I'm not entirely sure what we'd get from the tv movies the WB is saying they want (believe it when I see it on the tube).

The really cynical part of me says the WB *would* get a tv movie in the works, not caring about the quality, just so they could say to the fans "look we gave you what you wanted". I bet in the WB's mind, their ideal situation would be some no-name actor taking over the part of Angel, no Joss, and then they'll just slap an "Angel" movie together. Morons.

I have faith that 1)Joss Whedon wouldn't allow a hack job to be done and 2)that Boreanaz would downright refuse if, as he said, the "bar was[n't] high enough".

cubiclesatan | May 05, 21:46 CET

I'm happy with everyone having high standards for this movie to be made, because we all know the WB wont.

I think I kinda wish they'd bypass the tv thing altogether and do a big screen thing.

Cole Searr | May 05, 21:55 CET

A TV movie would not be the way to go. IMO, only a mini-series would be the way to go. I mean how much can you really get out of a Film or TV movie. No story arc, no story developement, just a glorified episode.

Why would SMG or DB want to come back for that? Also, don't believe the WB movie hype anyway. Recent comments by the actors just prove no official offers have been made to ME. Also, with talk of Firefly being a trilogy means JW will be tied up for some time.

If a mini-series does happen, I would expect JW involvement to be minimal. Not sure you could sell that to SMG or DB. So IF we are lucky and get a mini-series that would be it until the next Buffy/Angleverse series hits TV. We are looking at about 3 years or so down the road for that.

This is why ANGEL ending really blows.

DarenG | May 05, 22:00 CET

This show is too good for television. Here's hoping that the bar Boreanaz is reaching for is a major motion picture.

mai | May 05, 22:03 CET

I just think DB is being a primadonna in the same way SMG was post-Buffy but maybe I'm just cynical.

Mort | May 05, 22:11 CET

If the tv movies are financed, given more money, something James Marsters said is viable, and they did like 4 to 6 movies, that would be rising the bar.

SeanValen | May 05, 22:14 CET

More about the CNN interview: Contains casting SPOILERS

Katy | May 05, 22:32 CET

Honestly...sometimes it seems like DB just isn't into the character anymore. That's fine with me....I prefer Spike any day. If James Marsters would consider reprising his role, why is DB so reluctant? I hope the WB is serious , but if not and a big screen movie is an option, I hope all the cast could reassemble. I do hope for a spin off, but truthfully, like I said before, I think Spike's story and character is just as interesting or more than Angels so I would be happy to have a series with limited Angel appearences. It would be nice to get some type of movie special that would reveal the outcome of the finale and also clear up some major questions, but that may be a long time coming.

kathylovesspike | May 05, 22:32 CET

I don't think DB is being a "prima donna" - SMG possibly was, but not DB.

Think about it. DB's been doing the SAME role for EIGHT years. That's one year longer than SMG did for Buffy. He's had the strain of having to be the main draw for his own show, one that largely stood in the shadow of its predecessor, and his show has been on the bubble for at least two years.

Long story short: he needs down time. Why shouldn't he want to branch out?

There was a post here earlier about how Mercedes (?) was saying DB was pretty choked up at the final cast party/day of shooting. I don't doubt that he's grateful and humble for the experiences he's had as Angel. Just because he doesn't want to jump right into a tv-movie, one that could bomb with the way the WB is, doesn't make him a jerk or a prima donna.

cubiclesatan | May 05, 22:40 CET

I completely understand looking at this as a fresh start is a good thing and all actors want to move on after a while. (Even though some of us have to go to the same boring jobs for twenty years and not even get rich and famous because of it, but hey...)

But really, this is what, the third or fourth time he's spoken publicly since the show's cancellation was announced? And in ALL of those cases the only things he has to say is how happy he is to be done with it. I think I got the gist now David. Really.

Excuse me while I go and look up the interviews with Joss, James Marsters, Amy Acker, J. August Richards, Mercedes McNab, Christian Kane, etc. Ya know, the people who loved the show, loved working on it and will miss it and their coworkers. Somehow I feel better reading those.

EdDantes | May 05, 22:47 CET

It seems to me that DB is the kind of person who takes life in stride... They tell him the show is cancelled, and he says, "Well, how can this be a GOOD thing?" and he finds it. People want to interview him, people want to ask him about his feelings, and he's under no obligation to us to pretend to be anything than what he is - looking forward. This seems less primadonna and more Zen, honestly.

TheJoyofZeppo | May 05, 22:54 CET

I'm with ThejoyofZeppo on this one. DB seems to come off as someone that just flows with what he's given and make it work for him. I don't see the "primadonna" attitude others talk about.

And in regards to actors publicly acknowledging the fans or the end of the show... well, I haven't seen one interview with Alexis, doesn't mean he didn't love the show or care about it. So when it comes to judging the actors on that accord, it's really irrelevant. Anywho, here's hoping that, that "higher bar" DB speaks of can be reached and we can get our TV movies or big screen movie with the main character/actor still intact.

nychick | May 05, 23:02 CET

I recently read a day by day diary in the new issue of Angel magazine about filming the Damage episode. It included all the call and wrap times times over the eight day schedule. No matter how much you loved your job, those hours over nine months for five years, fighting time and budget constraints, would get to anybody. Although I do believe if anyone should be whining, it should be the crew. Not that I think DB is whining, he's just being honest.
Maybe his priorities changed a bit when he became a father. I don't imagine it would be easy to go to work before the kid got up and come home when he was asleep. How can I begrudge him wanting to take a break for a while to try something else and gain a little perspective?

[ edited by bloodflowers on 2004-05-05 21:29 ]

bloodflowers | May 05, 23:06 CET

"It seems to me that DB is the kind of person who takes life in stride... They tell him the show is cancelled, and he says, "Well, how can this be a GOOD thing?" and he finds it."

Please, that's not the point. You can take the good in everything and that's all fine. (Also, Zen is technically not a form of optimism.) My point was you can still say something nice about the show, about what it meant for you and your career and that you will miss your coworkers or something.

Really it's not that hard to say something nice as well. Where is it written you can't look back on the past with appreciation and nostalgia and simultaneously look to to future positively?

All he's ever had to say so far is 'whew glad that's over', and considering how many people mourn the show, I wish he'd say something nice. Look at the people I mentioned. They actually manage it. It can be done.

