Used words like "spinoff" whoooohooo , hooray,, yeeeeaaaahhhh!!!!

ahem

I'd rather that than a short burst of Angel, cutting it down from 22 episodes to about 5 or 6 (ala Farscape) or a TV movie, just doesn't seem right. The annoying thing is that any spinoff probably wouldnt feature Angel, and that it's likely his journey will end for good on May 19th.(at least till the big screen movie (it'll happen))

Id watch any spinoff, but Id want it to star at least one well developed character (Spike, Fred/Illyria (that could be very interesting), Wesley, Faith, Giles, Xander (they could recreate some of the Angel/Spike atmosphere if they came up with a scenario where Spike and Xander were forced to fight together)) I really dont want them to just pick a slayer somewhere and start from scratch with her.

Ghost Spike | April 03, 03:06 CET

This s promising although a little dissapointing. i want ANGEL back i dont want a 6 episode run or a 2 hour movie. i dont want a spin off where Angel is just the sidekick i dont want the spike show....i want Angel.I feel as though its all for nothing, what are we fighting for? they dont care. They bump off Angel to make way for more reality and shows which rerun better....well dark shadows isnt a rerun or reality! sorry for the rant...needed to vent.this is really depressing me, my only comfort is im not alone.also if anyone can get a feed of this interview or a transcript i'd be eternally at your disposal :)

[ edited by willowzbitch on 2004-04-03 01:15 ]

willowzbitch | April 03, 03:14 CET

Illyria should have her own show. Seriously. Illyria and Wes, fighting evil together while Wesley teaches her to care about humans. Illyria has great story potential.

electricspacegirl | April 03, 03:39 CET

i think if there was a spin-off, Illyria and Wesley would definetely be at the top of the list

since joss wheodn told amy about the plans for the finale and the start of the next season sounds like they have big plans for her character

i would love that show... i would love it more than angel!

at least i hope

aapac | April 03, 03:58 CET

if theres gonna be a spinoff (of this spinoff) then i dont think it will feature angel. this was his show, and if they did something else then i wouldnt want it to be about him. if they did i would be angry since they didnt do anything like that with buffy. if anything, a spike show would be great. but i would much rather see just a tv movie or big screen film with a really good plot where they could bring everyone together................owell

norman | April 03, 06:37 CET

ooh, Illyria and Wesley, that does sound interesting.

forcorreo | April 03, 07:03 CET

Gotta say, it's real nice to hear Joss' appreciation for the fans' efforts and how he's still trying stuff. And as strange as it sounds, him saying the people on the set are still kinda sad too somehow does me a bit of good. Maybe I needed something like that after David's "Glad that's over" remarks.

And ya know, I recall some people on this board pretty much telling other people they were a tad silly to go through all the effort, and that it was all useless and delusional, so I also feel pretty good hearing Joss asking us to 'keep making noise'. Of course it's helpful with possible future Whedonverse projects. Some of us tried to point that out too, but hey.....

Anyway yeah ya gotta wonder what kind of spin-off he would be thinking about. Not so sure who would be leading man/gal material for networks or audiences. Spike is popular, but as a vamp with a soul might be too similar a concept as Angel. He should definitely be in it though. Wes or Gunn probably won't be able to carry a show in the network's eyes. Then of course there's Eliza and her *possible* 'Tru' cancellation....hmmm....

And I'll take anything. Short series, mini series, tv movie, spin off. I just want some continuation of the Buffy/Angelverse. Any continuation.

(Well, except, as ever for "Kennedy, Slayer in Training";-)

EdDantes | April 03, 07:40 CET

a show about kennedy, wow, that would be great LOL!

norman | April 03, 07:58 CET

I'm not of the "I'm-so-desperate-for-a-Buffyverse-series-that-I'll-take-anything" line of thinking. I want Angel to end properly. I wanna see what Joss had planned for the sixth (and most likely last) season. I'm feeling ready for the Buffyverse to be given a break though. Look what overexposure has done to Trek. We don't need the Buffyverse to be on TV for twenty years straight. Even if it's just given a couple years, just..."can we rest now?" And if it came down to a shortened season or TV movie for Angel, or a 22-episode season of a spin-off, I hope Joss and ME would push for Angel. It should be their priority to end it properly before beginning anything new, if there's even the slightest possibility to bring it back in some form on a screen. Otherwise I guess the Firefly film (and, hopefully, subsequent sequels...or even better, a series revival) and whatever other new projects Joss and co come up with will be ME's focus.

