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November 17 2015

(SPOILER) Discuss Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 3x08 "Many Heads, One Tale". The episode was written by Jed Whedon and DJ Doyle. It was directed by Garry Brown.

No idea what to expect. But whoooooooot, for whatever it is.
Hey all!

Hah, Leland Palmer is on Fresh Off the Boat.
LOL! I hope it has the sense to wake me up!

Good evening, NYPinTA, and whoever else shows up!
Howdy Nebula1400! :)
So, we get to continue with discussion of Agent Carter as we did last year. So happy about that!
Will FitsSimmons take the next step?

Way to cheapen the show!
Oh they had to show the kissing again! ugh.
I know that was fun to see! I can't wait for Agent Carter.

[ edited by hann23 on 2015-11-18 03:01 ]
I love octapi...
oooh pool ball to the head!
This is the testosterone portion of the show.
I guess Hydra doesn't have agents as well trained as SHIELD... except for the SHIELD trained agent...
Wolf,Ram, and Hart...
Keebler Elves!! Truth!

You're right Nebula1400 - hmmmmmmmm.

[ edited by hann23 on 2015-11-18 03:07 ]
Oh that was smooth, Daisy...
SHIELDs other mission is cookies? I'm on board.
Mack is my hero right now.
Ram Symbol? Does the Strucker vault lead to a hole in the world with an evil law firm at the end?

Pretty cool fight scene with Ward.

Sparkplug in trouble!
Please let Hydra's greatest power be logo embroidery.
Fight scenes are definitely better now!
Exactly how long is that other bad guy going to let Ward have fun with his minions? I'm assuming they were supposed to check in after Ward was dead.
Hey, y'all! Great Ward fight scene. Javelina_kid pointed out that if it had happened on Daredevil there would have been a lot more crunchy sound effects - and the scene would have gone on longer.

Why am I deeply suspicious of Lincoln? Is it because he's pre-evil-Ward bland?

... Oh, the scene IS going on longer.
These Hydra operatives look quite generic. Also, no women? It usually bothers me when producers go literal on the men part of henchmen.
This kind of flirting isn't as fun. Go back to angry untrusting flirting!
Wait... was that a reference to Roseann?
Did they just make a Roseanne reference with "Derlene?"
Oh there's hacker Daisy!
I believe it was...
Don't know why I look at Lincoln using his power, and that show from the late 90s or early 00s Mutant X comes to mind. Can't explain why, especially considering how cheap the effects looked on tht show.
Dearest? Ugh. Kill me. Kill me now.
Noooooooooooo! *dies*
What!? What morons "sacrifice" people AND work with NASA at the same time?
@Nebula, it's such a delight to hate Ward.

Hunter as nerd (with earpiece) reminds me of Enver Gjokaj playing Fran Kranz on Dollhouse!
The Friendly Skies of Hydra ? Dayum!
Hunter as a nerd just made him hotter. :)
I despise Ward! And how did he not freeze?
LOL, Nebula, I'm loving the Ward-hate call and response.

That was a supremely creepy scene. That poor flight attendant.
He fell quickly to less than freezing air temps?
Great scene with Hunter and Daisy, go team work!

Ward is really getting his 007 on.

Ward's jumped out a plane before sans coat, and was fine.
It might have been a reference to Darlene from Mr. Robot fits a lot more with the scene...
Have Lincoln and Ward ever met?
I think it was Roseann.

And yes Nerd Hunter and Scully!Bobby was hot.

Uh oh, here comes FitzSimmons chat. I'm still not ready.

[ edited by hann23 on 2015-11-18 03:26 ]
Yeah Fitz, stop being you! (That's what I heard.)
Pretty sure both of them are just full of crap.
Hunter can't type. :D
Oh my god. They didn't test his typing skills first??? hahahahaha.
has May said anything this ep except "him?"
Hero man? hahaha. Oh Fitz.
And watching Fitz keeps breaking my heart....
Aw. Damn it. DAAAAMN IT!
Holy FitzSimmons!
Fitz is the Wesley Wyndham-Price of S.H.I.E.L.D.

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-11-18 03:32 ]
It's a trap? Or the Inhumans are being killed?
And that would be weird, anyhow... :D
Holy shit. They're looking for Inhumans...!
Where the heck is Malick? Andrew's not going to stay contained, is he?

Among many, many other questions.
Phil was playing the long game...
I knew Phil was playing the long game!

