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April 05 2016

Discuss Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 2x15 "Spacetime". This episode was written by Maurissa Tancharoen and Jed Whedon. It was directed by Kevin Tancharoen.

Good evening! Hope everyone is well tonight!
"The most astonishing episode of the season!" says the voiceover leading into it. Now now ABC, don't undersell it.
I keep thinking that Hive-Ward could have used a closer shave. He's oddly not as imposing with a 5 o'clock shadow.
A JoMo episode with ktanch directing, must be a important one.
I'm going to pretend that Coulson has a crush on Mack. Because duh. I do now too.

wait. Hydra are like this now?
Oh Malick. Ugh.
Hey y'all! Why are colorfully dressed damsels pouring Hydra wine?
I take back that thing I said about Hive-Ward not being imposing with the gruff. Cuz damn. He's creepy.
The Hive drinks wine?
Hive wears Neo's coat and power-walks in slow motion. He's gonna rule the world!
There were colorfully-dressed damsels? What show am I watching?
All 3 sneak peeks at once, interesting.
Time for some wibbly wobbly....
I like this. It's an intriguing approach to fixed future events.
"You're off the team." LOL!
I miss Hunter and Bobbie....
Aw. Lincoln and Coulson bonding!
That is a CRAPPY superpower!

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2016-04-06 02:27 ]
Rogue plus Cassandra, worst power.
Numfar, I miss them too! Talk about wanting to change the past ( nice line, May).
Whatever happened, happened.-Lost 2009, "Ward" 2016.
Wouldn't it be faster if May just was May? She doesn't have to map out and duplicate what Daisy was going to do?
Shit!!! Interruption!!!
I don't fucking care about the GOP Primary!!!! Fuck ABC!!!!
NOOOOOOOOO my show has been replaced by primary coverage. I was experiencing nerdy joy before that. Adored the practicing scene.
I am going to throw things at the TV now. Could they just use the scroll instead of inflicting George Stephanopoulos on us?
It's back. Same scene?
At least my not-GOP candidate is winning...
Was kinda hoping Malick would die during the interruption.
Lash=Bloody Lincoln?
Are we still all in the "Lincoln must die" fame of mind?
Not interrupted in Canada. "Ward" made Malick crush the CEO guy like Coulson did to him.
Aw, didn't see that coming. :(
I *think* we rejoined the same scene without losing any time from the show.
They couldn't interrupt the commercials for that non-news. Bloody fuckers.
@Nebula, ;P

But... I like Lincoln. Honest.
I don't really care, either way re: Licoln, NYPinTA. He does have "red shirt" written all over him, though.
If they can morph Lincoln into Hunter I'll be delighted. He's showing more snark these days.

And Daisy V. HiveWard? What could go wrong?
Lash, please take out Hive.
I still feel a bit sorry for Andrew.
It's one of these Daisy action scenes that KT does so well.
Of course Coulson would never shoot Daisy!
Oooh, @ReaverTam, that is a great idea!
Ha! I *thought* Coulson was shooting past Daisy and not at her.
Coulson wouldn't be shooting at Daisy. He'd be shooting at Skye.
Only if they're human... He's after Daisy.
Well this isn't sad at all... *crying*
I didn't want that to happen to the future-seeing guy.

This is the strongest episode since the show returned from break.
"Sure is creepy like Ward." Powerful truth, Daisy.
ReaverTam, I like the way you think!
So...Did Malick see Ward kill his daughter?

Daisy saw the flashforward, two months to go now.

Going to give Baby Robin the vaccine?

I give it 3 episodes before Lash breaks out.

[ edited by Dusk on 2016-04-06 03:19 ]
Every time Kevin Tancharoen directs an episode, we get good action scenes.

So... another middle-aged villain in a powered suit? Kind of a rehash of John Garrett, isn't it?

I was hoping that IV solution might result in Lash being rational and in control and a potential ally... maybe like Illyria with Fred inside her... but it doesn't look that way.

