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November 10 2015

(SPOILER) Discuss Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 3x07 "Chaos Theory". The episode was written by Lauren LeFranc and directed by David Solomon.

Howdy everyone.
Hi all. Happy Tuesday. Very excited for this one.
For a minute I thought they were going to say Tahiti..
All our fish oil assumptions, gone. This is better though.
Wow, that was clumsy.
Oh. So that's how he was infected... But why would he turn into something that hates Inhumans.
That's what happens when you let dust accumulate on books.
Oh not the right time for that example, Coulson...
Hello! Hello! Hello!!

Oh Andrew!
Ooh, Andrew. Up to no good.
I just don't understand how he can go from being Andrew, to what Lash does. :/
May scared is unnerving.
hann23, agreed!
OH, thank god.
OK. Fuck Andrew. He's going to have to go.
I love this kind of perspective - the same dialogue as usual, all resonating very differently when focused on one person's perspective.
It sprung a weird memory.
Reminding me of anothr major time dusty things got unearthed, Illyria taking over Fred's body in Angel, weird memories.
Wonder if Lash and Andrew ties is somewhat similar.
That was a wild yet cool cut. This ep has creeped me out 2x in 10 minutes.
It's tomorrow on here. It's my birthday!
Stucker comatose OK he is alive then.

Watch out Joey, this may be a Fred/Illyria situation, dust and all.
Numfar PTB, like Lash was something that took over Andrew, not something he became?
Yeah I can't see how we keep Andrew after this.
I hope it's not a Fred/Illyria thing.
Hey, all! Laptop hiccupped.

May is going to have to ... ugh.
Ohhhhh. Right in the heart!
Happy Birthday Nebula1400. And Fitz just played the bday video.
Thanks, hann23.

Lincoln may be useful, yet.
Huh. Interesting to see Lincoln and Mack working together.
That is the time the show should try to remind people that it does exist within the MCU....
See! Andrew has to go!
That wasn't a normal bullet, right?
Looked like Icer blue shot to me.
I love that whenever someone gets shot with an icer right before a commercial break we always get unsure and TENSE as hell.
Welcome, javelina.

What is the time, NumfarPTB?
Even if it's an icer, it's domestic violence. So still not cool.
This episode hurts.
"If there is hope, it lies in the proles" - 1984

"If there is hope, it lies in ... Lincoln?" - Agents of SHIELD
*feels* Dammit.
When Price and Daisy were discussing about the merits of SHIELD ways of dealing with Inhumans compared to ACTU. A bit downplayed, when there certain awareness of other things happening from the movies.
This is all really really upsetting, eesh.
"Nauseated," not "nauseous," Andrew! (Once a copy editor ... )
The hate-dating is really making progress.
More angry flirting. They're killing me.
See, javelina. Andrew has to go!
I don't understand how Andrew's Inhuman transformation includes a strong instinctual drive to do things he'd normally abhor rather than just a new form and set of abilities.
He's becoming more and more Lash, and less and less Andrew.
Oh, lord, this is going to be the worst. At this point, the only question is how Andrew is going to die.
I didn't think I'd feel this sad about Andrew slowing becoming a ruthless killer.
Sunfire, me either.
Well the Inhuman origin secret is out of the closet.

[ edited by JDL on 2015-11-11 03:36 ]
It is SUPER sad. How did he get the Mr. Hyde transformation? It's terrible.
Maybe Andrew's lingering anger about the little girl having a power that forced May to do what she did, which took May from him colored his subconscious and what he became as an Inhuman was guided by that?
@Sunfire - I wonder if Andrew always secretly abhorred the super powered once they became known?

This is just so sad. Ouch.
Maybe what Andrew would "normally abhor" is learned, versus his instinctual lashing out at people he fears, Sunfire. You can't genetically engineer socialization.
NYPinTA, I'm sad too! I think it's more about May than Andrew but it's surprisingly emotional all around. Trust a Whedon show. Or - don't trust a Whedon show.