Why are they keeping the cocoons?
No Nebula, Lincoln's never met Ward. It's partly why some think he might be In the Well Little Brother.
Really loving the spy vibe on this episode, this is some classic SHIELD action. To say nothing on the heartbreaking scene between Fitz and Simmons. Both of them are reacting with such complicated emotions, they are both probably way out of their analytical depth. Great scene for both of them!
Maybe they aren't paying anything for crypt maintenance, javelina.
Wait... some people think Lincoln is Ward's little brother?
Yes. That's one theory, NYPinTA.
They've got them cataloged. They're trying to figure out how the transformation works.
Malick served on the World Council. Same guy as in The Avengers.
Oooooooohhhhhh. Huh.
Oh no that was not good at all. I'm seriously worried about the two of them.
I may not survive the commercial break.

This ep feels like I'm cramming before finals. I so need to rewatch to catch everything.

[ edited by hann23 on 2015-11-18 03:46 ]
Not-Magneto?

Nice twist with May/Lincoln.
Damn, this episode is jam packed.
Did not see that coming, whoa. Hydra Inhumans seem like a truly terrible idea.

So what do we think of Roz now?
That was a great AofS bit for Good Morning America.
What date is the final fall episode? I'm trying to plan my nervous breakdown in advance.
I think "poor Roz". She was played by Malik, and Coulson may be asking himself some hard questions soon.
Love her batons!
BTW, I'm rejecting the whole Lincoln as Ward's little brother because of the Daisy connection. Because that's too... no, just no. Please don't.
Yeah, I agree Roz was played to an extent.
One of the council guys that were not present during the events from Winter Soldier.
So Malick is building his own little army with Ward and Andrew now? Great. (Not great.)
Is that a baby monolith?
How sweet. A mini-monolith. [Edited - monolith, not obelisk. Get it together, javelina.]

Is Ward going to the Other Planet?

[ edited by javelina on 2015-11-18 04:18 ]
Now, I'm wondering if we might have things from Guardians of the Galaxy tyeing into main events sooner than expected.
Leader on the other side???
That thing! Is it the same as the thing at the end of Ultron? (Was it Ultron?)
Wow. Just wow. That was some awesome mythology crafting there!
What was at the end of Ultron, NYPinTA?
Shit! The Dust Monster is an ancient Inhuman founder of Hydra! Is Daniel a pawn or one of them too?
Well this explains the holes in the monolith.
AOS can connect to any of the movies very easily, now.
Oh, fuck!

I hate Ward!
I hate Ward.
Midseason finale is December 8th for anyone wanting to plan their breakdown.
I am really enjoying the fast pace of Season 3.
Amazing episode tonight.Really love how they basically connected all the major storylines together.
I wonder if Daniel is the leader that Hydra follows.
Numfar, do the Dance of Hating Ward!
Plan their breakdown, Dusk? As in mental breakdown?
NYPinTA, explain the end of Age of Ultron reference, that has me intrigued.
We need a hating Ward song.
I am so loving Ward! I fear they may be cashing him in this seasons, and that will make me sad. Grant Ward is the Magento of this show, he's been their best villain, but I suppose he can only remain for so long. And FitzSimmons have still to settle things! So much awesome to come in the next two episodes!
@Buffyfanatic, I agree, truly an amazing pulling together of threads!

After all the buildup, poor FitzSimmons got very short shrift.
Wow... we seem to be getting into some Lovecraftian stuff with the secret founder of Hydra.
@Nebula-Yes.


As for FitzSimmons it is a milestone. At least she's not pregnant (that we know of).
Nebula 1400 & garyyager... I am probably remembering wrong, but at the end of one of the movies I saw was something in our past building, (I think) the pyramids with power. Was that at the end of Ultron (the after credits scene) or something else... gah, getting old sucks. Memory goes fuzzy. Where am I?

Anyone else know what the heck I'm talking about?
I really hope they don't make Jemma pregnant.
The Twitter poll is kinda funny now. Both. She was working with Hydra without being aware of it.
It really was a neat tie up. I was wondering how they were going to bring it together. And with the portal -- they can really go anywhere.
I think you're thinking about X-Men: Days of Future Past, NYPinTA. That's out of the question for AOS.
Maybe Ward will go through the portal, extending his time on the show in some intergalactic way.
Nebula1400, thanks. But damn! Because that would have been cool... ;)
I think I sorta had "Rosalind is working for evil but isn't aware of it". Do I win something? I kind of need a boost after the whole "no, it was X-Men, not Ultron" thing.
NYPinTA - You win a mini-obelisk!
It's too bad it's legally impossible for it to be the Wolf, the Ram and the Hart on that planet.
javelina, yay!


