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March 03 2015

(SPOILER) Discuss Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 2x11 "Aftershocks". It's back! This episode was written by Maurissa Tancharoen and Jed Whedon. It was directed by Billy Gierhart.

I thought I would start the thread early so people could come chat if they'd like.
*jumps up and down in my chair*
The episode will be earth-shattering!

I'll put myself in bad pun jail for half an hour...
I'm quaking in my stylish yet affordable boots.

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-03-04 02:45 ]
Hi everyone!!!!!!! Yeah!!!!

Though I miss Peggy.

[ edited by hann23 on 2015-03-04 02:46 ]
Such excite. Wow.

Can't wait! :-D
(I really don't understand this show that is happening right now. It's super weird.)

[ edited by erendis on 2015-03-04 02:53 ]
Oh... the thing that's on before AoS? If this is what gets higher ratings than AoS or Agent Carter, you know it's not our fault. Another apocalypse is upon us.
Yep. The end is definitely nigh. O.o
this is a show where celebrities do stupid thing to unsuspecting public? usually people who can't react? hilarious,really.
I have it on with the sound off, and it looks like an act of misogynistic sadism occurring.
Not my favorite kind of comedy... so I'm watching The Voice atm.
i have the sound off too. i accidentally watched a couple of minutes once and wanted to die.
Yayyyy stupid show is over! Time for Agents of Shield! Yay!!
Yay, hoping there's no interruption in the next few weeks.
Tripp. Now , I am sad all over again.
I was watching The Voice too @NYPinTA
Nice to see Dichen is back, with her guts inside her.
So glad we get to see Skye's mom as a person!
Terrigenesis and the mist actually spelled out....
OOOOh we get Crazy Kyle today. Yeah! I didn't know that.
Hope we get lots of Dichen flashbacks. She seems like a cool character.
Hey, all!

Dichen is the best. I didn't even realize how much I've missed seeing her.
Damn, Coulson!
Surprised things didn't start shaking right there....
Ok - Raina has arrived.
Ooohh. There's Raina!
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Damn! The show is almost over already!
i want more diechen, I was excited to see her
Raina :O and Stoney Tripp :(
Huh, So ABC got new show to promote, after Scandal, a very different type of show, guess part of the reason to have new Avengers trailer there ( for the different audience, or Marvel fans sample those shows), instead of after AoS.

Guess this should be in the other thread, but too lazy to switch now.
A rock star. Harharhar...
If Bobbi thinks you're cool, you're cool.
I don't think Skye wants to be a rock star.
Both Mack and Fitz are broken....
Take that! Or stuff.
Uh, oh... Mac is going all monster.
More like Agents of Yelling.
Something is still up with Mac, right?
Super Saiyan Skye!
AAGH! That scared me.
Damn! I HATE car crashes like that! They always hurt!
Honestly, I feel like Mac has a point. Coulson's plans have not been going super well lately. And this plan, right now? Doesn't seem like a great idea.
Didn't Hydra use this same move on Fury?
Whatever took hold of Mac is manipulating the situation to provoke Skye into bringing down the house.
Hydra likes big trucks I guess. Still freaked me out.

I agree with Mac too. A lot happened.

[ edited by hann23 on 2015-03-04 03:24 ]
I feel like the plan is so bad that it's on purpose. And the talking in front of their prisoner? Also gotta be on purpose.
They're maintaining the nail-biting quality that made the first part of the season so watchable.

Did anyone else spot Agent Carter in the Hulu ad?
Is that what that means?
It's fake - you are all right
Oh thank god.
Yep, all on purpose. Bait and Switch.
Ooh! Burn, Coulson!!!
Yes, that was my favorite part of the Hulu ad, javelina. :-)
... and I'm glad that plan was bad on purpose. Makes a lot more sense now.
If Radio Shack was Hydra I don't think they'd be going bankrupt.
What the fuck, Simmons?
Oooooh Simmons where are you? Are you going antimutant?
Wow it's so wrong how excited I am to see a psychopath...
Simmons is acting very out of character.
Simmons is in one of stages of mourning, that's what makes sense for her now.
Wow it's so wrong how excited I am to see a psychopath...

