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Whedonesque - a community weblog about Joss Whedon
"I wouldn't let you near an Active no sooner I would let a mad dog near a child."
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January 06 2015

(SPOILER) Get to know the characters of Marvel's Agent Carter. Includes a nice picture of Enver Gjokaj as Daniel Sousa, plus some details of the character's backstory (this is also a thread for posters wanting to chat about the show - Simon).

I'm calling it now: Sousa's gonna get recruited by Hydra in exchange for fixing his legs, and Angie's gonna turn out to be a spy sent to watch Peggy.
So excited. Is everyone going to be here tonight?
I don't think we're going to have regular discussion threads for this, the way we have for AoS, javelina. That doesn't mean we can't discuss it in this thread, though.

I think the only way we would get a regular thread for this series, is if Joss writes an episode.

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-01-06 21:38 ]
It's bound to have some impact on SHIELD, plus having Enver, so more posts like this are likely to come for the next little while and those of us that want can use them like we do the regular SHIELDS threads.
So we meet here tonight? 😃
I'm not really a live commentator but I may be able to pop in during the commercials and afterward with my impressions. If/when their is a SHIELD tie in it's likely Jed and Maurissa would be interviewed about it so we can make threads around that too, should it happen.
So, unless Sunfire or another mod opens up an actual thread, I am willing to be the scrappy little stalwart who waits in a thread all by herself, hoping others will show up and play with me. 👀
Tie I would want: Patton Oswalt is a peice of the tech stolen from Howard Stark. LMD it up!

Wish for when SHIELD comes back: We've already had a musical montage of Simmons's morning routine. For the opening scene in March I want a musical montage of Ward's routine set to Weird Al's Party in the CIA.
We won't have episode threads for Agent Carter. But you can discuss the first episode here.
Also if you're on Twitter, we could have a tag there. I wouldn't post any spoilers from the Whedonesque Twitter but other people could livetweet their reactions there.
Twitter is so limiting, but that may be an alternative.
Not on Twitter, I'll just stay here.
We'll find a loophole thread somewhere here each week. 🙊

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-01-06 22:42 ]
We're not going to be covering Agent Carter all that much, so you could just bookmark this thread for your weekly check-in. There might not be a loophole every week.
Bookmarked, it is.
Aaaarrrrrggghhhh - Comcast informs me that cable is out until ... 11:12 pm CST (nice of them to be so specific)
That sounds awful HYDRA-ish of them.
11:12 pm? Makes me wonder what they'll be doing at 11:07, and 12:43.
I'll be here, prepared to be the stood-up date. But then there's the show, so yeah!

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-01-07 02:01 ]
Cap! :D And I already love Enver in this!

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-01-07 02:08 ]
Hi, Nebula! Just the two of us?
And yes, Enver is amazing as ever. So far I'm loving all the casting.
I think so, javelina. We'll have lots of fun!

I already like this show! And did Enver steal the scene he was in or what?
Jarvis doesn't walk out of the shadows as smooth as Coulson did...
I know they were scenes from the movie, but it was cool to see Chris Evans in the opening.
Yay! Dusk!

ETA: Lol!

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-01-07 02:13 ]
So season one is clear Howard's name?
Dominic Cooper looks younger every time I see him. Next episode, he'll be in diapers.
Hello, TTP! Hopefully only Episode 1 is to clear Stark's name.

And Enver steals it again!
Enver is so cute, I can't.

Hopefully. Really, I wouldn't mind first three episodes be clear his name, but it'd be nice to move on to other things.

Also, it's going to take a while for me to get over everyone's clothes and hair. I just LOVE.
Andre Royo!! And I agree, I trust this won't be Howard Stark: The Miniseries.
It may be stop the larger scheme from the Stark thief, maybe something like AIM?
I like it, so far. And I know they are courting boy hormones, but she is dazzling!
Enver can't help stealing scenes, even from Ms. At well, which is quite a feat.

So far this is crazy stylish and snappy and I am totally happy.
I am really loving James D'Arcy in this. "Is it by any chance glowing?" "Yes!" "That's not ideal."
So much for her roommate.
Now she's gonna have to cover all the rent too. She can't catch a break!
Poor roommate. Now she'll have that guilt to deal with too.
I'm actually pretty upset about it.
Oh, WELL done, show, on excellent use of common household products plus added terrifying suspense.

Hayley Atwell is kicking ass.
And yes, am very unhappy about roommate.

Who will the waitress turn out to be?
I was looking forward to some light lying-to-roommate drama!!!
Who is the bad actor? Or - bad guy actor?

Love the jury-rigged typewriter.
For a second there I got a flash to the potluck party and clone drama fun from Orphan Black. Oh well.

Steve flashbacks should only be a few.
This is a show I will be rewatching. It just has that rewatching-ness about it.
There was a typewriter like that on Fringe.
Leviathan is coming. Great! Something else I have to look up now!

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-01-07 03:01 ]
Cannot wait to meet Jarvis's wife.
That was awesome!
Hopefully Danny get the camera.

We know Howard's not evil so what's his deal?

Robo-voice was a surprise.
One-finger typist.
The 1946 version of texting.
I wonder if Danny is a spy for Hydra, or whatever Leviathan is. He's too likable.
We just saw the Simmons prototype.
It's the actor who played Leland Palmer!! Clearly evil.
Well, we've seen the ice-dispensing steward one too many times. Something is up.
Either the steward or the ice is dicey.
I really actually hope Danny is in his 'I'm not used to not being out on the field. I'm not used to being behind a desk.' meek kind of phase. I really don't want the only guy giving Peggy her credit to be working for Leviathan or something. I sort of want him to really settle well into being a desk agent, into becoming good at intelligence and paper trails and all that.
TG they did this as a 2 hr. premiere.
Nebula, I'm keeping an eye on the agent who sipped that drink ...

And agreed, y'all, I hope Danny's not Hydra.

Bites nails.
LOL that the best visual pun I've seen in a long while
I don't want Danny to be Ward, either. We need more than one or two likable characters on the show.
Add me to the list of people really don't want Danny or Angie to be a Ward.
Two hours has gone by fast!
Seriously a fast 2 hours. Marred in my case by spouse doing a long business call in the same room. Will have to rewatch on Hulu next week. Oh, the first world-ness of my problems.
Jarvis argues to include Scoobies in her work.
LOL @ javelina. Kick your husband out next time!
And now, the world premiere of a commercial.
I thought that was a great startup to this series.Love the interaction between Peggy and Jarvis.The action was pretty kickass and thesetup for the series was very good.

Also liked the Ant-Man trailer.
Yeah. All in all, not a bad evening. It was fun, friends! We'll find a way to continue this next week, even if it's by bookmarking this thread for future use!
Pretty good. Steam-punk spying.

The license plate is a problem but Peggy's in real trouble if the milk driver gets a look at her. Other scientist may or may not know her from just before the flash. No Ant-Man trailer for Canadians *sigh*.

Jarvis's wife has after hour requirements too and he is also fascinated by extending antenna.

[ edited by Dusk on 2015-01-07 04:07 ]
Jarvis's wife must be someone of other significance, since he is doing everything for her (as well as Stark) at a time when men tending to home almost never happened.

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-01-07 04:16 ]
Some interesting stuff comes up in the search for Leviathan.
The heart with a banner across it looks like a tattoo to me.

Also, the showrunners of this were producers and writers on Dollhouse, and Enver was on Dollhouse... so that's a plausible three-way loophole right there!
Hey, even the AV Club loved it and they are one of the harder places on SHIELD (Intelligent commentators not trolls most of the time).

[ edited by Dusk on 2015-01-07 05:40 ]
We need Joss (or another Whedon?) to write or direct an episode, so we can keep it going on Whedonesque. Too much of this series is/will be related to the series we can discuss on here.
Hayley Atwell will be on Jimmy Kimmel later in tonight's show.
Bookmarked, it is.

I'll put it in the sidebar on the front page for ease of access.
Oh goody, these two eps were so much fun. I'm glad to see a not quite discussion discussion..

Loving Peggy and Jarvis and just the whole post World War II bit. It's all so pretty. Though that stapler was clearly from the 1980s, IMO.
Peggy and Jarvis are awesome together. He's gotten a taste of adventure and he wants more! She thinks she'll get him killed! He has more cars to destroy!

I know we heard a woman's voice off screen, but I'm wondering if the wife is not really a wife at all. What if he's taking care of a LMD that Stark built? "I owe my wife a souffle" is code for "this robot needs a new primary buffer panel."
I was wondering the same thing @ the ninja report because clearly they are building something between the two of them and it would be awful if he's really married. It's some kind of cover.
Peggy is so awesome - I wanna be her when I grow up.

Death so soon, angsty! Love that she has her issues - and allowing her moments to show her emotions truly rounds out her character (sometimes writers try to toughen a character so much - especially female ones - they forget they're human).

I know Howard isn't a main character but I really hope he will pop up from time to time and now just over the phone with Jarvis acting all secret and suspicious.

Sort've slipped my mind that Enver was part of this - so was pleasantly surprised.

Excited for the next episode (wish they're all two hours long).
That's awesome of you, Simon. I think there will be more Whedony overlap in the show, plus, it's like a placeholder for our AoS parties. Thanks!
Finally had a chance to catch up on this over lunch - reallyreally entertaining .... Hayley Atwell is so good in this, and as others have mentioned, her interplay w/ Jarvis can be a lot of fun. I like the fact it's basically an eight hour miniseries, so I'm hopeful the Leviathan plot line evolves quickly.

The casual sexism makes sense, but I hope it evolves over time - if not this run, than perhaps another miniseries? Agent Carter does after all ultimately help found SHIELD so I'd also like to see that side of her - in charge and making stuff happen

BTW - for those interested in such things - Garnered a 1.9 rating, not too shabby
Thank you, Simon! I agree with Nebula, there's bound to be overlap: Trip's grandfather, maybe, and definitely Hydra, et al. And somewhere in here the founding of S.H.I.E.L.D.
I also think, if this series comes back next year, we may see some Mutant Enemy writers in there. It's just one of those shows where it is likely to happen.
That was really good! Loved the Captain America radio show gag.
Killing the roomie was a real tip of the hat to Whedon, don't you think? She's essentially Jesse from "Welcome to the Hellmouth."
"I also think, if this series comes back next year, we may see some Mutant Enemy writers in there."

Showrunners Tara Butters & Michele Fazekas were also the showrunners for Dollhouse's second season. And Jose Molina, who was a writer/executive story editor on Firefly, is a member of the writing staff. A few months ago I was watching Ariel and hoping he'd be brought in on something Marvel related. I looked him up to see what he was up to and was pleasantly surprised.
Thank you Simon! I thought it was really fun. The props/art director did an excellent job. And Enver, wonderful! Peggy/Jarvis are like the Avengers (I mean the *other* Avengers, with Emma Peel).
Thank you, JesusSavedIn01. Had a momentary brain fart there! What I meant was "more Mutant Enemy writers." 😏
But Nebula. If we bring in lots of NEW writers and convert them to Mutant Enemy writers soon we will control the WGA ! Make it happen dagnabbit !
And then take over the world...