I do think there's potential for new interesting stories to be told with some of the Buffyverse characters, but I also really appreciate a series/franchise with a beginning, middle, and end...Just not keen on the likelihood that the characters and mythology will get spread so thin, that the franchise will run out of steam...

Kris | April 03, 08:03 CET

Ok, I don't hate kennedy but even I think a Kennedy spinoff would be boring.

electricspacegirl | April 03, 08:07 CET

The character of Wesley is rich enough to have a spin-off, and Alexis Denisof is certainly talented enough to be a lead actor. I think if there were a spin-off of AtS, Wesley would make the most sense, though I'm not sure the general public is interested enough in Alexis.

Invisible Green | April 03, 08:23 CET

Well, if Joss has a spin-off idea, I'm sure it's a good one. He hasn't disappointed me yet. I also think the idea of Wesley and Illyria sounds like an excellent idea. Obviously Angel wouldn't be on the spin-off, maybe an occasional guest star, and as much as I adore Spike, I don't think they will do a spin-off with him. He was a major character on Buffy and now a major character on Angel. I think they would be worried about over exposure for the character. When Angel spun off Buffy it was just initially two characters from Buffy and then Wesley was introduced later in the first season. I think it would be the same type of set up with just a couple of characters that are familiar and well liked.

There are just so many great characters that they could probably do several spin-offs, and it would be far different from Star Trek which usually just used the same formula for every show. Angel and Buffy were very different from each other.

I honestly think this is leading somewhere because Joss Whedon wouldn't be encouraging the fans to keep making noise unless he had something up his sleeve.

I'd also love anything with Giles, Willow, Xander or Andrew but I highly doubt there would ever be a spin-off with all of them. Giles and Willow were always great together and I still dream of a show based on the new Watchers Council.

As for a Kennedy spin-off... I don't think I could bring myself to even watch one episode of that.

Firefly Flanatic | April 03, 08:32 CET

Kris- I have some of the same concerns as you. I truly would rather not see new Buffy/Angel -verse stuff than see Buffy/Angel -verse stuff that had "run out of steam." I like good stories that are told with passion and sincerity. I'm not so in love with the superficial things that make Buffy and Angel what they are that I'll take anything that comes along wearing those superficial things, you know what I mean? And if Whedon and co's enthusiasms and passions are elsewhere (not saying they are right now but if they were...), then I would want them to follow those passions and not try to stick with something that's not alive to them anymore. Again, not saying the Buffy/Angel -verse is "not alive," but that I would be concerned if that 'verse was kept around just because it is that 'verse.

forcorreo | April 03, 08:49 CET

In my opinion, Joss Whedon doesn't strike me as someone who would do something he is not passionate about anymore. Buffy was still a huge success when he announced he wouldn't be back for another season and he made it quite clear that he wasn't interested in doing more than seven seasons when there was still a few seasons left. This is something that Tony Head has mentioned several times. He had a seven year story arc for Buffy from the beginning.

He was stunned when he got the news that Angel would not be renewed. He had already talked to Amy Acker about next season's story arc and seemed quite excited about it. He felt that Angel still had a lot to tell. So I don't think he'd make these kinds of statements if he didn't have something in the works that he is excited about. He's a very passionate person when it comes to his creations and he likes to follow through with them.

And unfortunately in TV Land there are tons of spin-offs that just suck and were only done to try and capitilize on the popularity of the original show. Joss had a definite plan for the tone and feel of Angel and made it a unique and great show in it's own right. I can't see him just doing a show to try and keep the myth alive. He is proud of these shows and loves the stories he and the other writers have shared with us and he'd bring that level of quality to any new show that could be on the horizon.

Firefly Flanatic | April 03, 09:02 CET

I would love AtS tv movies, a mini-series or shortened-run season. A spin-off... not sure how I feel about that right now. Wes and Illyria sounds intriguing, and god knows I've got buckets 'o' love in my heart for AD, but I think we'd find ourselves mourning such a series' demise after only a few episodes.

TV is just not hospitable for genre shows in general these days. I think an AtS TV movie or mini-series has a better chance of pulling in the viewers because by the time ME got it off the ground, the fandom would be so starved for Whedonversity that the numbers would go through the network roof (relatively speaking, since some roofs are higher than others). There'd also be ample time for build-up in the media aimed at cross-over interest from people still coming on board the AtS train from Fox's reruns. (This assumes the WB buys a clue and figures out it actually has to market and promote such a project in order to get people to tune in, which ... *sigh*.)