[ edited by javelina on 2015-11-11 03:39 ]
Andrew is going to be made a slimy ice cube.
I'm thinking putting Lincoln on the team was a bad idea...
Uh, oh. But she'll live, because they would have wanted us to see her die as the centerpiece of a scene, for full impact.
The shotgun axe - we need it now. Also Rosalind needs Daisy even righter now..
This is not going to end well and Lincoln will not be a real team player for the foreseeable future.
I don't want Andrew to die because I want to understand. This is Illyria. ***sniff**
As horrible as what Andrew did as Lash, I'm really annoyed at Lincoln. And Coulson for letting him help with the actual take down. I mean...come on.
I was going to say Lincoln's thing was part of the plan.
I <3 Melinda May.
LOL, nice try Hunter. You are a good (albeit sometimes stupid) man.
Andrew and Lash do seem like mostly two separate entities. But Lash does influence on Andrew's actions, more than other way around.
Everything is tied up in a neat little bow. I'm DREADING the next few minutes.
*stab stab stab* Thanks, show. THANKS A LOT.
This episode is just continuous punching right in the feels.
Oh gee whiz, I'm a mess. Omg.
Ok I was wrong. And Fitz killed it again.
I dread the final scene as well, Pudungurte. Oh no oh no.
There is no such thing as a happy couple on a Whedon show. If they are, someone dies, leaves, or gets put on ice.
Oh nooooo. Two levels of NO.
No no no no no stop with the kissing!
That was so wrong.
Don't worry. He's playing her.
Hunter is right! Kill him! (Ward, I mean)

Or wait Rosalind?!

[ edited by hann23 on 2015-11-11 04:01 ]
Evil Roz ! Evil !
This was my favorite episode of the season so far.Across the board.And that tag.Damn.
Aw crap. But then again he was part of the Security Council so maybe Rosalind thinks he's good.

And seriously Mack being single probably makes him the safest agent right now.
I do think Rosalind thinks he's good. He's Hydra that wasn't found out. But, she's still up to something it seems... or she isn't aware that something else is going on at the ACTU. If that's possible. But even still STOP KISSING COULSON.
So really everyone should be listening to Hunter because he's been right. But no one is listening to him.

Excellent episode.
I was going straight to "She's Hydra" so thank you, y'all.
Hunter is right. I fear he's going to end up getting killed at the moment everyone realizes it.

And Phil is playing Rosalind. He didn't get to where he is by being a fool.
Daisy, May and now Coulson. For spies they all seem to be seduced by evil at some point. After this they may seriously need to look at celibacy as a career stabilizer.
Coulson did seem way too smug.

[ edited by Grack21 on 2015-11-11 04:14 ]
I'm kind of wondering about Gideon Malick's true allegiance.

Well, looks like I got another theory right: the same secret cult that's been sending people to Planet X is operating within NASA and sent Will and the others there. Probably as human sacrifices.

Hunter continues to be the Spike of this show... he says things that make you want to punch him, but he's right.
So do we have a collective primal scream going?

Let us not forget that Coulson's actual True Love is played by ... Fred/Illyria.
This series ruins most other current shows for me. Very little else in this genre is as emotionally resonant, well-paced, or has such tight story arcs.
Ouch @javelina!

I think Rosalind is purposefully obtuse about her boss's nefarious intentions. She believes controlling the Inhuman population is in the best interest of her country so she's not going to ask too many questions. I suppose I believe that's she is gray - not completely evil or good.
That notion seems to go well with the changing perspectives in this episode, javelina. It's almost poetic.
I am bothered that Coulson seemed to buy into the "cure" line that Roz is putting out. There is no way to reverse this with any science we can foresee.
@JDL, I am bothered as well, which is why I'm choosing to believe he's playing a long game.

Re: "science we can foresee" - we are in the world of sci fi, even though the show makes me forget that sometimes. Coulson's resurrection can't be foreseen either.
If Coulson's cellist (whose name I can't remember) turns out to be an Inhuman, I may have a minor nervous breakdown.
The storylines this season are moving at a breakneck pace. I can not imagine where the characters and arcs will be at the end of the season.

I think this show has officially removed filler episodes from its playbook.