That's the plan, JDL!
"I'll put it in the sidebar on the front page for ease of access."

Thnks Simon.
Almost time! Before Mutant Enemy takes over the world/Marvelverse, we somehow need to get the Emmy's to recognize Tatiana Maslany! Seriously she plays nine characters and often entire scenes with herself, and not even a nomination yet! What more does she need to do?!
Yes! Our party continues!
I want moer clakity evil typewriter of DOOM!
Worst. Date. Evar!
I agree. Dusk. Name a role that Titiana Maslany, or any actress can get that's nearly as challenging, and not to be honored with at least a nomination?

What are the symbols Peggy is looking at? Greek? Zodiac?
Breakfast buffet... and a lecture. :(
Challange accepted?
That combination is never good, roddikin.
Still no glimpse of the wife ....
"That combination is never good, roddikin."

Aw, mom!
The invisible wife will be a running gag forever. I hope.
Jarvis is good at the unflappable thing.
And at covering for Peggy.
So Daniel... Hydra spy? The Howling Commando who Stark had assigned there to cover for Peggy, and who ahe ends up marrying? A straight arrow who rats on Peggy and gets her into a lot of trouble?
That friend was right, starting a conversation with Houdini is never a good sign...

And now Peggy's got a time limit to break into a vault that was already broken into and then make like she was never there!

Nebula, did you follow the OB news a few days ago?
And Peg is there to ... redirect?
Unflappable? Jarvis has a past!
I'm just so 'meh' if this is going to be the extent of Jarvis' wife's involvement.
Dusk: What's the OB?
Nice save Peg. But it will cost her.
Orphan Black ?
Wait... what did she say that spoiled the interrogation? I didn't catch it.
The Wife is like Maris from Frasier.

What did Jarvis do that was so dishonorable? Peggy bit the workforce clique bullet there!

And yes Orphan Black. Some S3 news was teased about the new characters and critics saw a promo which sites have described.
She "found" the missing stolen car report. They had an excuse to hold him because the report was "lost."
Oh, no. I have not read the news on OB. Will have to after this is over.
"Mr. Stark believes brushing your teeth requires advanced technological assistance." Heh.
Nice save, Peggy.

Wondering if Bradley Whitford character that we saw in the short might come into play in the series.
DJ Shadow in a Chevy advert?

Also. schnapps? And a chick from Iowa. Tropey
Boom, escape.
Wow, this guy is a douchehat.
Letters of transit. Ha.
Ewwwww, dis the disabled guy. Hate him.

Also: shark in a skirt. Ha.
I like the exposition.
Hey, that love story explanation was pretty well done it could have come off totally corny.
Oh NO. Poor Sousa. He probably already has what Krezminski said in his head already, just didn't have the words, and now that Krezminski gave them to him, they're probably going to live in his head for a long time.
I'm finding I can't write/respond and watch at the same time. I miss to many details!

Love the reason for the treason.

Now in the Daniel is the guy camp, though Peggy is too wrapped up in her own world to notice.
Nebula, afterwards check these:
I was thinking the same thing, Nebula, about Danny being in the guy camp. But then he spends more than five minutes there and then it seems like he's still not really in the guy camp. More like, well, you're here and there's no one else who does this job/on this shift, so yeah, come play. (But you're still not cool.)
Thanks, Dusk. Sort of let real life get in the way of my geekdom for a few days.
HA. His fake American accent is amazingly bad.
I will call it in, and they will respect me! No they wont.

I want to start calling people with "Hey Mac!"

The guy who watched them was in a suit and hat, not a sweatshirt, two problems.
"More like, well, you're here and there's no one else who does this job/on this shift, so yeah, come play. (But you're still not cool.)"

That's how it works. :(
Maybe, TenTonP, but he's going to be a much more important character. They didn't cast him for office diversity.
"HA. His fake American accent is amazingly bad."

Sounded a bit Malchavich to me.
A witness is a problem.
.... who's the guy in the hat?!
And problem solved
OK. Now I'm completely flummoxed.
Erendis, I've seen someone already put forth the theory that it's Dottie, based on the silhouette being so slender.
Well that escalated quickly! Am I a bad person for being glad Peggy's cover wasn't blown?
Could be Dottie. Good theory.
Not sad, nope, not even a bit. Triplett he ain't.
That would be fun.
"I'll call his wife."

"I'll call his girlfriend."
Did you hear the trill in the music at the sound of Daniel's voice though?

Really who scores this? I cared zilch for Ray and yet this music made me want to cry a little.
Did they just say the new episode is January 27? There isn't one next week?
Two weeks? Oh, f--k! State of the Union address?
He is basically Peggy's version of the girl Angel didn't save in City Of.
Thanks a lot, Obama.
Who cares about that? I want my Agent Carter, dammit. *grumbles*
I really enjoyed tonight's episode.
This is why we got 2 hours of it last week.

Man, we all know life sucks now. This is me sounding like a space cadet TV addict, but I need a dose of 1946 feminism to forget about my fibromyalgia for a little while. Wednesday I'll go participate in a die-in somewhere to make up for it.

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-01-14 04:06 ]
TenTonParasol, I think the soundtrack is by Christopher Lennertz.
Next week, at 8 pm, this episode will rerun before the Presidential Preempt.
This was more of a character episode. There wasn't a whole lot of plot in terms of baddies, but set-up for character arcs, and to push Peggy into a dangerous position, where she will have to face treason charges, which kind of mirrors events in history, where people who were instrumental in the fight against the Nazis were suddenly being blacklisted and accused of treason.

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-01-14 04:18 ]
Maybe it'll cheer you up a bit to look at those OB links Nebula! ;)
well that was a great episode! i want to give peggy a hug and a medal and a museum and and and.... hayley's doing an amazing job and it's all going so well, this show is so wonderful.
i'm only upset i have to wait two weeks
LOL! On my way there, now, Dusk!
Got there! So psyched for not winter to happen!
Really digging this show - in a way it's almost as if the plot/bad guys are incidental. Just the whole 40's vibe, the scenery, the folks lurking in shadows, the interplay between Peggy and Jarvis. Oh yeah and Hayley is just ...... radiant

BTW: kudos on the Dottie theory. I noticed the assassin had a slight build but didn't go there. Even better: her waitress pal is the killer and Dottie's been sent by Stark to keep an eye on her? Reminds me of the bit from The Sting
Seems very smartly written. I am enjoying this immensely. The scene where Jarvis showed why she couldn't be a hero was both
unexpected and well done. And it made Jarvis become more of a force to be reckoned with.
Plus, it's becoming more than apparent that Jarvis was never only Howard Stark's butler. There is something much more there that predates his butler duties (which he rarely seems around to perform).

He just shouldn't ever pretend to be an American again!
I have to say I was presently surprised when Jarvis got his butt handed to him by the goon in the warehouse. Not because I wanted to see him get beaten, but because the writers avoided the cliche of the Proper English Butler Who Is More Than He Seems To Be, astonishing those around him by pulling out some crazy Jason Bourne special forces ninja moves when confronted with an attacker.

Seriously... you wouldn't think that would be a cliche, but it is.

And even Peggy doesn't suddenly turn into Xena and start flipping guys with her pinkie finger... she fights the way a regular person with government agent training, and some field experience, would fight.

I figure Leviathan had Krzeminski and the warehouse goon assassinated because they could place Peggy Carter at the warehouse and thus compromise her position within SSR. They want her to continue as an active agent so they can work her for information through their agent... who I thought was Angie the waitress, but that kind of seems too obvious now. She's been too persistent with pressing Peggy to talk about her job.

I do suspect Dottie is a white hat, sent by Stark to watch Peggy's back. And I hope we get to see a lot more of her... I've kind of been in love with Bridget Regan since Legend of the Seeker.
Love how Peggy fights - really tough but still gets taken down by a beefy guy when hit straight on. She wants so bad for them to acknowledge her *feels*

I called Krezminski getting killed. I think he might've made a funny char but with the serious tone the show is going on, really didn't surprise me that they chose him.
Ratings are in - Agent Carter dipped to a 1.5, off .4 from the premiere. A drop was to be expected, now it's just a matter of if it's leveled off or will it continue to fall. It's somewhat moot as we knew going in it was an eight episode mini-series ... I'm just hoping the ratings justify another greenlight for more next year. Three episodes in and I'm fully onboard with this character and this world
I was expecting a ratings dip but this was about 2 tenths more than I would have predicted. I'm starting to
wonder if the new pattern is live watching the premiere followed by time-shifting thereafter.

[ edited by JDL on 2015-01-14 19:59 ]
Does anyone else think Krzeminski was killed by a female assassin?
I thought so too, hpgwbtvs. There was a glimpse of an outline that looked like a woman. It was pretty fast though. I wasn't entirely sure of it.
Yeah, I thought they had a feminine outline, and I rewatched the ending, and they were wearing high heels. I wasn't sure if I was reading too much into it. In the comics, Natasha was sent to kill Anton Vanko when he decided to defect (however, according to IM2 he remained loyal to Russia). And this latest episode had a lot of ties to Moscow... I'm just really hoping that it's Natasha or one of the other Black Widows produced from the Red Room.
The writers sort of debunked one theory that was kicking around about the killer:
As I said above, and in the other thread about the ABC head interview, I still am betting it's Dottie for the killer. This particular silhouette and she do first show up in the same episode. And ballet is totally Marvel code for 'assassin'

[ edited by TenTonParasol on 2015-01-15 03:54 ]
TenTonParasol, I thought the same thing when Peggy and Angie ran into her and it was revealed that Dottie is a ballet dancer. My only reasoning into thinking it's not her, is that Dottie was towering over Peggy, and Peggy and Krzeminski are similar in height in the screen shots they were both in. Where as the assassin appears to be a head shorter than Krzeminski and is definitely wearing heels.
The assassin is Molly, or a woman who hasn't shown up yet. Or a very slender not woman.
Hey, just finished and had to watch 2x to get everything. I drifted off the first time and missed key bits. One lesson learned is that I can't blow off the conversations the men are having with each other even over microphones. I missed the lie told about the police report and could not figure out why Jarvis was able to walk when he saw it. But the men had pretended not to have it amongst themselves.

I too watched the assassination scene twice. The killer definitely has a female vibe - she had a gate and stature that could be female. I have no idea who this killer is as I am not that familiar with Marvel verse.

Husband thinks that Jarvis's wife might be dead and he is hallucinating her. Maybe PTSD? Is she a factor in the comics? Is it spoilerish to discuss?

And I am probably reaching far far here but how about Enver's character last name being Sousa. It's not exactly like Soze from Usual Suspects but it raised a flag for me. It's probably nothing.

