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April 07 2015

(SPOILER) Discuss Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 2x16 "Afterlife". This episode was written by Craig Titley and directed by Kevin Hooks.

This room is so dark.
My cable connector is fixed, ready to go !
Yay! JDL can see!
Shhhh...it's on!
Oh goody. Salesmen. I can't escape. ;)
Looks like our SHIELD has gone dark.
Ha. Superpower snark. I like him.
Lincoln is introduced.
Nope. Not liking Gonzales any more than I did before.
Did she just get abducted by aliens?
Wonder where all this conviction is coming from. Still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but certain opinions are getting hard to get by.
I enjoyed Lance's recap of last week.
I want a miniseries of Hunter and Coulson's cross-country crime spree.
More and more, Gonzales is reading "evil" to me. Not necessarily Hydra, but ...

I liked the "Afterlife" reveal.
LaiXi? I'm fluent in mandarin, and doen'st exactly sound like anything. Unless they're being almost literal with the 'afterlife" thing.... which would make it like 來死, after death... to be more precise.
I really, really want Gonzales to be good. But yeah, I get villain vibes from him for sure.
I'm getting more hypocrite than evil vibes.

[ edited by NYPinTA on 2015-04-08 02:16 ]
Considering that Gonzales is not aware about Fury still says a lot.
I want a miniseries of Hunter and Coulson's cross-country crime spree.

Lance impressed by Coulson's petty criminal skills. Coulson quietly enjoying breaking rules.
I'd watch that.
He seems more focused on hunting "specials" than anything else.
Don't like where this is going...
I bet the box contains info on errant SHIELD agents to beware of.
I think we're going back to Skye/Daisye as Earthquake Elsa analogy.
A hint at Quake's gauntlets?
Betcha she misses her van now.
Poor Hunter! That'll teach him to trust Coulson!
Mmm. So many Potentials exist but aren't Chosen often.

Global. Terrigen. Bomb.
WTF is Earthquake Elsa?
I'm guessing a Frozen reference..?
I could go for a global Terrigen bomb. Might make life more interesting.
Battering ram...
Earthquake Elsa was from a comment from last week's thread, Sunfire got it from someone else, it was cute Frozen reference....
He can fly too right?!? Cuz that'd be sweet.
So Simmons was beaming with pride when Fitz told off Gonzales but she's going to help?
ooo Simmons is not opening the box, is she.
Howling Commandos!
Gemma is double playing them again, right? Like knocking out Bobbi....
Yeah, I'm wondering if she's playing a long con.
Are the Elders the Royal Family?
Oh that doesn't sound good...
OK. What does that mean?
Never a good sign when someone says "sealed your fate."

Unlikely they are the royal family. Probably just leaders of this Earth faction.
OK, so nice helpful Gordon may be a problem too. Jeez, poor Skye.

The Howling Commandos kit was ace.
These two should always be on screen together.
"I've watched May fly." Oh nooo.
Well that was disappointing... Coulson.
YAY!! (needed to say it twice.)
Best trio ever!
The three of them need their own show!

Wait...

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-04-08 02:42 ]
How is she alive? Can she regenerate?
!!!!! Did not believe that was coming.
Well well well, lots of reveals tonight!
Can she multiply herself, and a dupe was the one that was killed?
Not aging is basically just really good self-repair of cells. So. I didn't expect them to go there, though.
Gah! Dichen!

Nice call on Mike Peterson, Coulson. And Jemma, I am disappoint.

But gah! Dichen!
There are some really twisty surprises in this episode! Really digging it!
I think Fitz and Simmons are playing them.
Whoa. Miracle heal or shapeshifter?
I think Fitz and Simmons are playing them.

Agreed.
I *hope* Fitz & Simmons are playing them. Or Simmons is & didn't tell Fitz so he won't be culpable.
,I think Fitz and Simmons are playing them.

Yup!

Could have & did are two different things.
Yes. Please have your mom be your guide!
Nope. Don't like/trust/believe Gonzales at all.
Uh, if you make someone a fugitive, don't be surprised when they act like one.
Our bad option...
Damn. The only thing missing is an Avenger & a kitchen sink!
I so hope Fitz finds Hunter, Coulson, & Mike & rounds out the awesome.
The third shoe drops! Wait, too many shoes.
New meaning to Cal wanting to get his family together in the afterlife.
Bad option. BAD option. Huge!