Yes.
Yikes! And hannn23 she's anti-Inhuman!
This psychopath we're ALL excited to see, NYTinPA!
That makes sense, Numfar.
Yeah, I think a lot of what all of them are saying is out of guilt and grief. And it's easy to blame the tech. ...
Simmons is going to become the big bad of the season.
I agree @Sunfire - it's odd. But she's been through a hell of a lot. I wonder if they are laying groundwork for Civil War here. Just a little.

Yeah, I know Skye's Inhuman, I just think of all of them as mutant.

[ edited by hann23 on 2015-03-04 03:35 ]
Wracking nerves all over the place. That's my AoS.

(Wreaking? Racking?)
Oh, Doc. Being glib isn't smart...
I take that back. Go dad.
Love glimpsing Rayna's new form, makes me imagine what Marvel will do with Triton when they are ready to introduce the royal family for the movie.
Well that was harsh...
Wow. Poor Raina.
I'm having feels for Raina -- that's odd. But wow, that was cruel.
I've always liked Raina though. Even when she was working for the bad guys.

Wow Simmons. Damn!
Whoever mentioned, that this might be what takes us into Civil War, I think I see what you are seeing.
Imagine "plague" view, combine that with Talbot's efforts, or if Inhumans spread to the point of needing some sort of Registration.
This episode is just entirely about PTSD, I guess.
No, it's propaganda.

Oops! Wrong discussion.
Please tell me we aren't going to lose Raina!

Simmons, Fitz? You're not helping. Skye is going to end up with her father if y'all keep this up.
Makes sense that they're all freaking out ... The only results they've seen from the Terrigen crystals/mist have been horrific. And Mac had something destructive take him over.

They don't have any way to know that what's happening to Skye is actually okay--that it could be a good transformation. They're going to think that either she's not herself at all (like Mac), or is turning into a monster (like Raina).

And Sky doesn't understand that either ... she doesn't trust what she's been told by Cal and Raina, for good reason. So she's just as freaked as everyone else.

And apparently this transformation shit is super hard even with support. Poor Skye. This is going to suck a lot. :-(

[ edited by erendis on 2015-03-04 03:48 ]
Assuming this show sticks around, it will likely tie in to almost all the movies at points.
What erendis said.
Hee. Oh, there's Fury's car.
Fitz! <3 <3 <3
*tackle hugs Fitz*
I love love love love love Fitz. He's my favorite. FLOVE.
Dammit, Fitz, you're making me cry again ....
Oooh! Oh!! Oh!
That was awesome.
Raina ships it. ;)
Reader is cool.
Oh Mack. Disappoint.
Agree with erendis as well. IT was very focused on the emotional fall out of Tripp's death, etc but that would have a significant impact on all of them and how they react to massive changes taking place.

Skye and Fitz's scene was terrific.

Wait what did Mac make?
All I want to do right now is type "This is so cool!" in all caps, which really isn't a strong contribution to the discussion. The trouble is, I don't know the comics. Am so grateful to those who do. Is there a comics character who is linked to poor Raina or is she something new?
A Lola spying machine!
So what are Mac and Bobbi up to? I'm confused. And concerned. :-/
Also, does anyone else feel like Simmons is being ... weird? With everyone else, I could understand their reactions based on trauma, grief, etc. But Simmons just seems off. Not her normal self.
Oh Mack. He made a mini-Lola to spy on Coulson. That cuts deep.
I've been trying to figure out who Raina is, javelina, but so far, no luck.
Nice promo. As I said in another thread, looking forward for Skye's "Willow / Echo" arc / journey to get there powers under control.
I don't think that Mac and Bobbi are Hydra. Isn't Maria Hill working for Tony? Maybe a connection there? Or to Talbot?

What blue prints were they (including Coulson earlier) talking about? That house with Bashir or some place else?
Maybe Simmons is off after being exposed to whatever is down under. Or maybe she's Inhuman, too, but didn't get exposed to enough of the Terrigen mist. Or maybe there's also something else down in that underground place.
I don't think she's thinking of what happened to Raina (and Skye) as having to do with them being something different, but she's thinking of it as them being altered by a virus. So her reaction doesn't surprise me as much with what she knows so far.

Plus last year she almost lost (and some ways did lose) Fitz and this year she lost Trip.

[ edited by NYPinTA on 2015-03-04 04:07 ]
So the blind guy is basically the Nightcrawler replacement in the MCU.

Wow... Hydra is really getting their butts handed to them lately. That won't continue.
Fury's Toolbox... O.O

I understand Fitz wanting to protect Skye, but these people really need to learn keeping secrets just causes their problems to get worse each time.