EdDantes | May 05, 23:09 CET

Is this the same DB who said that SMG owed it to the fans to come back to do his show? That you don't just say 'Screw you' to them? As an actor, you have a certain responsibility?

Now he's basically saying, "Well, I'm so relieved of this burden that brought fans tons of enjoyment. I don't feel responsible at all to continue this character unless it meets what *I* deem quality, and I feel like trampling on the efforts of all those folks who tried to save my job by saying, 'Ha Ha! You lose! And I'm so happy about it!'"

Ok, I know, it was a bit bitter, but it still really shocks me that DB reacts this way, especially since he's always been very grateful to fans in other statements(before the cancellation). And why do we have to hear it from OTHER actors that DB was touched by the fan effort? He's had MANY opportunities to say so publically, but all we get is this same crap about relieving the burden of his 'cross'. grrr argh

And yeah, he has a right to feel however he wants and even say it if he thinks it's smart, but for all WE know, James feels the same way DB does, but he certainly knows how to NOT make his experience on Angel and Buffy seem like a burden, and even acts like he'd be happy to continue it. Trust me, it appears a lot more grateful to fans than DB's recent statements.

Does DB have SMG-itis? "Oh, I'm not really interested in doing a movie." Then a few months later, "Hey, never say never!!!"

These are really the moments when being involved in the efforts to save the show isn't a great thing, because it's quite obvious(despite the alleged appreciation) DB would have felt burdened if the show was renewed.

DB, excuse us for trying to save the reason you have a career, and enhance the quality of television while we're at it.

Rogue Slayer | May 05, 23:12 CET

It can be done and maybe he will. We don't know what he thinks, so maybe he will miss everyone, but hasn't been directly asked that question in an interview, hence didn't say anything. Plus, I'm pretty sure he shed some emotion and expressed those feelings to the cast and crew at the wrap party as Mercedes McNab hinted at.

And again, Alexis has made no such public acknowlegement either that I know of so...

And Rogue slayer, if memory serves me correctly, DB said nothing about SMG owing anything to the fans. It was him specifically she owed it to since he guest on her show. Oh, and just to add, DB has been on the "View" and "Carson" a few months ago last year, and did express thanks and appreciation to the fans.

[ edited by nychick on 2004-05-05 21:23 ]

nychick | May 05, 23:18 CET

Ed and Rogue did you not read the BBC piece about him - where he said that he and James were working on doing an event together around Halloween to thank the fans. That doesn't sound like a primadonna talking and it just goes to show that an article can indeed be spung the way the reporters wants cause the bbc article also mentions him thaking over for Perry. So take everything you read about him with a grain of salt. If he was that much of a nhe would not be going to conventions, he would make sure he was completely out of their price range.

RavenU | May 05, 23:21 CET

I say have a break. Like all actors of cult television he'll want back in when the time's right, and the pennies are low. It might be the only ever decent role he gets in television. Type casting does not equal ca'ching.

In the meantime let's have a Spike series with that psycho slayer, and Boreanaz can have the occasional guest spot to keep the pennies rolling in. Put him in the pilot, end the cliffhanger to Angel, and give us more Mercedes!

David we love ya; come back when you're ready! But don't get a 'tude: you'll be back when the scripts are done, faster than you can say William Shatner...!

The Host | May 05, 23:30 CET

Alexis has made no such public acknowlegement either that I know of so

Alexis hasn't made ANY public interviews that I know of, so he hasn't had/been given/taken the opportunity to say anything about it. My point is that DB has had MANY opportunities to say something remotely NICE about his days on Angel, but instead he chooses to focus on how glad he is that it's over. The other actors who HAVE done interviews have all talked about how much they will miss the show, appreciated the fans, loved their time on Angel, etc.

well, I haven't seen one interview with Alexis, doesn't mean he didn't love the show or care about it. So when it comes to judging the actors on that accord, it's really irrelevant.

What accord? Again, I'm not saying DB hasn't said ANYthing, I'm taking issue with what he HAS chosen to say in his many opportunities. I feel it's relevant to judge DB on what he has said. Maybe Alexis feels the same way as DB, but he's got the sense not to say it. Or maybe he doesn't. I can't speculate on what he feels, because he hasn't said anything. But there is really no room for speculation with DB. He's made it clear.

Rogue Slayer | May 05, 23:39 CET

Bottom line: Anything you read in the media is a distortion of the truth.

David Boreanaz appreciates his fans OR David Boreanaz says he's glad that it's over?

If I was the editor of a media-house, I know which one I'd make headline news. That he appreciates his fan-base is a given. He wouldn't be coming to England later in the year if he didn't.

That he's exhausted after doing 8 years of constant television, who can blame him? The series has been cancelled peeps. He's got the rest. He deserves it.

The Host | May 05, 23:46 CET

Maybe I should go back and read all of these Angel interviews. I probably have missed a few; I've been avoiding spoilers like mad.

In any case, Mr. Boreanaz has seemed to me to be a guy who looks for a positive spin on things. The interview seemed to be less "these grapes are sour" (thanks, Cordy) than, "I would be up for it if the WB doesn't try to turn it all into CRAP."

I can respect that. More people than I'll ever know worked very hard on these shows and I could easily imagine not wanting to go back if I thought the TV movie in question was going to suck and only serve as a way to squeeze just a few more drops of blood out of the stone.

Sure, I'm lame. I've got the Buffy board game. I have all of the books. I've started collecting the graphic novels. It's a compulsion. And if a TV movie came out, I'd be glued to my set. But I'd also want it to be of the same caliber that we're used to. And I think Mr. Boreanaz is hinting that he'd rather not trash the work he (and others) have done by making something sub-par.

Ocular | May 05, 23:57 CET

Ed and Rogue did you not read the BBC piece about him - where he said that he and James were working on doing an event together around Halloween to thank the fans.

Well, if the event is free to fans, or at least fees go to a charitable organization, I'll agree he's being gracious. It's really the least they can do after so many people have donated their time, money, blood, etc to save their jobs, even though we weren't asking for it or expecting it. And I'll be awaiting the matching event here in the US. Or-hey!- a novel idea, DB can just SAY that he appreciates the fans and their efforts and that he will miss the show and it has been a great career move for him. That would be enough for me!!