Wait... hmm....
@Nebula, it was me that was planning the mental breakdown. Because Dec. 10 to March 10 is going to be a loooong 3 months!

@AndrewCrossett, I don't think they'll go with the Wolf, the Ram & the Hart, but - and sorry, I really can't remember the ins and outs of this - is "Angel" perhaps Whedon rather than whoosit property?
NYPinTA may end up with Daniel (or whatever he is) forever.
But Javelina, we'll have Agent Carter in between. Of course, we'll have tho wait through the stupid holidays for a few weeks before that.
@Nebula, my nominee for the hating Ward song is "Hurts So Good." Not that I particularly like that song, but its annoying-ness makes it work even better, right?

Edited to add - and YES, thank heavens for Agent Carter!

[ edited by javelina on 2015-11-18 04:24 ]
There's always "You're No Good."
javelina-Buffy/Angel are still partly controlled by the company that helped Joss put in on the air. In theory they could pull the plug on the comics if they wanted I believe. They won't let Disney directly reference it.

NyPinTA-Well, if Daisy is Buffy then Ward is Angelus who is sort of related to Spike who is blonde like Lincoln...
In that scenario, Dusk, maybe Lincoln is Riley, or Parker.
Daisy is totes Willow. (IMO.) ;)
@Dusk, thanks, I knew I was confused.

Funny, tonight my kid said Ward reminds him of Angelus. (I said yeah, but I prefer this actor who is having such a great time.)

However, I'm definitely going with Hunter=Spike.
If Andrew/Lash are Fred/Illyria that makes May=Wesley without the clumsy phase. Hunter is Xander? Bobbi is Anya?

[ edited by Dusk on 2015-11-18 04:32 ]
I'm with javelina. Hunter=Spike.
NYPinTA you get the gold star for Rosakind.

Hurt so Good is a great Ward theme song. What about Sympathy of the Devil? Too awesome for Ward?

Also, I'm not buying that Ward likes this new Hydra plan. He's an independent operator who doesn't want to co-rule with anyone.. I think he's playing a long game on this evil World Council Hydra man to create as much mayhem as possible to stick it to Shield. He could have a "happy meal on legs" moment. But remain evil on Earth. I don't think Ward will equal Spike but he might want his sandbox for himself.

[ edited by hann23 on 2015-11-18 04:38 ]
I think FitzSimmons= Wesley and Fred. Hunter=Spike. Andrew=Angel/Angelus. Coulson=Giles. Daisy=Willow. Bobbi=Buffy. Mack=Anya. Ward=Lilah Morgan. Deathlok/Mike=Gunn.
"Sympathy for the Devil" is too awesome for Ward - so far. If he lasts a good long while, he might earn it.

Now I'm trying to think of villains who have in fact earned that song. He/she has to be spectacularly slimy and terrifying. Andrew Scott's Moriarty on "Sherlock" was so dreadful that he got "Sinnerman," and Nina Simone outclasses even Jagger/Richards ...
Ward is worse than Lilah Morgan, Nebula! Did she kill her whole family?

Hm. ... She could have, without breaking a nail. So maybe.

Edited to add: who is May?

[ edited by javelina on 2015-11-18 04:43 ]
OK Nebula you win. Tripp=Doyle. Rosalind=Riley, both pawns in government for a bad guy trying to make a monster army.
Except that Tripp is invisible and helping out the team all the time, they just haven't caught on yet! lalalalalalala And no one can tell me different.
So Tripp is Dennis the Ghost?
Wait. Wait. If the team gets into ATCU because of computer shenanigans caused by Andrew's containment cell, but Andrew's containment cell isn't actually at ATCU, how did that work?!
BTW, I think Ward is so much fun to love to hate because we got to see "good Ward" and he wasn't that interesting. Then he revealed his true colors and it was awful, heartbreaking, and so frustrating... but suddenly Ward was interesting! Usually a bad guy is a bad guy, unless they get a redemption arc. But rarely are they good but then go bad.
Dusk, YES! You can have the gold star I won for the Rosalyn thing. (Is it Rosalyn or Rosalind? Or something else?)
Yes! Tripp IS Dennis the Ghost!

May=Zoe Washburne.
I think it's Rosalind.
I think Rosalind thinks it's Rosalind, but she's been lied to this whole time and it's actually Rosalyn.
Rosalind=Jenny Calendar.

Uh oh!
Omg May is Zoe, Nebula1400!

Maybe we should just call her Roz - like the secret agent from Monsters Inc.