But interesting.
The show's not over, yet, NYPinTA. We may still get an Avenger, or at least a commercial.
Team FitzSimmons!
Aww! Love that ending!
Ok, I teared up a bit with the sandwich.
I am definitely not ready for next week's Melinda flashbacks.
The look on Fitz's face was pure joy.
Sunfire, me either.
Wow. So Cal knew his wife was still alive?!

Skye and Raina together, Skye unknowingly being trained by her Mom, May joins SHIELD 2, Fitz on his own with the Toolbox, Simmons a spy within a spy organization, Hunter, Deathlok, Coulson on a mission to Ward.

Nobody can say it moves too slow anymore!
Oh man loved this episode tonight.So many surprise.

The return of JAR as Deathlok.

Skye's mom being alive and now training her.Can't wait until Skye finds that out.

My favorite though is the FitzSimmons twist at the end.Way to go FitzSimmons.They had me fooled there until we got the tag.
Hopefully next week's won't be a stall to get the story closer to Age of Ultron.
If anything is likely to be a stall it'll probably be episode 20, closest to AOU's release in US/Canada.
Hot diggity that sandwich looked delicious! I was 99% sure Fitz and Simmons were working together, especially after how oddly Fitz was acting when he handled the Cube in front of her back at the base. Great to see the payoff though!
I'm a vegan, so now I want a veggie bologna hoagie with hot peppers on it. Thanks, Jemma!
I think Shield vs. Shield will be the major arc of this season, and AoU will influence it some in the end, but not be a major focus until season 3. So less of a need to stall, if I'm guessing right.
I'm sorry to say I trust neither Gordon, nor Skye's mother.
Well - that was a bagful of surprises. Deathlok and SkyeMom in the same episode and neither expected. Throw in some Raina and CrazyDoc and you have quite the motley crew tonite ...

Do enjoy how no one this episode seems to be exactly what they seem. Clearly the Inhuman camp is not as benign as they present themselves, Gonzales is SHIELD loyal, but clearly bigoted when it comes to "powers" and FitzSimmons played their parts quite nicely

I will say I think the show flounders a bit when there are two storylines that run in parallel - I found myself disappointed when the SHIELD stuff had to cut away to go back to Skye ... though I'm sure with the number of episodes left things will begin to pick up steam towards a conclusion where once again all forces converge

Hopefully next week is not exclusively a flashback episode - no need t kill forward momentum now
I don't trust SkyMom either. The way she looked at Cal, man, somethings up there.

Also, at this point I except Spider Man and Ellen Ripley to show up. :P
I'm glad they addressed that the Skye/Raina transition was no longer the norm. That disposes of a potential serious plot problem.

[ edited by JDL on 2015-04-08 03:43 ]
I think perhaps SkyMom (what was her name? Has anyone actually said it?) is much different than she was before Whitehall got a hold of her and took her apart piece by piece. But now I wonder if she hadn't found Cal after he thought she was dead and sent him to find Skye and maybe even to find Raina. Because it seemed like he was acting on his own and used the knowledge he had to try and rebuild what she had been doing but it was twisted by his ... twistiness.
Her name is Jiaying.

I'm just disturbed by the fact that she still seems loving and affectionate toward Cal despite... the way he is.

[ edited by AndrewCrossett on 2015-04-08 03:43 ]
Something is weird. Because Cal was very eloquent - truthfully, I thought - about Whitehall's murder of his wife.
Thanks AndrewCrossett. I think though that her affection was an act to get what she needed from him. I just got that sense...
JDL-- good catch about that callback to Cal's line about wanting to get his family together in the afterlife. I had totally forgotten that bit. But now that Skye's mom is back, maybe that is a sign we could see the return of Daniel Whitehall again--after all, he stole her power of not aging, maybe he also got the full resurrection power. Maybe we'll see him in a later episode getting free from a coffin and returning to the light of day. I would love to see Reed Diamond back as that character.
I had the same thought, barzai. We really never saw Whitehall as Kraken.
Most definitely got the vibe that SkyeMom was perfectly content to hug her husband and then order his execution. What with NoEyes already proclaiming that CrazyDoc had sealed his fate, it seems he may have outlived his usefulness. Add in Lincoln already passively lying to Skye and it's not clear how purely noble the Inhuman intentions are ....