Rogue Slayer | May 06, 00:03 CET

I agree with Simon that a video game would be great news and I also agree that it makes sense that he wouldn't want to come back unless the WB is wholly behind making a good movie. Keep in mind that this past season The WB cut Angel's budget drastically and I could see them wanting to throw some crappy sets together on the cheap. And I honestly think that if Joss put together a great script that was for the big screen all these stars, regardless of past comments, would be interested because the goal of most of them is to hit it big on the big screen and look at all the publicity they'd get.

They mentioned that he's got three offers for projects but the only one mentioned is the "When Harry Met Sally" gig. I'd be interested in hearing what the other two are and if they are for TV or movies.

Personally, I don't think he said anything wrong in this interview or past interviews or neglected to not say something he should've. I agree with The Host that it's more exciting for a headline to state that he's glad it's over than he appreciates his fans.

And I honestly think that the fans are more interested in a possible Spike series or a Giles (Ripper) series because look at past auctions regarding both stars and the money they got was unbelievable for someone to sit at their dinner table during a convention. I'd love for that crazy slayer to be in one too. If DB is relieved that Angel is all done, then I'm happy he's not heart broken over it but lets move on and concentrate on possible spin-offs with actors who still want to play these characters. I just hope if there are spin-offs they can find room for all the actors and actresses who still want to do the roles. Those are the ones I feel for because to them this has been upsetting and they aren't ready to move on. Again, I'm glad we had Angel for as long as we did but I hope it's not the end of the Buffyverse.

We've discussed before the many possible spin-offs and there are so many characters they could use as lead people such as Spike, Giles, Wesley and Willow and they have so many secondary characters that are also so great that I think it would be hard settling on just one idea.

Firefly Flanatic | May 06, 00:04 CET

Actually DB was taking about SMG being in the farewell episode of Angel not about her owing fans the rest of her career and life to playing the character of Buffy.

"If Sarah wants to come back for a final farewell — like I did for her on her series finale — that would be fantastic," he says. "Now, that's something for her to decide. That would be great, to have her. I think it would be great for the fans to see that.

"I think it's a responsibility to do those [farewell] shows and give the appreciation for the fans that are watching this," Boreanaz adds. "Those are the people that tune in and have made us who were are today. It's not like you do 50 or 100 episodes of a show and say, 'Screw you.' You have a responsibility to your fans, and that's important. You give as much as you can responsibly, as long as you're having fun with it."

source : tv guide online December 18

tantrums | May 06, 00:09 CET

Ouch -- with the William Shatner comparison. I think DB is a better actor than Shatner ever was. And I understand the point. However, Shatner is in his 70s and, as I understand it, will be in The Practice spin-off next fall. DB would be very lucky to be acting thirty or forty years from now.

It seems from a posting on another board that raising the bar higher for DB means film rather than TV. The poster provided a very short quotation from today's Toronto Star, and the key sentence reads: "But in an interview with the Star yesterday, David Boreanaz who plays Angel, said: 'No. Big screen opportunity, yeah, but I would say that's the only way,' when asked about continuing Angel." (I cannot seem to locate the text of the article on the Star's website for a link.)

palehorse | May 06, 00:24 CET

*sigh* EdDantes, it seems that you and I can agree on nothing in this life. Which is just fine by me, going to find folks who are like that everywhere, but I just thought I'd note it.

As for not saying a single positive thing about the fans? It's an article about a television interview. Something's bound to be lost in the translation. David has never been anything but open about his appreciation of his fans - the fact that he wants to move on to different pastures should not be taken as an absence of appreciation.

ETA: Also, re: Zen. I may have been crossing wires here - my intent was not to make it come off as optimism. Simply as a form of inner tranquility that David exudes even when he can be an outer goofball (this coming from what limited video footage I've seen of him).

[ edited by TheJoyofZeppo on 2004-05-05 22:28 ]

TheJoyofZeppo | May 06, 00:26 CET

tantrums - that quote is taken completely out of context. In it's proper context, he is not being bitter toward SMG, he is saying that it would be nice if SMG returned, and he is explaining why *he personally* wanted to appear on the BtVS finale.

So when you say "Actually DB was taking about...her owing fans the rest of her career and life to playing the character of Buffy," he was taliking about himself, not SMG.

You should be able to find the expanded interview somewhere.

Invisible Green | May 06, 00:32 CET

That he's exhausted after doing 8 years of constant television, who can blame him? The series has been cancelled peeps. He's got the rest. He deserves it.

I agree with the host on this one. I think most of his relief is likely to be from getting a break from an intense schedule. I think that was also the source of some of SMG's comments when Buffy ended.

By and large I don't feel that these people owe me anything other then a good performance. And they don't even owe me that since if I don't like their performance I just won't watch. I really don't understand this need some people have for gratitude from people they don't know.

pesoto74 | May 06, 00:39 CET

Well what if David doesn't want to do the movie because he thinks that the movies will do a disservice to the fans and to the legacy that the five seasons of Angel gave us. But seeing as I didn't see the interview on the CNN site (I checked earlier - no video footage) I can't judge for myself.

But lets be honest here, the WB ripped the heart out of the show. Jeff Bell is gone. Joss probably will never trust another network for years. The actors and crew got shafted to put it bluntly. The sets have been torn down. And the WB is hinting "Oh by the way boys, we might do a movie. Interested?". What would you say to that? I'd tell them to sling their hook unless I got a cast iron guarantee about the budget and final say over what would go in the movies. And I have a feeling the WB would want a lot more say in the running of these movies. They'll try and turn into some sort of event.

Fresh Angel movie: The gang fight a monster.
Fresh Angel movie 2: The gang fight another monster.

No thanks.

Simon | May 06, 00:46 CET

I don't get the DB slagging. I read the article, and nowhere does he say "I'm relieved the show is over." He simply states that lots of offers have been put on the table for what sounds like merchandizing, and possibly movies, which he isn't sure he wants to be a part of unless they retain the quality of the original series. Am I wrong?

I think DB has put in his time. He doesn't owe anyone anything. He's an actor. He's done his job, he's been laid off, and now he's got to find other work. I'm grateful for all the years of tremendous effort he put into Angel. I don't need to hear him say 'thank you, thank you, fans' to me because he's already thanked me by portraying this character that I love. That's what he was hired to do, and he acquitted himself admirably until the end. Nobody knows what's going on inside his head, really, and to presume one does from a few sentences in an online article is just preposterous.

