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May 16 2016

Buffy the Vampire Slayer voted fourth greatest TV drama of the 21st century. Not bad for a show that has been off the air for over a decade (unlike the other shows in the top 10).

I'm glad to see the show continue to be recognized. It will be a sad day when people's memories only go back as far as Breaking Bad, Mad Men and The Wire when talk turns to the modern Golden Age of Television.

Personally I think of Buffy as much as one of the last great shows of the 20th century though I can see the case for it as one of the first great shows of the 21st. I also think of her as the greatest superhero introduced in the 90s.

Ultimately this was just a vote contest, and Buffy still has fans that show up to vote. Yay. But I think that list is pretty suspect. I don't think The Night Manager will live long in the popular imagination. As many outstanding qualities as Hannibal had I got bored before the end because serial killers have become a tedious subject, no matter how artfully presented. (I am so done with the trope of serial killers also being brilliant installation artists working with corpses.)
I had no idea "Hannibal" was that popular. Found the show tenacious at times, myself, but do have a severe fondness for this interpretation of Lecter. Graham on the other hand should've been killed ages ago.

Also, I rate "Angel" over nine out the top ten shows on that list. Including "Buffy".
Random internet polls are just measures of which particular fanbase happens to have paid attention to that particular poll, aren't they? I don't begrudge anyone their interests, but I would personally be more interested in focusing on news and commentary about Whedon stuff, rather than reader polls.
Torture Porn at #10?
I'm not sure how much faith to place in these voters.
I thought Hannibal was an interesting show with some great acting but found it terribly plotted, which pains me to say as Bryan Fuller is a pretty narrow second on my list of favorite people who make television (Wonderfalls is perhaps the greatest non-Whedon show I have ever seen. My dvd set is pretty much warped by how many times I've rewatched it).

I'm also not a fan of GOT. Admittedly I haven't actually watched past the first two or so episodes, but from the general knowledge about it alone makes me not want to watch it. If the *only* thing people talk about with your show is how many characters are slaughtered each week then you aren't doing a show correctly in my opinion.
And that goes with Walking Dead as well, from what I hear fans of the show don't even really like the show. I haven't heard a single positive thing about the show even from die hard fans, in terms of story telling or character development. Pretty much the only reason people watch it is because "Zombies!"

Breaking Bad on the other hand was an amazing character driven story with amazing character development and execution. It easily slides into the top best shows I've ever watched.

I wasn't even aware that The Night Manager was on long enough to be on such a list. I don't even know what it's about, who is in it (although I think Tom Hiddleson might be?) or on what station it airs. I think I've only seen one magazine ad for it a month or two ago and was under the impression that it hadn't even debuted yet. But perhaps if it's made that big of an impression that early, maybe its worth checking out? Or maybe it's been on a lot longer than I'm aware of and have been unaware of the rock I've been living under?
I just saw The Night Manager (six episode story) with Tom Hiddleston, Hugh Laurie and Tom Holland. Great cast and enjoyable story based on one of John le Carre's books.
Only 4th?
This list is definitely very faddy, but it is notable how much Buffy sticks out among shows that ended much more recently. Clearly the fanbase is still very active online.

@TangoDH
Digital Spy is based in the UK, and The Night Manager was shown here a couple of months ago. I don't think it's going to be making a list like this in a few years' time, but that's true of some of the other shows too. Also, each to their own obviously, but I think sensationalist media coverage of the number of deaths in Game Of Thrones gives an entirely false impression of the show - there's plenty of great storytelling and character development in it, and anyone who's only talking about how many deaths there have been each week is missing the point of the show entirely. Before I watched Thrones, I was under the impression that it was just a barrage of sex and death, when in fact it's one of the most satisfyingly slow-paced shows on TV. Which isn't to say the show doesn't have problems of course, but in my opinion it's in an entirely different league to The Walking Dead.
Unfortunately, the fact that two of the worst shows of the 21st century are in place 2 and 3 renders this poll meaningless. (Though I guess it proves some surprising facts about popularity.)

I only hate-watch The Walking Dead at this point, and Game of Thrones has gone from a good show that was fairly competently adapting Martin's epic fantasy series which I'm a big fan of, to an OK show that was hit and miss, to absolute garbage full of illogical plots, inconsistent characterizations, lack of continuity, and offensive sexist, racist and homophobic cliches, which it has descended into since season 5. The sad fact is that the showrunners are below average writers (see also Wolverine: Origins, David Benioff's another hack work), and the show was only good when it stuck to the source material, but since they have completely diverged from the books and started making more and more of their original storylines and dialogue, it's become unwatchable. At this point, it's like a really bad crackfic.

Both these shows prioritize shock value and random, pointless deaths and gratutuous violence to logic, narrative coherence and character arcs, and it's really sad that so many shows are trying to imitate them due to their popularity.

24 (place 10) was also a terrible show, though to be fair I only saw seasons 1 and 2.

@RobynH: And at #3...

[ edited by TimeTravellingBunny on 2016-05-18 12:59 ]
@allthingsaverage: "Also, each to their own obviously, but I think sensationalist media coverage of the number of deaths in Game Of Thrones gives an entirely false impression of the show - there WAS plenty of great storytelling and character development in it, and anyone who's only talking about how many deaths there have been each week is missing the point of the BOOKS entirely. Before I watched Thrones, I was under the impression that it was just a barrage of sex and death, when in fact it USED TO BE one of the most satisfyingly slow-paced shows on TV BEFORE IT BECAME JUST A BARRAGE OF RAPE AND DEATH."

Fixed that for you.
@TimeTravellingBunny
Admittedly I haven't read the books, but I think there's been problematic stuff in every season. Sometimes it feels to me like readers of the books automatically give Martin-approved violence a free pass, while original-to-the-show violence is instantly labelled gratuitous.
Even though these polls are all about the fanbases rather than the shows, it's nice to see Buffy's still so popular.

I'm hesitant to go into the GoT discussion because I've read all the books but am only up to Season Four. However, isn't violence that's been added to something when the story can clearly function perfectly without it the definition of gratuitous?
True, but these criticisms of Game Of Thrones have increased since it went off-book and there's no longer any basis for comparison.
@allthingsaverage: People don't complain because there's violence. I'm really fed up with that Straw Man argument. The problem is that storylines no longer make sense, characterizations are inconsistent, and there's no rhyme or reason to anything that's happening - and the violence is there just for its own sake, for shock value, which is what "gratutious" means. In fact, the plot and characters are getting warped just so they could get the "shocks" in. What they did with Sansa last season is the best example, they even had the character say in the latest episode that her marrying Ramsay made absolutely no sense, which is the same thing many viewers had been saying all along. So why the hell did they have that absurd plot? Because they thought it would be so cool if Sansa got raped by a psycho in her family home, and they violated all logic, her arc and several characters' characterizations to make it happen.

There IS basis for comparison. They didn't have to go off-book. They started diverging in season 2, and really went off-book last season, which was still supposed to be covering the released books - even some of this season's storylines are ostensibly covering the released material (the Ironborn stuff from A Feast for Crows), but they bear no resemblance to book storylines. Even when they are hitting some plot points, the themes and context are completely different.

[ edited by TimeTravellingBunny on 2016-05-25 11:11 ]

[ edited by TimeTravellingBunny on 2016-05-25 11:11 ]

[ edited by TimeTravellingBunny on 2016-05-25 11:12 ]

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