Overall I really am enjoying Peggy Carter. I hope we get to keep her.
I missed the lie told about the police report and could not figure out why Jarvis was able to walk when he saw it. But the men had pretended not to have it amongst themselves.

Except that this bit didn't actually make sense. They'd already said to Jarvis that they suspected the report was phony (i.e., that he'd called the car in as stolen after participating in the explosion; which was, in fact, what he did) so the fact that there was, actually, a stolen car report was really neither here nor there. And in any case they were moving on to simply blackmailing him to cooperate; the blackmail threat had nothing at all to do with whether or not he filed a stolen car report--they could still pull the trigger on that threat regardless. So in fact what Peggy's boss should have done when she blurted out that she had the stolen car report (in what really did amount to an act of such utter incompetence that she should have been sacked on the spot) was simply smile and say "yeah, we had this all along--but it's a bit late for that now, isn't it, Jarvis?"
Good point Yoink. I was trying to figure all that out and I'm glad I wasn't the only one who found his sudden walk a bit premature.

I think I was looking for some way to make sense of it and the lie helped but not really.

Plot moment needed to be tighter.
Plot moment needed to be tighter

Yeah, and it would have been easy to do. What it should have been was that they were giving Stark's high-paid lawyer the run-around, keeping him from getting to Jarvis, and Peggy found a way to screw that up, so that the lawyer walks in, does a bit of TV-lawyer "are you charging my client or does he walk right now?" bluster and out he goes.

It didn't help, by the way, that the "blackmail" was so transparently thin. Jarvis's reluctance to spill the beans to Agent Carter about it was just completely contrived. Why should he be all shamefaced and tongue-tied about forging some papers to rescue the woman he loved from the Nazis? Why shouldn't he have thrown that in the faces of the SSR agents when they were interrogating him? "You were dishonorably discharged!" "Yeah, and here's why! Blah de blah de blah..." I mean, they might still be able to get him deported on the strength of that, but it's hardly something he would be ashamed to have them talk to his wife about (quite the reverse) or be ashamed to tell Agent Carter.

UNLESS!--hey, what if the mysterious "wife" is actually a man, not a woman? Now that could be an interesting twist, and would account for considerable reticence around the case. But if the SSR agents knew that why wouldn't they use that as the blackmail against him?
You are so right Yoink. Something is up with "wife" and it played into that scene.

Maybe Anna is a boy - that's intriguing.
We heard his wife's voice in the most recent episode. She was offering to do to the dishes. She's pretty fascinating in the context of the show, so far. All signs suggest she is the dominant person in the relationship and Jarvis handles most or all of the domestic chores that women would traditionally handle. In a show all about gender norms skewing the other way. It certainly explains how easily he follows Peggy's lead when none of her colleagues will. He's willing to argue with her on specifics but he's got zero problems following a woman's lead.
We heard his wife's voice in the most recent episode. She was offering to do to the dishes.

True. But she could be a cross-dresser, perhaps, or transgender. Of course it's also possible that Jarvis's story will turn out to be a lie. I've seen some speculation online that the "wife" is actually Stark, which would make a certain kind of narrative sense.

It seems to me they've made enough of a mystery out of her that either it's simply going to be a running gag--like Columbo's wife who we keep hearing about and never see--or there's going to be some big reveal. It's hard to imagine what the "big reveal" could be if she's simply Anna-from-Budapest. My own money's on the running gag (leaving our minds to boggle at the various implied goings-on in the Jarvis menage), but that one snippet of conversation doesn't really rule out any of the dramatic-reveal options.
Maybe Jarvis's wife is the assassin.
It's back tonight. Excitement is building in me.
Party @ 9 pm. I'll bring drinks.

Water for everyone!
"Water for everyone!"

Energy bar; Consumed.
Atomic batteries to power! Turbines to speed! Ready to move out!
Interesting interview from a few days ago:
Let's get this party started!
Oooo, a swap goes bad.
Jarv with the double cross. And Stark returns.
Stark can dress up like a woman, and sneak into the Griffith.
Whoah, sneakin' about the basement.
OK. Someone already tried that.
The Aryan-looking guy is Hydra.
"Stark can dress up like a woman, and sneak into the Griffith."

And Tom Hanks flashbacks!
Mrs. Doubtfire Stark Edition.
"It is unSEEEmly for a young lady to read Freud..."

Cue Billy Joel, roddikinathome.
I hereby propose Miriam to head SHIELD's Internal Affairs Division.
Stark is totally slappable in this one.
So Peggy's worth at least 5 or 6 guys.....
Aren't all women, Numfar?
"Most likely both."

I totally thought Mr. Mink was Neil Patrick Harris for a second.

Also, go Sousa!
Indeed Nebula1400

[ edited by Numfar PTB on 2015-01-28 03:22 ]


My new favorite phrase!
"Stark is totally slappable in this one."

Nudie pix! Stark, you bad man.
Thinking more along the lines of the movies of the 1940's, roddikinathome.
"Thinking more along the lines of the movies of the 1940's"

Starting to wonder what happened to most of these toys at present time.

There's still a huge element from the timeline left untouched between the movies and tv episodes so far, which was the period in which Howard was still alive and Tony was growing up.
Blond picture still not working.


[ edited by roddikinathome on 2015-01-28 03:36 ]
HYDRA, or Leviathan?
Confrontation. Yup, he's a dick.
But, yeah. Jack Thompson could be Leviathan, though not to infiltrate SSR, but to stop Hydra. At least that's how I would write it. (Good thing I gave up on writing!)
They might have been in the Toy Store that Ward and Garret took over.
Does Steve Roger's blood need refrigeration? Did people refrigerate things in the 1940's?
Blood with super serum, let's just assume it works a bit differently, as in, it might not need refrigeration.
Yes, you were, TenTonParasol!
Oh noes Dotty !
Stan Lee annoying Howard Stark.
Well, figured. You cast Lindsay Fonseca and Briget Regan in a spy show, one of the would need to be such.
Really liked tonight's episode.
Will watch this episode at least twice more, as with the others.
In the MCU never trust anyone who admits to doing ballet...
Dottie is a Black Widow!
Damn good show - always impressed with just how good it all looks. For whatever technical reason it has a much more "movie" look than AoS.

Enjoyed the Dottie reveal (still not clear who's side she's on), enjoyed the Stan Lee cameo, and REALLY enjoyed the Peggy/Howard interplay. Some strong emotional stuff there -

Only distraction - Jarvis' "tell" may be the worst nervous tic I've ever seen. I thought he was gonna pull his ear clean off - LOL
There's something "smokey" (in a good way) about the way the show looks. The cinematography, which seems to be somewhat fuzzy and almost like a colorized old movie, and the lighting all make there series feel like the time period. So far, every aspect of the show is top quality.
Like the previous episodes, this one was great as well. Only 4 more episodes left. :( but on the plus side, we will get AoS back and be able to see Skye learning how to harness her powers.

Looking at the promo for 1x05, it looks like we may be getting to see the Red Room!

[ edited by hpgwbtvs on 2015-01-28 16:59 ]
There's something "smokey" (in a good way) about the way the show looks.

Except for the fact that it's 1946 and nobody smokes!

In real life, you would have needed a foghorn and a lighthouse to find your way around that SSR office.
LOL - that's exactly right AndrewCrossett. I remember working at an "old school" publishing group in the 80's. Meetings in a conference room always devolved into a horrible smoky haze. Often took a shower after coming home from work - the smell just clung to you.
Except for the fact that it's 1946 and nobody smokes!

In real life, you would have needed a foghorn and a lighthouse to find your way around that SSR office.

AndrewCrossett | January 28, 17:37 CET

LOL - that's exactly right AndrewCrossett. I remember working at an "old school" publishing group in the 80's. Meetings in a conference room always devolved into a horrible smoky haze. Often took a shower after coming home from work - the smell just clung to you.

TallMichaelJ | January 28, 19:17 CET

All of this! 😃
I loved the episode and I'm loving this whole series. The way it's filmed, the dialogue, the dresses, the make up, the blatant sexism, the characters, and the plot are all turning out to be so much fun. Yes, I'm even finding the misogyny fun as that lovely bit of life is right out in the open instead of buried away festering. I know it's not really good - it's just interesting to see a different manifestation.

Honestly, I forgot about the smoking. I can live without it. All work places were nonsmoking by the time that I started in the 90s. I am so so glad.

I am also very curious where they are going with the battle, or lack there of, on the Russian front. Are they introducing a new super villain? Or did Howard lend the Russians a very nasty toy to try on the Nazis? I hope they talk about the Russian front, as I find that part of WWII fascinating for some sick, demented reason. Maybe they'll work in Stalingrad.

I was actually impressed with how they carried off the Nazi at Nuremberg bit. I'm no WWII expert at all, but I was a bit nervous with how this scene would be played. I think everyone did a really good job -the setting was well done, the dialogue, and the "cyanide".

I especially appreciated the "Goering gives me a hickey" line that the chief threw out there. Kudos on working in the name of a real nasty Nazi villain into the dialogue besides Hitler. And he was at Nuremberg! I'm guessing the whole cadre of Nazi villains were often used in 40s and 50s Marvel comics?

The show is also tackling how veterans feel and are treated after war, even a "good" war like WWII, which is just so timely. I did not expect this subplot from the series.

I hope we get another season. I hope more Whedony folks show up on the production crew so that we can have a thread each week. Next week is a Jose Molina ep, so maybe?. Although at 253 posts, this thread is getting pretty record breaking for a non-Joss inspired thread.

Go Marge!

[ edited by hann23 on 2015-01-28 23:12 ]
SPOILERS - Link has interview w/ showrunners They discuss Dottie at length as well as direction of final four episodes
So are we shooting for over 500 posts by the end?

This series is already halfway over. 😳

Love the interview!

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-01-29 06:45 ]
Doesn't look like anyone mentioned it... We totally had another Whedon Alum - Mordecai from CitW!
Oh THAT's who that was! That was driving me nuts! Thanks, DreamRose.
Well, has anyone mentioned Jack Conley, who played the Nazi officer Dooley visits? He was Sahjhan on Angel and Cain the werewolf hunter in the Buffy ep "Phases."
Both of those were driving me nuts. Can't believe I didn't make at least the latter connections! I kept meaning to look him up on imdb, but kept being distracted by real life stuff. Sahjhan and Cain...
Time to draw down on multitasking and focus on duo tasking. Not sure of what I'll use the rest of my hands for. Or the other brain cell.
Definitely the Black Widow program.
"Definitely the Black Widow program."

Nebs, there is no duo tasking, there is only Whedon-Riffing!
That's the Peggy Carter who doesn't fetch lunch!
Yay, clakity evil typewriter of DOOM!
Only duo, in that one has to watch and type with the same brain. That doesn't always turn out pretty.
Three quattloo's says its a trap.

[ edited by JDL on 2015-02-04 03:10 ]
Where is everybody?
Black Widow Program Step 1: Sinister Snow White Screening for Memorization Skills.

Nebula, check this out when you can:
"Three quattlo's says its a trap."