[ edited by eddy on 2015-11-11 04:47 ]
@javelina I think we agree. Some of the things used to bring back Coulson were otherworldly. But the level of tech that I can
see Roz having access to won't cut it. At a minimum they would need everything that SHIELD has and a Fitz-Simmons to even
take a pass at it.

But in the final analysis I really can't see the Kree building a weapon like the Inhumans that could be negated in this way.
@JDL - Roz's tech? You're completely right.

[ edited by javelina on 2015-11-11 05:00 ]
@javelina: The cellist us Audrey. If she is Inhuman, I hope she's blue!

There is no way to reverse this with any science we can foresee.

I don't think they will find a way to reverse something that is part of the genetic blueprint of Inhumans, just as there are illnesses IRL where there is no cure, because the conditions are determined by the genetic makeup of their sufferers.

Roz is not in charge of whatever frikkin' initials organization she represents, is she? Maybe the World Council guy is in charge of it. She may or may not know he's Hydra. Anyway, the ATCU may (1) be a means of collecting an army of Inhumans for Hydra; (2) be a means of gathering and destroying Inhumans for the Kree, who have been trying to wipe them out; (3) could be behind the NASA program using the portal to travel to another galaxy (oh, f-ing Stargate...); (4) could be all of the above; (5) could be none of the above.

Coulson is working a long game here. I have no doubt about it.
AndrewCrossett - dear lord you have nailed it. Hunter = Spike, both in (delightful) annoyance level and knack for truth-telling.
Which is why I have always liked Hunter.

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-11-11 09:40 ]
Spikeiness* seems tied to a British accent then.

*new word !
WTF Coulson. WTF even more Rosalind! So the meeting with the President was really her playing Phil to go get killed by Malick. I loved that line of hers in the preview for next week, "I don't think I want to share anything else with you" (or words to that effect). Glad Fitz saw all the videos of Jemma talking to him while on the planet.
Was relieved when the Joey-kill ended up being a fake-out/Andrew-daydream...was pretty pissed off for a couple seconds, there. Good to see Joey again, though ! He's quickly becoming the Magneto of the MCU/among Inhumans (powers-wise...I doubt he will become an Inhuman supremacist). Because of the fake-out death, I doubt they'll kill him off any time soon. We should see a superpowered division of the team by either season's end or by the mid-season finale (so far there's Daisy, Lincoln, Joey, and have they said whether SHIELD has any other Inhumans in the running ? Oh yeah, and GingerNinja too. Too bad Donnie/Blizzard was so unstable, he would've been a powerful recruit too).

We're about due for a Mike Peterson/Deathlok appearance too. Plus tying up Quinn and that professor that fell into the Gravitonium way back near the beginning of Season 1 too.

Nice return to form -- I thought last week's ep was the only sorta-weak link in the season thus far. The FitzSimmons B plot was nice too.
As soon as I saw Roz tie Coulson's tie, I realized that something bad was coming for them. Also, I guess that is a very logical reason why we haven't been seeing Coulson in suits this season (although why can't he have them pre-done a la Lindsey McDonald?).

My initial thought when I saw Powers Booth answering his phone was that he was calling Lincoln. Also, Lincoln's a big of an idiot as of late, yes?

Ming-Na Wen shot this episode out of the park. I think I may need to make a Melinda May Fan Club.

I thought Lash was going to be the Big Bad of this half of the season, but I guess we are back at the ATCU (with, presumably, Hydra for the second half). Which is fine, because they can do way more with the ATCU then they can with Lash. I am beginning to wonder why we are (again) being strung along with the Ward train. Either he needs to start being a major part in this show or he needs to go away. He's just kind of filler at this point. Either make him the big bad, or go for redemption. I'm tired of just seeing him gather supplies though.

(Last year, I said the same thing about him being kept in that cell, and next episode he broke out. So I think something will happen soon. But I'm bored of his character arc, as much as I enjoy his character.)
Hunter is more of a Spike/Anya mix.
To be clear, what Lincoln did was planned. If you have a chance, rewatch the episode. He was using his power to push Lash into the confinement area.

