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"If you take sexual advantage of her, you're going to burn in a very special level of hell."
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April 30 2004

Angel Vs. Spike Poll Results. Who is the favorite vampire with a soul?

Pretty interesting poll. I actually agree with the results, as spike is my favorite vampire but i am sure there are some people out there who dont agree with it.

As posted here a couple of days ago.
Uh, sorry but wasn't there a thread about James on the Sharon Osbourne show? Why was that removed? I know it was said any new stuff about James' head shaving business was to be kept in that other thread, but this was a totally separate appearance.

Oh and Angel & Spike have both been two of my favorite characters from the start, but I too would have to give the edge to Spike.
sorry Simon. i never visited that thread, my fault, although i guess it wasnt the thread title, just mentioned.

[ edited by norman on 2004-04-29 23:15 ]
I saw it in the other thread, but like most of us, I really don't get to read everything and many probably missed it..

I love both guys, but Spike is my man.
I actually sent you an email (the one in your profile) containing your "comments" about it. Regarding the other post, one it broke board rules (regarding copyright), secondly the owner of the other site put up a huge notice on that page saying

"THE PERSON WHO POSTED

THIS LINK TO WHEDONESQUE

DID NOT HAVE THE WEBMASTER'S

PERMISSION"
i'm confused, I had comments in that thread? i must be really out of then, because i do not remember that. sorry again.

[ edited by norman on 2004-04-29 23:23 ]
Apologies norman, I meant I emailed EdDantes. But however in the interests of people who want to talk about Angel or Spike, I have changed the link to the proper address. So feel free to talk our favourite vampires. And in case the soul issue comes up, some people may find this thread at the ATPoBTVS board of interest.
""THE PERSON WHO POSTED

THIS LINK TO WHEDONESQUE

DID NOT HAVE THE WEBMASTER'S

PERMISSION"


That Sharon Osbourne thread? Really? Are you kidding? (Checking) Yep. You're right. Damn. Why would anyone mind being linked to? I mean stealing photos and passing them off as your own is one thing, but....don't you want your site to be seen? And now because this was on Whedonesque, she takes the entire thing down?? So no one on the web can see it again? Why put it up in the first place then?? Weird stuff.
wow, i like that thread that simon posted to, good discussion going on.
Ooh, this would be just too hard for me to decide! I love them both so much but for totally different reasons. Personality wise though I have to go with Spike. He is so versatile and fun. But then again when Angelus comes out to play he's a joy to watch too! Or when Angel is in a playful mood but mostly Angel is just broody. But I just love them both and can't imagine the Buffyverse without either of them.
i agree, they are both great characters. i just think spikes storyline is more interesting (my opinion only :))

*plus i like JM acting a lot*

[ edited by norman on 2004-04-29 23:31 ]
Oh and I got your email Simon. Very thoughtful of you, thanks.
Okay, I've totally screwed up this post. I was thinking you guys were talking about a site you weren't talking about. Is there a delete button on this thing? ;)
EdDantes Anytime :).

Regarding the two vampires. Angel has his own show, Spike has never been the lead. If there was a Spike show, I think perhaps more apt comparisons could be made between the two.
My favorite vamp with a soul? Holden Webster. Conversations With Dead People. And don't tell me he didn't still have his soul. First, it was the things he said to Buffy in his brief stint as a vampire that convinced me. Secondly, he was sired by Spike who also had a soul, and I'm reminded of the recent Angel episode where Angel was visited by one of the few vamps he's sired since he got a soul. That kid was messed up. I think vampires sired by a souled vamp also retain their soul, or perhaps more disturbingly, their soul gets mixed up with whatever the demonic influence is that replaces the soul in normal vampires and the soul becomes something else - something that's not either.