[ edited by hann23 on 2015-11-18 05:00 ]
@javelina-Andrew was in an ATCU building just not the same one as everyone else. The computer network is probably connected.

Thanks Nebula! It's Rosalind.
@Dusk Good call on the containment unit and the computer systems imo. And of course there should be no surprise that a HYDRA unit
would have its tentacles in the computer controls of the other ACTU buildings.
I could be Zoe. A short Zoe.

May is hann23.
Forget Bobbi & Hunter - they need to give Powers Boothe his own damn spin off show. Also:

*Pretty sure we're past the point of no return on the ol' Ward redemption arc
*And yeah, don't see Ward being content to being co-Chairman of Evil
*Didn't see how they could pull space portal travel, Inhumans, and Hydra all together, but damn if they didn't
*Lash will be back
*Iain De Caestecker is acting in a different show than everyone else and it's pretty amazing.
*If they really are going to go about chasing the Ultimate Evil of Earth, I pray to TV gods they deliver something spectacular visually
*Iain De Caestecker is acting in a different show than everyone else and it's pretty amazing.

This!
"*Iain De Caestecker is acting in a different show than everyone else and it's pretty amazing."

But he elevates anyone he's on screen with too.

ETA: Did he get taller since the show started? I think he's taller.

[ edited by NYPinTA on 2015-11-18 05:29 ]
He does. Everyone on the show is a competent actor, but he's in a whole different class than the others.

ETA: I hope he didn't get taller. I like short men!

Maybe he's wearing lifts, or maybe the angles he was shot from make him appear taller.

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-11-18 05:31 ]
So I guess there's no new episode till Dec. 1. :(
Enjoyed tonight's episode and agree with the comments that Iain is certainly a highlight every week.

I do kinda hope they wrap up Ward's character soon, though. I didn't mind him too much tonight, but I feel I'm reaching the end of my interest in him. I'd be impressed if they had the moxy to actually take him out in the next episode.
I'm hoping Ward finds the thought of dang near worshiping an Inhuman intolerable and makes a noble and fatal sacrifice.
Seems it got glossed over in this discussion, so I'm just gonna point out that our boy, Joss, wrote four episodes of Roseanne---two of which were Darlene-heavy. I'm going to guess they were referring to "Brain-Dead Poets Society" (s2e10), which was freaking fantastic.
Did no one else notice the Buffy reference between Coulson and Rosalind about books being "smelly"?
That's probably why I pegged her as being Jenny Calendar in the truly silly part of the discussion. The discussion about smelly books caused a Buffy flashback.
Ok, something I think no one else has commented on:

Malik tells Ward that HYDRA has been sending their people through the portal for years, centuries, to retrieve - or at least serve - their lost Inhuman leader on the other side (by the way . . . an Inhuman deliberately sent through the monolith into exile on a deserted planet . . . sounds more and more like the Negative Zone to me. Just saying). If that's the case . . . .

Is Will secretly HYDRA?

Fitz hasn't found any dirt on him, but then he wouldn't, would he? HYDRA was a secret organization inside a secret organization. Your best friend could be HYDRA and you'd never know. No records of him being one of the bad guys.

So . . . is it possible he was actually working for Malik when he went through the gateway? Was there any indication that he was hiding his true affiliation from Gemma the whole time? Was he just a clueless innocent, or were the OTHER astronauts the innocents, and he killed them in service to his HYDRA master? Did he actually know the truth about the "thing" out on the planet, but had long since abandoned his allegiance to it and HYDRA because it no longer mattered, and he was lying to Gemma because he was desperate for human company and he didn't want her to know the truth about him? Or was he really just an ordinary astronaut, unwittingly sent along for the ride?

Food for thought.
I already know that wait between December and March will be brutal. Some nasty stuff is gonna go down, I can feel it in my bones. They've been on a roll this season. No weak link episode for me.

And my god, do I love me some baton action. Bobbi's batons are one of my favorite characters on the show. And that's not a euphemism! (I feel since we're on the internet I need to make that extra crispy).
Batman1016: Those are all very good questions. I still kind of think Daniels is the "thing" out on the planet, perhaps banished to the negative zone, and that the real Daniels is dead. But your questions/theorizing may open up a better story arc.

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-11-19 00:22 ]
I forgot to ask earlier: Who on earth is Daniel?
Thank you Nebula1400 -- lovely compliment ;-)

I think we are referring to Will Daniels, the astronaut. I had to look up his name on IMDB. I couldn't remember. I do feel an astronaut vs. caveman reference coming soon....

