I am beyond disappointment - I really don't think that is how they should resolve A/B/S!

magdelena | April 21, 18:34 CET

thats the stupidest way possible to end that triangle..........i cant believe whedon would do that. its so stupid, its kind of like a waste of the past 7 years (in buffys relationship terms). i would have rather they just brought the immortal on buffy and passed the whole angel spike thing altogether............and now buffy loves another evil thing (a real evil thing,not a new-souled evil thing) how stupid are they making her........what a total crock (as you can tell, im bitter :))

[ edited by norman on 2004-04-21 18:02 ]

norman | April 21, 20:00 CET

This isn't the end of it, i would of thought that it was fairly obvious why Joss did it this way.

He needed to provide at least some immediate temporary closure to this storyline in order to please the fans that were asking for it but it is obvious from the last few comments that neither Angel or Spike are really willing to let Buffy go yet.

This is just a way to please all the fans that wanted this issue addressed in the series whilst leaving the actual resolution (where Buffy actually chooses which of the two ensouled vamps she wants to be with) for a later date, most likely in a movie one way or another.

Besides, do you honestly think that he doesn't have some sort of plan for this Immortal storyline? Come on, this is Joss we are talking about.

The Arcane | April 21, 20:14 CET

just seems stupid to me, but oh well. to me it pretty much ends it, i dont see the point of dragging it on anymore, i mean andrew flat out said hey shes moving on.........(as you can tell, im one of those people that wants her to end up with one of them)

[ edited by norman on 2004-04-21 18:19 ]

norman | April 21, 20:18 CET

I am too Norman...

magdelena | April 21, 20:51 CET

That is what i'm saying Norman, she will eventually.

In fact it probably would have happened at the end of season six had it gone ahead as i'm certain that the show would have focused on the larger slayerverse issues once the Wolfram & Hart thing was resolved this year.

Whatever Andrew says about Buffy's feelings he only knows what she has told him so he is hardly the final word on who she really loves. Also there is the possibility that if this had continued into season six we would have discovered that Buffy's relationship with The Immortal is part of some plan to bring him down and so Andrew was purposely trying to get rid of Angel and Spike to prevent them from ruining the plan. With a little luck this can be resolved in one of these possible movies.

In practical terms this cancellation has forced a lot of issues to be dealt with in a short period of time and i think what Joss has done here is just put a temporary hold on the question of who she will finally choose.

The Arcane | April 21, 20:51 CET

Don't like it, not a good ending to the arc. This story really required Buffy herself to put in an appearence, and I feel if Sarah Michelle Gellar had been available to do this episode it would have been a lot more satisfying than simply Andrew tell them.

Also, does this mean that the series will end with Buffy still not knowing Spike is alive?

Ghost Spike | April 21, 21:01 CET

What did you guys expect? There was no way to close that story line without SMG. As soon as I heard she woudn't make an appearance I knew I would be dissapointed in the way they would do it. You really can't be surprised.

Lets face it, had the WB had some class and at least given Angel a full last season, things would be different. I personally don't think they ended things this way as any setup in future movies. I think this was the only way to give some quick closure with the number of episodes that were left.

After all there is no way she could choose Angel or Spike then try and explain why she wouldn't be with them through the end of the show. Stinks for all the shippers out there but I almost prefer it that way since I am not confident she will ever play Buffy again.

DarenG | April 21, 21:12 CET

For one thing, this isn't the end of Buffy-Spike-Angel. With no actual SMG, the resolution is naught. This is a holdover, and it makes an excellent point - people move on. People get over things, people change. We haven't seen Buffy in a year (and remember how different she was between, say, 4x20 and 5x20 of her own series?), and her cookie dough thing was a nice little statement, but knowing human nature? Wholly impractical.

I'm actually really excited about this - mostly because I'm sick of Spike-or-Angel talk. Buffy will be with who she chooses, and it could very well not be either vampire. Life is disappointing and strange like that.

TheJoyofZeppo | April 21, 22:34 CET

Exactly. The chances of SMG ever returning is almost non-existant (especially after Angel ends). I don't believe the movies will ever happen. I think the next time we see Buffyverse characters will be in the next spinoff.

So with Buffy not ending up with Spike or Angel is the best thing to do. The only other thing they could have done is left it alone. Then fans would be mad because SMG would never come back and the story line would never be closed. It really is a catch 22.