Anyway. I really liked Holden Webster. He was dusted before his prime. Angel and Spike are the easy answers. They don't hold a candle to Holden.
"Regarding the two vampires. Angel has his own show, Spike has never been the lead. If there was a Spike show, I think perhaps more apt comparisons could be made between the two. "

True, often side characters can be more interesting because leads have to stay a certain way. More pressure on being 'worthy' of being the lead. (Although they've pushed that with Angel more than most shows)

But more risks can be taken with side characters. To use s simplistic example, Luke Skywalker had to be the noble hero on his journey, but Han Solo could be the more ambivalent.

And Zachsmind, interesting bit about Holden Webster. I thought he was great too, and often wandered what would've happened if he'd popped up earlier in the show and stayed longer.

I don't think he had a soul tough, he was still too 'evil' for that. But there are differences between how much humanity a vamp individual can retain. The S2 story of the Judge showed that. The vamp that still loved books was human enough to be burned, and Spike and Dru smelled of human affection (And probably could have been burned.) But Angelus was completely devoid of humanity.

But of course as you say, since Angel S5, it's been established that vamps sired by a souled vamp are a little different so technically, Webster should have been like that too. (Even though the writers probably didn't know that yet;-)
But of course as you say, since Angel S5, it's been established that vamps sired by a souled vamp are a little different...

I actually still don't buy that. I don't think that vampires sired by souled vamps are any different, and even if they are we'd need more proof of that happening. Personally I thought the whole point of Why We Fight was that Lawson just couldn't find his place because his sense of duty that carried over from being human couldn't be satisfied as a vampire.

Either way, neither the writers nor the episode supported that idea, and Angel even said "I don't think that's how it works." I got the idea that Lawson didn't really think that's how it worked either, but was just looking for someone to blame.
Where's the option to Vote for BOTH?

I like Spike and Angel for different reasons, shouldn't really be forced into choosing one.
I'm not sure you're entirely right, ringworm. But also not entirely wrong.

LAWSON:So what do you think? Is it me, chief? Or does everyone you sired feel this way?

ANGELYou're the only one I ever did this to...after I got a soul.

Which seems to imply at least there was something different going on with him. But you are right that it's hardly etched in stone about what happened to vamps sired by souled vamps. Messed up might be just the word to describe it.

But Lawson definitely didn't have a soul. And I don't think Holden had a soul either. As I said, vamps differ per individual, how evil, how much residual humanity there still is. But if there is a difference wether or not your Sire had a soul, then it's interesting stuff to speculate about.
Spike all the way! I think he is so popular because of his amazing character development on Buffy. And also he's got that 'bad boy who's really a softie inside' thing going for him. Angel never had that.
Liam(that we saw) was never a sweet guy. Angelus was unbelievably terrible. And Angel tries to be too noble, tries to deny his desires and feelngs.
William was a fragile poet. Spike(unsouled) knew he was love's bitch, didn't try to be noble about it. Spike(souled) is finally getting his own back, can admit being in love(Buffy) and loving(Fred) unabashedly.
Spike displays his passion more easily than Angel, and that makes him attractive as a character. Angel tries to be subdued with his feelings, also has the weight of the world on him. Always conflicted. Spike has it a bit more than he used to, but it doesn't weigh him down like it does with Angel.
Spike enjoys life while Angel worries.

Also, Spike? Just hotter! Captain Peroxide over Tall, Dark & Forehead anyday!!
Yeah, Angel's uglier, but has a better written character. How can I pick?
Uhm, Interesting that SkyOne doesn't know how to calculate percentages properly.
47%+57% does not equal 100%.
Try Spike wins with 53%.

Although I just learned this was already commented in the original post in whedonesque.

