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May 06 2004

Herc gives 'The Girl in Question' 4.5 stars.

Umm.. Amy was quite creepy tonight with that switching to and from and I've seen her in interviews and know that she doesn't sound like the sweet Texan girl she once portrayed but I didn't know that she was so talented. That was one freaky thing she had going on and I hope to see it sometime soon again before the finale but I gotta know.. why the hell didn't the MoG contact the Burkles regarding Fred's death!? Still. I enjoyed their part in this episode. *goes to rewatch it*
What could they have said to the Burkles? "Um, sorry to have to tell you this, but your daughter died. And we can't give you the body for the funeral since it's been inhabited by an ancient demon-god-king with a bad attitude." I just don't think anyone wanted the job to tell them.
It's true, but it does make me feel bad, since it was Fred's dying wish that Wesley lie to her parents. I imagine, though, that it got forgotten in the immediate wake with Illyria and all, and after that it may not have occurred to them.
Once more I find that Herc overrates an episode...he does seem to give higher scores to the "funny" episodes doesn't he? Outside of some funny bits, some nice directorial bits by David Greenwalt, the creepy Fred/Illyria stuff and the large bosoms of the Italian CEO of the Wolf, the Ram & the Heart, this was exactly the sort of filler episode which doesn't resolve anything that I had been afraid of. It was nice to see Dru, Darla & Andrew one last time...I just wish it had been a better episode. Oh well...it's still better than 99% of what is on TV these days. 2 more to go and there is nothing about that which doesn't suck.
Oh yes, BIG kudos to Amy Acker tonight. That was just FREAKY tonight hearing Illyria's voice out of Fred's body. Just amazing. Her voice gets like an octave lower and then her body posture just changed to that of Illyria's even while she was keeping Fred's form. Loved it.

And then the comedic duo that was Angel and Spike. OMG. Priceless!

Definitely a "filler" and fluffy episode, given what's coming up, but still a good one.
I think it was an excellent episode, but not that good. I really liked Amy Acker tonight. I thought it was amazing. The way she switched. It gave me shivers. I miss Fred. And Cordy. I think that's why the episode was so good (IMO). It brought back some of the humour that I thought was missing. But that's just me. :)
I thought the episode was hilarious, but not that great. It could have been better, but you work with "who" you have. It let Angel/Spike come to an understanding concerning their rivallry. I am satisfied that it does not shut the door on anything ... keeping it open for anything in the future and gives the fans a sense of "unsettled peace".(IMhO):)

[ edited by magdelena on 2004-05-06 06:20 ]
Herc upgraded it to 5 stars. I don't get it. I loved the episode but it certainly, imo, doesn't rate better than Underneath. Whatever.
Herc changed his grade to a FIVE.

"no kiss-kiss?"
I agree. It was a good episode but not a great one. I loved Angel's line about cookie dough. And I gotta say, I'm a bit disappointed that Buffy didn't let herself "bake" longer!

Amy Acker was incredible and creepy. Poor Wes. But they should have called her parents. After all, the Burkles were very good about accepting demons the last time they were on.
When Fred appeared at the door, I actually shivered. A fantastic moment in an otherwise fluffy episode.

[ edited by fraying on 2004-05-06 08:13 ]
Question: Why would Herc want a Jenny Calendar appearance?
Sorry guys, I have to agree with Herc on this one. How could this possibly be deemed a filler episode? Maybe to the seasonal Wolfram & Hart arc, sure -- but this helped to beautifully wrap up a love triangle that has been a hugely important part of Jossverse history. It was hilarious, poignant, creepy, wonderfully directed, and just full of those shout-outs to past seasons that I've come to live for. I really didn't know if they could achieve emotional closure on the Buffy issue without Buffy, but somehow they pulled it off. This just may be one of my favorite Angel episodes of all time.
Hilarious is all I can say! And Yea! for putting the Buffybint behind them....well, sorta. Some interesting things I noticed:

Maybe Spike finally accepts Buffy loves him, at least in some form. But will Buffy find out, via The Immortal, that Spike is still alive? Probably not, but interesting....