Hunter serves the purpose of stating the obvious, especially when nobody else is getting it. That's what Cordelia, Spike, and then Anya did.
I try, but I just don't care about May's love life.

So tired of Ward, hated the Rosalind twist. Can at least someone not have a hidden agenda on this show? I was really digging her chemistry with Coulson.

And why is Lincoln so dumb? I mean jeopardizing the mission to get revenge? What an idiot.

Love me some Daisy though!
Overall a good episode, but there were some annoyances. Also thought Lash would be built up as Big Bad, but again, much like Mister Hyde last season, his power reveal was kind of anti-climatic. Not sure why, but this show has never really delivered top notch action/SFX ... or maybe my expectations are too high.

Also, it seems odd that Lincoln is seemingly back in the fold, when his actions were clearly out of line, and it could be argued people died due to his choice to engage the way he did. Also - not to smart play to blurt out with ATCU standing there that you know of a "directory" of all Inhumans. Roz nearly ran off screen stage left shouting "Get me that book!"

I truly hope Coulson is playing some long game here - I'm mystified as to his blasť reaction to the ACTU's, as far as I can read, blatant kidnapping and "comatizing" of Inhuman types. Unless they're all signing a waiver saying they're OK with being put to sleep and locked up, it's hard to justify and it doesn't seem like an idea Coulson would gamely go along with

Iain's acting chops really stand out, to the point where it's almost distracting. Thought Blair was also very strong although undercut a bit by the unclear nature of what exactly the Lash motivation was

The teaser suggests next week things kick into high(er) gear - and I'm pleased that I have no idea what direction that may be
Overall, I thought it was an OK episode. I agree that Iain's acting really stands out - his story was by far the most compelling aspect of the episode for me. I'd love a show featuring him, Bobbi and May as the three leads. They stand out as having the most untapped potential of all the characters on this show. Maybe Daisy as well, as I've been liking her character more and more lately.

I've never really had much interest in May/Andrew. Never felt like the two had any chemistry together, so this whole conflict really didn't do anything for me. Makes me sad, because I think May is one of the more interesting characters on the show, so I wish I was more invested in this storyline.

What stood out the most for me was the dialogue - it felt really rough. I mean, Andrew's exchange with Joey ("My fate is in your hands" - "Yes, Joey. It is.") was just groan worthy. Same with his comment to Jemma early in the episode about secrets eating you up from the inside.
I agree, Knuckleball, that some of the dialogue was heavy-handed. But I did appreciate the running commentary on "monsters" given how much the idea informed Age of Ultron... a nice bit of continuity between TV and movies.

I want the DVD set for this season to include video inside the writers' room where they broke this season's plot lines. That had to be more than one heck of a conversation.
I don't think Lincoln's initial run at Andrew/Lash was part of any plan. The others made comments about him going off script. It wasn't until later that he said he could get him to the containment unit and was leading him there, only to be intercepted by May who finished the job.

Basically, for me, although I like Lincoln (I know some people don't), he was the most problematic. From his initial arival where he's spilling all the secrets, to him losing his cool and going at Andrew full on. :/

The rest of the episode was a gut punch. (In a good way...?)

(ETA: And why wouldn't they have taken Jiayngs (sp) books someplace more secure to be tested for anything before just handing them off to a non-agent at a non-secure location? That bugs me.)

[ edited by NYPinTA on 2015-11-11 18:07 ]
It could be gaping plot holes, or all part of a plan to figure out ACTU. We don't know if all that stuff being revealed to Rosalind is part of a long-term strategy, or if we're witnessing crappy writing. I refuse to draw any conclusions until we see the whole story play out.
This week's episode was stronger than last, and attempted to explain the disconnect between Andrew and Lash.

Fitz, as always, was great.

