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May 05 2015

(SPOILER) Discuss Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 2x20 "Scars". This is the next to last episode of the season. As a reminder, next week's episode is two hours long. This week's episode was written by Rafe Judkins and Lauren LeFranc. It was directed by Bobby Roth.

Those of us who have seen Age of Ultron should be mindful about giving away spoilers to people who have not seen it.

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-05-06 01:50 ]
Also, by this time next week we should know what's going to happen with Agent Carter and this possible spin-off. Upfronts are coming and next Tuesday is ABC's presentation.
Kind of a bummer. Hayley Atwell will be at the Philly Comic Con this Saturday, but I'm sure she will keep mum about it.
Sam and Billy!
Nice music choice...
Star Wars jammies....

[ edited by Numfar PTB on 2015-05-06 02:04 ]
Wait. It's that hellcarrier.
The Theta Protocol.
And there goes the Age of Ultron tie-in
So...he's making them his boss?
I'm hoping to get into her presentation so if I do I'll let folks know. Waiting for youngest to go to sleep. He's wide awake. Grrrrrrr.
Sam and Billy's opening made me happy.
Raina is just such a trouble maker.
So that's the secret cargo!
Whose presentation hann23?
Or not. Hahaha.
I think it's more than the helicarrier, NYPinTA.
Nice. I like that we are post Ultron. It makes things easier.

Also I have a funny feeling that the cargo in the hold and Skye will not be friends.
A deathstone that can liquefy itself?
So Gonzales is doing exactly what everyone thought he would. Disappointing. And unfortunately, Coulson seems to be on board.

I wonder which show Skye will be on next season?
No, Gonzales. Just, no.
Avengers footage.
Just curious if the Inhumans asked SHIELD to allow them to index them, would they?
Seeds to Civil War?
Raina is a trouble maker & Gordon is an idiot.
Yeah. Looks like everything is foreshadowing Civil War.
And Gonzalez is a racist.
@NYPinTA I could not agree more. Trouble is Raina's middle name.
Seriously how does Gordon not get how Raina could use her gift to take control?
They were supposed to realize what he was doing when Tony himself didn't even realize? Mkay.
Oh Fitz...
But otherwise I'm really not feeling this episode so far.
Not sad to see Mack go, honestly.
Sunfire, it's mostly irking me.
Prejudice, they didn't exactly chose to be result from Kree experiment, and Phil didn't ask to be resurrected.

They might still save all their lives....
I'm finding it difficult to believe May would be so distrustful of Coulson, even though he kept secrets from her.
So much stuff, but the episode flow do feel a bit clunky.
Of course Gonzales has something up his sleeve.
How is that possible?!?
Arrgghh! Ward ! :)
What the hell????!!!
Def oh shit! WHERE IS MAY?
So... earlier May was still May, because she knew about May's painful past. But current May was an imposter. Since at least the meeting with Gonzales where she was quiet.
Just when you think Ward might not be so bad...
I never realized how fun it is to try to follow the episode by only reading the comments.

(My roommate has a friend over and they are watching Doctor Who, so I'll have to catch up on the episode tomorrow morning.)
I did not think they could ratchet it up again but they did.
Maybe the not feeling the episode has something to do with Age of Ultron. It's so big in scope, and little in it can give AOS the shot in the arm that CATWS did for it last season. AOU and AOS are on two different paths at the moment, but they are going to connect in Civil War.
Wait. If they were all on the same plane how does Gonzales not realize May is evil?
Don't kill Cal, show. :(
Two Mays, two planes, I thought.
Is Gonzales going to turn out not to suck?
Yes & NOOOO!
This is the episode where almost everyone is awful?
Well, Raina was right.
Damn, Raina was right
Wow... so Raina was on the level and Jiaying is the crazy megalomaniac. Damn.

I think next week, we're gonna see Mr. Hyde at last.
Isn't almost everyone in real life awful, Sunfire? Everybody has an ugly side somewhere.
Sunfire, I just now said "Don't kill Cal, show," to my husband. However, am now v. worried about everyone, oy.
Bobbi switched with Agent 33... that's her impersonating 33.