Debunking a long held belief, apparently neither Spike nor Angel had Dru and Darla in bed together! I would have thought surely Angel would have had Dru and Darla together in the early days!!

Buffy's eyes are blue, not 'hazel' like so many fics contend.

Spike is no longer the best sex Buffy has ever had..... :(

So Angel IS dating Nina, and apparently more(according to the trailer for next weeks epi). Does it bug anyone else that the main character of the show is having a romance off-screen? I mean, if they're not going to do it for the Buffy/Riley thing(which SO needed to be off-screen), why do it now? Angel's romantic life has been a big issue in his life as long as we've known him, and now they decide to just let it be a minor side issue?

Not enough Darla and Dru, but what there was was great!

Poor Spike's coat!

Ciao!

Way too many great quotes, but one of my favs:

"Sleeping together is not a relationship."

"It is if you do it enough times."
I don't know. I never bought into the Buffy/Spike thing...kinda how I never bought into the Angel/Cordy thing. Both always seemed really contrived to me. So I guess if one doesn't buy into the love triangle, this episode just doesn't worked. The episode was well written, well acted & well written but I could not, and have never been able to, get away from the feeling that the Buffy/Angel/Spike thing was a square peg being forced into a round hole.
Man, sorry to go against the grain but I loved this one. At least as funny as Smile Time. In fact both of those rank in my top 5 of funny Buffy/Angel verse episodes ever. (Sounding like comic book guy. Great.)

Frankly I should have made a bet. About half a season ago I said Buffy would have some guy in italy and Spike and Angel would both be out in the cold. Of course....no bet. Damn.

And apart from an appearance by Sarah, I really couldn't have asked for a more perfect 'solution' to this whole triangle. The rivalry soon mostly forgotten as they are both so incredibly in the same ship on this one. The introduction of the Immortal, (And I knew we wouldn't get to see him either!) long time source of humiliation and emasculation for the two only added to that.

Favorite moments and lines? Too many to mention!

-How they both gave each other a little chin up in the flashback. "He's gonna be sorry he crossed Angelus!" - "OR William the Bloody!" Just cute how there was some male bonding in their past after all.

-"Blood feud! Nothing under blood feud?"

- The entire scene where they discover Darla and Dru have been...'had'. Concurrently. "He violated our women!" - "Well, he didn't really..." - "VIOLATED!!"

-The slo mo 'you hit me?' bit. Hah!

-"Filthy gypsies. PTEUY! We shall speak of them, NO MORE!"

-Poor ole Spikey saying out loud. "Probably never had a chance". Echoeing his talk with Riley in S5. His look when Andrew says "She loves you both". Good one, James.

-Angel's rant on the whole cookie dough thing! Is Buffy done baking? Is the Immortal having warm cookies? And Spike's look when he wonders what Angel's on about with the dough!

-The explosion! Spike's coat is gone! I was actually a little upset. Just like Spike. That is THE coat! And then he puts on a new one and it's nothing but funny. And don't get me started on Angel's jacket. Damn both David ad James' comic timing and expressions are priceless. They both excel at it.

-Andrew. Teaching Angel and Spike a bit about being a little 'cooler' in life on the women front! And not gay after all. I kept telling my wife. Spike hugs not withstanding. (Notice he almost hugged back this time, hehe)

-'Can't we put her in a box??' Angel seriously considering. 'Nah, she's kinda strong...'

Ahh, man good stuff. I'm terribl missing this show already. Oh yeah, and Am was amazing. It was sad and freaky to see Amy doing Illyria doing Fred. Especially where she switched back and forth near the end. Poor Wes. And man what was she thinking? "I....wish to explore it further". Hey she can explore it with me! Just kidding. Really......hmmm blue haired Amy in leather......urgghhuhuhhh...

Ok just noticed I actually quoted bits like Herc does. Feel enormously nerdy. Gonna go sleep before I get any worse...
Funny as hell episode especially when watched with a bunch of Buffy/Angel fanatics. Bundles of fun and laughter was had by all, with a few snorts here and there.