[ edited by Daemon on 2004-04-30 00:41 ]
Yeah I noticed that too. 47 and 57...hehehe. But then it could be Spike beat Angel by 57-43 rather than 53-47. Hard to tell.
Umm, admittedly I haven't followed the link to see what the poll is all about yet.... but seriously, how many times will the debate over which vamp is cooler come up? I admit, I give it to Spike hands down. But I love both characters, and I just feel like this particular topic has been irrevocably tainted by years of cross-fanbase flame wars, with Angel fans bashing Spike fans and vice versa. *rolling eyes*
That extra 4% are the folks who went, "Oh CRAP! My mouse accidentally clicked on Angel while I was daydreaming about Spike! Doh! How could I be so foolish??" So they hurried to change their vote, but due to a flaw in the voting system, both votes counted!! :)

I just feel like this particular topic has been irrevocably tainted by years of cross-fanbase flame wars, with Angel fans bashing Spike fans and vice versa. *rolling eyes*

Well, I think it's mostly done in fun here. And how can a topic like "Spike vs Angel" be tainted anyway? It's a contentious topic by definition! It's very essence is to compare and contrast, and if some people say the contrasting is bashing, oh well. I know, some people go over the top sometimes, but I still don't see how that 'taints' a topic like this. It's like saying shippers taint 'Spuffy vs Bangel'!
"I just feel like this particular topic has been irrevocably tainted by years of cross-fanbase flame wars, with Angel fans bashing Spike fans and vice versa. *rolling eyes* "

I agree that has reached some insane levels on the internet in certain places, and liking both characters, I've always found it quite annoying too.

However I've never seen that behavior on this site, so it's really not something to complain about here. If handled like here, it's just a little fun, so where's the harm?

I'll tell ya where....she's getting Angel's mug of blood! Ba-DUM-bum!

*crickets chirping*...........

Okay I know you guys are out there, I can hear your teeth grinding. Come on! 'Where's the harm'! That's funny stuff!
Ed - Perhaps in the Pylean Hell Dimention but here it was just ...**rolls-eyes**
Good one ED!

Yes, maybe it's over done in other places but this is purely just in fun on this site. I love the varied answers regarding why someone likes another vampire better and earlier I said I'd have a hard time choosing but I think deep down, Spike is my favorite. I love them both but if I could only invite one of them over for dinner it would have to be Spike. There wouldn't be any long uncomfortable moments with Spike because he is just pure entertainment all the way. Angel would just sit there and not even smile at you.

And just a bit off topic, when the Spike dolls came out for pre-order way back at the end of last year I gave my daughters the option of picking a Spike, Angel or Buffy doll. They both quickly said they wanted Spike and they finally arrived yesterday in the mail. "Spike" sat with us at dinner and "Spike" watched Angel with us. And I believe Spike is completely sold out where as there are still some Angel dolls available in the US but not in Europe. We've since ordered the Angel dolls but only so Spike can have some company. Buffy is no longer available!!
I really don't know him.....the whole marriage thing...just an internet joke.....I live in Hoboken.....really.....I have nothing to do with Ed.....
We've since ordered the Angel dolls but only so Spike can have some company. Buffy is no longer available!!

Aren't your kids a little too young to learn about slash??? ;)

And Buffy is available, but shipping cookie dough is just harder than it looks!
My oldest is 17 and has said several times that Angel and Spike would make a good couple ;)
"Ed - Perhaps in the Pylean Hell Dimention but here it was just ...**rolls-eyes** "

"I really don't know him.....the whole marriage thing...just an internet joke..."

Ingrates.... Fine. I will now do the dance of shame.

*Stomp. Stomstomp stomp stomp. Stompstompstomp*
The actual numbers are there, so rounded to the nearest tenth it is 46.8% for Angel and 53.2% for Spike. Pretty close all in all. My vote goes to Spike. The character arc has been an amazing feat of writing and acting. Plus I empathize with his inner bad poetry writing, hopeless romantic geek.
Glad I'm at work and can't see that, Sweetie. But anyway, we're sorely off topic. Let's bring this back. GO SPIKE!!!!
"I love them both but if I could only invite one of them over for dinner it would have to be Spike. There wouldn't be any long uncomfortable moments with Spike because he is just pure entertainment all the way. Angel would just sit there and not even smile at you."--blwessels

I love them both, but based on that I would have to pick Spike. The little white-haired chatterbox would be much more fun. And I adore William. Plus, if you got to have the hot monkey love, he wouldn't turn all evil.
I just think Angel does not allow himself to be the man he could be because of his pesky curse. He's always reminded that he can't risk falling in love and if he was allowed some romance there would be new growth and development in his character.