Speculation is Raina might be a more tortured and female version of Quill. She won't be a mutant obviously but neither is Daisy in this version.

Eyeless Guy probably isn't Reader. Reader can't teleport like that.

hann23-They had an outline of the underground City, they were going to explore it before the mess with Ward, Raina etc went down.

[ edited by Dusk on 2015-03-04 04:13 ]

[ edited by Dusk on 2015-03-04 04:13 ]
It does seem that Simmons is worried about some sort of virus that is likely to spread, but she (or Fitz) will figure out the connection between the alien DNA in Skye's blood, and the changes.

Fitz wins the Big Damn Hero Award tonight.
I think Fitz is becoming the heart of this show/team. He's also well on his way to becoming one of my favorite Whedon characters ever.
I want to adopt Fitz.
I didn't notice in the opening credits... is Brett Dalton still listed as a regular cast member?
I wonder if there is something in Simmons past that involved some sort of virus/epidemic.

Also, calling it now, Bobbi/Mack are working for Stark.

(I'm probably wrong)
Raina looks like the comic Raina (a Saurid) imo.
Close Grack, imo Bobbi/Mack are working for Maria Hill.
This makes me wonder whether, back when Fitz sustained the brain damage, the show's creators/writers were already thinking, "He will understand best what it feels like for Skye to be suddenly different."
Well that was a lot to digest, although the pace kept moving I think it was a bit of a mixed bag:

The Good: Fitz' scenes, both freak out and reconciliation, were terrific. Skye I think shined in her moments as vulnerable/guilt panged survivor, and Mack delivered some needed raw angst. Always good to see Crazy Doc. I totally get where Simmons is coming from - I think it's absolutely IN character for her to react this way to what she sees as a contagion that is killing people

The Bad: I'm entirely unclear on who/what sparked the Hydra / Godfather style execution of middle management. Also unclear how Raina found Crazy Doc. The fire fight, even tho' staged by SHIELD, may have been worst action scene I've ever seen. Reminded me of the grocery store shoot out scene in Hot Fuzz

The WTF: Did Hunter shoot the unarmed Hydra guy in the head? Dead?

Liked the Von Strucker references for Avengers tie in, liked Hunter's American accent and RadioShack joke.

Clearly we are in for some intramural squabbling - it's a Whedon produced show, can anyone be surprised?
@TallMichaelJ Raina said something to Cal about that being how they used to travel, so she knew to find him trying to get out of town with his old methods.
I think Bakshi triggered the middle management death train. He went to the one and that guy ordered the deaths of the rest. Then when it was nearly done Bobbi and Hunter pulled the trigger (literally) on the last one, then took Bakshi back so they could hand him over to Talbot.


I was thinking though about what Simmons said. I get where she's coming from and a lot of her reaction being grief and guilt, etc. However... when they were fighting and the mention of the Avengers came up and later Simmons said it was all because they were messing with alien artifacts it occurred to me that no it isn't all because of that. Steve was made into Captain America by humans to fight other humans. The fact he ended up confronting Red Skull means it was lucky they had enhanced someone who could take him on. Tony became Ironman out of survival, and to undo things that were his fault, which was making human weapons to kill other humans. Hulk: accident. Nothing inhuman about it. Thor first came to Earth because his father banished him here. He didn't show up to take something alien out of humanity's hand. Loki came back for the tesseract but I suspect he would have found another reason to mess with Earth anyhow, just to yank Thor's chain. So, no, the Avengers weren't necessary just because SHIELD couldn't resist messing with things beyond their capacity. The stuff exists. And if SHIELD hadn't intervened, then Red Skull would still have the tesseract and HYDRA would rule everything. Blaming "inhumans" is short sighted and just kind of lazy actually. When you've got people like Ward walking around that had nothing to do with anything "inhuman" to take the focus off actions and zero in on matters beyond a person's control... well, I don't understand that kind of logic. It does not make me happy. I hope Simmons comes to her senses.
SHIELD didn't exist yet when Red Skull was around.
SHIELD didn't exist yet when Red Skull was around.

If SHIELD is indeed the SSR reorganized (which is how its been portrayed) then it was around.
Re: Raina. 2nd thoughts.