What DB is doing is the storytelling equivalent of showing, not telling. If he truly didn't want to have anything to do with Angel, he would have quit years ago. Or at least let JW know he wasn't willing to sign on for a sixth season. Obviously he was up for it or the entire question of renewal wouldn't have been an issue in the first place. And I seriously doubt he would be talking about participating in a fan event in England with JM months from now if he didn't have a sincere intention of making time in his schedule to do it.

A presumption of DB's alleged 'primo don'-ness is only serving to perpetuate some copywriter's negative slant, which was specifically designed to garner readers, not necessarily to convey truth. That negativity could spread very quickly back to DB, who will very reasonably assume (since negative press tends to carry more weight than positive) that it's the way most fans feel. Personally, I don't want to be lumped into that group. However, if people want to increase the chance of him being discouraged from acting in future Angel projects, feel free to continue to speculate in this way.

I choose to focus on the excellent work he's done, and I don't begrudge his reticence in discussing the issue of Angel's non-renewal or any future AtS projects at the present time. I think he'll be more forthcoming when the show has run its course and his contract status, whatever it may be, enables him to speak more freely. Or perhaps he won't; it's his choice. Either way, he's not a bad person. He's just trying to get past the end of something that's been a huge part of his life for the past few years. It isn't for us to judge him. What the hell do we know about the complexity of the situation, and how he feels about everything? And what if it's too complicated to break down into 10 second soundbites that will probably be misrepresented or misconstrued anyway? How much would you want to talk to reporters if you'd just gotten laid off and were trying to figure out your life after eight years on the job?

I totally get that people are upset about the show ending -- god knows I can't go for more than a few minutes without thinking about it these days -- but bashing DB is not a productive use of energy. And if it picks up internet circulation, it can make Angel fans in general look as petty and ungracious as they're accusing DB of being. IJS.

Wiseblood | May 06, 00:51 CET

Well said Wiseblood!

cal | May 06, 00:54 CET

I think it comes down to the actors fearing that dirty word in Hollywood "Typecasted", and it hits more for actors doing cult series it seems than any other, most leads after doing their series for a number of years want to leave and get something else while they are still young enough to land a different role

I mean how long can you pull off playing a immortal vampire before it becomes unbelievable ? And age plays a big part in Hollywood for many actors seeking roles, he probably now that he knows Angel is over to see if he can get some bites on different acting jobs, and not be Angel for the rest of his career doing conventions and being billed with George Takei, nobody wants their favorite series to end, but eventually they do, I think DB just looks at it as finally getting the chance to see what else is out there.

Nuke | May 06, 01:04 CET

I agree, well said Wiseblood.

Firefly Flanatic | May 06, 01:05 CET

I agree with you, Wiseblood. You said it better than I could even attempt to. I am grateful for DB's 8 years of hard work and I'm also grateful for the rest of the cast and crew. I take interviews like this with a grain of salt. It was too short and too sound-bitey. I have read quotes from DB in the past extending his appreciation to the fans, and that's enough for me.

electricspacegirl | May 06, 01:21 CET

Yes, thank you Wiseblood. Beautifully said. I also second what Simon just said.

phlebotinin | May 06, 01:27 CET

And to quote someone from another board:

"in the new edition of Dreamwatch there is an article with JAR and he says when Joss broke the news to them on set about ATS being cancelled DB stood up and told everyone not to be sad but be very proud of what they have all achieved over the past 5 yrs."

Simon | May 06, 01:27 CET

Wiseblood for president. Or at least extra dessert with sprinkles.

giles (yes, it is my real name) | May 06, 01:33 CET

It's pretty obvious that Boreanaz appreciates the fans, that's not really what's being debated. Some people are just a little miffed that he would say he's relieved that the show is over while we're still getting over it. Of course the media is going report this to cause controversy, but the fact remains that he said it. Of course he's entitled to state his opinion, but someone with a little more tact would wait until after the show was over for a while to say they thought it was a burden, or just keep that opinion to themselves.

prufrock | May 06, 01:33 CET

I ditto everything Wiseblood has said. Wonderfully done Wiseblood.

Coll | May 06, 01:37 CET

"in the new edition of Dreamwatch there is an article with JAR and he says when Joss broke the news to them on set about ATS being cancelled DB stood up and told everyone not to be sad but be very proud of what they have all achieved over the past 5 yrs." Simon

That's really nice that he did that. He took a very sad moment and reminded everyone of the wonderful work they've done for the past 5 years(well 8 if you count Buffy). I'll be watching the Friends finale tomorrow but only because it's a show I used to love but have lost interest in the last couple of years. Joss Whedon has been a master at coming through season after season, whether it's your favorite or not, with great storylines and wonderful actors. They never took the easy way out and just started giving us a monster of the week story but consistently gave us detailed plots that intertwined with previous seasons. You can rewatch an episode of BtVS or Angel and always find something new to comment on. I like that DB has put a positive spin on and is trying to just concentrate on the work he did.

Firefly Flanatic | May 06, 01:38 CET

"*sigh* EdDantes, it seems that you and I can agree on nothing in this life. Which is just fine by me, going to find folks who are like that everywhere, but I just thought I'd note it."

Uhm okay, that's... nice. Haven't really noticed it before but it's... interesting to know you're keeping tabs. Or something.

"As for not saying a single positive thing about the fans? It's an article about a television interview. Something's bound to be lost in the translation. David has never been anything but open about his appreciation of his fans - the fact that he wants to move on to different pastures should not be taken as an absence of appreciation."

And here we go again. You say anything about any actor on the shows that's less than total worship and everyone crawls out of the woodwork to accuse you of lord knows what. I haven't said a single thing about anything in that paragraph of yours.
(And for pete's sake I am not 'slagging' him! Saying "DB is a A**HOLE" would be 'slagging' him,okay?)

I'm actually wondering if people are really reading what I wrote? Because really:
-I have said nothing about not being nice to the fans.
-I have said nothing about him being a primadonna.
-I certainly have said absolutley nothing about him *owing* me anything.
-I have said nothing about him being positive in the light of cancellation as a negative thing by itself.

And yes David has always been nice to the fans, appreciative and highly aware of their support. Never said otherwise either.

"It's pretty obvious that Boreanaz appreciates the fans, that's not really what's being debated. Some people are just a little miffed that he would say he's relieved that the show is over while we're still getting over it. Of course the media is going report this to cause controversy, but the fact remains that he said it. Of course he's entitled to state his opinion, but someone with a little more tact would wait until after the show was over for a while to say they thought it was a burden, or just keep that opinion to themselves. "

THANK you pruffrock. At least someone got what I meant. Because really, that's all I meant. I think it's also what I wrote, but....

