Discuss Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 4x18 "No Regrets" - Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

@AndrewCrossett Really!! Oh man oh man do I hope so! (And they can reveal he's Inhuman and his power is Invisibility so when they go back to the real world they can find him and bring him back permanently......!) ;P

NYPinTA | April 18, 21:13 CET

The Hydra scientist was in S2 when Simmons was undercover. Nice touch plus that formula is Cal's.

And Dusk no I hate this sort of thing even when it's this well done.

JDL | April 18, 21:14 CET

Ha! Even Mace hates his weird doofy logo.

Dusk | April 18, 21:15 CET

Ha. Nevertheless, she persisted.

NYPinTA | April 18, 21:16 CET

Ha... "Nevertheless, she persisted."

AndrewCrossett | April 18, 21:16 CET

Elizabeth Warren shout-out! W00T!

javelina | April 18, 21:16 CET

Nevertheless, she persisted!

mnspnr | April 18, 21:16 CET

Nevertheless, she persisted.

Nebula1400 | April 18, 21:16 CET

Ninja'd!

AndrewCrossett | April 18, 21:17 CET

Daisy isn't going to fall for this, please?

javelina | April 18, 21:18 CET

Radcliffe commentary FTW.

Dusk | April 18, 21:18 CET

You ARE the father!

Dusk | April 18, 21:23 CET

And, we have Fitz's dad.

Simmons already realizes that Mack is in for a rough time when he finds out the truth...

AndrewCrossett | April 18, 21:23 CET

Someone mentioned it last week, but I can't remember...who else was it that Mack called Sparkplug?

mnspnr | April 18, 21:24 CET

Mack used to call Lincoln that. Because of the electricity superpower.

[ edited by NYPinTA on 2017-04-19 03:25 ]

NYPinTA | April 18, 21:25 CET

Lincoln. Still weird here.

Dusk | April 18, 21:25 CET

Oh sure blame Canada.

Dusk | April 18, 21:27 CET

Bakshi News.

Dusk | April 18, 21:27 CET

Nope. Still not buying it. Sorry.

NYPinTA | April 18, 21:33 CET

YESSSSSS!

NYPinTA | April 18, 21:34 CET

There we go.

Dusk | April 18, 21:35 CET

Why give May the injection now and have her waste part of her hour on a plane ride?

AndrewCrossett | April 18, 21:36 CET

Burrows & Tripp too. Nice.

[ edited by JDL on 2017-04-19 03:37 ]

JDL | April 18, 21:36 CET

AndrewCrossett, I was wondering the same thing! Maybe it needs to be absorbed or something?

NYPinTA | April 18, 21:37 CET

TRIPP!
Nuff said.

RobynH | April 18, 21:37 CET

They don't trust it in liquid form outside of their sight imo.

JDL | April 18, 21:38 CET

Unless they kill him again. Then I'm going to flip some things.

NYPinTA | April 18, 21:38 CET

Uuhh I'm not sure how to feel about Ward.

Dusk | April 18, 21:41 CET

They will kill Tripp. It's VR Tripp. They all have to die to get the SHIELD Scoobies back in the real, comic book world.

Nebula1400 | April 18, 21:43 CET

OR they fix the world and Tripp is left there like River Song in the Library.

NYPinTA | April 18, 21:44 CET

Compliance Callback.

Dusk | April 18, 21:44 CET

Very 1984.

Nebula1400 | April 18, 21:45 CET

Those kids are getting the Ludovico Treatment from A Clockwork Orange.

AndrewCrossett | April 18, 21:47 CET

That, too.

Nebula1400 | April 18, 21:48 CET

Random observation: Fitz's dad is played by the same actor that Harry transfigures into to get into the Ministry of Magic in Deathly Hallows.

BlueSkies9 | April 18, 21:49 CET

Fitz Dad is named Alistair. Kinda sounds like Mad Eye Moody's first name.

Dusk | April 18, 21:50 CET

Is this going to be May's turning point?

NYPinTA | April 18, 21:52 CET

Looked like Whitehall using the Faustus technique.

JDL | April 18, 21:54 CET

RIP you were a good Blocker.