DarenG | April 21, 22:38 CET

Buffy will be with who she chooses, and it could very well not be either vampire. Life is disappointing and strange like that.


yeah, but this isnt life, its tv, and escape from reality.............which is why i wanted a better ending then that............

[ edited by norman on 2004-04-21 20:40 ]

norman | April 21, 22:39 CET

Without SMG it just wasn't meant to be. Even if SMG could have come back for one episode, she isn't coming back for a TV movie. So how could you explain why she was not there? This really was the best way to go.

In a perfect world SMG would have done several episodes of Angel and agreed to do the tv movies. Heck in a perfect world the WB head honcho would have a brain. Alas...it was not mean to be.

DarenG | April 21, 22:44 CET

i understand what you are saying, but i still dont like it............and i think its a little to soon to say SMG wont be coming back for a tv movie. she has already stated that she missed some of the elements of buffy, and that increases with time. its only been about a year without buffy......

norman | April 21, 22:48 CET

There have been reports that SMG has only been more diplomatic about her Buffy role because of fan backlash. Also, that they had to get JW, DB and JM to try and convince her to consider coming back at all.

IMO, she still has no desire to play the part again. If you read all of her interviews leading up to this season it was clear how she fealt about returning to Buffy. She just didn't change her mind all of the sudden.

I wouldn't look for her to do a TV movie ever unless her movie career bombs and she stops getting parts.

DarenG | April 21, 22:55 CET

............give it time........:)

norman | April 21, 23:00 CET

I agree, DarenG.

fate's bitch | April 21, 23:03 CET

If she still has no desire to play the part, then why has she, and the people that run Angel said that she was available for episode 22, and that she had told them so.

If she's available and the plot for one of the proposed TV. movies (don't know why everyones doubting these, I did doubt them, but the news last week that Joss' been approached to do them changed my mind) requires her presence, I believe she'll do them. I actually hope that the TV movies are more Buffyverse movies (can't use Whedonverse, because that would include Firefly) rather than strictly Angel movies.

Ghost Spike | April 21, 23:03 CET

yeah definately.......all the characters in one would be great.......

norman | April 21, 23:04 CET

Ghost Spike, I think the only reason she offered to do an episode was a combination of fan backlash, and pressure from her old cast mates as I stated above. Even DB came out and pubicly blasted her for not returning for sweeps earlier in the season.

However, she already knew that JW didn't want her for the final episode. JW approached her about the show long before the filming began on the last 6 episodes. Don't you find it strange she didn't respond until the last minute? Again she already knew JW didn't want her for the last episode.

As far as the TV movies go, you are assuming that the WB is not just trying to curb the fan outrage of the cancelation of the show. Until a deal is signed don't count on it. To me the odds are stacked against it.

I don't think SMG really wants to come back at all (doing a cameo in an episode is much different then a TV movie committment). I find it hard to believe that the WB is being sincere considering the track record. DB seems eager to move on (a la SMG). Last but not least I doubt all of the actors will be available once they move on.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see it. I just don't think it will happen. After Firefly I think we will see a spinoff.

[ edited by DarenG on 2004-04-21 21:16 ]

DarenG | April 21, 23:15 CET

I'm glad that SMG wasn't available during this episode. It's an awful episode. Even if they had changed the episode with SMG in it,the messagge would have been the same. Buffy moved on with another boyfriend.

I'm glad that the last Buffy/SMG scene is Chosen with that little smile. I don't want that moment to be replaced by some stupid B/A/S triangle. There are fans out there who don't care about the shipps. I'm more a Buffy (character) fan.

Why the need for another boyfriend? Someone can move on with there live without being in an another relationship.So they tell us (and Angel/Spike) that Buffy has a boyfriend so that Angel and Spike will move on?

[ edited by Kate on 2004-04-21 21:46 ]

Katy | April 21, 23:41 CET

true, i think i would have liked it better if they would of made her without anybody just living the life she wants...............that would have been better than what there doing (but i still wanted her with one of them)....all good points.......

norman | April 21, 23:58 CET

Norman, I've mentioned this before, but I'm going to point you towards our 'about' page once more where it's written:

"Please use proper grammar, capitalization and spelling as best as you can. This will help keep the discussion on topic and it makes your posts easier to read."

It's not a rule we enforce very strongly, but we do appreciate it if you at least try to put it into practice. If you could cut down on the dots and use capitals where needed your posts would easier to follow.