I am mourning the show. So are most of the other people who worked on it. And just hearing that feels good, that we're not alone, that the efforts to show appreciation for the show are giving consolation to them as well. I'm sad when I hear Amy Acker say she cried a lot on the last days on the set, but it also feels 'good' in the sense that it shows how much she loved the show.

DB has always been very vocal in his praise for the show and since the cancellation every public word I've heard from him shows nothing but relief that it's over. (And as for any 'conspiracies' by the press, I don't think Kristin from E online, a big Angel fan, has any evil plots in her head while interviewing him, but to her he said pretty much the same things.)

It surprises me. And as I've already said, you can say all the things he's said and still add a line or a even a word or two about how much you liked the show as well.

EdDantes | May 06, 01:56 CET

Actually DB was taking about SMG being in the farewell episode of Angel not about her owing fans the rest of her career and life to playing the character of Buffy.



I never said or meant to imply that DB should play Angel for the rest of his career. I was referring to the fact that he, in the past, had always been very 'pro-fan'. Therefore, his recent comments(or lack thereof) have been surprising. Since the cancellation, the only mention of DB talking about fan support or being happy about being on Angel has been second hand. I have yet to read something directly from his mouth. Like I said, I like DB and always felt he was appreciative of fans. So his recent attitude is surprising. I've not once read an interview where he said he would miss the show and appreciated the fan effort. He may have said it, but I've not read it--like I said, only second hand, or third hand, as the case may be.

Like Ed has said repeatedly, it doesn't take a lot of effort to say something nice about what has been your meal ticket and claim to fame for the past 8 years. Stressing that you're glad it's over seems a bit.....unnecessary. I mean, Mercedes and Amy were crying. David was glad. And if he was anything else, I haven't seen it portrayed.

Of course he should be happy to have some time off. His schedule was grueling. I don't begrudge him that. I'm not even saying he can't be tickled pink the show is over, but it's just bad form to proclaim so loudly that you're happy it's over, and not mention the positive things about it.

He could take some lessons in PR from James. That man knows how to show appreciation. Is it possible that their different personalities play in? James worked the low-paying theater set for years, is a method actor who believes in the art and the wonderful connection with a live audience. David got his role walking his dog and considers it little more than just a job. I'm not judging, I think I'd be more like DB in that sense, but I wonder if their life/work experiences influence how they view their fanbases.

Rogue Slayer | May 06, 01:57 CET

I think it's understandable that David Boreanaz is relieved to be free of the binding schedule of a weekly series. And, I agree that he shouldn't be a part of any TV movies made by that "evil" network. However, if I were him, I wouldn't be so enthusiastic about the end of the show. The difference between David Boreanaz and James Marsters is that James recognizes that his career will never be bigger than his role as Spike. He knows that despite his talent and popularity among fans, this is the best role he will ever get to play. As a result, he is eager to continue his role in any form Joss desires. David, on the other hand, I think may still be under the delusion that he can move beyond his cult status and into the big leagues. As much as I enjoy David's performances, I doubt he will ever become an A-list actor. He's no longer the beefcake he once was and he's too old to be rediscovered by the mainstream public. The best he can hope for at this juncture are B-movies like "The Crow".

mai | May 06, 02:06 CET

I've not yet felt that way about actors, but musicians who keep saying how fab their fans are kind of get on my nerves.

If I were Boreanaz, I'd be relieved too, I think. Season after season not knowing whether your series is going to be canned? Must be stressful. Anyway, as I've said before, I'll never feel David, or any of these people, owe me or anybody else anything else once they've delivered what I think is their end of the deal: a good/great performance.

Caroline | May 06, 02:06 CET

You know, it's really heartbreaking to see the sadness, the grief that underlies the posts here. I wonder if the passion would be so high if this weren't Wednesday and we are all so very conscious of how little there is left of the program we all enjoy so much -- because we've been thinking about it all day, setting our video recorders, arranging our lives around the broadcast, etc. We're still waiting for the terminal patient to pass on, and we are desperate for something to hang onto -- and our nerves are all the more raw because in a few hours all we will have left is the two-part finale.

palehorse | May 06, 02:07 CET

I agree with everything you said, Mai! Sadly, the probability that these guys will get much bigger is slim to none. Great if they do, but I don't see it.

Caroline, I've never heard of someone complaining that artists thank their fans TOO much! :) Well, unless it gets to the point of fake, then that can be annoying, but at least they still make the effort.

Rogue Slayer | May 06, 02:11 CET

I just feel a lot of the time it sounds like something their PR person told them to say. Particularly when you *know* a lot of the time 'the fans' get on their nerves and they *will* make fun of them or roll their eyes.

There's one artist who keeps saying how 'smart' their fans are. He's probably never met the ones that stand at the back of his gigs just to get drunk, holler obscenities and pee in public.

That kind of thing.

Caroline | May 06, 02:15 CET

EdDantes - Oh, I'm totally for slagging an actor if I think they deserve it - I was the one who went off on Angel S5 in its whole. I just think that DB is getting something of undeserved rap in this case.

In any case, I think I'm misunderstanding you on this one, and I apologize for that.

As for the disagreeing thing... Well, it's come up enough times that it's hard for me not to notice. ;D

[ edited by TheJoyofZeppo on 2004-05-06 00:39 ]

TheJoyofZeppo | May 06, 02:39 CET

You know, it's really heartbreaking to see the sadness, the grief that underlies the posts here. I wonder if the passion would be so high if this weren't Wednesday and we are all so very conscious of how little there is left of the program we all enjoy so much -- because we've been thinking about it all day, setting our video recorders, arranging our lives around the broadcast, etc.

For my part, I don't think the fact that it's Wednesday means anything in how I regard DB's comments, or lack of comments. I forgot it was Wednesday until I realized I had a big meeting at work. I'm not sure that we're all arranging our lives around the show, some may be, I don't know. I'm far from a casual viewer(I dragged my hubby to see JM 3 times this weekend!!) but I think I'll be better after the end than I would have said on Feb 13th! I've accepted it and I'm sad that there are only 3 epis left, but I don't think that affects how I regard actors and their comments.