It's always a trap.

And she's a bad ass.
LOL! Dusk! We pick up where we last left off!
Stop bitching, boys.
Worst Romantic Misunderstanding Timing Ever.
Uh, oh! Are we going to have to hate Sousa?

And come on! I'm getting annoyed with the teasers for teasers. I don't bloody seek out commercials. They seek me out, and then I smash their little heads with a hammer.
The scars are gonna be a thing. :(

(B_bdamn my horrid spelling)

[ edited by roddikinathome on 2015-02-04 03:33 ]
Sousa is way too smart. Tense ep - very pleased to see Marge in the field.

(Hi everyone!)
Never trust a little girl. Any female who once was a girl knows that.
Well at least now they understand the reason for the handcuffs.
It was THAT general who's framing Stark.
This is a tense episode. I'm nervous.
"I hate you all"

Miss Union Jack! Ha.
He'll take a giant shit on her in a week or two.
"I hate you all"


Well, I meant it! ;)

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-02-04 04:00 ]
Peggy in a pickle!
This was probably my favorite episode so far.Great one tonight.
So, I wonder who is Hydra among them.
This was a good episode. Who wrote this one?
Next week looks pretty intense. Peggy on the run just as the guys started to accept her!
OK. This was written by Jose Molina, so some Whedony cred.
It has to work out that way, Dusk. We can't have anyone be happy for too long.
And that's a reason why I fear for Alison in the next season of OB lol
So, I wonder who is Hydra among them.

No HYDRA at all imnsho. I think Levithan takes it place in toto.
LOL! Alison will survive. She'll just get more lethal with craft supplies.
Hydra was there at the beginning of the birth of SHIELD, JDL. If you follow the parallels in history, top Nazi scientists and businessmen were given positions in US government and business with amnesty. There was more to that kind of infiltration in our government than that of Russian spies. Think Werner Von Braun, and the history of the Koch brothers.

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-02-04 04:24 ]
For the purposes of this show I assume our main villain is Leviathan/Dottie/Stark Framer.

A Hydra connection is more likely to be a SHIELD thread they'll bring up in present day.
So wait I'm confused on the end in Russia. Why did Leviathan even lure them there? It sounds like mad scientist and his psychiatrist were close to doing a thing with those blue prints. Why bother with the "trap"?

Is Leviathan getting over zealous?

And Sousa is just lovely as a man with a secret now. That was a very clever move using scars.

Overall, I enjoyed the episode a lot! Badass Marge and crazed Dottie was awesome. Agent Thompson even thawed which was good. The characters on this show are all multidimensional.
I hope it doesn't boil down to be that simplistic (about the only enemy being Leviathan, while Hydra is on AoS).

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-02-04 04:26 ]
hann23-I'm a bit confused as well. It may have been an excuse for Dottie to raid Peggy's apartment and/or they hoped to capture some of the SSR to figure out what the other side knows about them.

Only 3 episodes left, not much room to cram in Hydra for Peggy to face on top of everything else.
Hydra existed at this time, but was very deeply underground. They would have been regrouping, plotting, and staying very much out of the way. Leviathan was the Soviet equivalent of Hydra, and I'm sure they're the Big Bad of this show.

Dottie seems so unstable that I wonder why Leviathan would allow her in the field. Seems like she'd be a possible loose cannon. Her loyalties may not be quite that clear-cut.
Rewatching the beginning for clarification on why they were there. Did the people on the other end of the typewriter of evil know that SSR was receiving their coded message?
We'll see. I hope the show is a little bit less simple than to have only one enemy per time period. Considering the writers of CATWS were involved in the development of the series, I hold out hope it won't be so cartoonish.
The message the SSR got mentioned a payment to Howard Stark which Peggy knows is BS just used to bait them into going over there, she told Doogan.
Hydra was there at the beginning of the birth of SHIELD, JDL. If you follow the parallels in history, top Nazi scientists and businessmen were given positions in US government and business with amnesty. There was more to that kind of infiltration in our government than that of Russian spies.

Nebula the EP's have indicated they won't be any SHIELD in AC. All of this predates that. So what we have is an organization
(SSR) that is almost exclusively American. Getting a spy inside would be damn hard. He or she would have to be a Vet from one of
a very few countries. My guess is the US, Canada, and Great Britain.
OK.... It hurts to know that part of history well and see the parallels in the storytelling, and to think that this show will fall short of the potential displayed in CATWS.
They only have 8 episodes. They can't cover everything.
Good episode, nice to see AC start getting some recognition w/ the SSR team, and nice to see them become a little more three dimensional as well. Also fun to see the commandos again ... BTW nice job writers for researching their Marvel geek facts. Junior Juniper was the first recurring character Marvel ever killed off (As far as I know he's stayed dead) - so, should have seen it coming.

Not entirely convinced Dottie is evil, think there's a chance she's serving as a guardian angel of sorts, guess we'll know next week. Also think there's a chance Sousa is a bad guy, in fact maybe that's who Dottie's taking aim at in the clip?

Nebula1400 - I would be SHOCKED if by the final episode we don't get hints to: A) the formation of SHIELD, and B) the formation/emergence of HYDRA. Leviathan will ultimately be shown to be a pawn in a larger play
Hints would be nice. Hints would be far better than stale Cold War cliches.
We are getting the Black Widow program, very probably the linkage for the Winter Soldier from Cap 1 to Cap 2, and an opponent all
their (the SSR's) own. Seems like a square deal to me.
It just now strikes me how similar the Black Widow program is to what was done to River in Firefly. Pretty much the same thing, except maybe for the brain surgery part.
Nice moments from last night - Jarvis reaching to tug his ear, but aware enough to stop. Dum Dum shouting out "Wahoooo" - which was the Howling Commandos battle cry from the comics.

Finally - I thought Hayley was "good" in Captain America, but she's bringing it to another level in this series. I have no idea if Agent Carter will get picked up for another season, but I think Hayley's agent will be fielding a lot of offers based on her work here - just reallyreally good
A nice surprise to see Forrest from Buffy season 4, and Lionel Luther from Smallville in tonights episode!
(The Black Widow program, looks like it might be setting up some details before the release of Age of Ultron)
As others have said really enjoying Hayley in this role, and looking forward to seeing how this resolves itself!
It was nice to see Peggy finally get to be herself with the Howling Commandos. Also, loved the humor in this episode. There were a number of laugh out loud moments in it. Even my son laughed out loud, and he never laughs at anything!
I just realized: We watch this show on a screen and obsess over the details of this piece of Disney-owned media. Last night part of that involved us watching a bunch of little girls watching a piece of Disney owned media and obsessing over the details.
OMG, Dusk, you are so so correct. That's a painful realization. I'm also starting to wonder about Sousa.

I think the series is great, thus far. Linking the big bad to Russia makes historical sense IMO. Like folks above said, Hydra was tied to the Nazis and they were hiding or running. Fears of big bad Russia were rampant. Churchill gave that Iron Curtain speech in March of 46 -- so close to the end of the war. (thx you internets) So it fits that time.

The show has some loose plot points but overall I'm liking the direction. The direction could change too. Russia may be smoke and mirrors. As long as the solid writing continues, I think we will see a nifty resolution of some kind. I think that there's a lot of good groundwork for lots of fun stuff with Dottie, Howard, Jarvis, Sousa, Leviathan, and of course Peggy in the final episodes. In fact, I want another seasons so we can get to know more of these characters.

I also want to point out that I'm now loving Roger Dooley. Shea Whigham has been great.
"Last night part of that involved us watching a bunch of little girls watching a piece of Disney owned media and obsessing over the details."

"OMG, Dusk, you are so so correct. That's a painful realization. [snip]"

Further down the meta/context rabbit hole we go. WHEEeeeeeeeee...
Post-Credits Scene of AOU: Natasha and Hulk spend their first date watching the Cirque du Soleil show in Orlando which is part of Downtown Disney.

SHIELD tie-in for the Inhumans Film: The team must contain a sudden flux of Inhumans at Disney World after a global Mist event. Simmons literally goes flying through the Peter Pan ride. Coulson must look for a kindergartner that has shrunk to microscopic size somewhere in the It's A Small World Ride.

[ edited by Dusk on 2015-02-04 20:24 ]
Ratings were the same as last week, a 1.3.
Last night part of that involved us watching a bunch of little girls watching a piece of Disney owned media and obsessing over the details."

"OMG, Dusk, you are so so correct. That's a painful realization. [snip]"

Further down the meta/context rabbit hole we go. WHEEeeeeeeeee...

If Muppets appear on the series, the Apocalypse has arrived.
I think some of you folks are over-thinking the Disney cartoon aspect. Because they were often targeted at young people these
cartoons usually (there were a few exceptions) lacked thick accents, were properly enunciated, and spoken at a realistic speed.
Beyond that there was no problem with the content from a state pov.

As an old fart I remember a lot of content from that period. Disney cartoons make a lot of sense, not to mention they were more
easily available than a lot of the alternatives.
If I have my Disney timeline right, Snow White was the only mainstream Disney film out at this time period. Still it's some meta fun for the fans that pick up on it!
Finally watching via Hulu. Really regrettin' the lack of knickers right now.
@Dusk: Snow White came out in 1937. Pinocchio, 1940. Dumbo, 1941. Bambi, 1942.
Yes, Dottie's childhood flashback was in 1937, making Snow White the only major Disney film available for "training" at the time.
OK. That's true. So Snow White was the only one in 1937.

Didn't Peggy have seven men with her on the mission? There There was Dum-Dum Dugan, Happy Sam Sawyer, Pinky Pinkerton, Junior Juniper, Agents Li and Martinez, and Jack Thompson.
Just caught the Ep.
Loving this series.
And loving the great actors they are getting in relatively minor roles! Some fantastic casting seeing Julian Glover and Ralph a Brown tonight (I'm a huge Withmail and I fan)

[ edited by Alex_Jamieson on 2015-02-06 01:29 ]
Now you're just trying to find links. :)
This was my favorite episode so far. How come no one told me Chad Michael Murray could act?
Annoying that they argle-bargle, jokey-rhymey, buzzword doubletalked their way through Peggy upstaging the Arlington Hall SIS agent and decrypting the typewriter message. With a tiny effort they could have made that scene technically accurate and it would have made for better television

The "one-time pad" she mentioned is a real technique in cryptography. Unfortunately, it is a cipher that is, by definition, unbreakable if it is properly applied. Peggy's not going to get the answer with her steno book and #2 pencil.

Other than that minor misstep, this was a better episode than we have seen thus far. Maybe, they are finally starting to find their stride.
That didn't bother me at all. If I can suspend disbelief for people with super powers, I can leave it suspended for decoding a message from a magic typewriter.
I'm ready for the next episode. Unfortunately, I have to wait until tomorrow or later to watch it as I'm busy tonight. Everyone have fun. I love reading the reactions, even if I see them after watching the show.
Too bad. Will catch up with you when you catch up with us.
Getting close!

