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"What'd you all order a dead guy for?"
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September 29 2015

(SPOILER) Discuss Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 3x01 "Laws of Nature". Welcome to Season 3! The premiere was written by Maurissa Tancharoen and Jed Whedon. It was directed by Vincent Misiano.

Welcome back, everyone!
Armed and ready. OK. I have arms. With hands on them to type. Rewatching the last episode of Agent Carter while waiting.
Hi everyone! Kermit is rather diabolical when it comes to protecting his show isn't he?
I can't watch that show. It's destroyed the Muppets.
Really? It's "adult" humor isn't that bad, it's a fresher take and The Muppets were originally meant for adults. One of they're early episodes was called "Sex & Violence" after all.
It's not very funny. It also lacks Jim Henson's spirit.
Tumbrils harnessed, nails bitten, didn't watch any Muppets ... Missed you all!
Also, it's going to lose a lot of potential viewers. They took what could have been a great show for families to watch together, and stole the innocence of the show that played to kids.

OK... AOS is on!
Missed you, too, javelina (as well as Dusk, Sunfire, and anyone else who shows up)!
So much for the fish oil being harmless.
Fish Oil either turning people into Inhumans, or simply killing them. Scary.
I'm so glad I'm a vegan.
Why are they dissecting them? I hate her already.
Did they get a budget increase this season? They have a mini-helicarrier.
Heart extracted. So not HYDRA, but ... ?
No more kinda like Serenity bus.
So 5 Fish Oil incidents, 5 dissections. Uh-Oh.
I do miss the old Bus.
So Constance Zimmer character is the new Reed Diamond character from last season.
Well they got a good start on the evil.
The old Bus seemed like it was SHIELD's discards from the 1960's.
A gay Inhuman. That's progress.
So 5 Fish Oil incidents, 5 dissections. Uh-Oh.

And how many Stone People?
So Phil in street clothes is a thing now...
A lot of alias-es. Wonder if we're looking at another major marvel character.
And we are still feeling the after effects of Age of Ultron.
I'm sure she'd prefer mystery woman. :D
I am so confused - why all the crumbly people next to the fish oil bottle?
Fitz grew Swagger!
There are crumbly people next to the fish oil bottle? I think they explained away why it's not killing people.
Yeah, I thought Bobbi said the fish oil was harmless to normal humans.
Fitz grew Swagger

Good call. In any event I like it.
I can't watch the episode. My satellite won't pick up the channel for some reason. This really blows.
The rain keeps threatening my satellite. I'm going to plotz if it goes.

So far, so good. (The episode, not my cable.) Loving the mocking of Coulson by Hunter and Mack. Fitz. The team working together. Stuff.

It's back..
There were def. crumbly people (or the remains of at least one) next to the fish oil bottle. Maybe it was this guy's shell?

[ edited by javelina on 2015-09-30 02:26 ]
Fitz has always had swagger. :)
Mack is a horrible teddy bear.
@NYPinTA - You aren't kidding!
Love how Hunter is just giving Coulson the stink eye. Haha. (But I hope they figured that would happen...)
Very little knocks out my cable. I'll be glued to my couch till I die.
We haven't had rain in weeks! But all of sudden tonight, it's pouring. I'm blaming the Blood Moon Super Moon thing.
That was SUCH a Coulson move that I hope to goodness that at least Bobbi thought of back-up!
They wanted to be captured.
OK, comic book people, who/what is THAT?!
Holy hell Lash!
Is that Kree-Pete? In his natural form or something?
Lash info.

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-09-30 02:43 ]
Wow they stuffed this episode with a lot of interesting events.
Phooey. I like saying, "Kree-Pete".
Holy! That was nifty.
It is well paced, JDL.
Was that Fitz's invention? On the Metro.
Yay, Time Warner just took a dump and now my cable is out with 15 mins to go. Someone is getting an angry phone call. :/
DAmmmmmit! Satellite just went out. It's hardly raining!! What happened?
I HATE YOU RAIN. We used to be friends. Jerk.
Well, we can suffer together.
Ooh... Civil War talk!
In this age none of should have to suffer. *cries* :/
Things will probably be a lot worse before they get better if they ever do, this will probably tie into Civil War.
Coulson has always had faith in Fitz before. >:(
Ok maybe this is a different Fitz and Coulson is right.
Oh Fitz, breaking our hearts again.
Why are my eyes getting misty.... Fitz....
Portal to another galaxy...
Oh my god. Simmons.
Where is Simmons?
My guess is somewhere else.
There's your Guardians of the Galaxy cross over ;)
One of the nine realms.
*cries into non working cable box*
Numfar & Nebula - thank you for the Lash info!