Dusk | April 18, 21:54 CET

Thanks for the memory jog NYPinTA and Dusk. I was thinking Lincoln but wasn't sure.

mnspnr | April 18, 21:55 CET

It's going to be painful when May and Fitz wake up and realize what they contributed towards.

Dusk | April 18, 21:56 CET

Quake music in the background!

Dusk | April 18, 21:59 CET

Damn... I was hoping we'd get to see Daisy blow out the wall.

Interesting that Mace was an Inhuman in the Framework but not in the real world. Maybe that was the regret Aida fixed for him?

My fear is that Framework Fitz has too deeply internalized his father's influence. That will stay with him even if they bring him back to the real world.

I'm afraid we've lost him.

AndrewCrossett | April 18, 22:01 CET

Oh man,great episode tonight.Seeing Tripp again was great.Plus meeting Fitz's dad and how not having him in the realy world made all the difference in the man Fitz would be.

The shocker was Mace's death.I knew we would be losing someone by the end of the season but it was still a shocker(and we could still lose more).

This though seems to be big turn for May though.

The Clockwork Orange scene was creepy.

And yay to Daisy getting her powers in the tag.

[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2017-04-19 04:05 ]

Buffyfantic | April 18, 22:05 CET

NYPinTA, yes, May turned! But I wish we'd gotten to see Daisy emerge.

javelina | April 18, 22:05 CET

After this, even if Fitz comes out of it being his old FItzSelf, Jemma is never going to trust him again, knowing that he is capable of being a murderous, fascist dick tater. Or maybe Simmons will have to kill Fitz in the Framework, not knowing she's killing him in the real world.

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2017-04-19 04:07 ]

Nebula1400 | April 18, 22:05 CET

Of them all Fitz has had the most extended alteration to his life path. He's now at least partly responsible for 2 real deaths in the Framework on top of the damage Aida and the LMDs have already done...he's not going to walk away unscathed.

Dusk | April 18, 22:07 CET

Simmons is probably the reason for Fitz's (positive) altered life path.

Nebula1400 | April 18, 22:08 CET

His father abandoned the family as a kid and Fitz never felt good enough for him. The regret fixed was he stayed and Fitz got his approval...but that combined with Hydra winning (and Aida's crush) made him this.

Dusk | April 18, 22:10 CET

So who gets the honor of crushing Aida in a hydraulic press, Terminator style, in the season finale?

I vote for Mack.

AndrewCrossett | April 18, 22:21 CET

I have a feeling May comes out of this muchly healed and Fitz just the opposite.

JDL | April 18, 22:25 CET

I'm not at all sure Fitz comes out of this at all.

I can envision the season ending with a shot of Fitz standing staring out of his office window in the Triskelion as the Framework shuts down, and then him flatlining in the real world.

AndrewCrossett | April 18, 22:27 CET

May and Coulson overall should be able to better themselves once they get out. Fitz not so much and I don't know if Mack will leave...the show seems to want us to think the Framework lives matter on some level.

LMD-Radcliffe arguing Mack can't know if something cyber has a soul or not seems eerie now.

Dusk | April 18, 22:35 CET

Fitz will live. It's more painful that way.

Grack21 | April 18, 22:57 CET

I'm worried about yoyo, for no rational reason.

Grack21 | April 18, 23:10 CET

Fitz will live, but he will start showing characteristics of Framework Fitz.

Did we ever imagine Fitz being the Big Bad?

Nebula1400 | April 18, 23:40 CET

I did last week. :(

Grack21 | April 19, 01:19 CET

Yes, you did say that, Grack21.

We must all mourn the end of cutie Fitz.

Nebula1400 | April 19, 01:46 CET

Fitz still has his mother's characteristics in the Framework. Even if he comes out of there with this new personality or a scramble of old and new, he's not lost. There will be drama, of course.

Goodbye Mace. Welcome May. Hello Trip but only for a short while, how dare you do that to us, show?!