Honestly, as geeky cool as it was to see the Inhumans on TV I'm not overly thrilled with their portrayal to date. The compound looked like a hipster botanical garden spot populated by a bunch of pretty college kids. Just think they're hard to portray on a TV budget. At least Deathlok is looking a little better ...
I wonder what's in the little box. Bet it's an engagement ring!
I would be surprised if the Skye/Raina transition is not the ignition point for the Inhumans coming out of the closet so to speak.
Maybe there's nothing in the box. Maybe it's a loyalty/trust test.
If there is one every few years, there have to be more than we have seen. Either more of them will come out of the closet, or more will be activated by a Terrigen bomb.
So when I realized Dichen was in alot of upcoming episodes I started to suspect her character was still alive and I'm pleasantly surprised I was right. I just wish I had posted about it already like I almost did a few days ago.
I find it interesting that these Inhumans are limiting their numbers.
The box contains the same thing that was in the briefcase in Pulp Fiction.
I am surprised (and pleased) that Skye's mom is apparently still alive. More Dichen, yay! Though this version of Jiaying seems more sinister than the one we've seen in other flashbacks.

Though a small part of me wonders whether it's really Jiaying? After all, these people have superpowers ... there could be an Inhuman who's a shapeshifter type, and is choosing to look like Jiaying in order to manipulate Cal and Skye/Daisy.

I think the emotional payoff will be greater for Skye if it's really her mom ... but there could be some interesting stories to explore either way.

I'm also curious when/how Cal found out that his wife is apparently still alive ... he's acting like he's known for a while, but this seems inconsistent with many of the things he's said in the past. But wherever this is going, I'm intrigued.

I also love the FitzSimmons parts of the episode. Instead of driving them apart, the conflict is bringing them back together--the moment shit gets bad, they're back to working together. I love that they can practically read each others' minds, and that they manage to trick Bobbi and Mack and Adama. Simmons has come a long way with the lying, and her stint in Hydra serves her well here.

Though I wonder how long it will be before they figure out the cube they have is a fake.

Anyhow, very good episode! Lots of cool things happening this week. And I'm delighted to see the return of Mike Petersen, as well. Hope he sticks around a while.
SkyeMom's scars make me wonder if it isnt someone else just wearing her skin. o.O
I just wish I had posted about it already like I almost did a few days ago.

eddy


I'm glad you didn't. I really don't want to see spoilers in discussions about an episode we are currently watching.

SkyeMom's scars make me wonder if it isnt someone else just wearing her skin. o.O

Grack21


I was wondering the same thing. There are so many ways this could go in the Marvel universe - shape-shifters, and magic helmets, and masks that make you look like Melinda May or some chubby dude - that she may really be Daniel Whitehall in Dichen Lachman skin.

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-04-08 06:08 ]
Nope, she says specifically to Cal that Skye is "our daughter." Plus, she has those wicked scars. So I'm thinking she was dead for a bit, but regenerated days or weeks later and by then, Cal had already gone on a rampage.

Which means, well, they better start looking for Whitehall's body, because he might not be dead either.

[ edited by alliterator on 2015-04-08 06:37 ]
The sandwich was the sweetest thing ever on this show.

I find a callback episode kind of random at this point? Like, we're on a bit of a cliffhanger, but this is the first time since the show returned that I'm not dying to know what's next (just really excited). So now they're doing a flashback? It doesn't seem like a super-pertinent one, either, but maybe I'm missing the point.

I suppose if you sewed back Jiayang (spelling?) with other organs, she might come back together. FrankenSkyeMom!

Super happy to get Mike back. :)
Been wondering for awhile when they would bring back Deathlok, so I was very excited to see him return. (And very happy we got a scene between Cal and SkyeMom- here's hoping we get a full family reunion at some point soon!)
Just a random suggestion: I think it would be helpful if there was a 'discuss' tag for these posts. For those of us who watch episodes or read comic issues well into the future due to local airdates, life happenings and such, it can be fun to dig up the old 'discuss' threads and see people's reactions and insights. Having a 'discuss' or 'official discussion thread' tag would make these posts a little bit easier to find. But it's not the end of the world either way.
Nebula, it was just speculation that turned out to be right, not a spoiler.