No Mack in 2 of the last 3 episodes. Henry Simmons must be shooting a movie or something.

Another little bit of the space shuttle premonition. Whose arm was that?

The show ended right on time despite the 2 or 3 minute news interruption. That means they must have truncated the commercial break. Amazing.
Maybe Henry Simmons was shooting last week's Shotgun Axe episode, and may be playing a bigger role in a future episode.
I thought tonight's episode was amazing.
Easily the best episode in quite some time - not sure what the logistics are, but somehow only KT finds the time to craft some very artfully shot images and action. Nice lil' moments throughout that more than made up for some nagging items that distracted.

If I were to guess what the finale is pointing towards, someone on the team manages to get HiveWard & Malick on the spacecraft to jettison him/it away from Earth. Maybe Lash who implied they may need him on their side at some point. I can envision big heroic sacrifice kinda thing
AndrewCrossett said:

"Another little bit of the space shuttle premonition. Whose arm was that?"

That was the exact same flash-forward as the first time we saw it, actually. Nothing new, unfortunately.

This episode made me think back to Season 1, when Coulson was in disbelief of The Clairvoyant's apparent, well, clairvoyance (and he was right -- Garrett just had inside info, not any actual powers). But then Raina ended up with the power to catch glimpses of the future and so did this new guy. If Licoln is right and Inhumans' powers aren't random...I guess we can presume that the world might need back-up bodies of some of the powers, in case an Inhuman dies early in life or is never activated.

That Lash will be used in the final battle against Malick and Hive's stockpile of Inhumans ? Writing's on the wall. And/or Lash is the solution to Hive. One of Lash's energy blasts to Hive's head should do the trick...and then someone just has to notice the slug slither out of the dead body this time (no one knows that the Maveth monster/Hive is a slug) and incinerate it.

Couldn't tell if HiveWard took personal affront to the fact that Coulson killed him/Ward (and the manner in which Coulson did it), but this may have been our first glimpse at the host's brain/memories effecting Hive.

I don't miss Bobbi and Hunter yet -- I loved them (Bobbi because she's a great character, Hunter for his humour...and both for being ridiculously hot eye candy), but I like that their absence gives the rest of the cast more screen and development time. Skye/Coulson father/daughter moments ? They're back. Lincoln being likeable ? Wasn't asking for that, but hey -- bonus ! May awesomeness and some genuinely affecting scenes with Andrew ? Great, I do like them and it had been a bit too long since his last appearance. Nice few bits of Fitz and Simmons stuff too. The villains and guest characters had ample screen time as well.

I prefer a less crowded show. Tonight's episode more closely resembled the Agents Of SHIELD I eventually fell for in mid-to-late Season 1. I hope this is a return to form, I wanna love this show wholeheartedly again.

[ edited by Kris on 2016-04-06 05:23 ]
The show is definitely better when it doesn't have dozens and dozens of characters in it. That said, I'd be more than okay if they kept Mack but ditched Lincoln, who is the boringest pointless white guy character ever to boring.
Okay, where do they put the credits for this show? I swear, I watched the entire teaser and the first part of Act 1 and didn't see any.
I remember seeing the credits. They start right after the first commercial break. Sometimes they're spread out over several minutes.

I could have sworn the last part of the space shuttle vision, where we see somebody's arm in a SHIELD uniform, was new to this version. I honestly hope that's Yo-Yo Rodriguez because if it's not, she's probably going to die.

They didn't show us what Malick saw when Charles put the touch on him. I wonder what it was. At first, I thought it was gonna be like:

MALICK: "Ha, your power didn't work on me. I didn't see my future!"

DAISY: "That's because you don't have one." *blasts him off the side of the building to his death*

Sadly, that's not how it went. I kind of wish they'd get rid of Malick now and let Hive be the sole Big Bad. Do we really need another middle-aged megalomaniac in a powered suit?