And as for Simmons and Fitz - my poor babies.
Yep, chrisobrien. That's what I think.
Does it rerun later in the week?
PS to everybody with bad cable, I am SO sorry! Hulu? Maybe buy on Google Play?
Wow Ian really killed in that scene!

Simmons on the other side of the universe! Maybe it's Hala.

Rosalind isn't someone they can fight but she's not a friend either.

Oh and those "legs" in the opening scene was probably Joey's cocoon.
*cries into non working cable box*

Well you can get it off of Amazon later for $2.
Hulu will be a week delayed even on premium.

[ edited by JDL on 2015-09-30 03:05 ]
Yes. I do feel bad for you. The show was great!
Great premiere tonight.This definitely felt like CIvil War setup.Also cool nods to Age Of Ultron and Ant Man.

The Simmons tease was a real surprise.I didn't expect that she would be another planet or realmn.
Obviously, the ratings were so good, it knocked out ABC.
If I had to guess I'd say Simmons is on Hala, the Kree homeworld.
Dusk - You must be right about the cocoon but how did he manage get out and leave the legs intact?
Whoo-hoo! She is alive! I was so scared it was going to be another Fred incident.
Google Play will have it tomorrow, probably for about $1.99.

[ edited by javelina on 2015-09-30 03:11 ]
I thought it might be a portal to another galaxy, Buffyfantic. It seemed like a logical way to open up the show to more alien invasion, and tie-ins to other movies.
javelina-Maybe he melted the upper half but fell out in shock before he meleted the lower part. *shrug*
Dusk - Maybe! The visuals totally fooled me into thinking someone had perished.
javelina-Me too for a second. I thought it was another Tripp Crumbling.
So - for those of us who were fortunate enough to have working televisions - I thought that was a really solid episode, yes? No Ward, no May, some new players/villains (pretty lady may sound reasonable but she's dissecting, ugh*). Daisy and Mack stepping up, Lance and Bobbi having a moment, imperturbable Coulson (my favorite Coulson), Fitz doing us all in, Jemma doing us all in again, in a different world ... What wasn't to love? (I'm still not sure about the actor who's playing Lincoln, or maybe it's the way he's written, and I get no vibe one way or another from poor Joey yet.)

* Edit - I stand corrected, see below.

[ edited by javelina on 2015-09-30 03:33 ]
Oh crap I didn't even notice May was missing. I shall do the dance of shame.
I really liked it. Can't wait to watch it when there's nobody to talk to (so I can pick up on things I missed)! :D

Iain De Caestecker is such a powerful actor!

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-09-30 03:27 ]
Rosalind isn't dissecting for evil, those were corpses dropped by Lash and she's trying to figure out what the hell killed them. If she's with the President then Coulson cannot topple her or actively work against her unless he wants to be a fugitive again.

The episode was good, possibly the strongest of the show for emotion of character and totally for action. Joey is sympathetic enough. Not sure on Lincoln either.

[ edited by Dusk on 2015-09-30 03:28 ]

[ edited by Dusk on 2015-09-30 03:33 ]
Yeah. That became apparent after she mentioned the bodies they kept finding, and especially after Lash showed up.
Ah, thank you, Dusk and Nebula! I missed a step there, obvs.

There was a LOT going on. Plus javelina_kid was watching with me, for the first time, and he had a lot of questions, so like Nebula I can't wait to see it again, alone. (Also like Nebula, I agree that Iain De Caestecker was yet again MVP, even though he wasn't on screen that much tonight.)
Fortunately, the kids are all grown, but my pets kept pestering me during the show. My cat was on my keyboard. My dog was barking, and my birds kept squawking. So I'll rewatch after everyone is asleep!
javelina_kid, bless him, is way too knowing, and kept distracting me during Fitz's breakdown by saying things like "Elizabeth Henstridge is in the cast for this season, so we know she'll be back, right? I looked at the Marvel Wikia."