I have a hard time deciding who I like better. I think I relate to Angel more on a personal level, and Spike is always entertaining. I'm more attracted to Angel, at least the Angel on Buffy and his early ATS years, but Spike was never the vampire I wanted to shag. I do have a soft spot for Angel more than Spike but I don't like saying one is better than the other.

Can I just choose Wesley? I know he's no vampire but he does take a bite out of my heart every Wednesday night.

Ok that was bad. Sorry.
Yeah they may like Spike better, but Angel is the one who will end up with Buffy in the end. The whole Buffy and Spike thing was a one sided romance and a lot of sex! Plus Angel and Buffy have gone through many others and still haven't decided on one. I think that Spike should go back with Dru or Harmony and leave Buffy alone. Hopefully, whenever this love story gets resolved, Joss makes it Buffy and Angel, not Buffy and Spike.
I hate ship wars.

Orgy time.
"but Angel is the one who will end up with Buffy in the end"

I really strain to see what you base that on. Like Bell (or was it Minear?) said, the cookie dough speech meant "It didn't work out. We're both adults. Let's move on."

The writers and characters have all moved on. Everyone has except for the more fanatical 'shipper' fans. And frankly I never got them. I've enjoyed both the 'Bangel' and the 'Spuffy' periods when they had their time, but please could we just move on?

And frankly Buffy was jumping the bones of Parker and then got into long term with Riley pretty darn quickly after Angel left. In the end, Riley still left Buffy who was running after him, wanting him to stay, not the other way around. And Angel fell for Cordy who was taken from him. Not quite them 'not being able' to love other people is it?

And yeah, Spike loved her. She liked him, was sexually attracted to him and in the end they just shared an undefinable but very strong bond, but it's not gonna happen.

I won't mind it much if either one does wind up with her, but really, lets move past it all. Both Angel and Spike. And frankly I get the impression from the trailer that that is where we're heading.

My bet is that some young Italian stud has been enjoying Buffy's warm cookie-self. She's probably done!;-)
i wouldnt say buffy moved on that quickly, it was technically what, 5-6 months (three months to college, then how long did it take them to actually get together)

ohh, and this was spike vs. angel, so how did the "who gets buffy" arguement get brought up? (we all know she ends up with angel) lol!

[ edited by norman on 2004-04-30 05:10 ]
Just a little defense of Buffy, she didn't quite move on that fast from Angel to Parker or Riley. Angel was around for most of that season but they weren't really a couple for most of it. And had already decided they couldn't be together way before he left. Angel left at the end of the school year and it was at least four months before Buffy started seeing Parker.

And if Parker had been a nice guy Buffy probably would've stayed with him for awhile. He played her and took advantage of her. He was a cad.

I think she did love Riley but he was the one that was insecure. I also think she was on the way to falling in love with Spike and if there had been a season 8 it might've happened. Yes, season 6 was all about sex but season 7 was definitely building a wonderful relationship that was turning into love. And yes Buffy's speach to Angel was she needed time (but for what? Nothing had changed on Angel's end). I think if she was still hung up on Angel and Angel again wanted a relationship there wouldn't have been anything holding them back. Yes, there still is love and respect for each other but whether or not they are in love is debatable.

I actually liked her with both Angel and Spike - each was special in its own way but clearly things got in the way of both relationships. I even think now looking back that I liked her and Riley together until he started getting all needy and clingy. And although I didn't buy the Angel/Cordy relationship it did happen, so clearly he had moved on too. I felt they rushed it and had them one day being close friends and the next day declaring they loved each other.

And Spike was great with Buffy but he was also great with Drusilla. And Angel was great with Darla and maybe if Darla hadn't been turned so quickly back into a souless vampire Angel would've fallen in love with her. Frankly I don't get the shippers either. There has been some great storylines going on with all the characters mentioned and each relationship was special in its own way.

