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"It's curtains for you, Dr. Horrible. Lacy, gently wafting curtains."
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May 09 2017

(SPOILER) Discuss Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 4x21 "The Return". The episode was written by Maurissa Tancharoen and Jed Whedon. It was directed by Kevin Tancharoen.

Ah (hhh!) the Power of Love.

Also one of the better tag scenes in a while, especially after last week's no-show for the movie clip.
Oh, you Canadian monster!
You know if I move to Canada, Dusk will be Dust.
It's okay I have healthcare.
So it doesn't matter how many times I stake you?
I'm immune to maple wood.
Not sure it needs saying, but maybe we shouldn't be staking Canadians... as a general rule. ;)
Hey, all! This is going to be a total nail biter, isn't it?
Why do people on TV keep shooting when they see bullets don't hurt their targets?
Technically death by fisting?
Oh damn. How many did Aida make?
More Piper. Who do I talk to about that?
Design fail, SHIELD.
She's such a liar.
Definitely more Piper! Javelina and NYTinPA go to
Are they making us like Piper so they can kill her?
*Raises hand with answer*
Maybe they're making us like Piper, because she's going to turn on them and kill someone else we love in the end.
Shut up, Dusk!
*Evil Grin*
LOL! Coulson & May.
WTF, Talbot?
Talbot just can't help it I guess. Almost like it's his default programming. Oh wait that would mean................
Are they underwater? Wasn't What's-His-Inhuman underwater, too?
The Framework has waterproof wi-fi?
Er.. was that an icer Jemma was using?
Too much to process! Aida, Fitz, & Simmons...
Well, THAT was unexpected.
Guess the Looking Glass to bring people back from the Framework is gone.
Yeah, how are they going to explain Mack. Is he not unplugged? Did Aida/Ophelia grab a portable version and plug him into that?
So the only LMDs left are the Ivonovs then...
I'm so confused...I've totally lost track of what happened where and who was an android when.
Why would they put them both in the same cell?
So we could have this scene.
Damn Talbot!
Overly Attached Girlfriend.

Reverse Buffy/Angelus.

Talbot's stuck back in the LMD arc.
Poor Talbot. Always several steps behind.
Talbot's still stuck in Taco Tuesday.

Aida's going to destroy the world over a man? She's better off without him!
Not Piper but RIP Davis and Pierce.
Great! A drunk omnipotent being!
Even underwater Ophelia's soooo thirsty.
Tallbot you could have actually been ahead if you'd stayed one more second...
I was right about the Darkhold! It builds worlds.
Hrm. So she's evil because she was rejected. Awesome. (Not awesome.)

Does Talbot know about Ghost Rider? He doesn't, does he?
So I assume Framework-Elena has her speed?
Framework Elena is in a Hydra lab, tied down with what are undoubtedly power-inhibiting restraints, while the now leaderless Hydra collapses violently around her. She's in trouble.
A lot of good her speed does her if she's strapped down to a table.
OK, that was nothing what I was excepting in the best way possible.

Also, both the book am I reading and the show I am watching have a character named Fitz that the creator(s) are doing horrible things to!
Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.Or a fomer android.

Great episode tonight.Can't wait for the finale next week.
Also, Ward will rescue YoYo. I mean cmon.
Unless Mace revealed it nobody outside of SHIELD knows about GR.
Also holy god give Malory Janson the damn Emmy.
If the Darkhold is a builder of worlds, then maybe the Framework is a parallel world, rather than a VR simulation. I can see this opening up the prospect of hopping between worlds and dimensions that will require at least a Season 5.
Mallory's been awesome. Technically 5 roles and all stellar.
We know the Framework is an electronically created world because of the Tron effect we saw when Coulson jumped through the portal. (I have no idea why that effect happened or what it meant... presumably the natives of the Framework didn't perceive it.) But our world could be the same thing. Is the spinning top wobbling a bit? (Little Inception reference, there.)

I think the jury is still out on whether the Framework natives are sentient or just really convincing simulations. If so, it would be good news for Mack and Hope, and Ward, and Trip. But bad news for Fitz, who would now be confronted with the fact that he killed and tortured more than just 2 real people.
Five? I only remember four.
What other Inhumans did Hydra experiment on ?
I would assume Yo-Yo doesn't have her Inhuman powers, since Daisy had to be "reactivated", if you will, by May & a Terrigen crystal.
Aida 1.0
Aida 2.0
Agnes Kitsworth
Madame Hydra
Crazy Ophelia (hey, just like Hamlet only with superpowers)
Aida 1 "Good Aida" killed by Mack, Aida 2 "Openly Evil" killed by Coulson, Agnes, Madame Hydra and now Human Ophelia.

Seems like Hydra got Gordon and Lincoln in the Framework and possibly Shockley's "back together" factor since she reassembled from 10 bullets so fast. Possibly VJ's initial speed too since we saw him in the machine in the Framework.

Framework Mace had Inhuman powers. With Elena strapped down like that it's probably known she has speed.

[ edited by Dusk on 2017-05-10 04:59 ]
Oh, I guess I didn't really consider the two AIDAs separate.
I'd like to know why, if Ophelia can shrug off being shot multiple times, Jemma was able to drop her with an Icer. Maybe that's what they should be using against her? Ice her, then while she's down, cut off her head.

And if Coulson can do that with his shield, why didn't he do the same thing when he was fighting the other Ivanov bots?
Ivanov's are connected to the human head. Trick would only work once.
"Technically death by fisting?"

"Even underwater, Ophelia's sooo thirsty."

Dusk, you were on fire last night, LOL (and also, giant "Bwah haaaaah!" at the fisting wrong). :)

Ophelia's healing powers more likely come from Jiaying than put-back-together-again exploding Watchdog Shockley.