Oh! Not cool, javelina_kid!
Did anyone see the name of the actor who played the president?
William Sadler is who I believe played the President.He also played The President in Iron Man 3.

[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2015-09-30 03:52 ]
Ah, after my own heart that javelina_kid! I don't think we mentioned Bobbi and Hunter are back together and he's going solo for Ward hunting.
Good episode - it looks like with extended cast we'll have a bunch of storylines brewing right away:

Team Coulson vs. Alien Agency
Big Bad Inhuman vs. Team Coulson
Bobbi n' Hunter vs. Team Hydra
FitzQuest for Simmons

Also worth noting - Iain De Caestecker is a hell of an actor and really stands out - another great performance
Just came by to say: Quor'toth.
Or maybe Pylea, and Gemma either becomes a princess, or comes back as Fred.
And also a time limit, 17 months and 21 days before the Terrigen Fish goes global.
May!! Come back!!

Fitz's final scene almost had me in tears. That was some fantastic acting by Iain.

Anyone else notice the new title card? It had weird blue stuff in the background.

Lots of nice callbacks. References to AOU, Antman, the Iron Man 3 president, and Coulson was drinking out of the grumpy cat mug.

It looked like Simmons was afraid of bleeding so I'm thinking that whatever planet she's on, she has some sort of big scary animals after her. I'm assuming she won't return until sweeps since that is always when characters
And in a two degrees of the Whedonverse piece of casting, Constance Zimmer is one of the leads on Marti Noxon's show "UnReal."
Maybe the big obelisk is the T.A.R.D.I.S. in a previous or future form.
To borrow the title of this site, this episode was delightfully whedonesque!
(Bad-ass girl with superpowers, fighting a big guy in a monster suit, female scientist trapped in an alien dimension, narrative twists mid episode and some serious emotional scenes! Plus the quips.)
So, continuing my tradition of wild speculation, my thoughts on what is going to spin out from this episode and continue through the season:

Lash is a disciple of Jiaying. In the comics, Lash believes that only select dormants are worthy of becoming Inhumans, and where have we heard that sentiment before? So, in addition to hunting down "unworthy" Inhumans, he's gonna be on a vengeance kick. Wouldn't it be great if he decides to go after Cal, thus bringing Kyle MacLachlan back to the show for a while?

SHIELD and ACTU are going to become uneasy antagonist allies, like Col. Talbot. Until the other shoe drops. Like, say . . . whatever ultimately triggers the Civil War.

Jemma is in the Negative Zone. The Monolith is a Kree artifact, and in the comics, there is a famous Kree warrior who is trapped in the Negative Zone, but can switch places when a human uses the "Nega-Bands," a Kree artifact that provides a temporary gateway to the Negative Zone. That warrior? Captain Marvel. Who is, of course, getting a movie in 2018. Now, the modern Captain Marvel who is being used by the MCU, Carol Danvers, doesn't use Nega-Bands or switch places, but with the MCU's habit of combining aspects of multiple characters into one, they could very well combine the "switching places" mechanic onto the Carol Danvers character for the movie. Thus, this could be an early setup/explanation/introduction. The Monolith is a primitive form of the Nega-Bands, or perhaps the gateway the Kree use to sentence people to the Negative Zone. This could further tie into Civil War, since during the conflict in the comics, super powered criminals were sentenced to the Negative Zone as well, and the Monolith could be how they do it in the MCU. And finally, the Negative Zone is where the Guardians of the Galaxy ultimately picked up one of their B-Team members, Jack Flag. So, to recap, Jemma could be a tie-in to Civil War, Captain Marvel, AND Guardians of the Galaxy.

So that's my epileptic trees. Feel free to counter-speculate!

- J
The Negative Zone is not available. It belongs to Fox.
I think that's the first time I've seen the show trend worldwide hours after it's aired. Also nice continuity from Iron Man 3.
@JDL: Ok, in rebuttal to that:

- Last I checked, that wasn't a confirmed "absolutely no go" for MCU. Yes, it is speculated that "Planet Zero" in Fant4stic was in the Negative Zone, and in the comics, it was discovered by Reed Richards. On the flip side, it was never officially named as such in the movie, and given the ABYSMAL performance of the flick, it may never be so identified in any sequel, since a sequel is much less likely to happen.