And at the time, it was a preview thread for a future episode which themselves are spoilers.
Yes, speculation is fine. And preview threads are spoiler-laden anyway.
First of all: I think I will have to wait a whole week to watch Age of Ultron, just to synchronize it properly with the show :/ It gets released here a week early, on April 23rd, so I would watch it before episode 19, which is the last episode shown before the movie's release in the states. It will be so hard to wait but I think it will be nicer/safer in the end. God, a whole week of knowing Age of Ultron is running and I can't see it XD

Now, on the episode: I absolutely, absolutely loved it. So many twists and reveals, emotion and cool moments!

I am so happy to see Dichen and JAR again, but I really don't trust Skye's mum. I do believe it is Skye's mum, not someone else, but extremely changed, probably due to what she went through with Whitehall. I also got that vibe that she would not have a problem ordering Cal's execution. When she hugged him, I half expected her to gut him that second. I hope he will survive a lot longer though, I am always excited to see Kyle is in another episode. But I do fear he is overstaying his welcome, and losing his usability to the Inhumans.

I'm enjoying the Inhumans plot, since I haven't read the comics I don't find myself disappointed with how they are portrayed. The other guy's power is pretty cool, that whole place and everything kinda reminded me of the mutants from the X-Men movies. (I feel like such a fool only being able to refer to the movies of the Marvel Verse).

I was extremely happy to see Deathlok again. And even though I saw JAR post on Facebook that he returns just last night, I had completely forgotten by the time I watched the episode and was so surprised!! Also, really starting to love Hunter <3

FitzSimmons <3 <3 <3 warmed my heart. For a second there I was actually worried that Simmons might be brainwashed Hydra after all, but the whole conversation they had about serving Shield and Fitz leaving, it felt like a hint that him leaving would mean he would then be able to serve Shield. And yay I was right! Loved the Sandwich moment as well. So good to see them getting closer again.
I LOVED how Simmons and Fitz discussed their plan infront of everyone. Fitz understood Simmons was making a copy when he saw that she was taking measurements, and when he asked her, she said "I was hoping we could work together on this" and "you need to help me get it out." And he said "you knew this was driving me away, you may as well have packed my bags yourself". There, making their plan, in front of everyone with no-one the wiser. Priceless.
Yes, this is an episode that will definitely require a re-watch to catch all the secret communication between Fitz and Simmons. Simmons kicks butt again with SCIENCE!

I think that's really Skye's mom, and she has a healing factor that allows her to regenerate even missing organs.

My fear is that she and Gordon are secretly continuing the original Kree agenda with the Inhumans... to make an army of super soldiers. I could even see Cal deciding that's not going to work for him, and turning out to be a big damn hero by rescuing Skye, or helping to rescue her. I think Lincoln is probably innocent/clueless.

I wonder when Fake SHIELD will figure out that's not the real Toolbox. Probably when they realize it's not made of vibranium, but if they continue to trust Simmons as the lead researcher, that could be a long time. Hopefully, the switcheroo wasn't caught on any surveillance cameras.

[ edited by AndrewCrossett on 2015-04-08 14:26 ]
So much goodness in the episode but really the comebacks are my favs:

Deathlok :D

Skye!Daddy

OMG Skye!Mommy isn't dead!!

and the best of all....

FitzSimmons are back!!!


Also Bobbie seems to be somewhat regretful of playing her friends. An Avengers hint - Coulson's watching hydra guy experimenting on gifted overseas (Twins anyone? *omg its almost may 1st)

p.s. yeah we all knew Fitz and Simmons were working together from the moment Leo realized what she was doing. But it made me happy nonetheless.

[ edited by Mirage on 2015-04-08 15:35 ]
I agree that Bobbi does seem to be regretting how things played out. And in a reverse this situation has brought Fitz and Simmons back together but it might pull Bobbi and Mack in opposite directions because I think Bobbi is going to be one of the first on Team Gonzales to question his position and see Coulson & Co. as the real SHIELD.