A shortened-run season would be undeniably great for the fans as far as closure is concerned, but I doubt it would improve much on AtS's current ratings -- and that's what the WB suits are going to be concerned with. How can they use 'Angel' in another form more effectively than they're using it now? If Joss is actually pitching a spin-off, it must be something shockingly different from what we've already seen on 'Angel' or I don't think the WB would even be looking at it.

I wouldn't want a spin-off that exists for the sake of existing. However, I agree with blwessels -- Joss cares deeply, passionately, crazily about what he's doing, or he wouldn't be doing it. He's not going to waste his limited time on earth making something crappy, if he can help it. I trust him and his stable of writerly cohorts. At this point, any spark of hope is preferable to the unrelieved darkness of no Whedonverse on TV in the foreseeable future.

[ edited by Wiseblood on 2004-04-03 09:43 ]

Wiseblood | April 03, 11:42 CET

I agree with Blwessels. The Star Trek comparison doesn't really work. Basically all spinoffs from that had the same setup with the same types of characters doing the same type of things. (Noble captain, logical advisor that is either machine or vulcan, ship through space. Klingons. Romulans.)

On the surface, Angel and Buffy could have easily turned out that way but they kept the shows quite different in storylines and themes and situations.

And really do we have so little faith in Joss? Why do so many assume that if there's a new spin-off it will 'tire out' the Whedonverse? If Joss does a spinoff he's not going to make it a retread of Angel or Buffy. It would have a new angle. And frankly the way he left 'Buffy' gave the 'verse a whole new slew of story possibilities. With Angel, he was clearly not done yet. I see no evidence of 'tiredness' like with Star Trek. I also fail to see evidence of the Bufyverse not being alive with Joss.

He's going to direct Firefly, but that doesn't mean the Buffyverse is dead to him. Like Blwessels says, he had all kinds of plans for Angel S6 already.

EdDantes | April 03, 12:03 CET

There's a link to a transcript now. Loved this bit:

Bean: Joss, it's gotta be so crazy for you to wake up in a world where "Yes, Dear" is on the air every week and you're having trouble keeping "Angel" going.

Joss: Um, you know, uh, you know, uh, y-- did you know who's president?

Bean: Yeah.

Joss: World's crazy, you know.

Oh BTW EdDantes: Star Trek Deep Space Nine didn't follow that format. But you're right repetetiveness is what is distroying Star Trek and that hasn't been a problem with the Buffyverse so far.

Tristan | April 03, 12:49 CET

Thanks for that link Oh Goodie. Cool to read the entire transcript. Always a pleasure to hear the man speak. For one thing he's always funny, even when he's said. "You know who's president" hehehe. Dixie Chicks poster anyone?

EdDantes | April 03, 14:41 CET

"You know who's president?" Hee hee hee!

I'm confident that if there is a spinoff it'll be great. So far Joss hasn't gone the tired old crap route and I don't forsee him doing so.

phlebotinin | April 03, 17:17 CET

Anyone who thinks the time and money spent by the fans who campaigned for Angel were wasted or that their efforts went unappreciated should read that transcript and be enlightened.

prufrock | April 03, 17:52 CET

I want a Spike Spin off.

twiggy | April 03, 20:27 CET

I agree prufrock. After some of the negative comments regarding the delusional efforts of those attempting to save Angel, it's nice to hear Joss encourage us all to keep making noise.

I'm not sure what I'm hoping for right now, except a real sense of closure from Angel. I do have faith in Joss & Co., but somehow I don't think I'm going to get the closure I'm looking for. And if I don't, I'm not going to blame the writers, but I'll blame the WB for cancelling the show on such short notice. Can they really wrap up the entire series in the remaining 5 or 6 episodes? I don't think so, but I hope to be proven wrong.

As for another spinoff...I'd definitely watch it, but I don't know how excited I'd be about it. I really think a Buffy spinoff would be much more likely than an Angel one. The network doesn't even want Angel as it is now, so why would they take a spinoff that was headlined by any of it's co-stars? As much as I'd love to see a wacky sitcom featuring Wesley & Illyria, I don't think anyone would pick it up.