- Further, I have not come across a single official word on the subject, yea OR nay, regarding who holds the rights or how fluid or gray-area they are. Please show me an exec quote or a contract.

- Given Disney/Marvel's history of aggressive negotiating tactics, and in light of the aforementioned horrible box office of Fant4stic, they could well be pressuring Fox into giving up the rights to at least SOME of the FF properties, if not the whole shebang.

- Fourth, one word: Quicksilver. Could have dual ownership.

- And lastly, even if they can't use the name, Disney will happily dance around the issue or change the name or simply never explicitly name it anything at all, just "The Zone" or "The Planet" or whatever. Just like they did with the Cosmic Cube, or using the Chitauri and the Sakaarans instead of the Skrulls and the Badoon. So saying "it's not the Negative Zone" is a semantic argument. It very well could be an exact analog, different in name only. Ergo, it's the Negative Zone.

Of course, the whole Negative Zone idea is just pure speculation to begin with, but saying it's impossible because of the film rights issue? Little thing like that wouldn't stop the writers at all if that was the direction they wanted to go.
After some time on IMDb I was reminded that Constance Zimmer was on Joan of Arcadia, which starred Amber Tamblyn who played Janice in the Buffy Season 6 episode "All the Way". This game is fun.
Still haven't seen the full episode. Loved what I saw. But as I was getting ready this morning I had this thought: Coulson and Hunter's escape would have impressed me more if they hadn't basically blown up one car of the train.
They blew up a car of the train?
Well, they landed one of their rocket-powered rooms in it, which basically destroyed it. At least I think that's what happened.

Nobody has yet mentioned my favorite line from the episode, which was Mack's "I need a bigger gun. Or my axe. Or maybe a shotgun-axe combination of some sort".
Hah, that line delivery of Mack's was fantastic ! I'm glad they've kept the character.

How did they accurately land that SHIELD-box-room into a MOVING subway car that was underground ? Fine, TV-science/advanced SHIELD tech with pinpoint accuracy and enough force, but still...looked/seemed ridiculous. Does it account for the possibility of pedestrians or folks in vehicles being in the way of it and steer around them during its descent ? Otherwise, Coulson and Hunter might've just killed some folks in order to escape a situation they had pretty much determined was non-life-threatening to the both of them.

[ edited by Kris on 2015-09-30 16:13 ]
I enjoyed the episode, but doesn't Fitz have brain damage? Isn't that sort of thing permanent? (That's rhetorical; yes, yes it is.) It's very frustrating the way that was just completely dropped. I'm comfortable with the idea of him continuing to relearn to compensate for what we were told was a catastrophic injury, but given what a big part it was of his character arc last season, to not acknowledge it all just seems sort of insulting to me as a viewer somehow.

[ edited by Agent on 2015-09-30 16:30 ]
Sunfire said:
"A gay Inhuman. That's progress."

HUGE. Thanks, Jed and Maurissa. Yeah, there's a ton more representation on TV now than there used to be, but non-straight characters (especially male ones) are still sorely lacking on action and superhero shows. It wasn't very-special-episode-like in the least, Bobbi just mentioned his ex-boyfriend and it came off natural and un-forced (and played in beautifully to yet another bit of "other-ness" piled on top of him now that he's an Inhuman).

Not a single lasting, "out" male character on any Whedon series, it's about damn time (Lorne/The Host was played ambiguously on Angel, so I can't really count him). I was surprised when we didn't get one on Dollhouse.

If Joey is a throwaway Inhuman that the show's invented, fine, I'll take what I can get, but it makes him just another Larry from Buffy if he's gone or killed in a few episodes (Larry was arguably more significant an inclusion as it stands right now, even if only ever really played for laughs). Were it not for the current bloat of the main cast (10 main characters is a bit much, although yes, I know Firefly had 9), would love to have him around long-term, if his powers can be controlled like Skye's and made useful to missions. The actor is easy on the eyes and gave a good performance. And if they wanna do more pairings (I'm fine with just Bobbi/Hunter, May/Andrew, and Fitz/Simmons, but if they REALLY wanna include more on the show), Mack's sexuality hasn't been determined yet.

I know I'm not the only one who saw Mack's adorable, genuine buddy-buddy thing with Fitz last season as a developing one-sided attraction (Fitz either totally straight or too in love with Jemma to notice or be interested), it's all there to be easily interpreted as such on screen with zero to contradict it. Wishful thinking, though--probably.