Batman1016, those are awesome questions. I bet it's going to be a mix of all the above with a heavy dose of angst. And I feel even more strongly today that Ward is playing World Council dude. Maybe he's okay with the portal because he's thinking universal domination? Could Ward morph into a significantly larger evil somehow? What if Ward took fish oil?

I am off to rewatch and see if I catch anything I missed. Finally, Bobbi's batons need a theme song.

[ edited by hann23 on 2015-11-18 17:25 ]
WTF moment: "C colon backslash?" So the ATCU is running its super-secure systems on MS-DOS?!

Regarding Wolf/Ram/Hart, they did make an appearance in Age of Ultron, although I think that was more of an easter-egg for Joss's fans than some attempt to meld canon.

Really enjoying this season, because the writers keep surprising me and the twists are more deeply layered than the average TV show. It helps that they have the MCU to build upon.

"We're cursed."
WTF moment: "C colon backslash?" So the ATCU is running its super-secure systems on MS-DOS?!

Makes sense... nobody's writing viruses for it anymore.
Yeah, I was a little disappointed by "C:\".

Fight scenes were on point last night, though.
I enjoyed the episode a lot. The only thing I would reiterate out of all the conversation are the remarks about the quality of Iain De Caestecker's acting (and this does not mean everyone else on the show aren't excellent actors). That very short, aborted try at physical, romantic connection between Fitzsimmons was made even more poignant with his hissed "We're cursed" for the second time. I'm glad the show didn't go for an easy pairing. Nothing is settled between the two of them.
"C colon..." was even worse than that, because she said "C colon forward-slash" and specifically made a point to say "please tell me you know which one is forward-slash". There's no reason at all on any operating system I'm aware of to start out by typing "C:/", and Daisy certainly should know the difference!

While it is technically true that in modern Windows command prompts "C:/" is permitted, it's just a synonym for "C:\", in which case it wouldn't matter at all whether it's a backslash or a forward-slash. It'd make perfect sense for Daisy to know about that obscure fact, but if she does, she knows it makes not the slightest difference whether Hunter knows which one is forward-slash, and if she's trying to make Hunter believable as a techie, there's no reason for her to be encouraging him to use the weird unconventional syntax. Most people with basic tech knowledge know about C:\ and would assume that C:/ is just wrong...
Iain De Caestecker is a real joy to watch.

I wonder how many people got sucked through the portal while trying to cut pieces out of the monolith?
I wonder if those piece-cutting people got sucked to the blue night planet, or if they ended up elsewhere.
Wasn't this a pretty straightforward A->B type of deal with the only variance being where exactly on B the exit appeared?
They probably waited for the monolith to be liquid, they scooped out a bit and separated it. I wonder if the adding that small piece that's still intact to the parts that are apparently inert could somehow reactivate them? But you know that eventually there will be a second expedition to that sunny place.

BTW, I don't think Will is Hydra. He had too much actual stuff that fit with the mission he mentioned to Simmons to make me think he was a willing sacrifice. I think he was sent as a sacrifice, he and the others just didn't know it.

Not sure what Ward is going to do. He was a follower before, but never really believed in Hydra. That didn't end well for him and he was finally his "own man". Now he's got someone else that's hoping he'll fall in line for, with a pretty spectacular and horrifying mission. Ward might be evil, but does that really mean he'll go along with any evil plan? It'd be nice if even Ward would look at what Malick was offering him and realize it's completely bonkers. What he does... well, that'll be interesting.
The Ashley Madison call-out -- did anyone else get a laugh out of Hunter's hacker-guy disguise being the one who crashed it this past summer ? (that'll never stop being funny to me, by the way -- the media made it out to be such a scandal and talking heads and newspaper columnists were all up in arms about the illegality of it, but...cheaters are doing something illegal by putting their spouse's/partner's health at risk and not disclosing that to them ! And some people found out that they were being cheated on, so that hack was a fucking godsend, IMO. A coup, for benevolent-seeming, Anonymous-style hacks).

Yes, it's sort of ridiculous that a spy wouldn't be put through at least basic keyboarding class or a touch-typing tutorial at home. I took keyboarding in Grade 9 (that's "Freshman Year", to the rest of ya) and it made a world of difference in speed and accuracy. I know Hunter is supposed to be part of the team's muscle, like Bobbie and arguably Mack (seemed like Mack started off as a SHIELD ship tech or mechanic and continued to be a techie and/or mechanic when he joined Coulson in Season 2 -- just because he has muscles doesn't mean he is "The Muscle" -- but he since seems to have joined their ranks)...but he should have been taught. Would come in handy in so many situations. Bobbie, Daisy, FitzSimmons, and others aren't gonna always be around on his missions to do the typing.

