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December 08 2015

(SPOILER) Discuss Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 3x10 "Maveth". The winter finale was written by Jeffrey Bell and directed by Vincent Misiano. Agent Carter premieres January 19, and Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. returns March 8.

Present! Here! Who's gonna die tonight? Taking wagers now!
Ward cannot live enough is enough!
Maliek Gyera and maybe Andrew
I'm afraid at least one "good guy" regular will die tonight.
My guess the good guy will be Mack. Second possibility would be Coulson. I sincerely hope it's neither Fitz nor Simmons.
I'm scared!

PS Hi.
Mack better not die but then who?

Ps Checking in
Ward. Ward can die. I'd be OK with that.
Damn it. Nice try, Fitz.
Ugh! They said it! ;)
Oh, that's all...
My money is on Simmons.
Hydra monument looks Stargateish.

That was a great exchange between Ward & Fitz.
Cthulu!

Hey, everyone.

I vote Lincoln turns bad. They can't kill Mack, can they? Please not.
Is Mack wearing eyeliner? Not that I'm objecting.
Sassy Fitz is my favorite Fitz.
How are they going to do this with folks on other planet?

I'm worried.
Ooooooooooooo.
Sunfire, agreed. I love sassy Fitz.
Well that was quick! Although Will could be canon fodder...
I love Fitz - he's awesome. He's playing Ward. And Ward always had a teeny soft spot for him. I think.
Lincoln and Joey are kinda expendable, but that packs little emotional baggage if we lost them. Andrew that might be a loss, after the fake out from a few weeks ago.
It's gonna be Mack or Fitz. I want Ward to be stranded on the planet.
Fitz is not going anywhere! Shush!
What, Coulson got knocked out ... Oh, I see.
Coulsalind lives!
Oh, that's horrible! Poor Phil.
Nebula! Ixnay on Fitz dying!
Oh no. Don't make promises.
If Fitz dies that's it for me.
Maybe the thing will die? I'd be ok with that too.
Yes, Mack, keep mocking the Inhumans. That's so Director-y of you...
Simmons has never been without her shiv. Wow.
Oh, lord, Will just said the equivalent of "I'm going home!" He is d-e-a-d.
If I say it, it won't happen. Except if it does.
Still iffy on the show's approach on the Secret Warriors, reminds me of most of the Potentials arc on Buffy, and I find that a bit annoying.

[ edited by Numfar PTB on 2015-12-09 03:18 ]
LOL. Love May.
Please Will don't be evil. Please Will don't be evil.
I still think Will know a lot more that he's shown, or he might be a sleeper even. Mellie style.

[ edited by Numfar PTB on 2015-12-09 03:20 ]
Doesn't the hell beast smell blood? Or am I smashing verses?
Fitz is taking this surprisingly well.

Does she let her friend out for monster back-up or will the monster kill her friends?
Will is knowingly Hydra.
I see an epidemic of Heart Attacks on the Hydra Side.
I agree @Nebula1400.
hann23 - yes about the blood.

I'm pretty sure Will's going to be evil or a sleeper. Sigh.

9:22 pm prediction: Fitz or Coulson gets left behind and everyone has to go back again.

[ edited by javelina on 2015-12-09 03:24 ]
Andrew is awesome!
Release the Lash....
Andrew on the loose can't be good.
Please Will DON'T BE EVIL.
Hunter is definitely the Spike of the show.
Nice teamwork!
Uh, oh! Joey's gonna die!
"I'm bulletproof!"

Oh man, no. I like him.
Ward must die. Ward must die. Ward must die.
Nooooooooo, he let him talk! Oh Phil. *sigh*
New Nickname "Bulletproof" ?
Joey got lucky.

Leaving Lash out is not a good idea...

Go Coulson!
Now that's a pistol whip Coulson.

Coulson does have a rather grave resolve about this mission.
Finally Joey gets to do something! Maybe he could hang around for a few episodes?

As for May absorbing and then shrugging off the news about Andrew - I love May.

If "It" can smell blood surely the dead Hydra agents would be nummy treats?

[My comment about May was way premature, wasn't it? She's going to take Andrew out.]