And I highly doubt it will be resolved one way or the other. There is no easy solution. But if ME does resolve it I'd be happy and sad because I liked her with both and would be happy with whoever she ended up with but I would be sad for the other character. But honestly, I don't see how it will be resolved in an episode where the actress isn't even officially in it. And yes, if the resolution is that Buffy has truly moved on and found love in Europe, I'll be happy too and I believe that Angel and Spike would be happy for her because they love her and only want the best for her.

I just think the shippers should get over it and just enjoy the years of great story telling we had and hope we get some more. It's been a fascinating eight years and I'm happy that I wasn't so focused on one specific couple that I was able to enjoy it fully. I'm just going to enjoy the last remaining episodes and be grateful that I gave BtVS a look when it first came on the air even though I wasn't impressed with the movie.
yeah, thats kind of what i said above (about her moving on) :)
I was in the process of typing mine up when you posted yours.
"we all know she ends up with angel) lol!"

heh, I admire your tenacity but I wouldn't hold my breath;-)

"Just a little defense of Buffy, she didn't quite move on that fast from Angel to Parker or Riley. Angel was around for most of that season but they weren't really a couple for most of it."

Ehh, can't really agree. All of S3 was about their angsty love and how they struggled with not being able to be together. When Angel told her he was leaving, she was surprised and shattered and it was almost the end of the season. And when he actually leaves it really was the end of the season. S3 was pretty much Bangel through and through.

"And if Parker had been a nice guy Buffy probably would've stayed with him for awhile. He played her and took advantage of her. He was a cad."

Yeahhh he was....and she jumped his bones mere months after her supposedly 'eternal forever love' left her. And on the first date I might add. Face it, Angel was still pining over her long after she was seeing new guys with gusto.

"I think she did love Riley but he was the one that was insecure."

Yeah, she was the one running after the chopper in the end, but the guy was right that she had been lukewarm to him at best lately. Hey, love the Buffster, but face it, men like hankies, hehe;-)
(*Ducks to dodge fruit and various meats*)

"I also think she was on the way to falling in love with Spike and if there had been a season 8 it might've happened. Yes, season 6 was all about sex but season 7 was definitely building a wonderful relationship that was turning into love."

I agree. Things were always wrong in timing there and there was that whole 'starting-out-as-mortal-enemies-thing', but in the end she could have loved him. But didn't happen.

"And yes Buffy's speach to Angel was she needed time (but for what? Nothing had changed on Angel's end). I think if she was still hung up on Angel and Angel again wanted a relationship there wouldn't have been anything holding them back"

Yeah, gotta tell ya, if I were Angel (or a Bangel) I'd have been pretty pissed at the cookie dough speech. Basically the nicest, most evasive brush off ever. While still keeping you on a string. But then she was kinda good at keeping both Spike and Angel on a string in the end there. 'Nother reason I think it's best for both boys if they stay clear.

"And although I didn't buy the Angel/Cordy relationship it did happen, so clearly he had moved on too. "

What I been sayin'.....

" if the resolution is that Buffy has truly moved on and found love in Europe, I'll be happy too and I believe that Angel and Spike would be happy for her because they love her and only want the best for her."

And then they both go off and get drunk in a bar, compare notes about her, loudly making toasts and proclaim it's HER loss and wind up throwing darts at a picture of her italian stud. Hopefully passing out before they go and eat him;-)

"I just think the shippers should get over it and just enjoy the years of great story telling we had and hope we get some more. It's been a fascinating eight years and I'm happy that I wasn't so focused on one specific couple that I was able to enjoy it fully. "

They should print that on tshirts everywhere. Couldn't put it better myself. Or maybe they should make it into a movie and show it every X-mas. Nah, I'll stick with naked Faith wrestling aligators.
How did a great discussion turn into a 'Who gets Buffy?' argument once again ? :: rolls eyes :: Bangel and Spuffy both had great times and some awful times, I understand the people who are passionate about their ships but flaming the other ship and the other character who's with Buffy, because their ship doesn't go the way they want, makes me unbelievably frustrated. I admit even I fell into the trap when someone bad mouths my ship/ex-ship. I love the ships but I always follow the story, at least I try to follow it.

