... and at least definitely including the season finale.

As for Mac and his doubts, they're perfectly reasonable. He literally watched his boss go insane. Of course he has doubts!

I'm not faulting him for having doubts... I'm saying that his open expression of those doubts excuses him from suspicion of being a Hydra mole.
My favorite thing: not drawing out the "I shouldn't have said Phil" beat. (I should say my favorite thing in my favorite scene.)
If we go by the comics, the Inhumans age (though I don't know if ALL of them do - I don't know enough about the series). Black Bolt was kept in a soundproof chamber until he was 19. Maybe for SHIELD, the mythology is certain Inhumans grow up but stop aging eventually, with each person stopping at a certain point based on his or her own genetic makeup.

We've not seen Raina in any other time period, have we? Doc looked about the right age for a) having a daughter who is roughly Skye's age and b) having found Dichen's character in the late 80s.
My favorite thing: not drawing out the "I shouldn't have said Phil" beat. (I should say my favorite thing in my favorite scene.)

All of MacLachlan's scenes and lines have been great. His run on AoS so far is the best thing I've seen from him in 20 years.

If I didn't know better, I'd swear Joss was ghostwriting his dialogue.
Thanks, Dusk. I had either forgotten or didn't notice that Ward said the villagers were actually hydra agents. (Who mistakes dead hydra agents for dead villagers?)
Maybe the agents were undercover, dressed as villagers?
The redacted SHIELD documents about Skye entering the foster care system from Season 1 were from 1989, which seems to work out
perfectly with last night. Chloe is 2 years younger than the part which may have have muddied things up.
Maybe the divined ones stop aging after they touch the diviner.
I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this already, but I wonder if all is as it seems with Ward killing his brother and mother. It just seems like a very extreme thing to just be such a quick throw away moment in the episode. And of course we didn't see it happen. What a great episode though, loved all the back story and how everything is connected. They've built on the good work of the tail end of last season and hit a really high gear with this season!

[ edited by Toivo on 2014-11-20 00:15 ]
I personally think that Coulson's version of the plan to hijack the Air Force satellites, while very Mal-like in its reliance on things going a certain way to allow for maximum success, is actually the better of the two due to being less casualty-intensive.

I mean, if the HYDRA plan (for want of a better description) is 1) get a remote access device connected to the equipment at the Australian backup facility (presumably do it without raising suspicion); 2) get main Hawaii facility offline and wait for Australia to take up slack; 3) hijack satellites to do scans for the city, then the question of "How will HYDRA force the Hawaii facility to go offline?" needs to be asked...and I figure the answer is "Stage another fake SHIELD attack (like the one on the UN meeting with Talbot), and maim or kill Air Force personnel as needed for the diversion and sabotage."

Coulson's plan allowed for maximum effect for zero casualties, as long as no interference was encountered, through everything happening at once and using non-lethal sabotage methods like EMP devices. The only problem was HYDRA being there and throwing the plan out the window.

[ edited by BlueEyedBrigadier on 2014-11-20 02:00 ]
You know a episode is good when you're still thinking about what happened in it the next day.
loads of things happened this ep! I loved seeing Peggy and Dichen, very sad about her fate though.

now I'm wondering if the monsters that killed the village were hydra or skye's dad.

a good theory is that of the obelisk/diviner as of inhuman origin such as a terrigen bomb. "blue angels" would mean the kree who were the ones who experimented and created the inhumans in the first place and wanted to conquer/end the human race. so it follows that only those with inhuman genes can touch it, but i dont know if it would activate their powers so easily. in comics at least the process is painful,complicated and not everyone survives.

i wonder if they village they lived in was an inhuman village. or if it started as one at least. maybe the diviner says who will survive the terrigen process? or at least who has a relevant amount of inhuman gene?

I'm approaching Epileptic trees heres, but I'm excited, I love the inhumans!
@eddy - Yes. Still thinking about the episode. Finally got a chance to rewatch it, and the details do what they should. You get answers, but far more questions, in a good way. I hate that we have to wait till Dec. 2 for the next episode.
I believe Mack's concern about Coulson is reasonable - didn't most of the team question him in Providence? And I quite like Hunter's "Cordelia-ness", which the writers established the first episode we met him.

I really really hope Simmons hasn't been brainwashed, and is just thinking back to what she saw happen to Donnie in front of her. I loved her fangirling over Peggy Carter.

The timeline text said Skye's mother was killed 1989 and Skye's orphanage documents date to 1990 so that ~ lines up.

Maybe the divined ones stop aging after they touch the diviner.

I was thinking that, so perhaps Raina will stop aging now that she's touched it, or each "special one" has their own power. Have we seen Skye's Dad touch the Diviner?
@oakley-There were no villagers. Ward told Skye they were really a bunch of Hydra agents that were killed (O assume by Daddy). Before that SHIELD somehow took Skye away to foster care.

Doubt it was an Inhuman village because then SHIELD would already know about them and even a lesser village probably has more advanced tech then regular humans would.
I watch the episode a day late, so I can't participate in the commenting fun, but I love reading you all's reactions -- it's like watching it again.
I usually have to watch late, too, jcs. I work most Tuesday nights.
I usually log in here right after the episode ends, and I still feel like I've missed most of the conversation.

I just can't do the liveblogging thing. Too distracting.
I'm not sure how a mole could explain DrDad''s presence in Australia, given how closely Coulson guarded the various parts to his plan. Australia wasn't mentioned until they were preparing to leave Hawaii, iirc. So, unless Coulson himself is the mole...

ETA: upon rewatch, I believe DrDad just happened to be nearby -- he says to Coulson that he expected SHIELD to be "close but not that close" or something to that effect, and that both were thinking along the same lines re: how to find the city.

Now I have new questions: in 1945, Dichen's character was in Austria, about to be mistreated by Reinhart/Whitehall before the Allies swooped in. 44 years later, after his release, Reinhart returns to the same location in Austria and, lo and behold, Dichen is still there to be found. Or else they brought her from somwehere else (China?) ... and they did this both times, in '45 and '89? And once Reinhart had finished his experimentation, her body had to be dumped... did they really bother to take it all the way back where she started so that young Kyle M. could find her body? Or did he track her abduction to Austria? I'm okay with the timeline for all this action, but the geography is weird (or maybe Hydra doesn't mind spending lots of money on frivolous travel).

Perhaps these issues are addressed in the spoilery articles that have been posted, but I'm avoiding them.

[ edited by tomg on 2014-11-20 20:39 ]
They really packed a lot in that episode. Also it was really good.
Those who were wondering about whether Skye's Dad is human- when he is meeting Whitehall and talking about the obelisk, he almost backs into it and is very quick to step away. Suggests to me that he is human.
I love watching all these crazy people together and that scene with the two brothers was so well done.
I recall finding that scene interesting, the way he avoided touching it. I just assumed he didn't want to because he didn't want to give away that he's one of the few that can. But that's an intriguing idea that it's because he's just a regular unspecial human.

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