Huschel | April 19, 04:19 CET

There's always the possibility that they'll come out and not remember that much, like waking up from a dream. They'll remember bits and pieces and they'll fade eventually. (Edit: Although I'm sure the knowledge of how Mace died will obviously stay with them, because you can't argue with the fact he's dead. I mean, I get that there will still be guilt, but I'm just saying that what they experienced in the framework might not have the same impact an actual life- growing up, school, job, choices- lived does.) And I'm wondering if not only does their one regret shape the direction of what is happening and who they are in the simulation, but also subconscious attitudes and feelings? Coulson was feeling unworthy of his time as Director, so his incarnation is as far from a power position in SHIELD/Hydra as possible. May might have a lot of anger towards Inhumans after what happened to her ex. Fitz was feeling like a monster for helping to create both Aida and the simulations she was building off... so now he's an actual monster in the framework. :/

[ edited by NYPinTA on 2017-04-19 14:53 ]

NYPinTA | April 19, 08:47 CET

The memories won't fade. No Whedon show would ever give the characters that kind of an escape from the pain.

One thing occurred to me... Aida/Madame Hydra told Daisy she could bring back Lincoln, despite him being dead both in the real world and the Framework. If she has the power to bring back dead people in the Framework, can we really be sure Mace is permanently dead? We saw him flatlining in the real world, and then Aida walked up and pushed a button. We assumed she was just turning off his monitors so she could dispose of the body. But what if she was actually rebooting him?

I have no idea WHY she would want to do that, unless she still has some kind of attachment to her programming for protecting SHIELD agents. (That didn't seem to work out too well for Burrows.) But I also have no idea why she was keeping Mace alive in the real world but trying to kill him (and succeeding) in the virtual world.

I have a feeling Aida and Madame Hydra may have diverged into two different people, and may be at cross purposes here.

AndrewCrossett | April 19, 09:45 CET

Aida hit a button that said Disengage.

Aida is separate from her Madame Hydra avatar though I think they both agree getting what they want is more important then the agents. She already broke programming by killing Simmons' avatar after all.

Madame Hydra can just storm the base whenever she wants so she must have been letting Mace live out his Inhuman/Director fantasy until he actually threatened her because of Daisy and Simmons. Aida can warp the Framework whenever she wants though it's unclear if she could actually kill Daisy or Simmons herself. Technically the pilot killed Mace on Fitz and May's orders.

Dusk | April 19, 09:56 CET

It's not clear to me how much button-pushing the real-world Aida is doing to alter events inside the Framework. According to her (perhaps unreliable) conversation with Skye, she simply removed one (or more maybe?) regret from each of the scanned-in personae... everything else that transpires within the Framework is just the algorithms working their unnatural courses. She didn't invent/program the motivations for Mace to be a SHIELD agent acting in opposition to Hydra, nor did she invent a Hydra-ruled world, nor did she kill Jemma's avatar counterpart. All of those things happened as inevitable or deterministic outcomes of the changes in the characters' lives once those regrets were removed.

And we don't yet know all the rules. The standard trope for a persona/consciousness that is trapped in some alternate reality while their physical body remains elsewhere is the old standby: if you die in the dream, you die in real life. But the Whedonverse has lots of practice upending standard tropes. (That said, I will not be surprised if real-world Mace is truly dead, and that 'memories' of Framework events will be retained once the characters are removed from the Framework. Because consequences.)

tomg | April 19, 10:28 CET

Aida straight-up killed Burrows in the real world, so clearly her programming doesn't prevent her from directly killing humans, or even killing SHIELD agents.

She may have avoided just killing Mace (and the others) in the real world because it's all part of her plan for world-building within the Framework. But it's starting to go wrong for her, whether she knows it or not. As a direct result of letting Mace die "in game," May has now turned, and she's freed Daisy and given her her Inhuman powers, and they will most likely take Radcliffe when they bust out of the Triskelion.

The preview for next week has Fitz being addressed as the new head of Hydra, so I wonder what happens to Madame. Aida may be losing control.

AndrewCrossett | April 19, 11:25 CET

Aida killed Nathanson to protect Radcliffe's plans with May which he called a 'gross oversight' and wanted to correct it. Burrows fell out of a plane in the real world.

The possible conflict is Radcliffe designed the Framework as a paradise for himself and people he cares about. That includes the main cast, as he was against killing real May in favor of making her happy in the Framework. Aida wasn't supposed to be able to directly harm Radcliffe but his talk of people living on in the Framework gave her a loophole.