[ edited by AndrewCrossett on 2015-05-06 03:01 ]
For a show that seemed to start out clunky, I'm seeing an awful of lot of in-ter-jec-tions! :)
Huh? ETA: Oh!! And go Bobbi!

[ edited by NYPinTA on 2015-05-06 03:02 ]

Odd thought I just realized we've come full circle. We started off this season stealing a quinjet and here we are again.

[ edited by JDL on 2015-05-06 03:04 ]
Wow didn't see that coming.Great twist with Skye's mom.ALso loved the Age Of Ultron tie-in and reveal.Great episode tonight.
There are two masks? When did she switch? I missed that entirely.
You may be onto something, AndrewC.
Huh... I dunno. There would have to be a second mask.

I guess it won't be a Mockingbird spinoff after all. :-(

I could have sworn when "Bobbi" staggered off the jet and got shot, we could see her face shifting and morphing.

[ edited by AndrewCrossett on 2015-05-06 03:06 ]
Why don't we wait to see next week? I like the mask thing, though I hope it's something else we don't expect.
I think she was just grimacing when Ward shot her. She will be ok. Ward probably underestimates her.
FitzSimmons might have duped 33's mask and Bobbi had the duplicate.

In the final scene, Ward shoots her 2 or 3 times in the head, so whoever that is, is dead.
No, that was an icer. She's unconscious because of whatever his "closure" plan is.
I "think" they re-iced Bobbi. There was a distinctly blue flash to the shots, and Ward had just mentioned there was something he needed to show Agent 33 outside before they killed her ....

At least that's what I'm hoping
I will say I haven't been the biggest fan of the whole SHIELD vs SHIELD drama, and I've also found a lot of the characters behavior a little inconsistent of late, and really the plotting was pretty clunky tonight .....

.... but that last 10 minutes was damn good TV
Huh. I just spent that hour being pissed at everyone on my screen.

BTW, Ward kept shooting Bobbi with an Icer. It's a very distinctive gun.

[ edited by QingTing on 2015-05-06 03:33 ]
So two masks? I need to rewatch. I'd love to see if there was a hint of the switch(es).

I loved Gonzales calling out Stark as I see him as the ultimate villain in Ultron. I think that may have angered folks among other things. I'll miss Gonzales. I think I'm the only one.

I'm also very worried for Cal. The high five line was just so much fun. Please save Cal, show.

Everyone in my house stopped what they were doing and watched the whole ep. So I'm going with a solid well done.
It a very distinctive gun.

"This is the AK-47 assault rifle, the preferred weapon of your enemy, and it makes a very distinctive sound when fired at you, so remember it."

Sorry, Heartbreak Ridge flashback there.

Cal is going to Hyde out next week. I just know it.

[ edited by AndrewCrossett on 2015-05-06 03:29 ]
Heh. My Heartbreak Ridge reference was intended as a Leverage reference.
I have to admit I can't see why some of you are postulating two masks. You have May/Agent 33 and who else ?
I have to admit I can't see why some of you are postulating two masks. You have May/Agent 33 and who else ?

Bobbi, with a FitzSimmons duplicated mask. But the height differential between Bobbi and 33 probably makes this impossible. The Icer scenario is the more likely, and Ward wants to keep Bobbi alive for some reason. I guess the multiple shots are just because he likes shooting people with things.
I was with you, JDL. I have no idea why there's a Second Mask Theory. However, I also have no idea how 33 ended up on a quin with Bobbi, when it seems that Bobbi should've known that May was on a quin with Gonzales et al.
All I know is, both Mays were being jerks this episode.
Not sure there is an actual big theory about a second mask. It was someone's guess, which sounded ok to me. We all try to figure out whether there is a twist involved in a scene, and what it might be, but most of the guesses, right or wrong, fall by the wayside. Next week, we'll know what really happened in that fictitious world.

I enjoyed it, especially considering that it's a transition episode.
May has been pretty irritating of late. You think Coulson can take her in a fight?
leverage reference!