Angel's cookie dough speach and Spike's reaction to it like he thought Angel was on crack or something and had no idea what the hell he was going on about was priceless. Then Andrew ask if Angel is crying to which Spike said "No", then looked at Angel again and said "Not Yet". Don't think I've laughed that hard since "Smile Time".

Oh, and both vampires realized they need to move on and said they were gonna move on, but truthfully, the two of them are lost causes. If Buffy comes to LA and says she's finished baking, they'd both be all over that even if they were newly attached to some new love interest. Poor bitches!! They're sooo whipped!
Invisible Green | May 06, 07:56 CET - Question: Why would Herc want a Jenny Calendar appearance?

My guess would be that he saw Robia LaMorte at the convention in Cleveland and is still crushing on her, so he wants to see her more.
i loved this episode; it really was the last chance for something not so serious, yet it still had the Illyria/Fred switches going on. so we had a little of both, and i for one loved the jokes and the way Spike and Angel played off each other. it was i believe a good way to sum up the B/A/S triangle without really closing any doors, which really is what we all wanted right? right :)
I'm with Mindpieces and EdDantes here, loved this one. It was hilarious and I definitely did not see it as filler. I actually think it worked well to never have Buffy in the ep at all (well, except for the twirley haired stand-in). That made it all about Angel and Spike, and how they're dealing. If She had been in the ep it would have been all about "her."

I'm glad they never showed The Immortal, but half expected to see some Nerdy Dweeb (sorta like Andrew) if they did show him.

Best of all, to be told by a loser to get over it and for Andrew to go all James Bond and walk out the door on the arms of TWO lovely ladies...

The "triangle" is now resolved, like magdelena said, with a sense of "unsettled peace." As it should be.

[ edited by tkent on 2004-05-06 13:42 ]
It could end right now and I'd be happy. Except for the part about it ending. The Sopranos meets one of the Pink Panther movies played out by the comedy team of Boreanaz and Marsters. I loved the score; the music was half the delight.
Amy Acker was incredible again, but Alexis Denisof... Ohhh he doesn't even have to say a word. I see Wesley's pain. I feel Wesley's pain.
I was unspoiled so seeing Andrew again made my day. Tom Lenk is a national treasure.
Only two more? "Son of a b*tch!" Part of me just wants to get it over with and end the pain, but a big part is trying to reason that if I don't watch the final episodes, technically it's not over.
Something funny that I just realized - Buffy and Drusilla have now shared 3 lovers. I bet they have fun having "Sex and the City"-like conversations about that.
Great epsiode! Loved it. Loved it.

Loved the Fred/Illyria merry-go-round. It seems that Amy is really showing of her acting chops this season...which makes me very bitter..but no need ot bring THAT up.

Loved the Dean Martin fight scene, it kept eerily reminding me of the last scenes of "The Wish".

Laughed out loud when Angels griped about Buffy's affinity to a guy whose "centuries old and may or may not be evil."

Damn I'm gonna miss this show.
Okay, it was fun, and I laughed out loud a couple times. But why do people keep saying this wraps up the triangle? All we had was Angel and Spike, tripping around Italy like pathetic schoolboys, utterly failing on their mission and finding Buffy, going home, and then having a sarcastic conversation about moving on. The whole thing was played for laughs. Where is the resolution exactly?
i did not like it.
I don't think there really was a resolution. Andrew informed them both that Buffy wasn't serious about the Immortal and was already starting to move on and that she loved them both. They then discussed locking her up in a box or putting a spell on her and decided that wouldn't work and they then halfheartedly said they'd move on.

I think though, they realize she is definitely not ready to settle down and that's what they need to accept and they should accept the fact that she may find someone else. That was my take anyway.

In the earlier thread that was the "official" discussion thread for the episode it seemed like the majority loved this episode. I agree with the majority. I thought it was fun, fast paced and still moved the Illyria storyline onwards. It also brought Spike and Angel closer together as they were forced to deal with the possibility that Buffy may not choose either of them and they've always been focusing on it being a major competition between the two of them. I loved the flash back scenes that showed them being more chummy and brother like and I feel the characters have come full circle in their relationship. When they bicker now it's more in a playful, fun mode and not in the biting trying to be hurtful way they were before.