Hey Nebula, guess what this is? Follow them for the rest of the week for more:

[ edited by Dusk on 2015-02-11 02:38 ]
The whole women (or people in general) as property theme is what made it a must-see show for me. I can't wait till it comes back, Dusk.
Me too. She must be leaving a message for someone after they tried to take her again. When will they learn Sarah's people aren't easy to control? Give it 7-10 years and even Kira would tear them up!
Are we alone in here tonight?

And my memory is failing me. That doctor/dentist guy has a Whedon connection. I can't even remember my own name right now.

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-02-11 03:14 ]
I knew he was a spy.
Just when I was ready to call the show on contrivance for opening the window right when she had the rifle ready....
I figured the guy was a spy the moment he killed his cellmate last week.
They're after her.
So the endgame of the season has begun.
Too bad Peter Parker wasn't around in 1946...
Too bad Peter Parker wasn't around in 1946...

I was just about to say that! (About the guy killing himself.)
Did not see that kiss-off coming.
Interesting cliffhanger, but it is more like how Peggy is going to get out of this, rather than if she will, considering we know she survives till she is old.

Also all this grandmother talk, they have yet to estabilish the level of relashionship between Sharon and Peggy in the MCU.
It's the journey, not the end, that matters, Numfar!

If we live long enough, we'll find out Sharon's relationship to Peggy.
Next week looks cool. Two episodes left and we've still got to find out exactly who is pulling all the strings behind Doc and Dottie!
The SSR guys may be exemplars of less than stellar intelligence but they did wise up in record time for a TV series. I kind of like that.
The only good thing about this season ending is that AoS will be back.

I wonder if the ad with the women of SHIELD was to undercut the announcement that adding Spider-Man pushed back the release dates for Captain Marvel and Black Panther.
A couple nice twists - I did NOT see the Russian scientist being in cahoots w/ Dottie, so the "sniper" scene caught me by surprise. I really got a kick out of the diner fight scene - loved the music / editing. Cool little sequence. The Ginger Rodgers reference made me LOL.

I figure next week is Peggy convincing the team of her innocence, and the finale has the team rallying to fight Leviathan and potentially reveal a Big Bad (who gets away) At least I hope so - falsely accused movies always make me uncomfortable and itchy
I like Angie. Her audition lines were from "A Doll's House."
I will bring a back scratcher for you next week, TallMichaelJ.
Very fast paced episode tonight.Really enjoyed it.

[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2015-02-11 05:48 ]
I hope the Big Bad doesn't get away. It would take the punch out of it to not get the one whose pulling the strings on Dottie to frame Howard. Plus most ratings places have written the show off. If they leave anything open I would hope SHIELD would resolve it.
I hope they don't cancel it. It's the best thing about Tuesdays, and it's a great placeholder for AoS.
Well they're certainly not going to cancel it this season as there are are only two episodes to go. If you're speaking about the idea of getting picked up for another run next year, I certainly agree that this has been a very enjoyable mid-season break. I'll miss the show even when AoS comes back.

I mentioned the Big Bad being revealed / getting away in those terms - depending on how confident they are that there will be more Agent Carter they might be tempted to tease a Season Two with an open ended conclusion. Regardless of what happens regarding renewal (and I'd gauge it at 50/50) I imagine there will be more AC somehow - another One Shot / Direct to Video movie / cameos .... Marvel has to be very pleased with the critical reception of the show and Haley appears to have "it" in terms of potential star power
I thought the sniper scene was a well-done twist. I didn't see it coming. Although the version of "hypnotism" the evil doc uses is certainly found only in comic book stories. Or 1960's sitcoms...

OK, now Peggy is showing off Xena-like combat moves. I didn't think hand-to-hand combat was really her strength.

It looks like the SSR isn't a secret organization at all. Souza was openly identifying them to civilians as SSR agents.
I meant in terms of a second season. That's why I don't want the Big Bad to get away. There will likely be some tie in to SHIELD but I hope it is not in the form of the main Big Bad.

I can already guess Angie is going to find the body of Mr. Mink under Dottie's bed to strengthen Peggy's claims of the assassin about to get away.

We also still need to find out who/what killed the Russians in that "battle" and why Howard punched a US General afterwards.
Ratings are in for those interested - AC pulls in a 1.4, actually up a tenth I believe. Helped by the new comedy Fresh Off The Boat which pulled a 1.7 - been forever since Tuesdays has a strong lead in .. so good news for both AC and AoS if those numbers hold

[ edited by TallMichaelJ on 2015-02-11 18:34 ]
Good for it! ABC's problem areas seem to be Tuesdays, the 8 PM Friday hour and Sundays except for OUAT. Maybe the show's critical success will get it to come back for another year even if the ratings weren't so great overall.
Re: Howard punching a US General. Could that be the same General who denied safe passage of Jarvis's wife? Using his influence could have meant using his fist. Also, while it's clear Leviathan is the main creepy entity of the series, I still think what they are trying to achieve might be some sort of payback for whatever happened at Finow. Maybe that General is complicit in that. Also, there is a history of animosity between Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany, so there still could be some Leviathan vs. Hydra hijinks going on there.

I really do hope the show comes back next year. Still wish it could be paired with something more genre-appropriate as a lead-in.

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-02-18 04:11 ]
Nebula I was under the impression that that was a British General who denied safe passage to Jarvis's Anna.
Finally catching up on last night's ep. Strong start so far.
Pretty sure it was a US General. Howard *came back* to Jarvis "distressed". He wouldn't be like that if it as just over the wife and Jarvis would already know the details.
Maybe Stark punched a lot of Generals.

Could it be over that one vial of Cap's blood? Was it over some plan to use it to recreate super soldiers? With an impending Cold War, could they have wanted to prep for hot war? Or was the American General a Nazi sympathizer?

And when did the deaths at Finow happen? Could they be linked to the blood? When was Bucky Barnes Winter-Soldiered? Wasn't he found by a Russian General?

I would try to research this all by myself, but maybe someone with more knowledge can save me a lot of time. (Please?)

From what I do know of the stories around the Winter Soldier, there may well be a connection there. We might not see Bucky, because he may be freeze-dried somewhere, but he left a path of destruction in his wake around/post WWII.

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-02-12 05:19 ]

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-02-18 04:11 ]
Or it could be something totally different.
Whedonverse (& Associates)
Harmonic Convergence of Meta Community Theater

The dramatic reading that Angie Martinelli performs for the diner crowd in "A Sin to Err" was the same character that Cordy performed in the Angel episode "Eternity"

The character was Nora Helmer
from Henrik Ibsen's play, "A Doll's House".

Oops, @Nebula1400 called it first.

[ edited by RobynH on 2015-02-12 05:51 ]
Re: US vs British General

Note: The date that the war that broke out while Jarvis was in Budapest had to be 9/1/39. No Allied General would have been traveling about Europe after then.

1) It would almost be impossible for a native of England to enlist in the US Army during the depression and become a general's
gofer, it was a prized job. Further he would have had problems even getting into the Army, again because of the Depression.

2) Jarvis was arrested in Whitehall. The US has no jurisdiction there. It also is clear that the paperwork was filed in the UK,
since he was arrested almost immediately.

Yous simply have to change too much to make it be a US General the most reasonable option.

[ edited by JDL on 2015-02-12 08:52 ]
I think we've all accepted that it wasn't Jarvis's case that involved a US General.

My current theory is the conflict with the US General had something to do with Steve Roger's blood, and how the military planned to use it. It could be a metaphor for the development of the A-bomb. The idea was to use it to stop Hitler, but once the technology for its creation was established, it was used to threaten the USSR at the end of the war, which then started the nuclear arms race. Maybe this has something to do with a race to create super soldiers. Marvel stories were always metaphorically topical.
I have now watched twice and loved the episode. I almost don't want AofS back. I do but I love Peggy.

The diner fight scene was just epic. And I also did not see that guy as a spy. In fact, it took me sometime to remember him, so that was well done.

I am not sure of the details around the general, but I did believe Jarvis's general was British.

I hope we get a lot of interrogation of Peggy next week. I really hate that the cut came there.

When will we here about renewal/cancellation? I hope we get more. It's been such a delight.
The Nazis have nothing to do with whatever happened in Thurnau. The one about to be hanged told Dooley the Russians were already dead when the Nazis got there.

What we know is a bunch of Russians were killed somehow, Howard was in the area later and punched a US General. Either the US killed the Russians or Leviathan somehow sacrificed it's own people and afterwards the General said something about it to offend Howard. (Possibly that they wanted Howard to copy whatever killed the Russians?).

ABC usually renews/cancels things in May. All the major networks make their final choices then. It's not a hard-fast rule, so most of the other networks have renewed some of their stronger rated shows early (Gotham, Scorpion, The Blacklist), The CW basically renewed almost every show they have recently. But I don't think anything on ABC is confirmed yet.

[ edited by Dusk on 2015-02-12 22:55 ]
Dusk I think you are headed in a right direction. How about Howard was pissed because the massacre occurred because someone
misused some of his tech. Said tech furnished by the US Army without his OK.

Given how almost everybody's ratings seem to be tanking* (there are a few exceptions) a renewal seems very possible imo.

*Gotham's last outing down to a 1.8, Sleepy Hollow a 1.2, something weird is going on.
Maybe at one point the US stole one of Howard's Bad Babies? He didn't tell Peggy to get it back because he doesn't actually want himself or her to become a legitimate fugitive? Then Leviathan wants the weapon for themselves/revenge? This Bad Baby becomes a SHIELD problem?

Or the Russians have something they used on their own people and the US General wanted Howard to make a similar weapon?

Network ratings have been on a steady decline for years now. People have more options to watch TV and the Nielsen system is very outdated, but their is no better way for companies to track ratings. Then you can get into debates about actual content & critical reaction. A lot of awards go to cable shows now and even online places like Netflix and Amazon are getting big time recognition. Even a "little" show like Orphan Black got a Peabody Award. Add to that a trend of adaptions of foreign shows that rarely get as good as the original.

The one exception seems to be Fox's Empire which is actually rising each week and set a record for gains in the demo going back at least 23 years. Probably more, but they don't have data before that.

I fell out of Gotham in midseason but recent reviews tell me it still has the same problems that turned me off. I don't watch Sleepy Hollow but I know from online reactions most places feel it was/is in a huge sophomore slump for multiple reasons.

[ edited by Dusk on 2015-02-13 17:33 ]
With all the data-gathering being done by micro-chipped stuff, I bet the NSA has more accurate ratings that Nielsen. ;)

I stopped watching Gotham. Not into bad mob dramas. I'm losing interest in Sleepy Hollow, pretty leads notwithstanding.

The only reason I keep bringing up the Nazis is that the history IRL, and in the Captain America films, has both the Nazis and Russians (to a lesser extent in the films) being integral, diametrically opposed players. Thurnau (or Finow) is in Germany. It was Hydra that did experiments on Bucky Barnes, who was found and freed (in his Winter Soldier mode) by a Russian scientist. From what I gather, TWS went on a major killing spree.