I was scared of a gonzalez and raina meeting going awry but damn.
I don't really blame Jiaying, all things considered but I feel she skipped a few steps. Cal's influence? Maybe if Raina had explained her vision instead of saying "jiaying's bad,put me in charge"?

I'm fairly certain that Medusa and Black Bolt would not approve,though. but maybe they're not part of their kingdom?
still too many unknowns. but hey they're officially inhumans now!

can't wait for the finale.
Saw someone tweet something to the effect of "if you ever wondered what it was that Jiayang saw in Cal, maybe you should think maybe it was what Cal saw in Jiayang"
Cal is at least honest, and noble. Jiaying manipulates people.
Raina not successfully manipulating people was nicely different.
The way I understood it was: Real May confessed to directly killing the girl to Coulson. 33 broke herself out and as "May" voted Gonzales to go to the Inhumans with herself and Bobbi going ahead as scouts. 33 blames Bobbi for what Hydra did to her so she captured her with Ward. The tag scene was Bobbi was waking up and Ward Iced her multiple times for (dramatic) effect.

The confusing thing is Real May went to Aferlife with Skye Simmons I think? She told Skye she hopes Jiaying could be everything Skye was hoping for.

In its own way Cal offering himself up to SHIELD to protect his family was a sweet scene. I appreciate Coulson actually trying to listen to people more, even if 33 bit them in the behind with it. I will miss Gonzales, he had legitimate points and was genuinely trying to be nice to the Inhumans. Apparently the deathstone* was just a piece of alien tech he had but didn't know what it was for so he was just keeping it away from others. I did like flipping expectations on Raina.

Skye's attachment to Cal and Mack leaving seem are both somewhat unbelievable/weak set-up, but we'll see where it goes. Still irritated Lance & Bobbi have made far more emotional progress in barley 3/4 of a season then FitzSimmons has in two seasons.

*Jiaying is the one who said it was a killer weapon and we know she's not trustworthy.This makes me think maybe it's not a deathstone but the Global Terrigen Bomb. She wants all her people activated now as she believes now that they are exposed she needs an army for the war she believes would have started anyway, so she's starting it on her terms.

No way Jiaying is in contact with the Royal Family. Black Bolt and Medusa would either meet with SHIELD or lead the attack themselves. And while not afraid of war, they'd not let themselves get drawn in as haphazardly as Jiaying has. Afterlife has got to be a seperate branch, or the remains left on Earth putting the rest out in space.

[ edited by Dusk on 2015-05-06 04:55 ]
I've been waiting for Jiayang to show her villainous side ever since we saw her return from the dead and I was not disappointed.
I am seriously starting to wonder if there even is a Royal Family.
So, Yiaying IS Magneto. I was sure the meeting was gonna go badly, but did not expect Yiaying to draw first blood. To think it could have been Coulson. So, terrigen bomb, Ultron. It seems the world can't catch a break. Poor Skye, she's gonna be torn.
@JDL_That's what the movie is probably going to be about. The Inhumans have a cosmic background as well as Earthen adventures in the comics. From the looks of things here, the RF is probably off in space somewhere, leaving Afterlife and Jiaying as the remains of the original Kree test subjects. If the rumors about Black Bolt's casting are true, look for some meta-humor when the King who doesn't speak has a scene with Groot.

[ edited by Dusk on 2015-05-06 05:33 ]
Yeah, if there is a royal family I'm sure they're saving it for the movie. They're way too powerful for a show that isn't primarily about superheroes. Black Bolt is an Avengers-level threat.

I'm getting kind of annoyed with these icers, to be honest. There should be some consequences to getting your ass shot. It turns the show into a glorified paintball game sometimes.
My problem is that I don't feel they are leaving much room for the Royals. An ancient leader is going to be really hard to ignore. If
there was another center of power within the Inhumans I really think it should have been mentioned or alluded to by now.
Pretty well established in the comics that there isn't one single unifying leadership base for the Inhumans. We could easily be seeing a faction that is not under the sway/protection of the royal family.
Pretty well established in the comics that there isn't one single unifying leadership base for the Inhumans. We could easily be seeing a faction that is not under the sway/protection of the royal family.