[ edited by javelina on 2015-12-09 03:37 ]
Uh, don't interrupt Simmons when she's about to tell you some really bad news!
Nobody wants to hear about your feelings, Ward.
Why is Ward still talking?
@Sunfire, no kidding! Ward needs to stfu.
Maybe Lash's whole deal is he has an overwhelming instinct to kill the potential Hydra Inhuman army.
Narcissistic much, Ward?
I'm not sure Lash did. They were gooey.
Now Jemma will be riddled with guilt.
True, NYPinTA. Lash didn't melt people like that. He pulled out their hearts.
Just shoot him!
Mack just uttered the line of dialogue that means Hydra monster is going to come through.

Edit: And then he said I am ready to die. No, Mack!!

[ edited by javelina on 2015-12-09 03:43 ]
Haha. Hunter! Oh no, Mack! Not Mack.
Oh no Mack. This is going nowhere good.
Lincoln is yet to show his dark side Andrew talked about. I fear for Jemma for letting Lash out.
*whispers* Please Will: Don't. Be. Evil.
Will's the monster, right? He's the ancient god.....
Will is totally It.
Yep. Will is the monster. I KNEW IT!
Wait. What. Noooooo!!!!
I hate being right sometimes.
Ok, so, during commercial: why would It want to evade Ward and his minions and end up with Fitz all alone?
So we have our Seasom's Big Bad.
Will's now out of the running for Jemma's affection.
Crap. Now Jemma's going to have Will guilt and Inhuman guilt.

Very brave of Mack but not very smart either.
I didn't want Will to be the monster. Drat.

I feel better that Daisy is with Mack.
KissingToast - Lash won't hurt Jemma. WillMonster, however ...
There is a lot of funny ("Whedonesque") dialog in this ep.
May's gonna kill Andrew.
I'm thinking the god was just going with who it thought had the best chance to get it out? And needed to play along with Fitz because he thought he was Will?
@Sunfire - I think It understands that Fitz is most likely to locate the portal.
I'M NOT OKAY WITH THIS!
Javelina- I just have a bad feeling about Jemma.
Fitz vs. an ancient god? OK.
Run, Phil! Run!!!!
Are Daisy and Mack going to jump through?
Oh man. Ward becomes The Thing?
Why the hand, y'all?
It can't be a simple, happy ending...
Not Fitz, yo. NOT. FITZ.
You think it's inside Fitz?
One of them? It looked pretty crispy but ...
Nebula1400, I don't know! I'm so scared it might be. But now I'm thinking maybe Phil as he was walking by...
These ads need to go faster.
Ward is Hydra in the flesh.

[ edited by garyyager on 2015-12-09 03:59 ]
Phil is Giles killing Ben is Glory.
We haven't seen the last of Ward.
SuperWard is a go.
He's now officially Angelus. Wardgelus.

Nebula- I also thought of Giles and Ben.
Ward is the really Big Bad now. Malick is toast, and not the kissing kind.
So basically Ward is Glory now
Gross; Ward's all hydra-y...
Oh shit. Brett gets to stay on the show since It is a Body-Snatcher!
I agree Ward felt a purpose and he becomes the next dark one. The snake transfers to him and award recovers by eating all the dead soldiers.

Coulson is broke, though, and Mack and he will clash.
Ah. Boy, did they elide over what happened in the chamber.

No more Ward but more Brett Dalton - cool.
So do we think Ward it still in there or is this the all new Monster God character?
So is anyone else wondering why It didn't wait until after It was through the portal to tip Its hand to Fitz?

Edit: I mean, that wasn't just a slip of the tongue, that was, like, two paragraphs of exposition it laid out.

[ edited by Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner on 2015-12-09 04:10 ]
Ward is become Illyria
Coulson is kind of scary now, himself. Ward's not even human(or Inhuman). He's an evil god. Or a wormy thing.
Wait, Numfar, are you saying that Ward has some kind of relationship with Glory?
Brett Dalton is immortal!

I think Malick is going to live to be less happy with what he's seeing.
Wait, so, Ward is Venom? Or Carnage? :P
So, the Big Bad is a Goa'uld that came through the Stargate?
I don't think it meant to tip it's hand. Although, I do wonder if who it is in has anything to do how it behaves?
@Dusk My guess is Ward has left the building. YMMV.
That episode did not rip my heart out as much as the hype led me to believe it would, although I totally thought Fitz was a goner for most of it.