And Amy Acker was just brilliant. Her flawless transformation between Fred and Illyria without the help of being in costume just shows how talented she really is. It could've been argued before that the make up was the convincing force behind the transformation but when she is wearing Fred's face and became Illyria it was more than believable, it was downright eerie and spooky.
Can anyone tell me the name of the Dean Martin song used during the fight scene? I must get my hands on that. Not in a sex way...
I can't believe I'm the only one who found this episode to be pathetic phoned-in filler trash. It resolved nothing, but perpetuated the myth of hope for Shippers that something can happen someday somehow between Buffy and (insert your favorite here). Trust me if this series continued, a season from now we'd see The Immortal and he'd be on the park bench with Spike and Angel crying, "where did I go wrong why won't she love me?" and cry in his beer. She's still cookie dough. The Immortal is just another oven she's walking in and out of. Andrew hinted that she was already tiring of him, and that he had his own faults as well. Buffy's far from being cookies. And that part I liked about this episode.

It was funny. It was entertaining. It dealt with issues that were long overdue and had to be tackled in order for this season and this series to end properly. However, the production values are what frustrate me. The editing was sad. The dancing between Rome and L.A. was distracting - the whole Fred/Ilyana thing was distracting and made no sense in relation to the Rome stuff. The Burkle parents' arrival was forced and should have had its own episode. Again indication that this series is prematurely ending - there's still far too much to tell.

Take the 'chase' scene with the moped. When they crashed into the sportscar - I've seen better editing work done on independent stuff you can download from Atom Films. Not for a second did I feel like I was in Rome. They darkened everything to hide the fact that it's all being filmed on backlots in Television City. Okay. That's always the case perhaps but this time it was so blatant and obvious it hurt my eyes. Usually I can ignore that. Here it just looked like Whedon forgot to pay the electric bill so the set was being illuminated by flashlights and jackolanterns.

They go to the Rome offices of W&H and predictably enough they use the same set they've used all season for Los Angeles. Just darken the lights and have everybody talk in terrible french/italian gypsy *ptoui!* accents. Perhaps this was to hide the fact that in the flashbacks, despite seven years opportunity to get it right, David's irish/scottish/english/canadian accent is still worse than Conan O'Brien's attempt at affecting Jay Leno.

Am I the only one who found this to be a Hope & Crosby Road picture tribute? It looked like a veiled attempt at satirizing all the high school politics tv series that are surviving Angel. All those Bev Hills 90210 clones where the men act like jackasses and the women drive the men crazy with indecisiveness. There are soap operas with less angst and whining.

Could David and James go any more campy than they did last night? I don't think they're capable. I was expecting a cameo of Shatner and Nimoy holding hands and smiling, more than I expected to see SMG. And don't think for a moment I WANTED to see SMG. I didn't. I like the idea that this story wasn't about Buffy. It was about the Boys. I liked the premise behind the episode. I just can't stand how it was executed.

Whedon brings back Dru & Darla for the soul purpose of having them squirm for thirty seconds in flimsy lingerie..? Come to think of it that was one thing I DID like. Just wish there'd been more of it.

Gunn's soul purpose in the episode was to set up the premise. Lorne had even less to do. This is what the network suits would have wanted this entire season to be: Angel and Spike spitting bile and taking potshots of each other. Preferably after a bomb left their clothes in tatters. I'm surprised we never saw a scene where both boys were topless at some point.

The characters were drawn as pathetic dweebs. Perhaps when it comes to Buffy that's all they are and all they'll ever be. And people wonder why she hasn't ended up with one of them. What coulda been an opportunity to once and for all bring closure to the sham of a triangle was left open ended for the uncertain rumored sequel(s) that may or may not happen. Leave it open and everyone's happy. Well, not this camper.

It was fluff. It was filler. It was pablum. And I'm disgusted that I'm the only one who feels he's had his intelligence insulted by a company that until now has entertained very well. Methinks this series was cancelled three episodes too late. I would have preferred Ilyria just killed them all and then burst into flames.