It's not clear if Madame Hydra has the same restrictions or if she could just grab a gun and shoot 'Skye' in the head. She could have easily had her executed in the Hydra base thus eliminating the real world threat too; but didn't. Now she claims to want to know where the real world versions are but Agent Piper, Elena and some background agents aren't as much of a threat; the simpler thing would be to kill Daisy and Simmons in the Framework-unless she can't directly kill them because she's still supposed to protect them, 'give them what they want.' Fitz, May and the pilot killed Mace so that's another loophole.

[ edited by Dusk on 2017-04-19 17:38 ]

[ edited by Dusk on 2017-04-19 17:39 ]

Dusk | April 19, 11:38 CET

I have a feeling if the world were destroyed, we would be left with Radcliffe floating in space saying, "This isn't how I meant for it to happen."

AndrewCrossett | April 19, 11:54 CET

"The memories won't fade. No Whedon show would ever give the characters that kind of an escape from the pain." Probably not, but for me personally the idea of putting Fitz in a world to be evil just so he can angst about it when what he does in the framework is really beyond Real World Fitz's control feels cheap to me. Which is probably why I'm having such a hard time with this particular story line and questioning everything. I still don't really get why Ward is there. And there seems to be an idea that everyone in the framework has one regret removed, including Ward. But that doesn't really make sense seeing as Ward wasn't "scanned" or whatever. And how can Tripp be there? Where is Aida pulling these people from to populate the world? Are things being added as they go? Was Tripp born out of them beating on Skye? Like, did she remember him dying when she went through that transformation and he's a regret that Aida decided to fix? Not that I'm not happy to see him. It's just... huh? And I don't buy Aida's schtick that everything in the framework is simply a result of wiped out regrets.

NYPinTA | April 19, 11:54 CET

@NYPinTA: "For me personally the idea of putting Fitz in a world to be evil just so he can angst about it when what he does in the framework is really beyond Real World Fitz's control feels cheap to me."

Wasn't that pretty much Angel's entire story, though? Being made to suffer for awful things he'd done that really weren't his fault?

I don't think Aida is making this world... the Darkhold is, and Aida just gets to personalize it a little. I don't remember it being said that Ward had a regret removed. As far as we know he's just computer code. Dead people like Ward and Trip and Burrows apparently can be alive in the Framework based on the vagaries of the Butterfly Effect (which is NOT just the Bahrain incident, I don't think), just as people who are alive in the real world (Simmons) can be dead in the Framework.

There are an awful lot of theories that can be made about what the deal is with the Framework. I hope the writers explore some of them rather than just ending the season with "yep, it was a wacky computer network and now it's shut down."

AndrewCrossett | April 19, 13:56 CET

@AndrewCrossett, Angel's circumstances are a bit different. But I do agree that Angel without a soul is a completely different entity than Angel with, as was even stated by Buffy herself and it's weird people forget that..., but it was still his body and his memories, which I don't think will be as clear for May and Co. as they're in an altered state. I mean, really, how many dreams do people recall as if they were waking life and let them affect them accordingly? In fact, I really hope they walk back on Mace being dead just because he died in the framework, because that's well, silly. I just don't think people really die in their sleep if they "die" while dreaming. He'd just wake up or the "dream" would change. Or.. whatever. I'm getting off topic... It's just different, somehow. Like porn and art? I dunno. Also, Angel was kind of a jerk before he became a vampire, so I can see him taking on the guilt of what he did while he was one. Fitz? Not a jerk. The complete opposite of a jerk. So evil Fitz just doesn't compute, evil dad or no. And we've had several seasons to find out who he is, so the switch, (although probably a blast for the actors to play out), doesn't feel as natural. Its, ugh, gimmicky? (The ugh is because I feel like a jerk for thinking that.)

As for the regret thing, I was reading an interview they did with Brett Dalton and he implied Ward had a regret removed, or was behaving as if he had, and I've seen it commented pm om other places, so I meant the idea everyone has had a regret removed being weird to me since it doesn't seem what the show was saying. I should have been more clear on that one.