The Ward airplane bit was chilling. Anyone think they cut out and cut away from some of the horror due to the Russian plane that was downed in Egypt ? The network did something similar on the first season of 24, in an episode that aired a couple weeks after 9/11 -- Mia Kirshner's recurring terrorist/assassin-for-hire character Mandy blows up a plane as she's parachuted safely away from it, but due to sensitivity at the time, they only showed her and her chute and a bit of the flash of the blast out of frame off to the side and behind her.

Is there any chance that plane survived ? What did Ward say about the plane's pilot and cabin pressurization ? Even with a blown hatch, can't a plane still land safely ? Would they all freeze to death that quickly ?

Also, was that really necessary ? Doesn't Ward have enough funds socked away to rent a private jet to take him to whatever part of Germany he was headed to ?

Breakneck-speed, this episode.

Because Coulson turned out to be wrong (but was completely smart about and justified in voicing his concerns and probing Rosalind with his concerns), a lot of the jabs at Rosalind really hurt. I had no idea where that scene was going, either -- if she was gonna keep it up as long as possible and finally drop the masquerade and say something absolutely chilling as she revealed herself to be Hydra...if she was completely innocent and Coulson was gonna have egg on his face by the end of it...I like the halfway point they went to with it, though, and I'm pretty happy that she's one of the good ones.

[ edited by Kris on 2015-11-19 05:03 ]

[ edited by Kris on 2015-11-19 05:04 ]
And yeah, I wondered if this might mean that Will is Hydra as well (I hope not and they'd have to twist things quite a bit to make that make sense anyway). Maybe some of his team was, though.

I wonder what that blue planet's Inhuman's powers are...a side effect of whatever it is is that it's immortal like Jiaying, but maybe it doesn't have her extreme healing abilities...

And yeah, Ward would be nuts to go along with a plan to bring about Earth being dominated by a [likely] tyrannical Inhuman -- he's a different kind of unhinged. I'm also hoping that Hydra is just a means to an end for him and that he's still marching to the beat of his own drum. I'm ready for his arc, his entire storyline really, to be wrapped up now. Unless they surprise us with something amazing and spin him off in some exciting new direction, I think he's played out. Brett Dalton is having a blast, that's palpable on screen and was especially a joy to watch this week more than in any other episode lately, but...yeah, ready for something new.

I liked the height joke at Hunter's expense and then Hunter's retort to Bobbi. Also, Nick Blood can pull off any funny outfit and track pants are the best look for him (he's handsome all over, but his cute little musclebutt shows off way too awesomely in track pants, dunno if anyone else here noticed).

[ edited by Kris on 2015-11-19 05:08 ]
Huh. Will Daniels. Didn't realize/remember that was his last name. I guess one or two folks DID mention the possibility in passing before I did. Oh well, questions still stand.

Completely unrelated note: Bobbi's new batons. Stark tech? Pretty nifty.
Man this show has just taken off at breakneck speed this season. If only the people who complained about the pacing first season would dip back in. The suspense each episode never lets up. I echo the love for the way the different strands were tied together in this episode. It had started to feel a bit as though there were too many plotlines, trying to service all the different characters while sacrificing cohesion, and then bam, they're all tied together in one horrible Lovecraftian design (with distinct resemblance to a ramshead I might add).

It's funny I was ready for an end to Ward, just a short while ago, but he was back to being evily fun this week. I'm willing to keep watching to see where he goes next. Great callback to his pyromaniac days.
No end to Ward, please. I want him to be the Terminator who keeps on ticking; the interesting thing should be seeing him getting more and more evil--it has been great so far, and I'm not tired of it yet; maybe every once and awhile a 'fake out' chance of him turning it around. I guess (to continue with the cross-show identifications game) I seem him as the Lindsey of the show, except even more evil. And it might be cool to see Ward somehow end up getting the 'deathlok' treatment and actually becoming an evil machine at some point. Or at least metaphorically. Ha ha.
"I guess (to continue with the cross-show identifications game) I seem him as the Lindsey of the show, except even more evil." -barzai


What if, ultimately, Fitz does get to kill him after all.

Lindsey Ward: "You kill me? A flunky?! I'm not just... Angel Coulson... Kills me! You don't... Angel Coulson..."
Ward = 50 150 Shades of Evil.
re: Ward and airplane, chilling but probably not the least bit realistic. But I'm OK with that for AoS.