For the who's the better vamp discussion; neither. It can't be judged, they experienced different things, put into different battles and tested differently. I LOVE Angel, he thrills me. I think he's the one who suffered the most in this universe and even with a 'forced' soul, he tries to do the best he can. I find that pretty impressing. However, my guy is Spike. I can write dozens of pages why I love him above everybody else but I'll just say I agree with the others' reasons here. They are both great but the choice is just the viewer's personal preference, doesn't make anyone better than the other.

[ edited by pelinxf on 2004-04-30 09:41 ]
I would say that I am the most passionate shipper around. I think that there were pairings we liked and pairings we hated. However, Spike and Angel were both great with Buffy - I would be happy if one of them got to be with her.

pelinxf, you are right, it is all a matter of opinion and personally I get frustrated when people close their minds and are not open to every eventuality.

As for who is the better vampire ... I will take the combo of the two you see I like a gentleman in public (Angel) and a freak in the bed (Spike) hehehehe!
I love them both but if I could only invite one of them over for dinner it would have to be Spike.

Yeah, especially for Thanksgiving dinner! "Pangs" still cracks me up.
Buffy will not end up with either Angel or Spike. Buffy is a VAMPIRE SLAYER. They are VAMPIRES. All this shipping debate is moot. It's like a cow's opinion. It doesn't matter. It's moo.
Some one has been watching Friends I see.
If this is going to be a ship war, then I'm putting in my vote for Buffy/Spike. ;)
"They are both great but the choice is just the viewer's personal preference, doesn't make anyone better than the other."

"How did a great discussion turn into a 'Who gets Buffy?' argument once again ? :: rolls eyes :: "

"pelinxf, you are right, it is all a matter of opinion and personally I get frustrated when people close their minds and are not open to every eventuality."

I don't know if you guys are all referring to me and Blwessels but then I'd say, please read what we actually wrote. We're both saying both relationships were great, both guys loved her and that the characters should move on and how we don't get the fanatical 'shippers'.

And then in the next posts everyone complains about this huge 'shipper-battle' going on. Where? Did I miss it??;-)
"we all know she ends up with angel) lol!"

heh, I admire your tenacity but I wouldn't hold my breath;-)


it was a joke, hence the LOL :)

to get back on track to the post, i still vote for Spike as my favorite vamp. and yeah, pangs was a great episode :)
Even though I love both vamps, I'd have to go with Spike, too. His story is the one that has gripped me the most.
"heh, I admire your tenacity but I wouldn't hold my breath;-)"
- it was a joke, hence the LOL :)"


Uhm......yes Norman, I know. Mine was a joke too.

Hence the ";-)"
Brrr...did it just drop a couple of degrees in here? C'maahhhn! Let's all make nice...
heh, I admire your tenacity but I wouldn't hold my breath;-)"
- it was a joke, hence the LOL :)"

Uhm......yes Norman, I know. Mine was a joke too.

Hence the ";-)"

yes, i figured that out myself :) its all in good fun

[ edited by norman on 2004-04-30 19:09 ]
No EdDantes, I wasn't referring you at all :) Actually, that was a great post.
I actually am sick of being beaten up because I posted maybe 3-4 times in the past year that I am an Angel/Buffy person. I know I don't have a problem with Spike/Buffy "shippers"...like you guys call them...I actually feel attacked by people who are not "shippers" of any kind. Just because I feel that way doesn't mean I'm an asshole with no brain. I have watched Buffy from Episode One and also PAID to see the original movie at the theatre. So although I am a "shipper"...I TOO have loved the story of each character...the "ship" is not the ONLY thing that I love...it's just where my heart and mind lead me. I've NEVER attacked anyone's opinion on NOT being a "shipper" but posts are always brought up about how "shippers" are the lepers of the fandom...I think I've had enough. I'll just lurk. Thank you very much. Oh, and lastly...my favorite vampire...Angel. Not that it matters.