If Ophelia can duplicate a la Ginger-Ninja, SHIELD is definitely screwed.

On the one hand, cool that they're tying the entire season together. On the other, Ghost Rider feels like he's gonna turn out to be one giant flaming Deus Ex Machina. On the OTHER other hand, we needed better closure on Robbie Reyes and Luna IS a lot of fun in that role (and smoldering, no pun intended).

AIDA/Ophelia was sympathetic/having an interesting arc and her freakout (understandable, given that she's newly experiencing emotions all at once, without getting to learn them over a childhood and teenage years the way we get to -- she's basically a toddler, emotionally, experiencing her "Terrible Twos") appears to undercut that, maybe. Woman scorned ? Oh well, let's see how the finale plays out. I want it to get more emotionally in-depth when it comes to AIDA, though, or at least further embrace its weirdness and bust open everything about The Darkhold's influence on her.

Fantastic episode.

[ edited by Kris on 2017-05-10 09:10 ]
Wow, wow, wow. Totally floored by this episode. Not just the storytelling going on all cylinders but such emotionally and thematically satisfying storytelling. Stellar work from Malory Janson as "real" Ophelia/Aida. Iain de C and Elizabeth H were utterly heart-wrenching in their one wordless scene together. Oh, and Fitz' realization about Ward (nature vs nurture). My, oh, my, the slowburn of the Coulson & May relationship -- enjoying that very much indeed. And even if Ghost Rider is a deux ex machina, I don't care! Loved seeing him return through the Darkhold thingymabob.
Ivanov's are connected to the human head. Trick would only work once.

All of the Ivanovs would be aware of the trick after the first time, but it would be hard to avoid it during a fistfight. Rather than trying to punch a robot into submission, Coulson might find it more effective to carve vital pieces off it.
Great episode - as others have said, Mallory Janson has been stellar and delivered maybe her best performance with this episode. Iain, as usual, was terrific. I hope when this series ends (I'd like one more please, even if it's just a wrap up) that he gets some major movie roles -

Not particularly invested in Mack / YoYo, and the Ghost Rider twist seems shoe horned in ... but how this wraps for Aida,Fitz,Simmons will have me tuned in for the finale
Se the only thing that throws it off is Jiaying needed contact with a healthy person to drain and heal herself, Ophelia doesn't.

Thanks, Kris.

[ edited by Dusk on 2017-05-10 14:31 ]
The episode and everyone in it was amazing. But I also hope they get a little more nuanced or interesting other than Ophelia's sudden jealousy as motivation for her being evil.
Oh, that's right Dusk, I forgot that about Jiaying's powers, about her being an energy/lifeforce vampire. Hmm...maybe another random Inhuman with healing powers was utilized in The Framework, then.

[ edited by Kris on 2017-05-11 10:14 ]
I love how no one here in the comments, NOT ONE PERSON, seems to have noted that Ivanov is MODOK.

We speculated about it back when AIDA cut off his head and put it in a jar. But then the show all but screams it, and nope! No one catches it.

He flat out called himself a machine "designed only for killing." And he used to be called "The Superior," which is a title MODOK once used. Guy's friggin' MODOK!
Bluesky, my guess is that Yoyo's powers were intact in the Framework, which is why she was restrained. She got caught by Hydra.

Daisy didn't have her powers because her altered history didn't include getting them. Since there was a nationwide manhunt for Inhumans, that wasn't true for everyone.
So do you think that The Superior, maybe aka MODOK, will be the big bad starting up next season? Because I'm thinking Ghost Rider is only there for Ophelia and the Darkhold.
@NYPinTA: Nah. Ivanov is an inferior (no pun intended) villain and far less interesting than Aida or most of the villains on the show. I'm pretty sure he's going to be done in the finale - and even if he somehow survives, there's no way he's going to be the Big Bad, or even a really significant antagonist next season. The Big Bad has to be someone/something really big and threatening and new. Making Ivanov/MODOK/whatever the Big Bad for the next season would be like making Ian Quinn the Big Bad of season 2.
Ivanov does seem to be a version of MODOK, but I think he'll be NODOK by the end of the next episode.
They did say they were not allowed to comment when asked if Ivanov was based on an existing Marvel character or not, so its certainly possible.
I think the MODOK stuff is intentional, but more an easter egg than the beginning of a new Big Bad. I think he's toast in the finale.

I believe Ghost Rider will destroy the Darkhold, but the regular cast members will kill Aidaphilia. They are the heroes and the final victory has to be theirs.
@Nebula1400: Noodle Organism Designed Only for Killing?

I am very confused . . . . ;D

But I agree, I think he's definitely MODOK. I just think he's totally intended as a throw-away one-season villain, like Garrett (AKA Clairvoyant) or Whitehall (AKA Kraken) or Calvin (AKA Mr. Hyde). Certainly fine characters in their own right, but serving their purpose when all is said and done.

Know what I'm hoping for? Can we FINALLY get that whole Graviton dangling plot thread (from AAALLLL the way back in early season 1) back into the larger SHIELD tapestry?
@Batman1016: That's what season 5 is for.
@TimeTravellingBunny: I certainly HOPE so!

[ edited by Batman1016 on 2017-05-12 09:27 ]
It's not that I'm invested in MODOK (maybe) being the next big bad. Just trying to figure how they'll finish everything and Ophelia and the Darkhold are priority. Plus they're down two with Yo Yo and Mack in the Framework. A good hive minded villain, if done well, could be a real challenge. (No slam on Hive-Ward, FYI.)

PS I hope they let Piper join the main team now that her team mates are gone. She's like a Mini-May.

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