@IrrationaliTV I'm decades out of touch with comics so its certainly possible. But the Afterlife crew is acting like they are "it"
as far as decision making is concerned. I'm just not getting a feel for a place where the RF would make sense unless there was
a coup and the RF was displaced by the current ptb's.
I'm not familiar with the comics at all (which I think is preferable for MCU enjoyment to be honest), but I just skimmed the Inhumans Wikipedia page for a refresher on the MCU versions.

"They are revealed in "Who You Really Are" as part of an experiment by a rogue faction of the Kree to create genetically altered soldiers on various planets. The Inhumans are the only surviving specimens as the rogue Kree faction was killed by the Kree Emperor continuing the Terrigenesis with the remaining Diviners"

So it seems like the AoS version of the Inhumans are all that's left so far as they know. I expect things will continue to play out along roughly X-Men-ish lines on TV until the Inhumans movie, at which point the Royal Family will... umm... return from their long vacation or something.

Pretty cool episode - psyched for the finale :)
Cal is going to try to actually rip SHIELD to pieces to protect his Daisy. Oh this could be fun but scary as it can't end well for Cal.

Your Me. Hyde posts got me thinking @AndrewCrossett.
Those empty vials, and the smirk on Cal's face, told me all I need to know about the imminent arrival of The Other Guy.

I hope they have the SFX budget to do him justice.

I predict we see an all-out battle between both SHIELDs and the Inhumans next week. Skye will see Stony Gonzales, realize what her mother did, and side with Coulson's team, but not before the Gonzalez loyalists try to kill her and Cal Hydes out and saves her.

My prediction is that next week we'll see the deaths of Ward, Agent 33, Jiaying, possibly Cal (but more likely not), and possibly Agent Weaver and the Bearded Yes-Man. Then sometime next season, Calderon will show up gunning for Coulson and Skye.
When Skye sees stony Gonzales, why would she believe Jiaying started it? She doesn't trust Gonzales, why should she? He sent a team to put her down. Skye's gonna be pretty torn. I feel I have no idea how things are gonna play out, which means the writers are doing a pretty good job.
I'm hoping for the two masks thing because it would just make Bobbi (and SHIELD) finally thinking steps ahead. I hadn't noticed anything that said there was myself. I just like the idea of it now that it's been proposed. Plus, the way they ended the fight, then cut away to Bobbi in the field, it gives room for a switch and that Bobbi changed the mask on 33 to look like her and left her in the field to see what would happen. She is supposed to be a master spy after all and be able to tell when people are lying, etc. It'd be nice if they actually showed her being super spy-like and not be caught off guard so easily.
@JDL-It's totally possible Jiaying and Afterlife don't even know the RF exists. If the Terrigen Bomb theory is right, then not even Jiaying will be able to control all of the Inhumans on Earth. Then in a few years perhaps the RF shows up from space to figure out why their is another branch of Inhumans on the original planet the Kree created them on.
I don't believe there are two masks. What people saw on Bobbi's face was the blue veiny thing that happens when people get iced.

I really need to watch it again because I can't for the life of me reconcile that somehow Bobbi thinks May is copiloting with her on some side mission when in reality May is piloting the most critical mission at hand. I feel like I must have missed some context in which that makes sense.

[ edited by Penthos on 2015-05-06 16:34 ]
There's not much to reconcile. May approached Bobbi and told her "we're on a mission together." May is on the SHIELD council now, and Bobbi believes in the council. No reason for her to distrust May.
Random thoughts:
* The Kree have already visited — well, at least one of them — and discovered the presence of Inhumans on Earth (and he was surprised by it). That Kree was taken back to Asgard by Lady Sif, iirc. There's no way for us to know yet if the news has been passed on to anyone else (I think Sif's advice was to try and keep it quiet). But I think we can be pretty confident that the folks in Afterlife think of the Kree only in the context of ancient history.