A Hive/Lash battle should be interesting. Hive seems to be immune to the powers of normal Inhumans, but Lash is specially bred to kill Inhumans. Could it be he was seeded specifically, millennia ago, to be an anti-Hive secret weapon?

I presume that IV treatment Andrew got is going to have *some* effect, or they wouldn't have bothered including it as a story point. Maybe it will enable Andrew to maintain some level of control? Perhaps we haven't seen the last of Blair Underwood yet.

Interesting that Hive is the only Inhuman we've seen so far who is completely non-humanoid in his natural form.

I was surprised that Hive used the word "me" when talking about how Coulson had killed him. I'm sure Ward himself is dead and gone, but what if Ward's memories... the remaining human memories from when he was still able to feel affection for people... will come through and serve as an Achilles' Heel for Hive. Even more shades of Illyria. Maybe Ward will get that closure after all.
Lincoln and Coulson bonding helped me like Lincoln. Sneaky writer, saw what you did there. Especially the "you're off my team" bit and Lincoln threatening Phil if he hurts Daisy. Did I see a proud gleam in the director's eyes?

Who else thinks Lash is "designed" to take out Hive!Ward? *raises hand*

Wish we find out soon what Malick saw that made him scared! It must be super bad because he's such a d*ck.

I really hope Ward!Hive doesn't have a grudge on Coulson because Phil killed his vessel. That seems beneath an all powerful inhuman.

I actually liked everyone's scenes in this episode. Everyone had a chance to shine. Maybe Bobby/Hunter moving on was a good thing.

Just don't lose Mack!!!
So, info is coming in from their network monitors, and it's Phil Coulson who's tapping the keyboard and delivering the exposition while Daisy is just standing there taking it in? Weird.

Thank the stars, I wait to watch next day via Hulu... no interruptions other than the regular ad breaks.

Good use of non-linear storytelling... resembled some good Doctor Who episodes with the partial flash-forward information. And also good job of tying a lot of separate threads together to make this episode matter. Hoping that perhaps the vaccine has a delayed effect on Lash.

Whatever Malick saw in his future vision, it obviously scared the crap out of him. I guess a powerful exoskeleton isn't really enough (it did seem to me like he would still be vulnerable to a good pistol shot).

It seemed like the team was interpreting at least parts of Daisy's vision as being first-person viewpoints (e.g. where she gets "shot", the wife's tears in the interview) but other parts were not (bloody bloody Lincoln was not observable by Daisy in real time). So maybe it's Daisy and not YoYo in the spacecraft? I wonder if she can tell?
Yep, finally a decent ep since the break.
The group shot after the security footage of Ward . . . Phil's look is PRICELESS! That was some top-shelf non-verbal emotional expression acting. "Or maybe this is all pointless and nothing we see here will make any sens-"WARD- No Signal. And Phil's face is all " . . . ok, WHAT in the entire FU-?!?"
I liked how Fitz and Simmons instantly knew what the deal was when they saw Ward's face. "That's something else."
Yep, even Lincoln too! Just the whole group of them, mass Heroic BSOD. But just the sheer, blank, "Duh . . . whut?"-ness of Phil's face, that was the best!
HI all! I caught up! And watched yesterday's episode again half way through a second time.

I'm with everyone else, I too missed Mac but not Bobbie and Hunter as much. I do love Bobbi and Hunter but I treasure Mac. I now feel that Mac is the audience accessibility character in our super powered show. He's normal. He has fears. I can relate to Mac.

This week's episode was excellent. Time, if not done well, can make an episode weak. Team Shield nailed it. I especially loved Fitz's Science Friday time dimension lesson. It was one of the best explanations that I've seen on a show. Did he do a "told you so" at the end? I'm going to continue rewatching in a little bit. I'm clueless on the shuttle.

I love the idea that Lash is the anti Hive. That's going to be fun. But I don't want to lose Brett Daulton. He is just so amazing right now. Can we keep Hive powered down in some ice somewhere? Or a cube? Maybe give Hive the juice?