Surprised at the number of people who aren't into the May/Andrew relationship. I actually think it's the most mature/human/recognizable/real of any relationship we've been presented so far. Is it that it's just not romantic enough?
The authorities are treating this as a Public Health Issue like an outbreak of Ebola. In that case you don't need the same waivers and permissions.
Regarding Andrew's mindframe here, is it possible he's lashing out at Inhumans because he hated the way he's changed but Lash could have his own agenda if/when he fully emerged? Lincoln said Andrew would be 'gone' when that happens. Sort of a more violent Bruce=/=Hulk split? Maybe Lash would want to be more like his comic half if he could banish Andrew?
I think Andrew *thinks* he understands why he's doing what he's doing, but he doesn't. His particular Inhuman coding hard-wires him to kill Inhumans... at least *some* Inhumans, and he doesn't necessarily know which ones are to be spared, or why. He is operating solely as a tool of the Kree here.
I wouldn't say he's a Kree tool. The Kree don't know about this uptick of Inhumans that we know of. And Andrew was genetically pre-loaded for this, he got the Mist just by accident. Now whatever is on Sand Planet may be a different story.
This series ruins most other current shows for me. Very little else in this genre is as emotionally resonant, well-paced, or has such tight story arcs.


Very much agree. And damnit, that Fitz/Simmons thing keeps breaking my heart over and over again, especially since I'm going through a vaguely vaguely vaguely similar thing myself right now(obviously no interplanetary travel and secret societies are involved - that I know of).

Only thing that bothered me was the "I lashed out" line. Rolled my eyes very loudly at that one. The corny "my fate lies on your hands" line and the one about secrets just flew by but the direct reference to his name was a bit odd. Would've worked if nobody had called him Lash on the show, I think.
My $0.02: Andy's pre-Terrigen directive from SHIELD was to help assess the newly-created Inhumans as part of Daisy's effort to put together a team — separating the good/useful ones from those who need to be locked up. Lash has internalized that directive somewhat, only his options are either spare the worthy ones or kill the unworthy.
I saw comments and tweets that some fans had difficulty connecting with May's angst because they do not ship her with Andrew. I don't ship the pair or anyone yet. So I wasn't that invested in May and Andrew.

What slammed me in the gut was simply May's pain. Ming Na conveyed so much with so little. And seeing her in pain made me love her so much more because she wasn't just the "Calvary."

I wanted to share that for me it's possible to feel the feels without the shipping. I was literally crying for May because she was so hurt. I feel weepy thinking about it now as I type. I really thought Ming Na was outstanding but maybe I missed something.

I also just want Joyce to give May a cup of hot chocolate.
That's a very logical way to look at relationships in this or any show; you may or may not connect with some couples being a romantic couple, a just-friends couple like Fitzsimmons with one side of that equation having feelings the other side doesn't have, but it's the empathy that's important. That's why I can love Fitzsimmons as best of friends, but not buy them romantically, and feel acutely, through the acting, the abject pain of Fitz going through such complex emotions about the Will/portal scenario.

And May's pain, even though I don't care much about her coupledom with Andrew (there being so little about him previously, to care) was so palpable and grounded, you get a sense of how important her relationship with him was or could have been again, even though you the viewer may not be invested in it at all.
Tonya J thank you for writing it so well - that's what I meant.
Not at all. I was just expounding on what you wrote so well! :=)
>> The shotgun axe - we need it now.
"This . . . , is my BOOMSAW!"
Where is Sam Axe when we need him most?
What hann23 and Tonya J said.

May to Andrew: "I love crayon-breaky Andrew and I love lashy inhumany Andrew".
Honestly, I can't feel May's pain. She and Andrew have no chemistry, and all the emotion in their scenes, both positive and negative, feels forced. Maybe it's why I didn't find this episode as moving as others (aside from the FitzSimmons scenes, which were the best parts of the episode).

This is not to say that the episode wasn't good. I just have a hard time buying that May and Andrew actually have a relationship.

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-11-12 23:37 ]
Okay this episode literally gave me a nightmare.
Which aspect of it gave you a nightmare, barboo ? Andrew turning into Lash ?
Did no one else catch the "books are smelly" callback to our beloved Buffy?
I did, Ronald. :). Pretty sure someone here subtly pointed it out when they likened Rosalind to Jenny Calender.

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