There has to be a compelling reason as to why Leviathan is interested in Stark's technology. Is it to get Steve Roger's blood? It can't be as simple as them being villains twirling their evil mustaches.

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-02-18 04:12 ]
Having read this thread I have two questions...

(1) how fab is it to have Enver back on TV, and
(2) when the klaxon are we going to get it in the UK? It sounds amazing! I know we were about a month behind the US for AoS screening, but I need my vicarious smoochies Whedon fix.

*climbs off soapbox*

Maybe we'll get it over here before AoS restarts...*cough*hint to schedulers*cough
Yes, having the massacre occur within Germany made it easy to publicly blame the Nazis for it as a cover. Dooley was under that impression until he went and spoke to the Nazi.

In some versions Black Widow and the Winter Solider were assassins and occasional lovers together. I believe in 1 continuity Bucky killed Wolverine's pregnant wife? Obviously they won't go into everything in his history for the MCU so I doubt this is over Bucky. It's more probably some type of tech killed those Russians as well as interest in Steve's blood.
The reason I bring up Bucky is the vial of Cap's blood. It plays some not insignificant role in the story.
True. Two episodes left to figure it all out.
We shall see what Sin Rostro is really up to.
Might not comment as much tonight. In the early stages of a cold so I might just stay in bed for most of the show, have fun everybody.
(pouts) Does this mean I will be talking to myself tonight?

Feel better, Dusk. I hope you do say stuff, unless your fingers have laryngitis. I'll be here to spoil everything for you no matter what happens. 😏
I read everything here after watching the eps. So talk to yourself as much as you want Nebula1400. Don't worry, lots of people are reading your madness.
Please don't let me be mad alone!!! There's no telling what I'll say!

Speaking of Enver, I've been rewatching Dollhouse after not rewatching it for a couple of years. Brilliant show. Brilliant cast. Daniel Sousa better be better to Peggy.
Speaking of Echoes.

Starting now... now... now.
Awful dang quiet in here.
Sniffle, sniffle Jarvis is early Wesley.
I don't like talking to myself. I'm so annoying!

Love Jarvis.
I don't want Sousa to die.
Is there a sound component to that ersatz hypnotism that Dr. Ivchenko is doing ? I thought it was flashy lights last week but now I'm not so sure.
Also that's an interesting version of stair-master. :)
Either the faux hypno didn't work on Dooley, or it's something only worthy of a comic book. We want realism in our superhero stories!
Evil white noise ring
It was obvious it was going to happen, but it was still a explosive moment.
This is what happened in Finow.

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-02-18 04:10 ]
"The season finale." Far more hopeful than "The series finale."
Great episode tonight.Did not see the chief's death coming before tonight.
Finow is starting to get clearer but I find it it very hard to believe that Howard was working on an offensive warfare gas. At least deliberately.
What if it's not his invention, but Stark's discovery? Or maybe like the scientists that developed the A-bomb, it was something he had developed to defeat Red Skull and the Nazis. Or it could be something that was being developed for some benevolent purpose, but it backfired. Or maybe the gas isn't the invention, but a distraction for what they are really after.
Could have been meant to be something like a more effective anesthesia. The thing that killed Dooley was just meant to keep troops warm after all.
The more answers we get, the more questions we have. Love it! Also frustrating!
Re Item 17: An accidental discovery is somewhat plausible but the public's attitude toward gas warfare was incredibly negative after WW I. Its just hard to imagine anyone going that way deliberately.
What kinds of gas with toxic/superpower-causing effect (on a specific individual) have there been in the Marvel/Captain America universe? Are there any super gas people?
@JDL-The Starks have a history of being asses that do what they want. I mean more then just womanizing. Look up the current Superior Iron Man book to see what Tony becomes when all his negative qualities are brought to the forefront. It's in-character for Howard to have toyed with gases if he thought he could make something great with them.

I'm blanking on gas superpowers right now because I'm not at 100% but their are several rage-based characters they could use. Their is a slim chance this could be tied to SkyeDaddy Cal, who has some kind of anger power but is not one of the Inhumans himself.
As in something that SkyeDaddy derived his power from? Given some of the temporal gymnastics that have to be played with, unless Cal also has the gift of eternal youth, he would not have been born in 1946, much less earlier than that; however, if he had gotten his hands on some rage gas to use for experimentation, Stark, or Stark's source, would be the source.
Hi, y'all!

1) Wow, WHAT a good episode, and finally Peggy got to say a few true things to the dudes at SSR.

2) Did anyone else see "Kingsmen" over the weekend? Because that turn-the-masses-homicidal thing was startlingly similar. (And I agree, Nebula, this is what happened in Finow.)

3) @JDL - Re Item 17: An accidental discovery is somewhat plausible but the public's attitude toward gas warfare was incredibly negative after WW I. Its just hard to imagine anyone going that way deliberately. I agree with you - but Stark did call the stuff in the basement his "bad babies" ...

4) Dusk and Nebula, your simultaneous "Holy shit" exclamations cracked me up. Even 2 1/2 hours later, I knew immediately what you were typing about.
yes javelina, I immediatly thought of Kingsman with the homicidal gas at the end (and thought how funny it was that this revelation came in the episode aired literally a week after Kingsman was if it had come any earlier, I would've thought of Agent Carter with that Kingsman plot device.)
I figure the homicide gas is another failed experiment like the heated armor. It was probably intended to make troops brave and confident before battle or something, and went way too far.
@Nebula-Yes, I meant SkyeDaddy got his hands on this gas later on, not that he was part of this initial scheme we're seeing Peggy deal with. It's just a guess right now but it might be that Cal got his hands on the "improved" version of this gas to give himself the strength to go after who ruined his family.
Kid down with tummy bug, I"m so bummed I missed the live watch. I'm hoping for live watch of finale. I was so looking forward to the live watch here. Sigh....
1) Wow, WHAT a good episode, and finally Peggy got to say a few true things to the dudes at SSR.

Loved this! Lived through it, too. One of my favorite things about this episode.
Interview with the show's boss, a few teases about how things will play out in the finale next week:
How did Dooley break the key in that lock so easily? I'd break my fingers in a bloody mess, and the key wouldn't even bend, if I attempted that.
Also, love how Sousa's crutch becomes an asset, rather than a detriment. Wish I could use my migraines as a weapon as deftly as he uses the awesome stick.
Wish I could use my bad balance to turn my unsteady walking into acrobat flips like Dottie but my tight leg muscles prevent that *sigh*

Nebula, if you ever get time for another show check Avatar: The last Airbender. (Stay away from the 2010 live action movie). It's a great show all around but also gets points for an excellent portrayal of character with a disability in Toph who is blind. Also it has the cartoon equivalent of the Scooby Gang, not in tropes but character depth and I can offer it no higher praise then that.

[ edited by Dusk on 2015-02-18 21:57 ]
Have avoided animated series since my kids grew up, but when I run out of stuff to watch (which I will), I'll give it a try, Dusk.

In the over-reveally portion of the week, I also have balance issues, as well as connective tissue that tends to fall apart, causing all my joints to tear easily (and not heal).

Hitting a supervillain with a dislocated limb just isn't as cool as cracking them over the head with a crutch.

Here's a theory about the gas.
Good call on the Mad Bomb. I was born with my disability and get sore if I have to walk or stand more then about 15 minutes. And my confidence levels aren't so great either due to some difficult school years.

Toph's lack of sight is part of her but not the defining part, and while she does have powers to compensate they don't totally replace her sight,she still has weaknesses and it is acknowledged when necessary. Plus we get insight into who she becomes and her family in the sequel show Legend of Korra.

Fan videos to give you a taste of Avatar:

[ edited by Dusk on 2015-02-18 23:40 ]
Mine is genetic, though the problems didn't present till I became an adult. Even then, it took almost 25 years to find a doctor who figured out it was both Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome and fibromyalgia.

Avatar's not on Netflix, but I will find it elsewhere. :) Once I've rewatched all of Dollhouse, there will be plenty of insomnia to catch it with.
Mine is a mild form of Cerebral Palsy in just my legs directly, but it obviously has an impact on the rest of me.

There is also a sequel show called Legend of Korra, 70 years after Avatar. Together, 7 seasons are waiting for you!

Oh, and just to prove it's for adults the start of this clip always makes me tear up even as an adult. It's rare to find a kid's show that will talk about genocide and the weight is has on our 12 year old Chosen One and Sole Survivor. Plus he also struggles with World Needs vs Friend Needs which you'll see at the end of this:
FInally got to see the episode last night! As Nebula1400 said, the more answers, the more questions, the more frustrating -- the more awesome.

I can tell it's a good show because I had to delay watching it until my husband was ready. He wanted to watch too.

I am very sad about Dooley -- I became firmly attached after his Nazi mission and was so upset. But the execution of the death was flawless, IMO. The way that Dooley remembered his family and his dreams was just so well done and fit perfectly into the plot. It was not awkward. Okay now I want to cry. Dooley!

I have not read the Mad Bomb theory but my guess is that it's some kind of super gas that Howard was testing. With regards to WWII, in my opinion, nothing was off the table in the real world. Yes, there was all kinds of negativity with using gas after WWI, but I would not be surprised if somewhere somewhen, some lab was studying it. Howard playing with a super gas is believable under the circumstance.s Heck, in their effort to build a a nuclear bomb they were building minireactors without understanding the effects of radiation.

What I am not getting is the target of the movie theater or Dr. Ivchenko and Dottie's end game. I suppose I have to wait until next week.

I absolutely loved Peggy calling out the SSR and Dooley's completely appropriate for the time response.

I also loved loved how Peggy and the SSR were played by Dr. Ivchenko and Dottie. It was very clever. While I suspected something was up in Russia, I didn't pinpoint the good doctor right away.

Enver is awesome. Enver on a crutch as a frustrated SSR agent completely rocks. We need more Enver in everything.

Oh I so hope the show gets renewed. I love all the characters - even with their misogyny.
Word is, the good doctor is Dr. Faustus, a notorious Marvel baddie.

And who doesn't love a good misogyny?
The book that Dr. Ivchenko is reading at the camp in the flash back is "The Tragic Life of Dr. Faustus" at the beginning so that fits. Either he's reading about himself or he's a protege of sorts.

He could be Dr. Faustus under cover as Dr. Ivchenko. He could have fallen into Russian hands especially if he was on a Nazi brain washing mission. Thus, now he's Dr. Ivchenko.

Very interesting.

Update - slightly OT -- here's a nifty review of Tuesday night's episode which Alan Sepinwall tweeted. Fingers crossed for renewal.

[ edited by hann23 on 2015-02-19 16:57 ]

[ edited by hann23 on 2015-02-19 16:58 ]
Been travelling this week - but finally got to catch up to this episode. Kind of a broken record, but man Hayley is "really" good in this, really hope she gets some "A-List" type of attention for some meaty roles after this wraps. Equally deft at the witty banter / comedic timing as well as the gravitas emotions when needed. The Peggy/Jarvis stuff is just getting better every week.