I do think Aida has more control then she keeps letting on. But she too seems to be making up a lot as she goes along. For instance, I don't understand why she's keeping May, Phil, Mack, Fitz, and (was keeping) Mace alive. She didn't need to in order to insert Radcliff or Agnes. So why bother keeping them? Obviously she can get to them any time she wants, so why not kill them and get rid of the bodies and have one less liability to deal with? Unless she turned them into batteries or something...

"Dead people like Ward and Trip and Burrows apparently can be alive in the Framework based on the vagaries of the Butterfly Effect (which is NOT just the Bahrain incident, I don't think), just as people who are alive in the real world (Simmons) can be dead in the Framework." Yeah, but where did the knowledge of them come from? Who are all the not-previously-connected to our heroes too? The kids in Phil's class? Everyone on the street when Jemma was on the run and got a lift from that girl? I just have too many questions... Alternate reality is seeming the better option the more I think about it. It's the only way all those people that they all know (and don't) to pop up and would make it more likely that they all would remember their adventures on "the other side" if everything happened while they were all in actual physical bodies. (Course, why doesn't the Skye from that world wake up in Daisy's body in this world and cause problems in the mean time? That'd be interesting...) But then the temptation to keep going into the alternate world to see people they lost will be a danger... and be the reason they close it completely after they save the day, each other, that world, etc. OK, I'm just rambling now.

NYPinTA | April 19, 16:54 CET

Because the Framework is a product of the Darkhold, it could be more than just a VR program. It could be a door to a parallel dimension, or a doorway to a parallel world. The determining factor is the Darkhold, and we still don't know the extent of the knowledge it conveys.

Nebula1400 | April 19, 16:57 CET

Overall I've enjoyed this one from start to finish. So far this arc has been quite good.

Some stuff:

- I don't want Mace to be dead. If you need to kill secondary characters, kill Yo-Yo.
- May's turn came a bit abrupt. There's been little to no indication that she wavered in her conviction up until this point. I think there should have been a stage of doubt, first.
- I wonder if there's a specific reason why Coulsen was called 'Wingman'.
- I like evil Fitz and I hate that he's already going tweener.
- I haven't quite figured out why Ward is a babyface in this reality (OR IS HE?). ... Wait. Is he Daisy's regret? He is, isn't he? I love figuring stuff out while I'm typing!
- As much as I love and miss Ward, I would have prefered Daisy's parents as her regret. I miss them (actually it's mostly Cal) even more.
- For some reason, evil Fitz reminds me of a 'Buffy' novel-series where Giles was heel.
- If I were S.H.I.E.L.D., I'd be cautious about trusting potentially brain-washed kids.
- Why the hell would Fitz have May take her juice before starting the plane instead of after her landing? What a waste of valuable time!

EDIT, @NYPinTA:

I don't think Mace "died in his sleep", I think Mace is/was hooked to a powerful - maybe even magical - computer, that can transfer the physical trauma sustained in the VR over to the real world. Or something close to it. I'm not sure if people HAVE to die for real if they die in the framework, or if it has simply configured like that.
Then of course there's the possibility of the framework being an actual alternate dimension (for the mind atleast). In that case it would make sense, that the body dies, once the mind, that's currently far away from- but still somehow attached to it, ceases to exist.

I'd say Aida keeps all of them alive because she's still getting to know herself and her (potential) place in the world(s). Being willing to kill doesn't mean that she enjoys it or that it's her prefered course of action. I don't see her as the typical ruthless big bad. Not yet, atleast. Even her endgame has yet to become clear. She wants a choice, but that can result in many things.

I was wondering about the in-depth knowledge regarding people like Ward, too, for a minute, but then I remembered the Darkhold being this omnipotent tool(/force?), so I guess you can use it to pseudo-explain quite a lot.

[ edited by Sahjhan on 2017-04-19 23:36 ]

Sahjhan | April 19, 16:58 CET

Another amazing episode. This may end up being the best arc the show has ever done, if it continues to be so strong.

Fitz' regret being his father not sticking around and Fitz being changed by his father's bad influence was something I called weeks ago. Like I said, he is the most changed because the divergence happened the earliest in his life, during childhood and formative years. It was hinted in 4.16 when he said "My father always said you need trust to be betrayed".