Not that it didn't rock my socks.
KissingToast wins a prize!

Wait. What episode of Angel had a wormy thing jumpy from body to body? Or am I mixing up shows from 13 years ago?
javelina-I think Coulson was leaving behind the murder weapon (his robot hand crushed Ward's chest), as an act of closure.
Second ep of Angel Season 1. I remember cause they played Touched by VAST, and I flipped out. :P

Speaking of music, how awesome is Bear McCreary?
Gread episode.Definitly felt like a finale.Love that we get our cake and eat it too.Ward finally killed by Coulson but Brett Dalton gets to stay on the show for a bit longer atleast.Shades of Fred dying but Amy getting to stay on as Illyria.

And Lash is still out there too.

[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2015-12-09 05:01 ]
Lash faces off with Wardra.
How did I end up with a Captain Hammer shirt? I just opened a package sent to me, and it has a Captain Hammer shirt in it.

Sorry. Off topic, but Captain Hammer shirt!

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2015-12-09 04:19 ]
And not as brutal as Illyria because Ward was already evil.

I'm a bit miffed - I wanted to see how they were all getting through and out. How did they even know that special flying containment cell was there. Did May say something?

Still I enjoyed the episode and pleased Brett and so many others "survived."
I think it's TV writer/editor shorthand, like when people hand up the phone without ever saying goodbye, because it serves no useful purpose.
I am happy to say that I predicted the outcome of Will and Ward's storylines last week although I don't believe that I posted them. Great episode, it felt like a series finale.

I will miss Ward. The show won't be the same without him.

[ edited by eddy on 2015-12-09 04:46 ]
My biggest question at the moment is, if the creature can body-hop, why wouldn't it now look for a body in better condition than Grant Ward's, which has a crushed chest and bullet wounds?
I think maybe it can only take someone after they're dead.
@AndrewCorsett-I took over Will after killing him from I guess bleeding him out through his leg. Maybe it can only body-hop to dead people, or dead bodies are easier for it to control.

Given Will's flashbacks maybe his crew killed themselves because It was inside them and forced them to die.
Maybe, but now that it's in this world there should be no shortage of dead bodies in better condition.
If I'm being honest I was personally a bit ... underwhelmed.

As this show has done in the past, the big action packed "epic" conclusion wasn't particularly epic or action packed. The OMIPOTENT EVIL WHO LAYS WASTE TO PLANETS is really just a schmuck who gets into a tussle, and loses, to our 150 lb lab rat. The dramatic "siege" was shown primarily off screen - Bobbi laying waste to Hydra, and Hydra's imminent coming-through-the-doors-at-any-minute counterattack. Hydra's big vast "Inhuman Army" - do we get to see it, maybe even just look through the 'lil windows at the powers within? Nope - and then they're all gone, taken out by Lash (off screen) Finally, I find Coulson's whole murderous rage somewhat inexplicable. Certainly he's lost people close to him before, without ditching his responsibility to go off on a vengeful quest?

This show does the small beats well - I thought Jemma's reaction at the end was great, and the Rosalind moments were effective. Iain's been crushing it all season ... But man, when they try to go big they almost always stumble (IMHO)

Good time for a break - looking forward to Agent Carter!
I guess the Hydra Monster can only jump into dead bodies. Maybe it was going to jump into Fitz after it killed him, but Coulson provided it with a different body.
I thought Joey stepped up pretty well.
I'm glad he survived, though he may yet be a red shirt.
Joey looks like a redshirt, but then again he is the only gay character on the show.
He shouldn't have plot armour just 'cause he's the only gay character (and the first in any of the major big screen superhero franchises, if I'm not mistaken -- which is long overdue and kind of huge) in the same way that Mack and May shouldn't have plot armour just because they're the only visible minority main characters -- if it makes sense for the story and packs the most emotional punch, they're toast. That said, I don't want any of those characters to die. Love May, love Mack (and feel they've barely scratched the surface with that character, plus if they ever wanna dabble in more relationshippy stuff like they did with Coulson and damn near every other main character this season, Mack's sexuality hasn't even been hinted at at this point and he'd make a hot pairing with Joey -- guy can dream, right?). And so far, I at least like Joey and hope he sticks around. Bonus: he has a cool and extremely useful power.