I hope they bring back another short season - if not, I wouldn't be surprised if Marvel does at least another One-Shot movie or even some kind of Netflix one off. They clearly are getting terrific critical reaction and you'd think there are more stories to tell .... somewhere. No matter what I'll definitely be picking up whatever Blu-Ray release they package up after this season
@hann23-Dottie and the Doc used it on the movie theater as just a test run to see if it works before using it for whatever their real plan is.
I thought that -- but they didn't stick around to watch. They just did it. Well, that's what we know so far.

I wonder if it was meant to distract the law.
They couldn't stick around to watch or they'd have gone crazy from the gas as well. They went back in pretending to be a couple who were late for the movie because Doc kept trying to find cheap parking. The woman who works at the theater opened the door and screamed. The test worked because the moviegoers are dead, so they can just grab the canister again for the real target, what/whoever that is.

[ edited by Dusk on 2015-02-19 19:49 ]
The Item 17/Kingsman parallel was more immediate, but I had a flashback to Jacob's Ladder as well.

OT, in reference to Ms Atwell's acting in this series: I hope everyone has seen her contribution to Black Mirror.
That was them!!!!! Duh! I so missed that. Thanks @Dusk.
Your welcome!
Someone pointed out that next to Loki, Dottie has one of the highest non-war kill-counts of the entire MCU!

[ edited by Dusk on 2015-02-20 01:07 ]
Yet. Highest kill count yet. After all, Joss directed the next MCU movie.
This is only my second experience with this sort of short series. OB was the first. What has surprised me is the speed of plot
reveals. It feels incredibly fast and I've enjoyed every minute but dang they are burning through material at a pretty fast rate. A
second round is called for imho at the very least.
I have a feeling we'll get a second round.
I wonder if it was meant to distract the law.

Dottie said something about keeping SSR so busy, they wouldn't be able to get to them before they got to what they were really after. I have to rewatch it later, but I'll find exactly what she said when I do.

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-02-20 18:20 ]
Doc said the SSR would be busy, Dooley was supposed to explode in his sleep, which would have collapsed the building and killed most of the SSR.
I finally realized that the writers do not know enough about WW II. One important event that they assign to 1944 could not have
reasonably happened until early 1945. By the end of 1944 the Russians had not advanced into Germany hardly at all. That made
Finnau in either Eastern Europe or the USSR. That also made Ivchenko (Faustus) not German since the Russians were not in
Germany as yet. And if they had to little chance to catch German civilian targets of interest the chances of getting to their
families was even less.
In most television I try not to think about historical accuracy. I'm not expert but I know enough to point out some of the flaws in most period pieces if I wanted too. Marvel has it's own made-up countries and such, so I just pretend it just follows the broad strokes of real world history.
JDL: The Russians may not have been in Germany, but the Germans were in Russia slaughtering the Russians. So the mythical Finnau would probably be in USSR or Eastern Europe. There is nothing to say that Ivchenko isn't a Hydra agent (Dr. Faustus/Dr. Johann Fennhoff was a Nazi from Austria) that was sent into the USSR. At that time, the USSR and the US were allies, so it's possible that Stark's tech was being used to try to aid the allied forces. What better motivation would there be to go there during the war years, than to find ways to advance Hydra's cause and crush the Soviet Union?

I do think of historical accuracy. Having taught history (at the college level, in the context of sociology, much of it about this era) for 30 years, it's hard not to think about it.

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-02-20 23:58 ]
From Marvel Wikia: "Dr. Faustus however was revealed to be alive working a S.H.I.E.L.D. psychiatrist, in the employ the Red Skull. Dr. Faustus manipulated Agent Carter, and claimed responsibility for Carter's increasing romantic attachment to Captain America. Dr. Faustus manipulated Sharon into assassinating Captain America. The Grand Director was also revealed to be alive in Dr. Faustus' care and recuperating. He was reconditioned and was was sent to battle James Barnes who had taken up the mantle of Captain America. The failure of this attack, and the increasing abuse from the Red Skull and Zola towards Dr. Faustus, caused him to withdraw from the project, but not before freeing Agent Carter and providing information about the Red Skull's plans to S.H.I.E.L.D."

Of course, the scenario is being altered, because Peggy is the new 1946 Sharon.
Nebula from the transcript of 1.06

What did Dooley want?
Information on a battle in the German town of Finow.

Also fwiw the author of an interview on EW with Michele Fazekas said he was Fennhoff-Faustus.
Rewatching now. The opening scene has someone calling him Dr. Fennhoff, and has Fennhoff reading "The Tragic Life of Doctor Faustus."
Something Nebula speculated on way up thread about the gas is beginning to sound possible. Its imo very suggestive but not quite
a slam dunk. Here is the link to this weeks new clip that has the reference. Spoiler Warning ! Its all connected.

[ edited by JDL on 2015-02-21 13:12 ]
Why do I bother to read comments after an article or video clip? I'm so spoiled by the thoughtful and intelligent posters here!
I hear ya Nebula1400. I was just looking up the Eastern Front to see what @JDL is talking about. I wanted to know! Everyone here raises great ideas. And I love the mix of WWII history in our discussions.

Like JDL said Russia wasn't in Germany at least until 1945. Finnau (ow?) can't be in a "battle" in Germany with Russians in 1944. It doesn't phase me though, as much as I thought, because with the fronts being dynamic and the SSR being obtuse I have a place to put the mistake. This is why more complex characters help so much in making a show entertaining. They give wiggle room to the oopsies. Now if the SSR agents were portrayed as completely competent and not conceited, then I may have felt differently. I wonder if Finnau is ultimately something else.

I'm with Ivchenko infiltrated USSR on purpose for his own nefarious means camp. He wanted to be recruited unwillingly.

I haven't thought this much about a show in a long long time.
Neither have I, which is what makes this show so awesome!

Germany invaded Russia in 1941 (Operation Barbarossa, where 3 million German troops invaded the country in three different offensives), and there had been pro-Nazi sympathizers in the Soviet Union before that. Germany invaded Stalingrad in 1943. It seems the opening scene is not historically improbable.
Wish me luck guys, I just found out my area's in for a nasty snowstorm on Tuesday, so their is a chance I might not get to see the episode if my TV signal gets knocked out!

On the bright side, Supernatural is off until March 18th where it will be airing on Wednesdays so I don't have a conflict anymore for this finale or the rest of AoS when it comes back!
Hope that if you must be in a snowstorm, Dusk, that you at least get TV reception and an internet connection! The season finale wouldn't be the same without you!

We're in a bigger snowstorm than was anticipated right now. This may be the biggest snow we've gotten this winter. Fortunately, the only time we went without power or TV reception was when a small tornado hit my house, knocking down a tree branch that pulled the utility wires off the house.
Same here! We've been couped all day due to snow which led me to perusing 1944 Eastern Front maps.

Oh Dusk I hope that you can watch. I have my bases as covered as I can get them. I'm hoping to be here on Tuesday!

I miss our Brit friends. I wish that they could live watch with us. Of course they would be very sleepy.
Thanks guys. We had some snow today and my connections have been winking in and out but the power has stayed on. My city hasn't gone above 0 Celsius since January.

We've only lost power once in November so far only about 12 hours. But in 2013 we lost it for 86 hours after half the province was blasted by an ice-storm (yes, it's different from a snowstorm). But, their is a point when even Canadians wonder whether we should follow Target Canada's retreat and just head somewhere warmer over the border.
Feels like Canada where I live, lately. Canada, NJ.
At least you have Cherry and Vanilla Coke to help you through it. (Weep for your lacking Northern Neighbors.) Honestly if any of you are interested/bored look into the closure of Target Canada. It's an example of how brand recognition can spectacularly backfire. Old articles but still relevant as to why the company failed here:

Back on topic, I wonder if they'll kill off one last good guy? Whose more likely to die: Sousa or Thompson?
People were talking about Target Canada in one of the activist groups I follow on Facebollox this week, in connection with the sudden job loss people experienced after just having been hired by Target.

As for a good guy dying, either would suck, but Sousa dying would suck more. He's more like Steve Rogers in terms of his personality and his principles, plus Enver is an awesome actor, which means, it will probably be him.

I do half expect, though, that one of them might end up being something quite different by the end. I'm not sure what that might be, but I fully expect an unexpected twist.
I heard about someone offered a job there 3 days before they announced they were leaving, luckily this person said no. But still bad form.

Somebody has to replace Dooley so one of them is likely to be promoted. It probably won't be Peggy because only two of the guys know her real skill and it seems like it's too soon for her to be leading people to clean out people like Whitehall. As long as he survives Thompson is the obvious choice to fill the gap.

Facebollux, have't heard that one before!
A few of my friends in the UK call it that.

Thompson seems like the logical male replacement for Dooley. I keep looking up superheroes who have lost their legs. The only one I can find so far is Deathlok. Could he be subjected to whatever they derive from Cap's blood? I really hope Sousa isn't recruited/used by Hydra, or isn't a Hydra or Leviathan mole.

On the other hand, doing something that drastic to him would show off Enver's incredible range as an actor.
Whatever they make of Cap's blood won't be on Tuesday. They have enough to wrap up as it is.

Sousa can't be a Leviathan mole. Otherwise he'd have just shot Peggy outside the restaurant and had the perfect cover to do it because she was a fleeing fugitive. And he wouldn't have fought Dottie when their were no witnesses to keep a cover up for.
True. Hopefully he's just a decent guy, and ends up being Peggy's love slave. 😈
Well, her name is...stops before the comment gets deleted.
No snow yet so I might be OK!

One final think piece on the show from someone who likes it but wants to see it aspire to more when/if it comes back:

I'm initiating my plan to make sure kids are settled by 9pm EST. The work starts now at school pick up.
In surrounding Peggy solely with male allies, Agent Carter runs the risk of implying she’s the only woman competent enough for the job.

Only addressing this briefly, because I have tons of work to do before 9, but I think there may be a logical explanation for this. She, like other women during WWII, was always extremely competent. What may have tipped the scale for her was her connection to Captain America.

There's a lot to address in the review, which has a lot of its own flaws, but I really need to get some work done. May address more later, if I can.
Agree Nebula1400, I am finding the depiction believable and it's saying the stuff that needs to be said and is rarely discussed elsewhere in entertainment. Look at the reaction to Patricia Arquette's speech. I know she did follow up with some more obtuse beliefs but at least she said something to over a gazillion people or so. And Meryl Streep -- the best actor we will probably ever see ever in our lifetime, cheering her on like she knew all too well the pain of Hollywood's misogyny. She's the Agent Carter of acting.

Okay I digress. I am preaching to the choir. It's why I love any Whedony stuff. I am just glad that maybe Marvel is catching on.

What I love about Agent Carter is that we are getting social commentary, we are seeing characters react to it and it makes sense in the story.