It would be a good pairing if they wanna play on Mack's mistrust of some powered people (or maybe his beef was only with Lincoln and Jiaying's group)...

A+ season premiere, IMO...everything about it was perfect.

Agent, I noticed the lack of Fitz's tics too and figured it was either an oversight (in which case, not-so-perfect-premiere, then), or something we're going to get an explanation for in a future ep. I kept waiting for a mention of some drug therapy he was on or a revolutionary new treatment...

So much going on.

[ edited by Kris on 2015-09-30 16:43 ]
I totally saw Joey as a romantic prospect for Mack, immediately-- they set them up in a lot of scenes together and to be spending more time together going doesn't seem impossible to me. Fingers crossed!

As always, thank you so much comics-knowledgeable people for all the great info and headcanons.

and @agent so much yes to the Fitz brain injury thing. Brain damage is not irreversible, people can and do make huge improvements-- but not that huge or ANYTHING LIKE that fast! Oh well. That's TV medicine for you-- similar to real life but greatly exaggerated and a hell of a lot easier, but given the emphasis on it as a plot point so recently, it really does seem like a misstep. It would have been so easy to have him just have some difficulty at the end when he was under the most emotional stress-- it would have really added to him being able to play it cool earlier in the episode too, like look when he's actually emotional he loses the ability to speak properly, he really didn't care if he died earlier. Missed opportunity if you ask me.
Really wondering where SHIELD is getting its funding from. That new heli-plane would cost well over a billion dollars to build.
Same place the money came from in Age of Ultron for the new Helicarriers I would assume. Seems Phil built this for his team while outfitting the Avengers.
That makes sense. Wherever THAT money came from.
Stark. All money flows from Stark in the MCU from what I can tell.
@aphasia: Totally agree about it being a missed opportunity. If he'd had stammer during his negotiation but overcome it, and a more significant breakdown with Coulson like you mentioned, that would've really heightened the rest of what they were doing with him. It's also the sort of continuity that I would have hoped someone would've mentioned. It's really frustrating.

@AndrewCrossett: My working theory is that SHIELD is self-funded, and that their reserves are so massive that they are able to generate their operating budget through strategic investment. Since they were really an off-the-books sort of shadow agency anyway, I can buy the idea that Fury had them set up with funds to continue to operate autonomously for a long, long time within the world that has been established here.
Bishop Amber Tamblyn is Russ Tamblyn's daughter. Russ was Dr. Derek Jacobi on "Twin Peaks," which starred...Kyle M.

Sunfire I thought it was handled well - subtle. Just a casual reference to his ex, and then later when he was talking to Sk'daisy he said he'd had to "come out with a big secret."

In the beginning, when they were panning the apartment, I thought the stone legs belonged to his significant other. How much would that suck??
Someone needs to do a six-degrees-of-separation game across the Whedonverse :)

And very cool that we finally have an openly gay regular character.

Maybe it will turn out that Fitz is a budding Inhuman, hence the rapid brain healing? Hey, it's possible ...
Where do the Sleestaks come in to the picture?
Is Joey supposed to be a regular character?
Right now Simmons is more likely to be an Inhuman than Fitz. The stone took her but ignores him.
I finally watched the episode. Fitz is so badass now. Woah! Oh and the battle against Lash was so cool. Actually so much about this episode was cool, the effects are better, the fights are great, and I even liked the new sets. I missed May though. I hope she comes back soon. I love where everyone is on the team and the stand off between Coulson and villain chick was really good. I squealed when I saw the President from Iron Man 3 on the tv and when Coulson mentioned Pym Tech. I just loved and loved it and am so happy the show is back on!
Are we certain that Joey is the first gay regular on the show? I kind of feel like Mac may be as well (and his initial reaction to his and Joey's shared interests felt a little foreshadowy). It WOULD certainly be interesting to see Mac get involved with ANY powered individual considering his feelings about them.
Well, neither Fitz nor Simmons can be (terrigenesised) inhumans and not know it, because you go all cocoon-y and explode. Fitz would know if he went through it, and he would have mentioned it to someone--he can keep a secret for a friend, but he doesn't really keep secrets himself.