First, without oxygen, passengers (and presumably pilots, if not warned or prepared) would be unconscious from hypoxia within seconds. They probably would not recover consciousness in time.

Second, those doors are very secure. An explosive charge big enough to take out the door would certainly cause significant structural damage.

Third, just the overpressure from the explosive, followed by explosive decompression, would probably wreck the airframe anyway. That's pretty much what happened to Metrojet.

All of which would have taken out Ward, too. But I'm Ok with Ward being a Terminator (nice idea, @barzai!)
First, without oxygen, passengers (and presumably pilots, if not warned or prepared) would be unconscious from hypoxia within seconds. They probably would not recover consciousness in time.

The breathing masks would have descended, which would probably last long enough for the pilot to make an emergency landing or at least descend to an altitude where breathing is possible. Depending on how high an altitude they were at, most of the passengers would probably pass out, but not the pilots, who have special pressurized oxygen masks. Once the plane gets down below 30,000 feet or so the passengers would start to wake up with no permanent damage. Ward was wrong... suffocation would be a more immediate problem than freezing.
ok I don't think anyone's still around for this but I'm actually 100% convinced I just figured out what's going to happen next and I want to get it down for bragging rights later ;)

So HYDRA's goal since the beginning of time has been to get this whatever it is, I forget what they were calling it, the evil thing back through the portal. SHIELD are the only ones who have ever brought anyone back through. SHIELD are currently working to get someone else back through. Will Daniels had an encounter with the evil thing and may or may not be himself. (I have no opinion on whether he's HYDRA or not aside from that.) So FitzSimmons succeed at getting Will back, but what they get back isn't Will-- they've just done HYDRA's work for them and unleashed hell on earth (or whatever chaos). Someone gets killed by the thing (please let it be Lincoln please let it be Lincoln though I suppose Andrew is a good contender as well since he's going to be up in the middle of things... maybe he could die redeeming himself by saving someone [Melinda] even though he's Lash or something), midseason cliffhanger, massive amounts of guilt and trauma to FitzSimmons to follow. (I expect a "we really are cursed, I told you we were cursed" somewhere in all this.)

Say what you will, I'm convinced. Now to see what really happens, but it's a really good theory right? RIGHT?!
I think it would be more interesting for me if Will and Hydra's god were brought through the portal. Then there would be an even further monkey wrench in the Fitzsimmons' relationship. Will, in person.
They made a point of showing Will walk away fine after Simmons left so they are different beings. I expect both will come to Earth.
just because he walked away doesn't mean he's himself! I picture it initially as a kind of "is Giles the first" situation-- but him and the thing both coming through works for me too, we can have whether or not he's HYDRA be the mystery. Ever since his offscreen maybe encounter with the evil I've had some suspicions about him being himself though-- the angst potential of bringing him back and him just gradually being more and more off, but hey! He's been through a lot! Just give him time! but then...

but essentially I think FitzSimmons will bring the thing through and someone will die and they'll feel REALLY GUILTY and it will come between them etc
aphasia, I'm assuming/predicting that Malick's interest in SHIELD's success with the portal means that Ward will be tasked with acquiring that capability. Which then means that Ward will have to go after both FitzSimmons (for their research) and Daisy (to get the smaller monolith piece to resonate properly). Ward will of course take a sick pleasure in accomplishing these tasks... perhaps the only enticement he has to submit to Malick's authority.

Open questions for me: is the small piece of the monolith in Malick's possession large enough to create a portal that will accommodate full-body transport? There are (I think) 3 blocks cut out of the monolith. Perhaps they will all have to be located and reunited? Or perhaps just the one smaller block can be united with the broken remains in SHIELD's possession to restore the monolith?
SHIELD's portal disintegrated into ash. My guess is Malick will have enough smaller pieces to open a portal which Fitzsimmons will want for Will. But Daisy, Mack and Lincoln will protest at the risk of bringing the Inhuman monster over, with Ward running interference with Lash to hurt May, Bobbi & Lance; so Coulson's struggling to keep everyone together. In the end both may come out though Will could be controlled I guess, or was secretly Hydra all along.
To add to Dusk's theory, then Andrew/Lash will come in handy in defeating whatever Big Bad comes through the portal, because he isn't going to hurt May, Bobbie, or Daisy. Lincolm, on the other hand...

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-11-21 20:15 ]
To add to that, they think they finally have Ward down until he shocks everyone by swallowing some fish pills and cocooning just like his little brother, Daisy's new boyfriend!
Dusk, Malick only has the one piece that we know of. The SHIELD team does not even know that piece exists (so far as we know), and it seems unlikely that Malick would share that info with them. So I don't see how Simmons will know to want it.

