But my Favorite ending for Friends has to be "THE ONE THAT ENDS LIKE ST. ELSEWHERE ..."

RavenU | May 03, 06:20 CET

They should do lots of endings, like the ending to Wayne's World, at the end of the first ending Chandler and Joey stand in surrounded by the bodies of their friends, "This ending sucks, let's do the Scooby Doo ending!!"

At least this show is getting a real ending, unlike a certain other show that ends in a few weeks. "Let's do the hugely unstisfying ending where we get cut off mid-sentance because we thought we were coming back next seas......"

A question I've always wondered, how come shows like Friends, and ER are made by Warner Brothers, yet shown on NBC rather than the WB?

Ghost Spike | May 03, 16:22 CET

Considering that Whedon made a point (most) every season both with Angel and Buffy to end not so much on a cliffhanger as with a sense of finality that could continue, ending Angel a little more open ended than usual is ironically appropriate.

Buffy

• Season One: The Master's dead and everybody goes out for ice cream.
  
• Season Two: Angel/us is dead. Sad. But the world isn't destroyed so it's not so bad.
  
• Season Three: The snake of a mayor's dead. School dun blowed up. Everyone but Xander and Cordy go to college. Cordy and Angel leave for their own series.
  
• Season Four: Initiative is toast. Adam is fried. The Scoobies manage to tick off whatever it is that makes a slayer a slayer, and they have bad dreams, probably due to that red icky stuff they were drinking while watching nightmare inducing movies.
  
• Season Five: Giles murdered Ben. Glory's dead. Buffy's dead. Can't get much more final than that.. or can you?
  
• Season Six: Apocalypse once again averted. Xander's yellow crayon speech leaves Dark Willow in red hair and tears. Giles is only mostly dead-ish, and Buffy leads Dawnie to a brave new world filled w/daffodils & puppies!
  
• Season Seven: Buffy flips off The First Evil, Anya dies, Sunnydale becomes a crater as everyone else barely escapes in a yellow school bus. Oh. And something about cookie dough.

Angel

• Season One: There was this Sanshu prophecy and they think it means Angel's death, but turns out it depends
  on how Wesley squints at the paper. Lindsey gets his hand cut off, and yet another apocalypse is averted.
  
• Season Two: The gang makes it back from Lorne's home dimension, tired but happy, just in time to see Willow show up bearing bad news, circa Buffy season five.
  
• Season Three: Okay this one was actually a cliffhanger. Fred and Gunn, the worst babysitters ever, lose Connor. Connor cruelly leaves Angel in a watery grave for three months. Cordy leaves with Skip to seek her rather confusing destiny as a.. whatever she is, Wesley goes to bed with the evil Lilah, and Lorne hightails it for a job in Vegas.
  
• Season Four: The whole Call-Me-Jasmine-If-Yer-Nasty storyline has played out, leaving W&H weakened but not down. They decide if you can't beat them, seduce them, and convinces Angel Investigations to take managerial control of the LA branch, so they can allegedly work within the system of evil to change it for good. Rather ambiguous ending, but at that moment it looked like a suitable compromise between good and evil, and coulda been a successful way to end the series if they needed.
  

Angel Season Five? Well I wouldn't want to give it away but considering how Whedon purposefully tried to close as many loose ends as possible while keeping the possibility of a new season open, in previous years, perhaps this time he's going to purposefully leave things very open ended just to spite certain network suits. I wouldn't be surprised.

ZachsMind | May 03, 19:29 CET

But doesn't that spite the fans too? If there's no chance of Angel coming back at all, then surely Joss owes it to the fans to tie up as many (not all) loose ends as possible?

cal | May 03, 19:44 CET

Quite the contrary, Cal. First off, Whedon owes us nothing. Secondly, tying up all loose ends would demean the intelligence and sensibility of his fan base. We don't expect happy ever afters in the JossVerse, nor should we want them.

The end of Buffy season seven was open-ended, and yet the plot arc of Buffy was quite finalized. Compare it to the end of any fairy tale, like say Snow White for example. We don't actually get to see Snow White live happily ever after with Prince Charming, but we're just given the indication that everything's going to be okay. When the series Buffy ended, it was clear that the characters still had much to do, but that Buffy finally accepted the mantle of Slayer on HER terms and in a way that insured she wouldn't feel alone anymore. So although the characters would certaintly face more foes in the future, we're given satisfaction that despite this uncertain future, everything's going to be okay.

I'm sure when you see the end of Angel, you'll understand that while arguably open ended, Angel will certainly be facing his reality on his own terms and in a way that suits his.. particular.. uhm, idiom. =) He may or may not live happily ever after, but then, Whedon doesn't tell fairy tales.

ZachsMind | May 03, 19:56 CET

Tying up some, not all, loose ends doesn't necessarily mean "happy ever afters". I just don't want to be left dangling when the show ends. Please don't insult my intelligence by quoting fairy tales at me. ;-)

cal | May 03, 20:27 CET

"...perhaps this time he's going to purposefully leave things very open ended just to spite certain network suits."

The flaw in that reasoning is the assumption that certain suits give one iota of a rat's behind what happens on or to Angel. I do agree, however, that Joss owes us nothing because he's given us everything. I'm not a fan of the happily-ever-after--although I couldn't bear it if the series had ended with Angel deep down in the bottom of the ocean. I am unspoiled for the end of Angel, but I expect some "quality pain" as much as from how the story ends (or doesn't) as to what might have been.
I can take it. I hope.