I am curious what May will do. She might decide the best place is to be on that board, but I don't think that means she sees Gonzales and his as the real SHIELD any more than Simmons does. And as much as I'm not looking forward to the next episode, because I don't think it's going to be kind towards May, I do think it's going to be important.

Seems the main theme this season isn't so much evil hiding within the ranks (as Hydra had been) but good people being changed by circumstance, (such as Hydra hiding in their ranks). I do think all of what the others are saying about Gonzales being a good man is true. But things happened and he's (in my opinion) making bad choices. Same with SkyeMom perhaps. I think she's been changed by what Whitehall did to her. Everyone is retreating and acting in defense of things that happened to them previously so they can't happen again. Which is how I was choosing to see Simmons brief venture into the "dark side", which she seems to have gotten over. Maybe. I mean, she might not have changed her mind on Inhumans.
Gonzales has a bad habit of letting Coulson's foxes into his henhouse. These people have no real reason to be disloyal to Coulson, no reason to be loyal to Gonzales, yet he keeps putting them in positions to do damage. Now they've lost the Toolbox, and May is going to be in a position to help take down nuSHIELD from within when the time comes.

Hard to believe that Gonzales is really that incompetent a leader.
Gonzales strikes me as a guy who probably was a good company man, but maybe never leadership material, who's only in this position due to a leadership vacuum. We've already seen him get overruled by his own team in the flashback episode, and his meeting with May was predicated on being told he was handling it wrong. Seems like he's trying to do the right things, but is fundamentally flawed in his approach (including his hatred of "powers" types, which I have to believe is the AoS piece that'll tie to Civil War)
I think Gonzales has a blind spot to the idea that other people don't automatically buy into the idea that his SHIELD is the real one. He knows that Coulson's people are good loyal SHIELD agents and keeps assuming that's going to automatically translate into loyalty to his version of SHIELD without any extra work beyond just walking in and taking over and saying "hey, here we are, real SHIELD, miss us?"

I do think he's got more of a plan with putting May on the board than he's revealed so far, though. He told Bobbi that he was using her as some kind of leverage - presenting what he was about to do as a unilateral decision by him alone, but he told May that he'd been outvoted in how he was treating her. I don't understand what he plans to do with that maneuver but I don't think it's as simple as it's being presented to viewers so far.
Well, sure she says "our daughter". But she could be lying you know.
I'm so ready for a Marvel One Shot of Hunter and Coulson On The Road.
I have mixed feelings about the story right now. I do like the characters but it is starting to feel like a little like Scandal with all the camps and powers and sabotage and spies from within. And usually I enjoy this type of story line. In fact, when the story became evident I was happy because it gave voice to the concerns that I had about Coulson and his choices. But now, something is just not clicking. It did not resonate with me last night.

Like a few here, I am enjoying the Inhuman stories but I am not familiar with their story in the comics. Its new for me and I find it fascinating. Believe it or not, the Skye and Crazy Kyle moments were my favorite.

I am also finding Bobbi tiring and I want to like her. I think Im frustrated that, except for Simmons, my strong female characters are not being strong. Everyone is walking around on tip toes trying to figure everyone else out. And poor May is barely the focus. I am so glad that shes the driver for the next one. I want to hear more from her.

I struggle still with writing issues. I did not believe that Gonzales would NOT have rigged the cabin to alert him the second Coulson or anyone showed up. Maybe I need more background story on Gonzales to get a sense of him.

And I needed a little more on how SkyeMom was still alive. Did I miss the foreshadowing for that? I thought SkyeMom was super duper dead and chopped up in itty bitty pieces and in Whitehall. I do like the speculation that Whitehall is wearing SkyeMom.

I have sympathy for Crazy Kyle. He has dealt with a A LOT.

Maybe I just want to see my team back together. Maybe I need to rewatch the episode.

PS. I love the Earthquake Elsa concept. Next week Let it go Skye!
I liked the nod to Superman II with the holograms. And it was a good jampacked episode.
@hann23-There was no hint within the show that she was alive. We just knew she didn't age and Whitehall got some of his youth back by dissecting some of powers. (So maybe Whitehall will be back as well).

Just before the break Cal told Coulson his ultimate goal was to reunite his family "in the afterlife."Now we know he was not suicidal or anything and he meant both wife and daughter. From the flashback we saw of Young Cal, he must have initially believed she was dead but found out later she healed.