I figured Mace would die heroically, only not so soon. He's the one person who would certainly have something unambiguously positive to take from the Framework, the knowledge that he can be a real hero. So of course he's going to die.

Fitz, on the other hand, is 100% safe. He's going to have so much guilt, angst and identity crisis to deal with, no way the show would ever miss out on that.

Aida removed one regret for each person she plugged into the Framework. That was her programming. She probably can't kill any of those people, because it would go against her programming. There was nothing in her programming stopping her from inserting herself as an avatar, so she did that.

She did not kill the Jemma avatar, it was a consequence of Hydra winning. Hydra murdered a bunch of SHIELD Academy students and made a cover story about it.

We've known all along that dying in the Framework means you also die in the real world. They said it in episode 4.15. That's why Simmons was terrified of Ward killing Fitz.

Everyone please go and read the quotes from Jed Whedon's interview I posted in comments to episode 4.17. He explained in interviews he gave after 4.15 aired that the Framework is a perfect duplicate of the real world, and that it was due to the Darkhold that Aida was able to replicate the real world perfectly. And while people in the Framework (like Ward) may be virtual copies, they are copies of exactly who they were in the real world. But the circumstances are different, so they may end up reacting differently and making different choices and having different life paths.

They WILL remember everything when they exit the Framework. Jeff Loeb and Chloe Bennet said in interviews at Wondercon that there will be big emotional consequences for everyone.

@NYPinTA: "I still don't really get why Ward is there. And there seems to be an idea that everyone in the framework has one regret removed, including Ward. But that doesn't really make sense seeing as Ward wasn't "scanned" or whatever."
"As for the regret thing, I was reading an interview they did with Brett Dalton and he implied Ward had a regret removed, or was behaving as if he had, and I've seen it commented pm om other places, so I meant the idea everyone has had a regret removed being weird to me since it doesn't seem what the show was saying. I should have been more clear on that one. "

He said no such thing. You are talking about couple of article writers that clearly have no clue how the Framework works (should have paid more attention... if they are even watching the show). The only people who have their regrets fixed are those Aida plugged into the Framework (May, Coulson, Mack, Fitz, Mace). Dalton never said that, they just wrote that and then quoted him saying something else about Ward. And what he said was in fact that he doesn't know how much different Ward's past is in the Framework, because it's not in the script, and that he can only guess. He didn't mention anything about regrets being removed, they just made it look like that by the awkward way they were quoting him.

I don't see what you don't understand why Ward is alive. Ward is alive because of the butterfly effect of the changes Aida made. Same thing for Trip or Bakshi or Burrows being alive. I've been over this multiple times in comments since episode 4.15. Hydra winning, no Coulson as SHIELD agent, no Coulson dying and getting resurrected, probably no TAHITI programme since Hydra won before that, Ward never betrays the team Skye is on, SkyeWard never gets interrupted by betrayal, Garrett is presumably dead so nothing to keep Ward from betraying Hydra, Ward finds out his girlfriend is Inhuman and joins the Resistance, he's got a purpose and mission and someone to take orders from (or he did until the end of this episode), only now it's the good guys. It's really not a huge mystery they need to solve.

"But I do agree that Angel without a soul is a completely different entity than Angel with,"

No, he's not. He's the same guy, only without a conscience. Ditto Spike without a soul or Darla as human/vampire.

How is it "cheap" to have Fitz and others feel disturbed by the knowledge that he could have been a monster if one big thing was changed about his life? Or that other people (say, Ward) could have been 'good' in a different set of circumstances that made them make different choices? That is the opposite of "cheap" storytelling, in my opinion.

@Sahjhan: Aida did not fix any regrets by Daisy. She only fixed the regrets of people she plugged into the Framework, after scanning their brains. Daisy and Jemma hacked in.

That's why Madame Hydra was able to offer Daisy to bring back Lincoln. She hadn't fixed her regret, so her programming allowed her to fix one regret by Daisy now. Of course, she still hasn't scanned her brain, but she was guessing that her regret/wish would be to have Lincoln back.