Rogue Slayer | May 06, 02:52 CET

I'm coming from a 'freaking bummed about the cancellation' place in my life, so everything I write concerning the show is colored by that sentiment. Just to clarify -- in case I was unclear or came across wrong -- nothing I said above was aimed specifically at any particular poster. I picked up descriptive words from many different posts as I went along; no insinuations or aspersions were intended.

I suppose what I'm reacting to with regard to this article (which, to be honest, I do read as being biased against DB) is the issue of an actor being castigated for his alleged lack of concern/care/interest in/regard for fan's feelings. It's distressing to me that people's anguish over the show's end is beginning to unravel in that predicatable way that so many things do, where a person or a network (and yes, I count myself inexcusably guilty of the latter) becomes the scapegoat/lightning rod/punching bag/etc. for people's misplaced/otherwise inexpressible emotions.

We don't for-sure-without-a-doubt know what DB really thinks about the non-renewal, is my stance, or his exact feelings at this time. We just don't. I can live with that, but I recognize that's not enough for some others. I believed it when RavenU reported that DB cried at the cast party, and so as far as conveying his feelings about the whole situation, that was good enough for me: He's really, really, really sad. I can relate.

Added to the complexity of the issue is the fact that we can't properly mourn what's still 'alive'. I mean, we're all basically sitting a deathwatch at this moment. It's the crummiest feeling in the world to care about something and be unable to change the course of its demise.

I would just wish that the fan community could look past the actors -- who are all trying to move on, themselves, and absorb this huge change in their lives -- and instead of tearing itself into pieces over speculation and unknowns, focus on the show itself, and be supportive of one another's grief. We're all hurting in different ways. I get that. My intention wasn't to point fingers or make anyone feel bad. You feel the way you feel, and I feel the way I do -- but that shouldn't overshadow what we're here for, and that's the love of this creative work JW and all the writers, cast and crew are responsible for bringing us these past five years. And love is what we need now, not division or rumor-based speculations fueled by magazines that don't add anything positive to the fandom. That's all I'm saying (or was trying to say). That's cool if you don't agree with me, in whatever way.

(I'm sorry, too, for the touchy-feely note if it bugs. It's not meant that way at all; I'm going to be a basket case on May 19th and probably for a few days (at least) thereafter. I've only been posting at Whedonesque for a few months, but I totally feel supported in my fannish obsession with these shows, and it's a great comfort to know I can come here in a couple of weeks, cry my eyes out, and feel okay about it.)

Know what's really sad? The actors of Angel will never experience the show the way we on the outside do. They can watch it, but they'll forever remember it as a thing they did, instead of a wonderful world full of amazing characters that they can immerse themselves in. It was never work for us. I'm so glad I'm on this side instead of theirs.

[ edited by Wiseblood on 2004-05-06 06:38 ]

Wiseblood | May 06, 02:58 CET

That last paragraph says it all really. I'm going to miss this show so much. Thanks to DB, JM, AD and all of the cast and crew for what they've given us over the years.

cal | May 06, 03:09 CET

Ed and Rogue, I totally got what you were talking about waayyy up there... I too wish I had heard more niceties from DB about the show.

Ed it also makes me feel good to read those interviews with the FG when they talk about how much they love the show, etc...

I wonder why Alexis hasn't yet given any interviews regarding the show's demise. Sure would like to hear Wesley's point of view.

And palehorse, nicely put. I DO feel sad about this. Not just because of Angel, but the fact that tv will be a wasteland without any Joss & Co. Thank gawd for HBO.

Willowy | May 06, 03:15 CET

DB ON WB
"THEY SCREWED THE FANS."

DB DIDN'T.

If DB said they screwed the fans, then he realises what it feels like.

SeanValen | May 06, 03:21 CET

I admire DB's posivity, he has menstinoed he's been glad to have played Angel for 8 years with a genius like Joss behind it, it was in the SFX magazine, maybe some of you don't read the exclusive intereviews enough!!

SeanValen | May 06, 03:23 CET

I suppose this is as good a time as any to finally say what I thought from the very first episode of Buffy. If DB fans take offense, I apologize in advance. I mean no offense, just think it's worthwhile to proffer an opinion that maybe a few others will share. Here goes...

I've always loved BtVS and always liked AtS, but *despite* DB, not because of him. I've never understood the sense in Joss offering a spin-off to DB and not to JM. DB, at best, is a limited actor, chosen, according to Joss, because some ladies in the ME office thought he was "hot". (Nathan Fillion, a far better actor, also auditioned for the part but didn't even get past the casting director). DB is one of the luckiest TV performers in Hollywood, and he should appreciate that fact. In the first season of Buffy, DB could barely act at all, making do with looking pretty and broody. He did improve over the years, but not much. I could go the snarky critic route and say that the only time he wasn't wooden was when he was a felt puppet, but that would be a cheap shot - and he isn't *that* bad. IMHO the Buffyverse doesn't need DB. It never did.

whirligig | May 06, 03:57 CET

I think Ed Dantes and Rogue Slayer have said what I think about this the best.

magdelena | May 06, 04:22 CET

I agree that James Marsters is a superior actor to David Boreanaz, but David has improved significantly over the years. Although I always found the Spike character more interesting, it makes sense to me that David was offered the spinoff and not James. James, despite his immense talent and stunning good looks, is a character actor. He doesn't have the whole generic tall, dark and handsome vibe that are typical of most leading men. Although David certainly isn't the best actor on Buffy or Angel, I think he carries his own weight (pun intended) quite well. His earlier performances can perhaps be attributed to the fact that he doesn't have the extensive training that James (theatre) or even Nathan (soaps) had prior to joining Whedon's universe. That being said, I agree that perhaps DB needs the Buffyverse more than the Buffyverse needs him (even if he doesn't realize it yet).

mai | May 06, 05:16 CET

mai - Thanks for the generous comments. I'm glad you took my own comments in the spirit they were intended - simply an expression of my own views and in no way an attack on DB's numerous fans. This is typical of the tolerance of the great majority of Whedonesque members.

whirligig | May 06, 05:25 CET

i agree with Simon and Wiseblood :)

buffyfanatic18 | May 06, 05:27 CET

I personally had a bit of an issue with this quote:

"I think whenever they want to revisit that character and bring it to a higher plateau, I would only be interested if the bar was [raised] a lot higher."

