"You people are so petty... and tiny."
May 19
2015
Part two of HitFix's in depth look at Age of Ultron.
In this second article Drew looks at some of the choices he thinks went astray.
TallMichaelJ
| The Avengers
| 18:04 CET
|
32 comments total
| tags: age of ultron
This thread has been closed for new comments.
You need to
log in to be able to post comments.
About
membership.
« Older
(SPOILER)
Agents of SHIELD: Where do we go f...
|
(SPOILER)
Discuss Buffy Season 10 #15.
Newer »
© 2002 - 2017 - WHEDONesque.com
(
e-mail)
Individual posts are copyright their respective authors
This is a non-profit, unofficial website, not affiliated with Mutant Enemy, Inc., 20th Century Fox, Warner Brothers or UPN.
I haven't seen anyone else mention this yet, but as someone who read most of the first 200 issues that had the Vision on the team... That was not the Vision in the movie. That was Adam Warlock... I'm not saying that was wrong (for the movie), and I understand why Joss did it (being a fan of Starlin's stories involving the Avengers and Thanos), but I was disappointed that all the parts I liked about the Vison's character were absent.
OneTeV | May 19, 19:02 CET
RobynH | May 19, 21:19 CET
Near the end of "Avengers", Nat has the scepter, preparing to make Tom kabobs with it. By the end of "Winter Soldier", Strucker and List have the Loki Pokey powering their very own Nazi Club Med. Was there ever an explanation of how the Glowstick Of Destiny (GOD Rod) got from Point A to Point B?
RobynH | May 19, 21:39 CET
Simon | May 19, 21:53 CET
Nebula1400 | May 19, 21:57 CET
Simon | May 19, 23:56 CET
I've seen it 3 times now and I wholeheartedly believe this is a truly great film. Its absolutely beautiful, well written, funny and amazingly well acted.
Sometimes movies can be like new songs; how many times have you heard a new song and thought, "eh, it's not bad but nothing spectacular". But then on repeated listens you start to appreciate the arrangement and end up LOVING the song. (Exactly how I got into The Glitch Mob)
I think that's the problem people have with AOU, they were expecting a catchy pop-song when instead they got a highly structured symphony who's beautiful movements and complex arrangements can only be truly appreciated after multiple listens.
But that's just my opinion.
[ edited by Penthos on 2015-05-20 14:12 ]
Penthos | May 20, 03:53 CET
First off, the part where he claims, "Banner's incredulous question to Stark is a fair one when he says, "Ultron can't tell the difference between destroying the world and saving it. Where do you think he learned it?"
Banner didn't say that to Stark, in fact, Banner didn't say it at all. Wanda said it to Cap. I'm not sure how he could miss that considering how important he thinks it is. Maybe he only saw it once. Which, IMO is not enough to fairly review the film.
Also, after implying that Stark and Ultron are Vision's only creators he makes this statement:
"It's not just because of the Infinity Gem that is embedded in the Vision's head, either. The Vision almost seems like an already existing consciousness that was just looking for a host. He arrives with such a complex personality that he is able to do something no other Avenger can, easily lifting Mjolnir at a key moment in the action."
He's missing perhaps a KEY ingredient of Vision's creation.... Vision was NOT just created by Stark and Ultron, but also by Banner and perhaps MOST importantly, he was actually brought to life by a Mjolnir wielding Thor. So it follows that Vision would have the character traits required to wield Mjolnir, because he is OF Mjolnir.
This movie is way more intelligent and thoughtful than its getting credit for. Which is pretty much par for the course with Joss's work.
[ edited by Penthos on 2015-05-20 15:00 ]
Penthos | May 20, 05:46 CET
I do honestly think the intelligence and thoughtfulness of the filn was shot in the knee a bit by what the filn had to be, setting up for, like, six future movies, and then there was the meddling from Marvel with rearranging the timeline of Banner-Widow (which I still think was the film's weakest point and could've been executed better through the Marvel franchise as a whole, which isn't necessarily Whedon's fault, but even within the film, but considering we know a lot of Widow's stuff was cut) and I still think The Line could've been better phrased. I think it's clear, but I don't ink it's clear enough or exclusionary enough of the other interpretation. But then it's unfair to judge a work by one line.
All in all, I do think it was a good movie, just I agree with the sentiment of the article at it could have been a lot better. (Especially since, even though I said it's unfair to judge by small lines, there were single moments of 'ugh, really?')
TenTonParasol | May 20, 06:20 CET
What I primarily enjoyed about this piece, and the first, was it highlighted just how many choices writers / directors have to make for any movie, never mind a tent pole blockbuster, and how any particular wrong turn can derail events. No wonder it's a stressful job, and why "development hell" is aptly named
TallMichaelJ | May 20, 07:19 CET
Nebula1400 | May 20, 09:15 CET
Well put Nebula!
Penthos | May 20, 09:25 CET
Trentaferd | May 20, 09:49 CET
Agent | May 20, 10:14 CET
I'm sure in the big picture everyone's pretty happy (A Billion dollars will do that) but some of the Marvel PR team can't be happy that so much attention was given to "what's up with joss" versus talking about the movie
TallMichaelJ | May 20, 11:32 CET
Penthos | May 20, 12:32 CET
TenTonParasol | May 20, 12:38 CET
ETA: I loved the movie and have seen it 3 times.