The Inhuman story is all new characters even for the comic readers. Quake is actually a mutant in the comics and except for Cal/Mr. Hyde being her father, her origin is quite different from Skye's. The comic knowledge just makes the mechanics of the Terrigen/Kree weapon history easier to follow. And leads to speculation on where/what exactly is going on with The Royal Family building up to the movie.
Thanks @Dusk that helps!
Your welcome!
Or Cal found his wife in pieces and he put her back together because isn't he also a doctor? And then her powers kicked in and she healed, but with obvious scars. (ETA: I think finding and then having to sew my wife back together knowing what she had to have gone through to end up in that state given what her power is would drive me crazy too.)

[ edited by NYPinTA on 2015-04-09 04:52 ]
Good point NYPinTA. Although so far they've implied his unstable behavior is because he experimented on himself to get monster strength.
Dusk said:
"Wow. So Cal knew his wife was still alive?!"

If he didn't know before all the rescue-Skye-and-kill-Whitehall happenings of this season, then maybe he found out and had a week or two to process it since being taken to the mountain retreat by Gordon. That line about the "afterlife" that folks caught on to from episodes ago is mighty hinty, though. We seriously need more flashbacks for him and Skye's mom.

Thought Whitehall died a little too easily and a lot too soon, so will be happy to see him back, if he was able to regenerate. Heck, if they wanna reveal him in Avengers 2 as a mini-threat on the way to the bigger bads, I'd kinda love that.

Re: Skye's mom being chopped up into pieces--technically she was, since organs were removed, but I think he just pulled back the skin to get at them. The, um, flaps ? Might have re-stitched themselves some time after her body had been dumped. Didn't we see a younger Cal find her mostly intact corpse in one of the few flashbacks with younger-him ?
I don't really want to see Whitehall come back. Reed Diamond is great, but I'm tired of whack-a-mole villains who are never really dead. Time to move on to bigger bads.

I don't want to see this become another show where death means nothing.
@Kris-We did see Younger Cal find what was left of her he seemed devastated and swore revenge. So at the time he thought she was dead, but must have been shown otherwise at some point. Maybe SkyeMom was never that badly damaged before so it was a surprise to everyone she could heal from that.

The backstory we have is: Mom was an Inhuman mentor to Gordon. At some point in the 40s she was captured by Whitehall who found out she was immune to the Diviner but the Nazis fell before he could go any further. A few decades later he got out of prison when they captured her again in China. He dissected her and got some of his youth back. At this time she and Cal were being doctors together and people claiming to be SHIELD took her away. Those were really HYDRA within. They apparently got Baby Skye as well. Cal found his wife's remains and swore vengeance.Somehow SHIELD got word of a baby being an 084 and stole her from explicitly a HYDRA team. Cal showed up and slaughtered all the HYDRA there starting a rumor that a Chinese village was massacred by monsters who wanted a baby back. Skye spent her life purposely bounced in the foster system so she couldn't be tracked. Over the years Cal gave himself monster strength and filled Raina's head with ideas about what she could be after the stories her grandmother told her. By S1 all except 1 of the agents that had rescued baby Skye were dead, probably killed by the HYDRA within. Raina had joined HYDRA thinking they could help her change but ditched them in between seasons.
Dusk, I was thinking more about how Jiaying survived what Whitehall did to her and less about why Cal is crazy. I'd say both were factors.
True. I'm just putting her survival up to comic powers logic.
I think Cal sewing her up qualifies... if it was a comic written by Neil Gaiman... ;) (Because it's supernatural and also supercreepy!)
So I had been behind. I just watched the last three eps last night and am glad I'm finally caught up. A lot has happened in three episodes.

I called FitzSimmons the moment Fitz was told Gemma was trying to open the box and the payoff at the end was amazing.

I saw Dichen's name in the credits and wondered if there was going to be a flashback or if she was going to be alive again. I'm glad she's alive. I also thought she was going to gut Cal after that hug. Something has changed in her besides the scars. I think it'll be interesting to see how she came back. Cal sewing her up is a good theory. I can't think of anything myself so I'll just watch and wait for them to reveal it. She's going to be on a bunch more eps this season so I think they'll at least hint what happened.

This show just keeps getting better and better.

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