MindPieces | April 03, 20:30 CET

As much as I'd love to see a wacky sitcom featuring Wesley & Illyria

Ha! You've been reading my journal, haven't you, MindPieces? ;)

I just don't want this universe to die. That's all. I'd watch anything ME produces. I trust them. I've wanted a Giles spinoff, a Willow spinoff, a Faith spinoff, and now I want a Wesley/Illyria spinoff. I want more Wes. That character is so compelling and Denisof is an actor I want to keep watching.

But whatever happens, I have faith. I am so glad Joss ain't done with the 'verse. I just hope they can find a better network for the next show. I can't imagine they would want to work with the WB after all their problems with them. That's assuming they'd have a choice in the matter.

electricspacegirl | April 03, 20:44 CET

Well, seeing he made a point of capitilism being the big key that turned the big lockdown to right side up--I'm guessing.

Spike.

The underexplored themes and relationships with both BTVS characters and ATS characters could lead to many, many guest appearances not to mention picking up the thread from BTVS7--which a whole lot of fans would love to see.

Plus--it seems, James Marsters is still into it. Still wants to do it, as long as the metaphor is handled responsibly. And that has to be a bargaining plus.

I would LOVE to see his story placed at the center. The themes of free will choice in a nation practicing mind control (Iraq) on the populace. The theme of letting love transform you--being changed is part of a guys biggest fear. Oh yeah they could wax on for years and still not go near the themes in Angel. (the other souled vamp)

Plus, what if...what if he's not a vamp anymore? Now Spike/William struggling with being a human again would be scary and throwdown watchable.

Can you count the challenges? Change the hair. Almost every fanfic I've read post Chosen has Spike being changed in a major way and is testamony to the huge interest in such a transformation. One can't go through what he did and not be.

I would love to see him get rid of THAT COAT. He shouldn't be a cartoon anymore. Why does he need it? Why would post 'Chosen' Spike even want it? There could be a whole ep where he ships it off to Wood.

His spin off could be about facing CHANGE. Being CHANGED.
It could be about a guy dealing with great changes.
It may scare some fans--but that's the real point of Spike. He has always made himself adaptable to changing circumstance.

How did Giles describe him way back when? Resiliant.

I would love it.

But I don't think they should do another series on the WB.
BTVS was liberated on UPN. Find a network that will stand behind a creative effort.

Oh Yeah, a Spike show has the complicated possibilities of a new Twin Peaks. In couragous hands, that is.

I would love it. I would watch it.

BforBeth | April 03, 21:27 CET

If there was a Spike spinoff, I would so want them to change his hair. My favorite Spike 'do is in "Lessons" where it's longish and curly and the color is growing out...yummy. I thought he looked way sexier with a tight black t-shirt, hair growing out, no coat.

Plus, if they continue to bleach it, it's just going to start falling out! Give me NewSpike and yeah, he'll be my new heart throb.

electricspacegirl | April 03, 21:38 CET

Amen on the Spike spinoff. Put Spike at the center of the plot and add several familiar faces and some new ones and go for it. The whole mass Slayer thing with all the Potentials and the rebuilding of the Watchers Council...could be great themes. Plus the new dynamics of Illyria/Spike/Wes could be real interesting. Ahhh who am I kidding...I just WANT SPIKE.

kathylovesspike | April 03, 21:57 CET

I also agree that Spike is deserving of a spin-off and not just because I think he's gorgeous!(Though it doesn't hurt). He's one of the richest characters in the Buffyverse, and because he was never the main character, his story got some short shrift. I know a lot of people felt he had too much screen time in Buffy AND AtS, but really, his character has so much potential, he needs his own show. And James could make that successful, I think. Because I bet even Spike haters would watch it, just to have some connection to the 'verse.

Rogue Slayer | April 03, 23:04 CET

Do I think James Marsters is talented enough to carry a whole show? Definitely! Do I think Joss Whedon could come up with a whole series surrounding Spike and his life? Definitely!! Do I think a network would buy it? No, unfortunately and here's why. No matter how they phrased it, it would sound too much like Angel's story. A vampire with a soul who wants to redeem himself.

But if there is a spin-off, I hope there is a place in it for Spike. Even if it isn't as a regular but more of a semi-regular like he was initially on Buffy. Here's one time where I totally would be glad if I was wrong and they did have a Spike spin-off but I honestly don't think it is possible just because there are just too many similarities to Angel.

Oh and I also would love him to lose the coat and go back to that hairstyle he had in lessons. He was so yummy looking like that and it really brought out his wonderful eyes. I think they've been over doing the "Spike" look on Angel by constantly having him in that coat. Even when he reclaimed it on Buffy he didn't have it on constantly and James Marsters has too great a body to hide it under that coat.