I'm still iffy on Lincoln. He really didn't grow on me much this episode. I was hoping for him to completely disobey Coulson's questionable kill order. His partial disobeying left me feeling "meh."

I'm very much invested in how the Inhumans story is being handled this season. They are delving into some excellent parallels with current fears and anxieties about "others" in our various cultures. I suspect that more will be unpacked during the final season episodes. I do worry that CACW will not reach such depths and I'm going to be frustrated.

Plus, I just want everyone to be friends. No place for hate!

Next week, my kid is going in for a scheduled and expected surgery, so I'll be out of touch and catching up again. Hopefully soon I'll be here to join all of you live watching in two weeks!
hann23, I hope your offspring's surgery goes as well as possible.
hann23 You are absolutely right about CA:CW. Their issue is oversight and control while AoS is more concentrated on proliferation and tolerance.
I'm still iffy on Lincoln. He really didn't grow on me much this episode. I was hoping for him to completely disobey Coulson's questionable kill order. His partial disobeying left me feeling "meh."

The scene where Lincoln casually tells Coulson he'll kill him if he shoots Daisy really didn't work for me. Just last episode Coulson said he couldn't fully trust him yet because he was there for Daisy and not for SHIELD. If I'm Coulson and Lincoln threatens to kill me over Daisy, I think my reaction would be other than that little smile.
Great point @AndrewCrossett. I didn't like that line either. It's not team thinking. What if, gods forbird, Daisy became infected with some horrible horrible evil that warranted a kill shot? Would he defend her? I don't think that will happen to Daisy but there could be a very interesting misdirect for Lincoln in the future.

I'd like to be wrong on CA:CW. The Russo brothers are very talented. I'm really intrigued by the overarching themes in Shield right now and I'm not feeling the investment in the big movie.

Thanks for the kind words for my kid @mozzarellademon (love the handle!). Routine thingy on a Tuesday of course. All things of ick on a Tuesday - except Shield.
AndrewCrossett said:
"I presume that IV treatment Andrew got is going to have *some* effect, or they wouldn't have bothered including it as a story point. Maybe it will enable Andrew to maintain some level of control? Perhaps we haven't seen the last of Blair Underwood yet."

Damn...your theory sounds we might be in for an end straight out of Buffy Season 2's finale. Is Lash gonna revert to Andrew just as May (for whatever reason) is forced to kill him ?

If they do go there, hopefully they'll put their own twist on it. I wonder if Jed watched Joss' shows before he started working on them with Dollhouse.

One thing we know for sure -- they won't repeat themselves with a "May tries to retire" story again. She either comes out of this changed and/or broken but the stronger for it...or May's toast. But probably not, 'cause it doesn't feel like this series would kill off the mom or dad of the group until the very end. If anyone, I can only see Phil getting a permanent end.

[ edited by Kris on 2016-04-10 02:29 ]
I doubt the IV treatment will be a factor. They did it because if they hadn't, a lot of people (including me) would have called it a plot hole. The moment they caught him I expected them to give him the vaccine. I didn't expect it to work, but it would have been ridiculous for them not to try it.
Late to the party again, but this was a much stronger episode than the last couple. I really enjoyed this one. I liked Charles, I liked the can-we-change-the-future angle of the plot, I liked the fight choreography, and loved that final shot of the robin.

But HiveWard needs to actually do something soon ... there's been a lot of menacing talk, and very few actions (except for that gruesome thing where he eviscerates people and leaves bloody skeletons behind, which, ewwww). He just seems weirdly passive right now for someone who's supposedly the most powerful being on the planet. I feel like I've been waiting for the overall plot to kick into apocalyptic overdrive since the mid-season finale, and instead it's just kind of spinning its wheels.

But despite that, this episode was really solid on its own, and I feel like it's also moving things into place for some major plot developments. Hopefully we'll see HiveWard's actual plan set in motion soon.

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