If making him an occasional Mike Peterson/Deathlok-style rarely recurring character is what keeps him from being offed, I'll take that (Deathlok's another character I hope they keep until show's end, if not outright transition him into one of the SHIELD-heavy films like Cap or Avengers).

How did the alien (or is it a 3000 year old Inhuman, like Malick claimed?) slither way up to Ward's body fast enough, and then run down the slope and dive through the portal, during that one minute they had until portal's closure ? Come on...

But then, the timing was wonky for most of the last third of the episode...the breakneck pace didn't wholly work in the ep's favour, IMO. Felt like they skipped over or rushed through a lot of explanations and emotional beats that could've strengthened the show overall. The limited running time was the enemy here.

Like TallMichaelJ, I was a bit underwhelmed, especially after the outright excellence of the past couple eps and the season as a whole. I'll try to see this less as a "winter finale" and more just as another regular ep on the way to bigger conclusions toward season's end or at least February Sweeps. Hard to top Season 2's midway point anyway, with the beauty (of Skye becoming) and tragedy (of Trip dying).

Even Ward's end was underwhelming, but that could be (a) because they dragged him out for way too long or (b) intentional on the writers' parts because that's not really the end of Ward ? Who knows how much of his personality they intend to use with the creature and how much of his memories and his habits will show through...

[ edited by Kris on 2015-12-09 06:37 ]
@Kris-Fitz left his tablet where the calculations for the next portal were. It knows how to navigate through the planet and could have just read the computer for the next portal. Part fanwank but also plausible IMO.
Oh and everybody who wants comic intel, here's the theory popping up in the chatter about IT. Look at the list of footnotes and you'll see a theme:

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Hive_%28Earth-616%29
HailWard is about a million times more dangerous now. I can't say I'm sad he "somewhat" survived, because I think Brett Dalton has had a difficult job pulling off, I'm not even sure how to describe it, coolly-distracted evil sociopath(?), and he's very good at it. I wonder how or if his persona will stay the same. I'm sad Will didn't survive but at least we have that one perfect standalone Jemma-centric episode. I liked that the crew got a good resolution this time because in their business they never know who is the next to die. And poor Coulson. Sometimes a man's work is never done.
Guilt trips aplenty in this ep:

Jemma - for releasing Landrew and getting all the Hydra bad guys and all the Inhumans (in their gel-pack stasis pods) killed

Leo - for having to kill Will-It in order to (he thought) prevent It from getting through the portal

Phil - for not killing Ward when he had the chance, several times, loving and losing Roz, and then busting Ward's chest in front of Fitz

Melinda - for not being able to find & stop Lash

Damn, Coulson went all Giles on Ward! Even standing over him the same way. (I kept saying "Use the hand!" and then he did.)

I'm glad Wormy didn't slither up his leg - he's had a hard enough time lately. What with getting stabbed through the heart w/Loki's scepter, being brought back to life and all that horror, nearly losing his mind, totally losing his hand. And glad it wasn't Fitz that got It'd, either, 'cause he's been through enough already, too.

One thing I need to say about Ward: "Why can't you just be a good boy and die?" Or, as Anya put it, "Why! Won't! You! Die!?"

So...imagery. Hydra's symbol is the octopus. The glimpses we got of It looked like someone in a ghillie suit, suggesting tentacles. The thing oozing out of Will's burnt head (And what the *hell* did Fitz shoot him with?! A flare gun??) looked wormy/tentacle-like. The squirming under Ward's skin was very wormish. So...does he turn into some kind of...giant sea slug or something? A leviathan? A kraken?
I admit I was kind of hoping the Will twist wouldn't be that he was dead but that he was a Hydra loyalist. Look forward to the contortions trying to figure out how Ward will be redeemed now.
I found this episode good but rather depressing. Seems an odd choice to break on for 3 months tone-wise.
ShadowQuest, I think it was a flare gun?