[ edited by TimeTravellingBunny on 2017-04-20 00:30 ]

[ edited by TimeTravellingBunny on 2017-04-20 01:19 ]

TimeTravellingBunny | April 19, 18:29 CET

See this is why you never copy other peoples source code. :P

Grack21 | April 19, 18:31 CET

@Sahjhan: "May's turn came a bit abrupt. There's been little to no indication that she wavered in her conviction up until this point. I think there should have been a stage of doubt, first."

It was the children that did it. Children are May's soft spot, in the real world and the Framework. Her fixed regret was that she was able to save the child in Bahrain rather than kill her. So when she realized that she had been working to facilitate the harming of children, the cognitive dissonance caused her Framework programming to bluescreen.

Mace walking away from her during the fight, and the sound of Coulson yelling orders at her might have jarred something loose as well.

Clearly she isn't getting memory fragments yet... she needed to ask Daisy if she was really an Inhuman... but Aida made a big miscalculation by letting her get near that indoctrination center.

AndrewCrossett | April 19, 21:23 CET

I got those cameos I was asking for ! Even a picture of Daniel Whitehall, but did anyone pause to see what that article about him said ? I couldn't pause, due to watching it OnDemand. Saw Reed Diamond while working on "Designated Survivor" this week, he's awesome.

Bakshi News ! Tripp ! All the continuity-porn that money can buy !

While it'd be awesome to see Kyle McLauglin again on this show (AND find out what happened to Jiaying, Gordon, and other Afterlife citizens besides Lincoln -- throw in "What did Raina do after Garrett died of his illnesses without the Kree serum?" for more fun, even though Ruth Negga may have gotten too big now with "Preacher" and "Loving" to want to appear on AoS again), I won't expect it.

Amazing episode. Sold on this now. So many KEY things that nailed it right down -- Aida and Daisy's scene, Radcliffe and Daisy's talk, Simmons spilling the beans a bit, Mace's sacrifice (even if it did feel a bit soon for that -- but hey, points for surprising us). Daisy terrigenesis was HUGE ! I figured they'd do it. Would've been a big missed opportunity if not.

Everyone's playing the hell out of this. Brett Dalton is fun and I'm glad we have him back. But betrayal is inevitable.

I'm glad Radcliffe has an un-destroyable (or so he believes?) back door out of The Framework -- I don't want the rest of the series taking place there.

[ edited by Kris on 2017-04-20 03:47 ]

Kris | April 19, 21:44 CET

Also ? I think some folks are too attached to the idea of people being intrinsically "good" or one way, right down to their core, regardless of what happens to them in life. There's ZERO reason to believe that. Just think of the accident of birth of where you were born and how you were raised (comfort, wealth or lack there of, values/belief systems, traumas that did or didn't happen...that could've happened to you). And sure, many of those challenges are character-building or help you develop coping mechanisms or send one into years of therapy, but are not necessarily evil-making the way it's depicted in sci-fi with alternate timelines and parallel realities (it can ONLY be full explored in speculative fiction, since we can't rewind our lives and run the experiment over again with different choices). But they matter, they add up to the sum of who you currently are.

If you (or Fitz, or any of these characters) were born to parents who followed an extremist version of a religion, for example (let's be timely and say Isis). If you were born and raised to be a child suicide bomber and had no healthier, outside influence, you would be a complete fluke if you ended up running away and NOT becoming a child suicide bomber. Kids take on a lot of what is input, while all being wired differently and not coming out of that kind of brainwashing exactly the same. But I mean come on -- the odds are stacked against you turning out civil. It's not any of those children's fault in real life and it's not completely Fitz's fault either if his dad had a stranglehold on him throughout his upbringining in The Framework reality. The turn is completely believable, IMO.

[ edited by Kris on 2017-04-20 04:06 ]

[ edited by Kris on 2017-04-20 04:08 ]

Kris | April 19, 21:55 CET

@Kris: It's about how Whitehall found a cure for polio.

I like that they're doing these little mentions even if the actors aren't guest starring. A few episodes ago, one of Coulson's news clippings was about "Hydra hero and Humans First leader" Felix Blake being honored with an award.

TimeTravellingBunny | April 19, 22:14 CET

Thanks for that. :)

Kris | April 20, 22:33 CET

April 18 2017