Now, I know it was taken out of context from the interview, and there are a hundred ways to interpret it, but to me it came across as basically saying: "I'll only come back to this character if they give me more to do than this crap I've been slumming with lately..." It seemed to me like an insult toward the series. How can the bar be raised any higher than the 5 years of stunning work that we already have? Am I wrong?

I certainly hope so. I have nothing against David Boreanaz and am eternally grateful for all of the hard work he has put in over the past eight years. He's an excellent actor and I certainly wish him the best of luck. I just wish we could see this entire interview, cause I have a feeling we'd get a much better sense of his intentions if we did.

[ edited by MindPieces on 2004-05-06 03:51 ]

MindPieces | May 06, 05:43 CET

I also think that David has improved drastically since his earlier days on Buffy but I also think his character is more subdued than the character of Spike so maybe there is more to David's acting abilities than what we think. I still think he's fantastic when he gets to let loose and be Angelus or they let the more humorous side come out.

That said, I do think James Marsters is a superior actor. And I think if the character of Spike had been introduced season one like Angel had we might've had a Spike spin-off instead of an Angel one. When they brought Spike in, he wasn't supposed to last too long and they didn't really have any long term plans for him. I think it was during that season that the talks of an Angel spin-off were occurring because I seem to remember when Angel got killed by Buffy I was upset but then I also knew he was supposed to be having his own show in the future.

I have wondered some times what they could've done with Spike in a spin-off and what the plot would've been about.

And after hearing that Nathan Fillion had tried out for the role of Angel I tried to picture him in the role and I think he would've done well. But, I have enjoyed DBs portrayal and I can't imagine anyone else playing the role of Captain Tightpants so I'm glad things turned out the way they did.

Firefly Flanatic | May 06, 06:13 CET

I have wondered some times what they could've done with Spike in a spin-off and what the plot would've been about.


It's a shame that we'll probably never know, exactly BECAUSE Angel existed. As it is, vampire shows aren't 'hot'. WB doesn't want anything to compete with Dark Shadows. Other networks wouldn't be interested in a spin-off, because frankly, Angel's numbers probably don't impress any execs. And saying, "Oh, this is a show about a vampire with a soul that is a spinoff from the other show about a vampire with a soul that had mediocre ratings, except this vampire is blond!" doesn't exactly sound enticing, does it?

I, too, agree that JM is a better actor than DB. DB's not terrible, but the differences are somethings obvious and glaring. And I think it's kind of sad that because DB got his show /bitter on/ that he doesn't even seem to appreciate properly /bitter off/, JM can't have a similar opportunity. I think, had it been an option, JM/Spike would have been a more deserving actor/character to have a spin-off. And I don't think I'm the only one. Just look around, JM has surpassed DB in popularity rather quickly, and I think there are more Spike fans than Angel fans--though I'm both, but I am partial to Spike.

I can't imagine anyone else playing the role of Captain Tightpants so I'm glad things turned out the way they did.

Can you imagine DB as Mal? He'd have split those tightpants a long time ago!! Ok, cheap shot....

EdDantes | May 06, 06:35 CET

Captain Tightpants? Didn't Leonard Nimoy say that they referred to Shatner (as Kirk) on set with that name? I just KNOW I read that somewhere.

As an aside, I have to say that I find it really amusing that some of you occasionally compare DB with Shatner. I've told my husband countless times that I feel sorry for David because he's suffering from "Shatner Syndrome." I take it to mean from you guys that he's being hammy, but I mean it in the way that he's gotten puffy and big-headed physically. His head really did get bigger. Look at the dvds!

Ennyway, I've enjoyed this thread immensely.... I sure wish we had at least 2 front pages before having to go into the archives. All the topics I like get bumped off so quickly!

Willowy | May 06, 06:36 CET

Oops, that last EdDantes post is mine, so any flaming about DB's splitting pants should be aimed at me!! :)

I take it to mean from you guys that he's being hammy

I don't think DB has become hammy, I thought people were referring to the fact that he's probably only ever going to be known as Angel, and his attitude isn't the greatest about something that gave him a career and made him a name. And maybe he'll only have a life on the convention circuit. Or Priceline commercials.

Rogue Slayer | May 06, 07:00 CET

I am so sick of hearing people talk trash on SMG. I am a huge fan of hers and DB's. Can't we just leave the bull to the WB and show love for ALL of the wedonverse actors?? Sarah Michelle Gellar owes none of us anything. Just let her be.

farbehindch | May 06, 07:08 CET

Also, the things I am reading on this thread about DB are SO mean. What would people say about all of you if you were on tv and in the spotlight. Maybe we should all try to be a little nicer. Sitting around and finding something to bash is really rather pathetic. It doesn't paint any of you in a good light. And on another note- talking about DB being fat or whatever - how do you think that makes those bigger people who post here feel? You talk about his weight and he isn't even that big. There are those of us who are reading your comments who are bigger. Think about it

[ edited by farbehindch on 2004-05-06 05:39 ]

farbehindch | May 06, 07:16 CET

yeesh!

Didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings!!!!

Sad now. :(

Willowy | May 06, 08:10 CET

It's funny, but I see DB as more of a Harrison Ford- than a Shatner-type. He even physically resembles HF on occasion (see his expressions during his conversation with the tree demon in "Conduit" -- the part when it jams a root through his chest). He's very funny and quick on his feet with the quips, although he rarely gets to show that side of himself as Angel. I think he's got a great comedic career ahead of him if he gets the right roles. (Edited to note: And the sort of roles that HF is aging out of wouldn't be bad for DB's range, either. DB as Matt Decker in Blade Runner? I could see that. Older Indiana Jones-variety adventure flicks? Why not? And certainly thriller/espionage/kick-ass action films.)

Surely he's as talented as Matt LeBlanc, and look at that guy -- he's played Joey forever on Friends and now he's going to play him even longer in a spin-off? Talk about typecasting. Eight years of major development as a vampire-with-a-soul is nothing compared to a decade as a ... well, not a very bright guy. ;)

Because the character of Angel is so stoic and subtly played, it's natural that DB would tend to be underestimated, particularly if his style of acting is compared to JM's (and JM is excellent, no question). They're both perfectly cast for their respective characters, but I think DB is a lot better than people tend to give him credit for because he isn't as flashy in some ways as JM.