[ edited by KissingToast on 2015-05-20 21:46 ]
KissingToast | May 20, 12:45 CET
Maybe Joss will work with Marvel again the future. Its impossible to say. I just hopes he keeps working.
Anyway, back to the article. It's all fair criticism, but it also reads like criticism I've read before, here and there. So I'm not going to criticize, but I will try to draw a few lines from it.
Let me state this. Ultron is a great villain. People are critical of him, because they expected something else, The Joker Ultron or Earth's Mightiest Heroes Ultron. They got a human, flawed, teenage-like "murderbot" created by the merger of human tech and alien tech, voiced by James Spader with dialogue written by Joss. This was too Jossian for some people to handle, so they are replying by basically saying this was bad because I didn't expect it. Fine, I feel that way about other things. Ultron I loved.
Sure, the movie was a jumbled mess, if the expectation was a classical greek tragedy. It's not. It is a movie controlled by Marvel. They have a big plan, and Joss had to be faithful to it to it.
These big event films that bring together more super characters are going to be more common from now on, probably. CA: Civil War is a sign of that. Batman v Superman also. Infinity War is going to be a huge mess, like its comic origin.
To sort of conclude, a lot of people criticize something just because they hade false expectations and hopes. Let's compare this to Mad Max Fury Road. Nobody really expected anything, but an action flick. That film had a comparatively easy time of being loved.
Joss is Joss. Joss writes Jossian plots, stories, dialogues. Some people don't get that. Too bad for them.
So, to sum it up: False expectations lead to people thinking this movie is bad. No expectations, or expectations for a Joss film to seem like it was made by Joss, lead to a much fairer view of the film.
Just my two cents.
alber | May 20, 12:56 CET
The path to that result may not have been the one he expected to take, and perhaps it was a more arduous path than possible others. This set of articles has done a decent job of articulating not just what those obstacles might have been, but why the choices made matter to the narrative.
My $0.02 regarding this review (and many others I have read) is that the criticisms seem to boil down to "this is not the way I [the reviewer] would have done it". Whether for reasons of canon-compliance or -shipping or whatever, the choices made by the director/production did not validate the reviewer's pre-existing expectations. And in response, I want to direct their attention to the world's smallest violin...
tomg | May 20, 13:07 CET
I saw a good film, but I certainly didn't see something on the level of the first film cinematically. I do see the attempt at greatness and I actively wonder what was cut. But I also don't care if people loved it. Bully for them. I see a lot to love in the film. It IS a Joss film. I just also see a lot in terms of cinematic content that don't work as well as his first attempt. That's just the reality of where a lot of people see it.
azzers | May 20, 15:27 CET
Really, a lot of the more measured critics that I've seen haven't said the film is outright bad, it's just that they expected something better from Joss, just from a measure of performance of Joss' other works. I don't know, I feel like there has been just general disappointment because the first Avengers film was better, Joss' other films are better, and this one doesn't measure up. (The world's smallest violin comment also rubs me the wrong way a little. The more measured critics I've read weren't necessarily about canon compliance or shipping or anything, more like, "I expected something better. Because it is Joss." I do agree that this film spent so much time expositioning, and that it was overstuffed, and that certain elements weren't handled well probably because the film was cut for time.)
TenTonParasol | May 20, 17:09 CET
I do not read the comics either. I've seen the movie twice and greatly enjoyed it, for differing reasons, both times.
Avengers Assemble was an Act I movie; Age of Ultron was an Act II movie. The third act is yet to be written. In those terms, both movies have exceeded my expectations — but then, my expectations were pretty basic: an entertaining yarn, well-told.
tomg | May 20, 18:22 CET
barzai | May 20, 18:25 CET
Anyway, I feel excited for Ant-Man as I read somewhere that it will pick up some threads from Age of Ultron. And there were a lot of threads to other movies in AoU, that I believe were neccesary and well done. Not perfectly done, but this is groundbreaking for how to structure a movie series.
alber | May 21, 00:38 CET
barboo | May 21, 17:31 CET
The first Avengers had me clawing at the theater doors for them to open early just so I could see it again. Other movies? WHAT other movies? I went EVERY night because I had to. AoU was a RIDE, and I will see it again, but I will because I want to see more, feel more, glean more. Not because I have to see it again.
Willowy | May 21, 19:16 CET
shelled | May 21, 22:08 CET
BeSound | May 21, 23:24 CET
It's also definitely a grower. It appears that everyone who's seen it multiple times agrees on that. The Nat and Bruce scene hits me harder every time. It's lovely. That's true of many of the other emotional beats as well, like Quicksilver's fate, which for whatever reason didn't affect me so much the first time.
I'm very curious to see what was cut, and whether a longer version would be a serious improvement.
Trentaferd | May 22, 01:05 CET
What is CATWS?
ETA
Damn - just figured it out - Cap Am: The The Winter Soldier.
[ edited by redfern on 2015-05-22 18:27 ]
redfern | May 22, 09:25 CET
Nebula1400 | May 22, 16:48 CET