If SHIELD does manage to learn about Malick's piece of the monolith, then maybe it would play out as you describe — they would almost certainly try to get it from him rather than let him keep it for his own purposes, regardless of any intent to re-open the portal themselves.

But if Ward manages to capture Simmons and bring her to Malick, she might be talked into working with them if there's a chance that it will bring Will back. Then it would be Simmons' dilemma whether/how to recruit Fitz and Daisy to assist. All three of them have attempted to kill Ward already; would they put that aside to assist Simmons?
With both sides wanting to open a portal I think it inevitable SHIELD will find out. Malick sounded like he knew where the other pieces were since it was Hydra's portal for so long. Based on how network TV works I suspect they'll open in in two episodes as a cliffhanger for the break.

When SHIELD does find out they'll probably try to steal Malick's piece(s). If Ward caught Simmons then she'd probably work on it both to live and to get Will back. Daisy wouldn't like it but she would open it if Simmons were a hostage or something.

[ edited by Dusk on 2015-11-22 02:07 ]
I think Ward will be working very hard (secretly) to make sure whatever is on that planet does NOT come back through that portal.

He has no particular reverence for Hydra's mystical history, and he definitely does not want to be a second banana to some entity that will be too powerful for him to have any leverage with. He wants to be Hydra's top dog, not a minion of Cthulhu or whatever.

Malick doesn't seem like he's the kind of person to want that, either. Why would sociopaths at the top of the command chain want to invite someone in more powerful than they are to rule over them?
Ward might not worship it but might think he could use it against SHIELD. Malick sounded like it was almost a religion to him.
The likely reason Hydra worshiped this thing would be because it had godlike powers. That's true of some of the Inhuman royalty like Black Bolt. But I very much doubt they'd be introduced on the TV show... they're feature film level Big Bads.

In any case, I don't think this entity would be likely to fall under the control of the likes of Grant Ward. Ward may be arrogant and megalomaniacal enough to think so, though.
I like the idea of the minilith not being big enough to transport a person. How handy! You could do all kinds of experiments without having to worry about being sucked through!
You could use Pym Particles to shrink someone down small enough to go through the mini-monolith.
@AndrewCrossett Possibly true but what could you bring back ?
Possibly true but what could you bring back ?

Information on what the entity is on the other side. Unless it has some way to perceive the presence of living things, it might not notice someone that small spying on it.

You could also put something through the portal that might allow Will to shrink as well and come back through the portal. You could put a rolled-up Ant Man suit through it, though the helmet would be a challenge.
Okay, the team of Scott Lang, Hank Pym, and Hope really need to connect with S.H.I.E.L.D and lend their expertise and technology, because that solution is awesome and is a crossover I'd like to see.

Though they may be wary of SHIELD due to the Hydra inflitration that became public after Cap 2 and also that Hydra guy in the Ant-Man film (I forget whether they became aware of his deceit, or if it was just we the audience who witnessed that).
Late to the party, but I really liked this episode. I'm glad they're not shying away from how painful/complicated things are with Fitz and Simmons right now; this really brought the emotion in a way the relationships on this show don't always (at least for me). There's so much more set up with them than we've gotten with, for instance, May and Andrew, which makes it much more painful and compelling to me.

I hope Will remains basically decent, because that's more complicated and interesting than him coming back wrong, IMO. I'm also delighted by the Ram logo; the Wolfram & Hart nod makes me happy, even if that's all there is.

The Hydra reveal was kind of interesting, though it didn't blow me away. I'm curious to see where they go with the interplanetary stuff. Hope we get a lot more of that -- I'm really liking the monolith storyline in general.

And I loved the stuff with Coulson and Rosalind. I like that she turns out to be basically a good guy, who has unknowingly been working with Hydra -- and I like that Coulson's (reasonable) suspicions have destroyed something that could have been real and good between them. That scene was painful, and it raises some interesting questions about what this job has done to him as a person. Hope we'll see some introspection from him as a result.

Also, shoutout to Mack for being the voice of reason. MORE MACK PLEASE everyone should listen to him. And to Bobbi, for being a badass.

One minor complaint: I like Hunter, but his slow typing felt really implausible. Did no one think to check that before they sent him in as a fake hacker? And did he not think to mention it?? It just seemed ... unprofessional on everyone's part. :-/ But that's a fairly minor complaint. Overall, solid episode.

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