* Since last week's ep, I assumed that there was a reason why Agent 33 was left behind with SHIELD. So Ward's plan worked somewhat to perfection: 33 used the mask to abduct Bobbi, and now Ward has a hostage and a Quinjet. It was Bobbi in the field, thinking she was out in the middle of nowhere and just taking a breather after the fight to get her bearings and think about what to do next... she would have had no reason to expect Ward was there with an icer. And Ward explicitly said that they needed to keep Bobbi alive before re-icing her. Three shots seems a bit excessive, given that the icer works by delivering a toxin. For the 2-masks theory to work, Bobbi et al. would have needed reason to believe that 33 (a) was up to something and (b) had already gotten out of her confinement — and then be willing to play along to see what happened. That's stretching things a bit too far for me.

* I have no idea why Jaiying thinks war with SHIELD is in her group's interest. Given the way that the transformation cannot really be predicted or prepared for (cf. Raina and young Gordon's immediate reactions), setting off a Terrigen bomb seems like the last thing she would want to do... unless she thinks that maybe Ultron had the right idea all along (and after some of the events IRL this past week, I'm thinking Ultron had some justification).

* We've got a long time before the Inhumans movie. That's another reason why major global conflict between Inhumans and humans seems unlikely. I'd guess that next week's finale might do some serious damage to Afterlife (which is conveniently isolated) and send the remaining Inhumans underground — possibly including Skye — but nothing that would majorly affect the movie side of things.

* I will miss EJO but not his character. That sort of blatant bigotry was unsettling enough, but what made it worse for me was that none of the other characters actually called him on it. He openly admitted that they didn't know what sort of threat they might be facing, yet his first recommendation was to go on the attack, simply because these people had powers. That's just foolish, and a character who had risen to his level should be beyond that (even factoring in his particular history). But the other characters should not have been so meekly accepting, much less agree to send him as their ambassador (and for reasons of objectivity?! please).

They should have sent May, given that she has some of Skye's trust and some of Gonzalez' suspicion. But then May would have been the one to end up stonefaced and crumbly. All of that is why this subplot smacks of lazy writing to me. The writers needed an inciting incident and a reasonably high-level but expendable character to sacrifice. Making Gonzales into that character was borderline ok but tamping down the other characters' reactions to him was lazy. Just my $0.02.

* Kyle M. continues to bring it every week.

* So May had never been completely honest with Coulson about the events in Bahrain. Really not sure why she continues to be angry with him.
So if the Inhumans are so paranoid about being discovered because they're vulnerable to a potential enemy like SHIELD... how does Jiaying intend to win this war she's just declared? Is she going to use those crystals to activate all the Potentials? If she does, won't that most likely leave her with a compound full of basket cases for quite some time? It's not like Inhumans are battle-ready the moment they come out of the cocoon. (Look at Little Gordon, for instance.)
That's the only option she thinks she has. She's already planning to leave Afterlife, she just needs her people see SHIELD destroy it to count on their loyalty. She believes war is inevitable so she's going to drastically increase her numbers any way she can and people changed like Raina will be shunned by regular society and drawn to her. This would also make Indexing every Inhuman impossible, effectively making the Inhumans something no organization could completely control.
JDL, Afterlife may act like they are the only Inhumans but I assume that characters in shows are oftentimes lying and/or lying to themselves. Also I think the Royal family moves Attilan around frequently. It could be in space. It sometimes hangs out on the dark side of the moon if I remember correctly. Jiaying doesn't have to know this.
tomg you have stated my feelings about Gonzalez's character and the others' reactions to him precisely. The idea that he was being the objective one, when he was so blatantly biased against powered people that he was willing to kill Skye before he ever knew her, and that Coulson and everyone else would accept that was way over the top. I agree - lazy writing.
@barboo Yes, that's my main problem with the show right now. I'm okay with shifting alliances, but when people are making decisions and choosing loyalties that don't make sense, I lose sense of what's going on and all the sudden "betrayals" just feel like plot devices. No way could May have seen Gonzales as the "objective" one, and choosing him over Coulson whom she has known for years?

And why is she distrustful of Coulson now? I replayed that argument between them four times and I'm still not understanding what her POV is.

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