Go get your work done!
Snow's started now but it's faint so I'm thinking it'll hold out until 9:00. If I don't say anything in the 1st break I'm offline.

Agree the piece is flawed but you can tell it was written by a caring fan. Some things need to be cleared up like why is a Brit like Peggy still working for the US government? But maybe we'll get more of her pre-Steve background in future seasons. Assuming Dottie survives this episode, she could be Peggy's Loki. If that happens it's just a matter of time before a Dottie shows up in the actual comics.

hann23-If your not already watching it, try Orphan Black for some modern metaphor and commentary!
@Dusk. The whole Brit working for an American Spy Agency has puzzled me as well. One possibility is that the Brits are still a
partner and its not a wholly U.S. operation. Another possibility is that she's MI 5/6 and the Brits have seconded her to the SSR.
The final possibility is that she has dual citizenship. After all Hayley does !

SHIELD in the comics has varied at times between a US only or international authority. The SSR may have been still acting as a semi-joint operation between nations before breaking off after the dust cleared from WWIII.
It could be all of those. Or at least two of them.
Just keeping my fingers crossed that my daughter waits to drop in on us tonight. It's sad when I'd rather watch a TV show than see my own child! I will be here, though.

Back to the project I have to have done by Friday. I may not sleep for the rest of the week.
Eh, I hate when family members are talking when I'm trying to watch something. Even if it's not directly to me and we just happen to be in the same room. Any non-emergencies can wait for the commercials.
She'll be cool about it. After all, this is the daughter who chose to skip her high school honors ceremony in 2005 to see a screening of Serenity. Chances are, she'll hang out with my husband in the kitchen, and when this is over, I'll join them. I'll just feel guilty about it for a while!
I get that too - parent watching TV guilt? Fandom vs family dilemma? There should be a meme for this situation. I just had to let my husband know that I was watching live - even though I should wait to start it for him. Ummmmm.....

Here we go!!!

[ edited by hann23 on 2015-02-25 03:00 ]
They'll be fine for an hour.

Party time!
Ouch Dooley -- still gets me.
And we head into the last episode of this season. More to come, hopefully, cause this mini was amazing.

And to hell with critics annoyed by tsunami of super heroes.
Dr. Faustus is going to turn on Dottie.
I still hope they show it someway and someday how Howard's Jarvis, inspired Tony to create his JARVIS.
I love that they are all asking the same questions we've been asking all week. Why? What's the plan? What's his target? It's a lot of trouble. '

I hope the cop is okay. It doesn't look good for him though.

I don't know @Nebula1400 -- that could be an emotional gut punch. I want to see it, but then I don't because I do like human Jarvis.

[ edited by hann23 on 2015-02-25 03:11 ]
Rabid Sousa is not permanent slightly relieved, slightly disappointed. Howard inventor of swagger.
Nervous. Wreck. I'm sorry I haven't been able to be here every week, because it's more fun to watch with y'all.
There's not enough show left!
Howard: Two steps forward, one step back.
Oh Howard, you sneaky dirty little dog.

And I guess we'll see some burning beds with the Midnight Oil. I couldn't resist.
A Stark never changes his spots ! (Steve's Blood).
Wonder if Dottie is actually MCU's Yelena Belova, they have gone wibbly-wobbly with characters timelines anyway, wouldn't be strange to have another "modern-age" character from the comics, appear as part of MCU's past.
Dottie is more competent then modern HYDRA.
Gah! the feels for Howard, and even a bit of sympathy for the Doc! Who was forced in part to this when caught by Dottie.
Here we go....ooooohhhh no.
Aaaaggghhh don't listen, Sousa.
Sing a song Sousa!!! SO many good songs of this era! Please sing. Just sing.

or use ear plugs.

[ edited by hann23 on 2015-02-25 03:44 ]
Or cotton!

Eek Poor Jarvis!
Thompson couldn't lose his jerkiness. Bummer.
OMG! Too much awesomeness to process it all.
Zola ! Nice Touch.
That was a great touch to tie everything together.

Now I am trying to trace the timeline for Peggy's flashbacks from Agents of SHIELD to these events to the Agent Carter short.
I have to rewatch to put this all together. I definitely missed some stuff. I was hoping for a more complex motivator then revenge but it does fit and work.

The way that they were able to bring Captain America into the episode and the conclusion was amazing. It made sense.

I so wanted Peggy to scream at the Senator. But no one would have believed her. Thompson knows that he goofed. So he's the head right?

And the end. Oh dear, we have trouble now. It's all set up, we need another season!
A good ending. More things change more they stay the same with Soua and Thompson. Peggy lets go, Angie gets a reward, a nice small tie to modern SHIELD and the modern Cap movie, so we roughly know what Doc writes down. And Dottie can be Peggy's Loki.

[ edited by Dusk on 2015-02-25 04:11 ]
I saw Toby Jones in the final scene and didn't exactly shriek, but I did squeal in a less than dignified manner. Very nice way to tie it all in, writers!

I'm not happy about the Thompson Ascendancy either, but I really think Peggy is telling the truth when she says she doesn't care about public recognition. Which makes her perfect for S.H.I.E.L.D.

Am delighted Dottie is still with us.

Renew the show, ABC!!
And Dusk, yes! I was worried about Angie :)
Great finale.Really hope we get a second season.
Make up Angie's connection to the future MCU: My guess, Bobbi's grandmother.
Make up Angie's connection to the future MCU: My guess, Bobbi's grandmother.

Nope (imo). Calling it now; Angie and Sousa.
Aww. Angie and Sousa? I hope not!
The show is incredibly funny, and before Zola showed up, there were tears.

The show better come back, because ABC hasn't introduced a truly great show in years. I love Agents of SHIELD, but it took a while to get to that point.

Sorry for the lack of articulation tonight. I'm basically one of the walking dead right now.

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-02-25 05:29 ]
Now I am trying to trace the timeline for Peggy's flashbacks from Agents of SHIELD to these events to the Agent Carter short.

I believe this series retcons the Agent Carter short out of canon. It's pretty much impossible to imagine Peggy getting marginalized again in that way after what's happened here.

I consider this series to be an expanded version of the general story from the one-shot.
@Numfar-The showrunners have specifically denied Dottie is Yelena.
@AndrewCrossett If I understand things correctly Peggy left the SSR. When at some point she goes back its very possible she would
take a few steps back. Especially if most of the people in that office at this point in the show are not there when she comes back.
Transfer, quit, earth shattering ka-boom, etc..
Once again, Thompson accepts praise for an accomplishment that wasn't his to claim, just like he did in Japan. If the show returns, he will fail spectacularly at some crucial juncture, and will not be able to bury the white flags.
@Nebula. Yup. Its not going to be pretty. You can almost feel sorry for the guy........almost.
If I understand things correctly Peggy left the SSR. When at some point she goes back its very possible she would
take a few steps back. Especially if most of the people in that office at this point in the show are not there when she comes back. Transfer, quit, earth shattering ka-boom, etc..

The founding of SHIELD is due to take place in the very near future, though. I don't see that there's enough time for Peggy to leave the SSR, for complete turnover to happen in her division, and then for her to come back to a bunch of strangers and go through the Zodiac affair from the one-shot.

I'd certainly like to ask the showrunners how, or if, the Agent Carter one-shot dovetails with the events in this series. In my opinion, it's very hard to make it work. It looks like a retcon to me.
Yes! The Winter Soldier Program and the Black Widow Program are coming together. I'm hoping this leads to MCU acknowledging Bucky and Natasha's relationship prior to Odessa. The Red Room is after all part of Department X, which was run by Hydra and contained the Winter Soldier.

My God, I was crying so much. That ending with Peggy and Howard. I don't think Tony realizes how much he is like his father, and I mean that both as a compliment and an insult.

Why does everyone keep thinking present day people are related to everyone in Agent Carter. I keep seeing people speculate on Dottie being Natasha's great grandmother, that's not how the red room works. The only people we know for sure is that Sharon Carter is Peggy's niece and that Trip has a grandfather who is a Howling Commando, which one is anyone's guess.
Interviews with the showrunners as well as the Captain America writers:
That was a great ending with Zola!
I loved the scene at the airfield when Peggy took charge and Sousa and Thompson looked to her for leadership, neither caring nor even noticing that they were taking orders from a woman. That was so well done! Peggy was a natural leader and they knew it. Gender ceased to be an issue, so much so that the director treated it as something normal, not something remarkable, which it truly was for that era.

To me, that was the most important scene of the entire series.
Have just caught up with these last 3 episodes and omigosh! Great finale with obviously loads of potential to go forward. Would love to see another mini or full series order for Agent Carter. Stellar work from everyone -- writers, cast and crew. The way the finale circled back to Peggy's past with Capt. America and Howard Stark felt earned and emotional without veering into sentimentality.

Still processing it emotionally, but will enjoy rewatching the entire series even more now.
Gender ceased to be an issue, so much so that the director treated it as something normal, not something remarkable, which it truly was for that era.

Except that, in the end, Thompson took the credit for Peggy's work, and only one man in that office was willing to stand up for her. Peggy didn't care, because she knew what the truth was, and was fine with herself and the things she did. You have to figure Thompson may be feeling the opposite about himself, because he knows he was totally useless through the whole Stark & Faustus ordeal.
Yes, true that Thompson reverted to form (foreshadowed in his confession to Peggy about the "heroic" deed that got him the Purple Heart), but I found that more realistic. Thompson knew he could get away with it as well. He might develop into the kind of political animal who embellishes his past to get ahead (not unlike some tv journalists in the news these days!).

I'd be pissed off if I didn't know that Peggy goes on to be the head of SHIELD. In future seasons (assuming we get those!), this knowledge of what really happened will give Peggy more leverage in any dealings with Thompson.

Plus, it allowed Sousa to show yet again that he's willing to stand up for Peggy (no pun intended) when nobody else in that office would.
Travel prohibited me from seeing finale (and parks n rec finale) until now -

Just a damn fine episode of what was a damn fine show. I'd love more, I have a feeling we'll definitely be seeing Hayley/Howard/Jarvis somewhere in the Marvel extended universe. Best case scenario is another season, but at the very least some sort of cameo/flashbacks/time travel. etc.

Anyway - kudos to all involved - it was a great watch from Episode 1
Slightly OT consideration of The Terrible Girlfriends Of Superhero TV Shows at Bleeding Cool, with comparison to the writing on the Agent Carter series.
Its a bit late but I may have some insight on the Faustus, is he German or Russian question. There were
several places in Russia where large numbers of ethnic Germans were resettled by the Czars in the mid 1700's.
They never assimilated and were not beloved by their neighbors. When Hitler attacked they became pariah's and
were persecuted by everyone from Stalin on down. That imo is the most likely explanation of what Fennhoff's
origins were.

[ edited by JDL on 2015-02-26 10:25 ]
That's an interesting theory, JDL. Could be Revisionist Faustus.

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