[ edited by bloodflowers on 2004-05-03 19:05 ]

bloodflowers | May 03, 20:51 CET

I wasn't insulting anyone's intelligence. Comparing Snow White to Buffy was just the first thing that came to mind. I coulda probably made similar points while comparing Firefly to Godspell but it wasn't the easiest way, so I used Snow White. Please don't insult my intelligence by taking offense when it was obviously not intended.

ZachsMind | May 03, 21:48 CET

I'm not offended ZachsMind. Don't bite me... :-D

cal | May 03, 21:56 CET

Well! I'm offended that you're not offended! =P

*hides fangs*

Monica = Buffy.. "Is it me? Is it like I have a beacon that only dogs and men with severe emotional problems can hear?"
Rachel = Cordy.. "If she wanted to be more like me, why couldn't she just copy my hairstyle or something?"
Phoebe = Willow.. "They don't know that we know they know we know!"
Chandler = Xander.. "Could I BE any more scared?"
Ross = Giles.. "Stupid British snack food!"
Joey = Angel.. "You waited too long and now you're in 'The Friend Zone'." ..okay maybe Spike. "How you doin'?"

The mind boggles!

[ edited by ZachsMind on 2004-05-03 20:53 ]

ZachsMind | May 03, 22:12 CET

Well, I read that article right before I went to bed last night and ended up dreaming about various Friends endings, with Lorne tending bar at Central Perk. I don't even watch Friends!

weatherby | May 03, 22:52 CET

Hee hee, I'm picturing Lorne leaning on the bar trying to chat with Joey!

Firefly Flanatic | May 03, 22:55 CET

If Lorne's behind the bar, where's Gunther?

ZachsMind | May 03, 22:56 CET

Gunther is now Spike! (he does have the white hair afterall!)

Firefly Flanatic | May 03, 22:58 CET

Wait! Giles killed a guy named Ben who was half a woman! Ross raised a guy named Ben with the help of two women! Wow!

ZachsMind | May 03, 23:01 CET

Friends!Ben is Glory?

weatherby | May 03, 23:02 CET

I knew there was something about that kid!

Now, do we suspect that Ben and Glory may have some kind of connection.

Ghost Spike | May 03, 23:12 CET

No actually I think Susan would be Glory. Or maybe Carol.

ZachsMind | May 03, 23:14 CET

Rachel would have to be Buffy for "The one that ends like Buffy The Vampire Slayer", she'd tell Gunther she loved him, he'd thank her for saying it, she'd jump along the top of some buildings, then jump into Monica's speeding away Porsche as all of New York City collapses around them.

I still prefer the ending I've been telling my sister about for weeks now (she's threatened me with death if I tell her the truth), Gunther holds Rachel, Chandler, Monica, Ross and Phoebe hostage in Central Perk, he'll let them all go if Rachel says she loves him, she refuses and Gunther kills everyone of them. Then Joey would be about a broken Joey, hunting down Gunther to avenge the death of his friends.

Or how about "The one that ends like Alias". After discovering that Monica is both a Russian spy, and his sister, Chandler travels to her world famous restaurant for a final showdown. With Joey's death still a mystery, as noone knows whether it was him or his twin brother who was killed in a car crash, Phoebe channels the spirit of Milo Rambaldi for clarification on the subject. Rachel and Ross learn that their child is the Messiah, and Mike makes the startling discovery that he is Rachel's father. In the final scenes Milo Rambaldi returns in the form of Janice, causing everyone to gasp "Oh...My....Gawd!"

[ edited by Ghost Spike on 2004-05-03 21:29 ]

Ghost Spike | May 03, 23:21 CET

Oh, do you know the actual ending for Friends? I haven't watched Friends since its second season or so, but all this chatter about it has made me curious to watch the finale. However I am slightly resentful over the idea of it beating out the M*A*S*H finale ratings and thus, if I watched it and it did, I would be sulky and feel responsible.

weatherby | May 03, 23:30 CET

Buffy & Friends, season one:

The One Where Jesse Dies
The One With Amy And Her Mom
The One Where A Teacher Almost Eats Xander
The One Where Buffy Dates Owen
The One Where Xander Acts Like He Belongs In A Zoo
The One Where Angel Talks About Himself
The One Where Willow Dates A Robot
The One With The Puppet
The One Where Bad Dreams Come True
The One With The Nobody
The One Where Buffy Dies (the first time)

Shall I go on?

ZachsMind | May 03, 23:31 CET

Ghost Spike - That was great! Now I can't imagine the actual ending be better than that!

Firefly Flanatic | May 04, 00:46 CET

ZachsMind please go on, Hahahaha that's great. And I doubt that any of us will beat M*A*S*H's ratings, they are projecting 80 million people will watch it, but I doubt it'll be that high. Doesn't anybody remember when Phoebe's twin sister Ursula was in alot of adult films, include Buffay the Vampire Layer. I just had to mention that.

tvmoobunny | May 04, 05:02 CET

Those Friends endings were...uh..interesting. The actual ending however is a little better, and would be a "good" ending to fans. I've heard rumors that the Angel finale is very open, I really hope those are just rumors. I mean it would be a great way for him to give the finger to the suits at the WB, but it would also be giving the finger to a lot of undeserving fans. Its fine, if the movies will be made, but the way everyone is talking I don't trust this Angel-movie business. I think a Buffy movie is sooner to happen, and SMG seems pretty busy looking into a few roles.

Gio | May 04, 05:24 CET

I remember Ursula in Buffy the Vampire Layer! That was funny.

electricspacegirl | May 04, 07:21 CET