DB plays Angel with a 3-D substantiality and an emotional gravitas that few male leads with his limited early acting experience could have grown to pull off in such a relatively short period of years. Sure the casting department went bonkers when they saw him, but he looked like a vampire that Buffy Summers would have fallen for: Tall, dark, handsome and evil (or good, or any shade of gray between the two).

Both of them will go on to do good work, I feel sure, but of the two I expect DB to really surprise people down the road -- maybe even from behind the camera instead of in front of it. Based on the number of his appearances in recent years, JM is more likely to continue working the convention circuit, if you ask me (not that that's a bad thing, necessarily. But it is a bit, dare I say, Shatneresque.... :).

[ edited by Wiseblood on 2004-05-06 07:18 ]

Wiseblood | May 06, 09:10 CET

He's definitely a better actor than Matt LeBlanc! I think it would be great to see him be able to find a great role in a comedy. When he was allowed to play up the comedy as Angel, he's always been quite enjoyable. My favorite scene is the one where they all think they are teenagers again and he's in the bathroom realizing he's a vampire and he keeps morphing in and out of his vamp face. He was so funny in that scene. I'm sure he'd shine in a role that let him show his funny side. He's very bubbly when I've seen him on talk shows and I do think he's had to tone down his personality quite a bit to play the role of Angel.

And yeah, I could see him in a Harrison Ford/Indiana Jones type of role easily.

And in tonight's episode he and James were brilliant together as a comedy team and I'm glad they did this episode just so we could see them playing so well off each other even though some think the episode was a filler one.

Firefly Flanatic | May 06, 09:16 CET

My favorite scene is the one where they all think they are teenagers again and he's in the bathroom realizing he's a vampire and he keeps morphing in and out of his vamp face.

blwesselsThat was a hysterical scene! I remember holding my sides, in actual pain I was laughing so hard (between that and AD's 'nobody scream -- or touch my arms!' it's a wonder I didn't end up with a hernia before the hour was up).

He and JM were splendid together in TGiQ, but then I think they're always splendid together. They've got fab chemistry, and I wouldn't mind seeing them work together someday in a non-Whedonverse capacity. Can you imagine them as a Jackie Chan/Owen Wilson comedy/fighter duo?

Wonder if one of the other projects DB mentioned is a role in Serenity, as was rumored a week or so ago. That would be neat, especially if he gets to let his 'bad boy' out. I'd love to see him, NF and AB square off. The quips, they would be a'flyin'.

Wiseblood | May 06, 09:32 CET

I agree with Wiseblood that DB is very underrated as an actor, and I think it's mostly due to the fact that his character is often Mr. Broods A Lot. You truly have to pay attention to notice the dimensions he brings to the role because the work is so subtle. It's the same reason that quietly powerful performances rarely win Oscars/Emmys over those that require tons of histrionics. It doesn't mean that the "showy" performances are any better.

I also agree with farbehindch -- the knocks against DB's weight are cheap, tacky, and well below the usually intelligent discussion found around these parts.

MindPieces | May 06, 10:23 CET

Can't we just leave the bull to the WB and show love for ALL of the wedonverse actors?? Sarah Michelle Gellar owes none of us anything. Just let her be.

Oy, another one. Why exactly do we have to love all the actors? Especially when they don't deserve it? And, hon, you haven't seen SMG bashing yet. If you're going to jump to her defense at the slightest mentions as in this thread, then be ready for when people have more negative things to say, because it happens. Some people aren't apologists for every perceived slight, and some people even mention negative aspects of her personality. Just be prepared.

Sitting around and finding something to bash is really rather pathetic. It doesn't paint any of you in a good light. And on another note- talking about DB being fat or whatever - how do you think that makes those bigger people who post here feel? You talk about his weight and he isn't even that big. There are those of us who are reading your comments who are bigger. Think about it


What you consider bashing and pathetic is considered conversation to some. And I, for one, don't care what kind of 'light' it paints me in. I'm here to discuss, not make life-long bussom buddies. I don't bash posters, but I don't go out of my way to agree with everyone and make it Smile Time around here. This would be a boring board if everyone agreed.
And the mentions of DB's weight were jokes. He's in *far* better shape than I am or ever will be, yet amazingly, I'm not offended at my comments. And it's mostly funny because vamps are supposed to look the same as when they were turned. Obviously DB's weight gain since Buffy season one is noticeable. But DB's a human, and human's bodies change. Vamps generally don't. He plays a vamp. His body's changed drastically. Hence the funny.
It's not quite going, "DB's a fattie fattie, two by four," so take a deep breath.

We're not all going to agree here. We don't all give love to all the actors--if you want that, go to an actor fan forum. We are all here because we give love to the man that is Whedon, or at the very least his projects. Prepare for some discourse and discord. It's the beauty of bringing all these different folks together. Think about it.

the knocks against DB's weight are cheap, tacky, and well below the usually intelligent discussion found around these parts

Obviously we've been reading different threads, because I've seen some pretty darned tacky comments. And see my above comment on his weight.

Rogue Slayer | May 06, 10:37 CET

farbehindch, this is a perfectly lovely discussion here. Try not to derail it.

Caroline | May 06, 13:23 CET

Rogue Slayer, you hit the nail on the head!

I'm in perfect agreement with just about everything you've said on this thread. You and your hubby, both!

And Caroline, THANK you very much. I was one of those who made a Shatner crack and although it was in the context of feeling sorry for DB, it still offended, and it wasn't meant to.

I like being able to express any opinion that I have on this board without being made to feel guilty. That's one of the reason's I love this place.

Willowy | May 06, 19:30 CET

I'm one who will defend people if I think things have been extreme and I didn't really read anything like that on this post. And I LOL when I read Rogue Slayers comments about DB would have "split those tightpants a long time ago" because it was a zinger and it was funny. I'm very overweight and in horrible shape and I didn't take it as a personal insult to fat people everywhere. And I adore DB and I think he's incredibly sexy even with his more fuller face. But you'd have to be blind to not have noticed the difference between his beginnings on Buffy and the way he looks now. And people will and have commented on that and will continue to do so.

I'd love to see JM and DB in some non Whedonesque movie in the future. They are a great team and play off each other brilliantly and really seem to have a good time together. I know there have been a lot of negative comments about JM joining the cast but I am so happy he did because it has opened the door for more comedic opportunities for Angel, which we hardly ever got to see and even the more serious scenes between the two of them have been fantastic as well.

Firefly Flanatic | May 06, 20:19 CET