Also, the minute they realized it was Fish Oil, I'm sure that everyone on the team stopped taking the supplements.
But Fitz may not have been Terrigenesised at all if he doesn't consume fish oil. Simmons disappeared before anyone figured out the fish oil was involved. She could still be an Inhuman (which, with her early advocacy of keeping a registry of Inhumans, could come back to bite her - maybe literally).

I'm all for all the women of SHIELD having superpowers, and all the men being supporting characters. ;)
Joey is certainly the first character who has been introduced as gay or any sort of queer orientation. We can debate who might be gay or bi but to date no one else has alluded to coming out, mentioned past same sex partners, and so on. That's important.
Just watched on Hulu plus. I'd like to correct the poster earlier in the thread who speculated that it would be a week until it was available on this service- it has most happily been available since this morning.
It was a great episode and I was delighted to see Bill Sadler back as President Ellis.
A random observation I had is that there were like 6 or 7 things, mostly in the opening sequence, that reminded me of Metal Gear Solid V. Smoke grenades blocking an aerial extraction from the eyes of guards who later return wearing gas masks, a main character who's lost his left arm at the elbow, and frequent references to DARPA. There's only one other place you can find all that stuff.
Re: Fitz's brain damage.

I had a traumatic brain injury on July 4th, 2006. Initially, I could barely form a sentence. Within about 6 months, I had healed as much as it seems I ever will. Someone who didn't know me VERY well before my accident wouldn't know that there was anything wrong with me. My biggest ongoing problems that are definitely attributable to my brain damage are short term memory deficits (that are fairly easy to work around if I make the least bit of effort) and occasional bouts of dysphasia. I certainly have days and even weeks in which I don't present any outward sign of my impairment.

While I hope that they haven't completely wiped away the effects of Fitz's brain damage, people can and do make relatively rapid and dramatic (and even complete) recoveries from brain damage. And I personally have felt that the depiction of Fitz's injury and recovery have been very realistic and very relatable.
@Nebula - the point above was that Fitz's inhuman-ness had lead his brain to heal, and my point was that couldn't be his inhuman ability because he hadn't gone into a cocoon. I think that QingTing is right and he has recovered in the months since his accident.

I kind of wish they had explored it a touch more, since there are so few characters on television with such disabilities, and for such a brilliant character to be unable to show his could had had more screentime, methinks.
I too suffered the indignity of being unable to watch the premiere due to TV reception issues (the recording my PVR made got all garbled starting with the tail end of the Coulson-Price face-off and the Lash vs. Lincoln, Daisy and Mack fight...definitely gotta borrow from Dr. Horrible: "Balls!"


Gotta say though...I was overjoyed to see our beloved Scottish engineer take a level in badass in the name of saving Simmons. Plus, having caught the scene where Fitz confronts the Monolith, I definitely have to give Iain De Caestecker mega props!
Still on the hot-men-of-AoS kick, anyone notice the total Goliath-of-a-dude (an extra) as Yusef's goon/bodyguard ? (Yusef was the ISIS member that Fitz went to for info/for the scroll -- it was HEAVILY implied that that group was an ISIS cell, what with the current affairs mention). I always look at the background actors. Guy was beast-hot, if you're into that type as well.

Thank-you very much for sharing, QuingTing -- now we know that Fitz's recovery isn't unexplained, just that he might have recovered naturally over time and that the writers weren't interested in exploring that development any further (could still pop up, of course).
Loved the premiere. They certainly start the season off very very strong. I really think SHIELD is the only superhero show of any kind that just gets better and better whereas the others are faltering left and right (past shows included *cough* Heroes *cough*).

I really enjoyed that Rosalind was quickly revealed to not be responsible for killing the Inhumans and that the misdirect didn't play out over several episodes. That was such a great moment of greyness between Team Coulson and Team Rosalind.

Also, damnit Fitz. Bringing the pain.

Really looking forward to Jemma coming back "wrong" (or at the very least very different). Great setups here.

Btw, I'd love it if Joss hopped back in to write an episode or direct. Family thing and all.
They have just revealed how much time has passed since the end of Season 2 and the premiere. Its not worth a separate post so here it is.









She has been gone 6 months. Much longer than I would have guessed.
That's about in line with what I assumed from what has been going on. It clearly wasn't just a week or two. Had to have been multiple months.

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