I saw an Inhuman named Naja proposed elsewhere and she also fits the physique. She seems somewhat less powerful than the comic Raina.
Her powers are flight, invisibility tied to emotional control, fighting claws, & enhanced senses. All of these powers seem easier to portray
than the comic Raina. The emotional control part is the factor which makes me think this is more likely.
I'm late to the party but this was another good episode. My quick thoughts: The eyeless guy's powers were fucking neat! Poor Raina got left in the cold by Cal. Would Jemma really turn on Skye if she knew about her true nature? I'm not sure. Coulson took out the heads of Hydra in a very cold blooded Mafia-like fashion, I like it alot! WHAT are Bobbi and Mack up to?!
I just remembered that last season Jemma was exposed to a alien virus so her reaction to eradicate all forms of the inhuman 'virus' are understandable when you remember that she almost died and has now lost a friend to this.
Hunter vs. Hunter. Delicious casting joke.
Love it.

Predicted Coulson's plan early on - also that no eyes guy was gonna pick up Raina.

Enjoyed Skye surprisingly enough. Finally, I am intrigued by her and I think I would be even more when I make that sit down to marathon all the episodes from season 1 up to now.

Mac and Bobbi having a anti-Coulson secret (want Fury's box?) was always known - but using Coulson's love for gadgets. Nefarious! I love it.

Ok. So Coulson and Simmons scared me. Especially Simmons with her black and white view of the superpowered folk. I will forgive her coz - Tripp *sniff*

The look on Coulson's face when he went to his - who I'm gonna assume is- his mother was probably my favorite. Well, second favorite next to my baby Fitz being da MAN and protecting Skye. Gave me a mini scare right there. I wanted to join their hug fest - got a tad emotional myself.

Interesting if the next episode according to the promo means that secrets will be revealed faster than we thought. I am VERY much in favorite of not stretching such plot lines to far.

All in all an action packed, story moving start.

Good job writers / actors et al.
I think Simmons and Mack's respective rants in this episode were laying the groundwork for the AoS wing of the "Civil War" storyline that's coming up in the MCU. That was a storyline in the comics in which the government, alarmed at the growing power of super-people, passes a law requiring them to be registered so that the govt can keep tabs on them. Some of the supers go along with it, while others (led by Captain America) absolutely refuse. This leads to a civil war between former allies.

I'm afraid Fitz and Simmons are fated to be on opposite sides of this conflict.
Incredible episode- so glad we got to see more of Dichen (hope she gets a proper scene with Cal at some point in flashback form...I really want to see more on this backstory.)

Also the take down of the Hydra middle-management, reminded me alittle of Angel's simultaneous take down of the circle of the Black-Thorn
(Of course here Colsoun got them to take out their own memebers, rather than assigning each of his team a specific target.)
While I'm not exactly sure on the specifics of how Coulson tricked Hydra into assassinating its own leaders (will re-watch to clarify), one thing I love about this show is that stuff actually happens... Unlike another show I watch (hint: the title rhymes with "The Rocking Shed") I'm continually amazed how much stuff Whedon shows are able to pack into 42 minutes.

I often find myself thinking, "Okay, so much has happened already, this must be the last commercial break." Then I'll fast forward and see that I'm only halfway through the show! (Which is not unlike waking up early thinking you have to go to work and then realizing you still have another hour before you need to get up).

Contrast that with "the other show" where I frequently find myself still waiting for something (ANYTHING) to happen when the end credits roll.

As far as show specifics, there was a lot to like:
- "You'll never take me alive!"
- Fitz's understanding and covering for Skye
- Seeing Dichen again
- Chloe Bennet's excellent (and underappreciated) acting skills

Cause for Alarm:
- Jemma and the Inhuman hate
- Mack flipping out on Coulson and blaming Skye
- Bobbi and Mack being all double agenty

Closing thought:
- Hunter would have to be pretty stupid to believe that Bobbi and Mack's "other thing" is a support group. What kind of "support group" requires the hiding of a USB thumb drive? I'm hoping he realized it was a lie and decided that since she wasn't going to trust him, he should not trust her and just pretended to believe her story.
@Penthos I'm thinking (hopeing?) Hunter knows she's lying and he's just pretending to believe her so she'll think he's off her scent. Because I think Hunter is a lot smarter than he lets on. (Probably specifically because of his former experience with her.)
Dusk, I thought Reader could teleport anywhere he knows/can see. Am I mis-remembering that? Why couldn't he be hanging out within a reasonable distance and teleport in to save Raina?
What blue prints were they (including Coulson earlier) talking about? That house with Bashir or some place else?