Firefly Flanatic | April 04, 00:39 CET

Spike seems the obvious choice for a Buffyverse spin-off, especially since Alyson Hannigan is on record as being very wary of doing a Willow-based series (my personal dream would be Spike and Willow, but let that pass). But what concerns me is the widespread amnesia about the Ripper series which was agreed with the BBC two years ago. There *is* a Buffyverse spin-off,and the BBC have been waiting for it a long, long time. As much as I admire Joss he seems to have simply walked away from the Ripper project as soon as Firefly was picked up by Fox. He's rarely questioned about Ripper and on those rare occasions he effectively dodges the question. So, okay, as Joss suggests, I'll make some noise: "JOSS! WHAT HAPPENED TO RIPPER?"

whirligig | April 04, 01:51 CET

I was not aware that the BBC had agreed to production of Ripper..I thought that was the only thing holding things up? I know ASH was always very excited in interviews concerning the prospect of Ripper so what happened? Has Firefly quashed the development and creation of other Buffyverse shows?

Simpleba | April 04, 04:53 CET

A Spike spin-off would be heaven - I've been so impressed with James Marsters and his excellent work.

But I'd be happy with any spin-off idea, even if it had completely brand new characters, as long as the same writers are involved. That way we'd have an awesome Joss show with quality writing, and there would presumably be opportunities for old Buffyverse members to appear - something to always look forward to.

irish | April 04, 04:57 CET

Yep, last I heard, the BBC still want Ripper (that was pre-Doctor Who though). I think what's stopping it is that there has to be a time when Joss is free (that might actually happen this year, though I bet he wishes his show hadn't had to die in order for him to get some time off), and when Anthony is free.

So if potential spin-off is not till the 05/06 season, (hope it's Spike, I think a network would pick that up, even the WB aren't stupid enough to believe it'd be the same show as Angel, similar premise, yes, but it'd be completely different) maybe something might actually happen with Ripper. Joss has always seemed like a workaholic, he's going to be desperate for a project after "Serenity" wraps!

Ghost Spike | April 04, 05:17 CET

Thanks for replying to Simpleba, Ghost Spike. I was just about to give a similar reply but you beat me to the draw!

Simpleba, it's definitely true that the BBC (very strong supporters of Buffy - much more so than any American network) are waiting - and waiting - and waiting for Joss to deliver the scripts he promised, but so far there's been nothing but silence from ME on the subject. At a London convention a couple years back Joss was fired up with enthusiasm for the Ripper series and grateful for the BBC's positive response. ASH himself later said that Jane Root, the head of BBC 2, was keen on going ahead with Ripper but that Joss had put Ripper "on the back-burner" once Firefly was taken up. At that time Joss had three shows on the go, as ASH pointed out. Fair enough. But now there's just one show on TV, and that's coming to an end. And yet still no-one mentions Ripper.

The BBC is not going to wait forever. At first Joss promised a miniseries, then changed it to a one-off TV movie, then silence. As I said in my comments, I'm a great admirer of Joss but when it comes to Ripper I have the uneasy feeling that he just lost interest in the project and won't come clean about it. I'd love to be wrong about that. (Joss - please prove me wrong!)

btw Ghost Spike, you make a fair point about Doctor Who - it may prejudice Ripper's chances, despite Ripper belonging more to the M.R. James eerie supernatural genre (a paraphrase of Joss's words at the London convention). But then, Doctor Who will probably be a letdown: they've picked a head writer with no real understanding of science fiction, a dull, humorless actor as the Doctor (bring back Tom Baker, I say!) and now they appear set to choose an ex-pop starlet as a companion. Not too promising!

whirligig | April 04, 05:52 CET

"hope it's Spike, I think a network would pick that up, even the WB aren't stupid enough to believe it'd be the same show as Angel, similar premise, yes, but it'd be completely different"

Man, I do find it amazing you still manage to give the WB the benefit of the doubt in this! I wish I could share that optimism, but.....too many scars;-)

Oh and to my shame, as big a fantasy/SF/comic/TV/movie geek as I am, I have never seen a single Doctor Who ep of any actor. I was suprised they didn't go for Tony though. Several polls had him picked as a fan favorite. Did he turn it down perhaps?

EdDantes | April 04, 14:09 CET