Oh BOY, what an episode! As satisfying as it was to see Ward finally die, I am totally into Zombie/Death/Ancient Evil/Hydra God Ward...

Very sad for Simmons though.
I so knew Will was off! And then when he so easily killed those guys - THAT IS NOT WILL.

Coulson literally crushing the life out of Ward. Surprised? YES. Finally. I was kinda happy too but I knew hydra monster was a body snatcher and would take Ward's body especailly after Coulson left his murder weapon. It's like a calling card! "Dear hydra god please return my murder hand to me. Thanks. Dark!Coulson" Though for a super scary inhuman - Fitz was able to take him down.

Simmons did a stupid thing letting Lash out. I bet I wasn't the only one screeming "don't be daft Jemma! helpless inhumans waiting to be murdered in their sleep."

Other highlights Hunter's hand waving, Mack Da Boss (super hot), Joey is bulletproof (LLAP buddy!).

ps. Someone kill Lash before he changes his mind about inhumans and he becomes Hyrda!Ward's General.(though Lash will probably try to kill him instead)

RIP Will and Andrew. And I guess maybe Ward. Ta, Coulson's soul too - but guess we all knew he got back wrong from Tahiti.
Well, in the second half of the season I hope they don't delay showing us why we should be scared of "the creature." So far all I see is a thing that can body-jump, but also is limited by its host body, has to resort to its fists in order to harm people (and none too successfully) and is quite susceptible to bullets and fire. Science nerd Fitz went mano-a-mano with it. So far, I don't find it very scary at all.

I'm sure they have something in mind for it, but it would have made for a more effective mid-season finale to give us some glimpse of that.
Exactly right AndrewCrossett - I felt all the hyped beats for the finale ... "THE ANCIENT BEAST WHO LAYS WASTE TO PLANETS!!", along with "SIEGE ON CASTLE HYDRA!", and "SEE the INHUMAN ARMY!!" all were extremely anti-climatic. The show - which I like a lot - does have a tendency to under deliver when it sets itself up to go big
It almost feels like they ran out of budget, with so much stuff happening off-screen. Time could also be a factor, cramming too much into one episode.

There could be a couple things going on with It. Malick could have blown things out of proportion, that It was not a god-like being at all, just an Inhuman who's legend grew over the years into Godhood. The creature might be limited by the body it inhabits, but it is now in a super skilled fighter's body. I agree that this creature doesn't seem like a big deal, yet.

I also don't know how he got out of there. That weakened the reveal.

Good parts: Lots of red herrings. Joey's "death" and subsequent reveal of his power kicking in was very cool. Mack's big hero speech also tickled the "I'm not going to make it" nerve, I'm super glad he's still around.

As angry as Fitz was at Ward, was he actually that shocked that Coulson killed him? Perhaps the fact that Coulson killed a defeated, helpless opponent was a factor.

A shaky dismount, but otherwise an excellent season! Here's hoping the flesh out Joey and Lincoln more in the next season, though the cast of the show is getting realllly big. Don't ask me who I'd cut, though. ;)
@Kris Predating Joey is Sara Lance on Arrow, who is bisexual. And Captain Singh on Flash, but he's pretty durn peripheral. A new gay character debuted on Arrow this season, too.
Yes, the CW is definitely working gay characters in, quite smoothly and naturally, which is great.
Gay character on Jessica Jones, too. Assuming Jessica Jones gets a renewal, hoping that character comes back as well.
If only they hadn't hammer-smashed the possibility of a Peggy Carter/Angie Martinelli ship.
Cool, thanks for the info, guys. I did specify "first gay character in a big screen superhero franchise" (which AoS is a part of/an extension of, as is Jessica Jones), whereas Arrow & Flash are their own self-contained TV-only franchise. But good to hear The CW's game (had heard that there's a gay werewolf & vamp couple on either Vampire Diaries or The Originals, so not surprised some are showing up on their superhero shows as well). Dunno if Disney/Marvel would have the balls to make a main or supporting gay character in one of the MCU films any time soon (enough execs worrying about box office and worldwide reception, understandably...depressingly), especially since they'd likely have to alter the sexuality of an established character and risk backlash the same way they've taken risks with changing established characters' races...so I'll take what I can get in the TV spin-offs/extensions for now.
So I actually thought the shocker of the ending was that Coulson really did kill Ward, and the Cthulla monster was defeated, and the cliffhanger was, what will they do to surpass that for the second half of the season.