hann23 | March 04, 04:03 CET


Mac wanted the blueprints of the SHIELD station that they were working in — his stated reason was to double-check the ventilation system to ensure that, if Skye was somehow contagious, there would not be any possibility of air transmission. His real reason was to have help determining where Coulson had hidden Fury's toolbox. He could then confirm with Bobbi that the location inside the desk was the only possible hiding place.
It makes sense for both Simmons and Mack to have the most adverse reaction to anything alien. They've both nearly died at this point from something alien (FZZT for Simmons, the city for Mack). Although Simmons was able to see how the GHB formula helped Skye, so this is partly a new attitude.

So who is supposed to be the Big Bad for this season? Bakshi? Cal? Neither of them feel quite bad enough yet. I feel like another shoe needs to drop at some point; either the group of Inhumans needs to come together and become eeevil, or Bakshi/Cal needs to cement themselves as eeeevil. Unless we are going to have a bait-and-switch, like Dark Willow.

Curious as to where Ward and 33 were this week.
Okay, I'm calling it; Bobbi and Mac work for SWORD.
IrrationaliTV: Oops, what threw me off was the lack of braille cards. It probably is him after all.

I don't think they can use SWORD as the showrunners told CBR back in Season 1 because it's technically an X-Men thing.

Penthos-Coulson had Hunter pretend he was working for the other managers of Hydra making Balkshi and his boss think the others wanted them dead. Balshi's boss had agents loyal to him wipe out the other managers in revenge. Once that was done Hunter and Bobbi killed Balkshi's boss and recaptured him for Tallbot.
If SHIELD is indeed the SSR reorganized (which is how its been portrayed) then it was around.

The SSR was only one component of SHIELD. It became the scientific division (which Fitz and Simmons worked for).
@AndrewCrossett That's not quite what I got from viewing any of the movies or TV episodes. It seemed to me that it was presented as the only agency that was folded into SHIELD.
SHIELD has a much more expansive mission than the SSR had. The SSR was only concerned with science and technology: developing new tech to serve the national interests, and acquiring, destroying, or neutralizing tech in the hands of America's enemies. SHIELD did that too, but in the context of a full intelligence, espionage, and military organization.
@AndrewCrossett I think I see the problem. We are using the same language but sadly that language is English. To me component meant
form and organization while you seem to be zeroing in on function. In any case the organization was around even if it functions were
somewhat different than they would later become.
I would love to see the org charts over time. Also, SSR is American, I think, while SHIELD is international. Is that right?
SHIELD started out as an American agency, then grew to become international when it came under the command of the World Security Council.
Not sure it was a purely American Agency during the War. That was never made clear. Imo it was a joint British-American effort that
became nearly all US once hostilities ceased due to Britain's need for post-war austerity.

[ edited by JDL on 2015-03-06 05:25 ]
There's a lot of difference between SHIELD's comics origin story and its MCU origin story. (For one thing, in MCU continuity Nick Fury wasn't around in WW2).

We haven't really seen the details of SHIELD's MCU founding. I hope Agent Carter will continue and they can deal with it there.
Compare and contrast: Cal telling Raina to kill herself because she was different and Fitz reassuring Skye there's nothing wrong with being different.
I liked some things in this episode-- Fitz, Dichen, Fitz, Skye, Fitz, Raina getting saved by the eyeless guy, and Fitz...but I couldn't buy either Simmons' or Mac's PTSD, especially Simmons. I hope her new-found mutant-hate is a temporary insanity that she's going to back down from, because it felt very manufactured-to-create-conflict and out of character to me.
Ok, so, I'm just going to throw this out there: Mac and Bobbi are after Fury's toolbox. Who might want Fury's toolbox but doesn't want people to know he's still around? Hint: his name rhymes with Schmick Schmury.

JCS; as a veteran with PTSD, I can totally buy Mac's and Simmons'. Mac, because his body was taken over and he was forced to watch while "he" killed a bunch of people. Think mind-rape. Simmons because, as others previously mentioned, she was exposed to a similar virus that nearly killed her, she's grown way apart from the only stability she's known (Fitz), and Tripp's death (which I think was a dick move). Yeah, they would both have some serious PTSD.

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