[ edited by Coll on 2004-05-01 00:48 ]
Coll, I don't know if you are offended by my post but I looked 3 times to this thread and couldn't see another post by you to offend. To be specific I wasn't targetting anyone or any ship. I'm a shipper - a half shipper to be clear ( I'm recovering) but I feel restless when everything regarding Spike & Angel somehow turns out 'Who is going to end up with Buffy ?' It always comes up somehow and to me Angel& Spike's relationship/history is much more than that.

As I said, I'm trying to recover but if you're insisting on it, I'm a Spuffy who once was a Bangel. As a shipper I'd never say 'shippers' ruin everything. Certainly there are some group of people on both sides who are less than nice but I never implied every shipper is like that. It's not shippers' passion for their couple make things uneasy, it's the shipper wars and character flaming.

These days, I just want Buffster to choose one of them and close the 'Jossian Devil Triangle' once and for all. Yeah, never gonna happen. :(
I have been to many sites regarding Ats/BtVS and I have been taken to task about my "shipping views", However, eversince I was lurking (long-time) and finally signed-up to whedonesque, I never feel the least disrespected - hey! everyone is entitled to an opinion. To be honest things wouldn't be "spicey" enough if everyone agreed.

It is the Passion my friends that make sites like these worth visiting.

:)
"pelinxf, you are right, it is all a matter of opinion and personally I get frustrated when people close their minds and are not open to every eventuality."

Hi EdDantes, my opinion was not directed at you or anyone. (sorry for any confusion :)) Basically in a nut shell I was trying to say an "Imagination is great, lets not limit it"
Coll, I'm sorry you feel as if posts were targeted at you or posts you may have made in the past. That wasn't my intention at all. I don't think you come across as a fanatical shipper at all. I think everyone is a shipper to some extent but most aren't obsessed just with the one relationship and anything else that happens just isn't important. You said that you would like to see Buffy and Angel back together in the end and frankly, I wouldn't mind seeing that either but I was able to enjoy the Buffy/Spike storyline as well but I, personally, don't think it ever got a chance to get to the level that was Angel and Buffy.

You then said that you still are able to enjoy the other storylines as well and I feel the same way.

My problem is with people who, regardless of what the topic is, make a statement that Buffy belongs with Angel (or Spike depending on your particular ship) and that's all they want to focus on and if you don't agree with them you are wrong. I don't think you've been that way at all.
What the hell is thie "Ship" business?! I don't get it! Someone please post an explanation. Oh, and as I stated earlier, Buffy and Angel will end up together whenever Joss decides to wrap up the Buffyverse for good.
"Imagination is great, lets not limit it"

Couldn't agree more.

"I actually am sick of being beaten up because I posted maybe 3-4 times in the past year that I am an Angel/Buffy person."

Oh come on Coll we didn't mean it like tha-...wait. You're a Bangel shipper?? LET'S GET HIM! (crowd gathers with pitchforks and torches)

Ah just messin' with ya;-)

"What the hell is thie "Ship" business?! I don't get it! Someone please post an explanation"

Welcome to the whacky world of internet TV blabbing and it's weirdo jargon. 'Ship' stand for 'relationship'. 'Shippers' are the more determined supporters of a certain relationship on a show. If you feel Spike and Buffy should be together 4EVAH! (sorry couldn't resist) than you're a Spuffy! (Spike+Buffy) If you think she should be with Angel, you're a Bangel! If you're sorry Spike and Fred never got it on, you sail on the 'ship' of 'Spred'! The possibilities are endless.

Personally I think 'PrincipalSnuffy' coulda worked;-)......Some women actually like the thought of 'Spangel', but that's a whole different Oprah....
Thanks a lot EdDantes. I get it now, and I think Im definetely a Bangel.

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