Caroline | April 22, 01:18 CET

Responding to: yeah, but this isnt life, its tv, and escape from reality.............which is why i wanted a better ending then that............

Joss isn't exactly a man with a history of pat resolutions or things turning out the way the fans would want it. He's interested in where human relationships go, and he's not so interested in wrapping stuff up with a bow so everybody's satisfied. Satisfaction is status quo, the heart of drama is movement and change.

TheJoyofZeppo | April 22, 02:29 CET

Oh for the love of ... I swear if Sarah was to dedicate her life to feeding third world countries, saving helpless kittens from trees and found the cure for all forms of cancer she would still have people getting at her for not dedicating enough time to Buffy.

This isn't just directed at DarenG but his posts are a prime example of a fan of a show thinking that the star of said show has a one track career in mind and no life outside of it.

Sarah has never said that she had no intention of coming back to playing Buffy but if she had spent her first year post Buffy constantly saying that she was ready and willing to return to the character how desperate would that have made her look?

She is a young actress looking to start a succesful, varied career. That is all she is. She may not have said that she will return to Buffy but she has never said she wouldn't either.

As for the other things you said, you are entitled to your opinion about why she has done and said the things she has but in my mind she would not have agreed to return at all if she had not wanted to herself. No amount of pressure from the outspoken Buffy fanbase would have forced her hand. And the so called David Boreanaz outburst? Never happened, it was a minor comment that when read in the proper context of the interview from where it came is far from the public blasting you describe.

All i am trying to say is that if anyone were to strip away all the speculation and words that the so called fans have put into Sarah's mouth they would find that the majority of what is believed about her is lies and rumours turned into internet "truth".

Sarah isn't the devil people, stop trying to make her into one!

The Arcane | April 22, 04:03 CET

yeah, well put.

norman | April 22, 04:21 CET

I think the idea of the of the whole episode is pretty damn stupid! Wow we get a glimpse of...wait for it...Buffy's hair! And let's not forget Andrew is in the episode! He of all people shouldn't come back! I mean at least someone useful like Kennedy or an actual cast member(Michelle Trachtenberg would have been a lot better!). Joss needs to get over Andrew and throw his ass out of the Buffyverse! But anywho... I don't think the epsidoe will be a total let down,we have 2 wait and see. But I don't blame SMG for not doing this episode, it was due to scheduling, but even if she was available it would have been smart for her to bail. She should have a larger role like Angel in the Buffy finale, but she should actually participate in the final battle, let's face it Angel could use another person to help in this HUGE battle against the enemies he made from episode one. Angel should go out with a Bang and kick major ass on these T.V movies!
Oh and one more thing, did anyone else know that Eliza Dushku expressed interest in returning for Angel's Finale, but got no response...I don't know what to say.

Gio | April 22, 04:29 CET

Wouldn't it have been funny if we discover that it was just the Buffybot and that the real Buffy would be pissed to know that Angel & Spike thought she would so quickly get into another relationship? I dunno. I'm just really not liking this ep.

The bit about Fred's parents is a bit sad. I can't believe that the gang didn't even let them know! As for Eliza not getting a place in Angel's finale, I'm kind of disappointed by this. I think that Angel's finale deserves atleast a 2 hour episode to close existing stories (not many) and atleast do something big. Not like in 'Chosen', I dunno what the hell happened there.

If this is The Apocalypse, it would be nice to see more than just the FG fighting back against the SP. Like Faith, Kate, & GWEN!!

Christopher | April 22, 04:33 CET

Does anyone know what happened to kate? I have the DVD set, did she just leave? Anyway Chosen wasn't so bad...I mean for a show that came into this world with a 2 hour series premiere it could have went out with a 2 hour finale, and could have devoted more time to Buffy and Friends instead of Wood, those damn wannabe Slayers, and Andrew. Hopefully Angel doesn't pull that crap, I hear Julie Lee is supposed to be in the finale...does anyone know who she is, that homeless girl in BTVS season 3 who took on Buffy's "alter ego" Anne. How F*&^%$g stupid! And Connor is in it... i just won't comment. I really hope that very little face time is given to Eve,Lindsey, and Hamilton considering this show should focus on Angel's main characters, not side crap! I mean please, please give us a good finale!!!!!!!

Gio | April 22, 04:43 CET