But Ward - the gift that keeps on giving.
Honestly, I think I would have preferred if when Coulson had killed Ward, it was actually a mercy killing because he couldn't leave Ward on that planet alone but he couldn't make it to the portal with injured Ward, or stuck Ward, or something not mobile Ward. Not that Ward didn't deserve being stranded. I think I was rooting for that, in fact. But Coulson getting his revenge wasn't really that interesting. Him realizing his actions in his need for vengeance were stupid but having to kill Ward anyhow, would have been. At least to me. Because no good deed goes unpunished, as we see now that Ward is the Hydra Monster incarnate now.

I do hope that this Ward is a completely different entity and that the Ward we know and either love, or love to hate, is gone. Because an entity that destroyed an entire planet doesn't need the memories of petty revenge against the team as motivation to want to take them out and by now it's kind of boring. Plus, I think Brett Dalton (who I do adore, even if I loath Ward) could be awesome as some ultimate uber baddie.
"I'll be damned... Tatooine."

Love Bobbie's definition of "covertly."


I did not mind the off-screen action. It's fun to see Bobbie walking forthrightly into a room of 8-10 enemy agents, hearing the noise of the battle, and wondering right along with Mack, "Are we supposed to follow her?" I like a well-shot fight/action scene but they take up time, and there were a lot of individual characters and their separate agendas to deal with in this episode.

I do wonder what actual power the It can manifest. A wormy thing that takes over dead bodies is an old device (The Hidden e.g.) and possession is familiar in the Whedonverse (Ben/Glory and Fred/Illyria have already been mentioned), so there has to be something else to justify the existence of Hydra and the reasons why the Kree banished the It in the first place.

Granted (no pun intended), if the It can only possess dead bodies, then it starts off with some physical handicaps, which explains why Fitz was able to at least stay even with it in physical combat. And the interactions between Fitz and Will before the reveal indicate that the It is able to retain the memories and personality of the dead person, so some of Ward's character and motivations will still be there for the rest of the arc.

I don't think Coulson or Fitz will be all that bothered by how Coulson killed Ward... I saw it as a form of mercy, given Ward's injuries, to kill him rather than abandon him to die slowly. My fear at that moment was that Coulson would want to bring Ward back to justice and they'd all miss the portal.

Finally, wordless looks between Fitz and Gemma really should not be able to reduce me to a blubbering mess. I've gotta look into that.
I wouldn't call crushing Ward's chest with his artificial super strong hand a mercy killing. Snapping his neck would've done the job, too. This was personal. Coulson did to Ward physically what Ward did to Coulson emotionally.
I do wonder what actual power the It can manifest [...] there has to be something else to justify the existence of Hydra and the reasons why the Kree banished the It in the first place.

Jemma said that she sensed "It" was an entity that once had great power, but lost it... and that's borne out by the fact that It was so physically weak when Fitz and Coulson encountered it. I'm thinking it draws its power from life force... human and plant. That's why when it arrived on Maveth, it had the power to kill off the entire civilization and turn it into a wasteland. But once it killed off all the life there, it had no further source of power and became weak. That's also why Hydra kept sending it sacrifices over the centuries: to keep it alive long enough to figure out a way to bring it back.
Oh, were we given a name for the blue planet ? Maveth ? Or was that the Hebrew word for "death" translated for us ?

"Maveth" reminds me of Selina Kyle's/Catwoman's assistant in the 90s' Batman: The Animated Series (no clue if she was from the comics).

tomg is right -- It did seem to be exhibiting memories and personality traits of Will while in his body...so we will still be seeing a lot of Ward showing through. A Ward-flavored It, at least.
@Kris: it's both. The planet and the translation of the Hebrew word for "death." Well and it's also the name of the episode. :)

http://www.logosapostolic.org/hebrew-word-studies/4194-maveth-death.htm
http://marvelcinematicuniverse.wikia.com/wiki/Maveth

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