It's better than jumping the shark.
Andrew informed them both that Buffy wasn't serious about the Immortal and was already starting to move on and that she loved them both,

Blwessels, I saw that scene the same way you did the first time I watched it, but upon reviewing it(right after!) I don't think Andrew meant it the way we thought. He does say that the Immortal has his flaws(I saw that as a way of comforting Angel, not diminishing the seriousness of Buffy's relationship with the Immortal), the boys say, "Really? What are they?" and then Andrew goes, "Ugh...The point is, Buffy's moving on(I think he meant in life, not from the Immortal, because then he says:) You guys do the same. You might catch her one day. One of you." Then something about how they shouldn't spin their wheels.

I don't think he meant to imply that she wasn't serious about him. He just said he has his flaws. He also said she fell in love with him and is happy.

I think the 'resolution' was that all 3 of them need to move on and maybe one day one of the vamps will have Buffy, but maybe not. They can't just sit around pining or waiting for her, because she'll be long gone if they do that. They need to continue in their lives and maybe they will cross romantic paths with her again someday. I hope not, but that's the message I got. Couldn't really have Andrew going, "Get over it, you'll never have her," because that's a little TOO final, especially if we have movies in the future!

I don't know, just funny how I saw that scene two different ways and how drastically it can change the resolution feel!
I'll have to watch it again too - which I was planning on anyway. I did feel, even if my perception is the same or changes, that was the message, that they should all move on and if someday they're paths cross, maybe there will still be something there. The point is, Buffy isn't holding back on enjoying life and it is possible she will meet someone she loves more than them and they need to accept that and they need to just go on with their lives too and possibly find someone else to love too.
Did anybody, like me, for just a moment, when Andrew stepped out with the tux, think that HE was The Immortal? I shook it off in just a moment, but anyway. I loved this episode, and think that it will only be better with time and with repeated viewings. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the "best" episodes the stand-alone ones?

The "move-the-plot-along" episodes are great DURING the season, but afterwards, when you know what's going to happen, they just don't have the same resonance or replay value. This week and last week's episodes have everything that I love about this show: sweet fight scenes (last week, when the entire A-Team was slaughtered, sweet); hot women (the Italian Wolfram & Hart -- DAMN!); humor, both lol, cultural, and historically related to previous incidents; flashbacks; great acting and writing; and things that you know will come back to roost later (Fred/Illyria/Wes triangle (?)).

Sorry, this was a great episode, and Herc is correct. I'm looking forward to Busty Nina in next week's ep.
"And I'm disgusted that I'm the only one who feels he's had his intelligence insulted by a company that until now has entertained very well. Methinks this series was cancelled three episodes too late. I would have preferred Ilyria just killed them all and then burst into flames"

Zachsmind. Dude (or Dudette). That's taking it too far. I can understand if you didn't like the ep, especially because a number of people have expressed a similar opinion. But to say the show should have been cancelled because of that? Wha?
"And I'm disgusted that I'm the only one who feels he's had his intelligence insulted by a company that until now has entertained very well."

I'm disgusted by how you're suggesting that liking this episode shows a lack of intelligence. And that only you were 'smart' enough to hate it. It's a nice thing to say. Really. Thanks.

Anyway...

Yeah I don't think Andrew meant Buffy wasn't serious about the Immortal. "She fell for him all by herself and she's happy" seems to contradict that. Tell you the truth I never saw it as my wife says she saw it the first time. The point I think, was that Spike and Angel blamed it all on the immortal, their eternal source of frustration and 'losing out' but that it wasn't really about him. It wasn't about how cool or not cool or perfect or not-perfect he was. It simply showed Buffy is moving on with her life. She's living in a new place, having a new boyfriend. She's not stuck in the same emotional place that Spike and Angel were. Which suits the following advice he gives them about moving on as well.

"that was the message, that they should all move on and if someday they're paths cross, maybe there will still be something there. "

Exactly. I liked how he said that so simply. No one is interested in pathetic exes who linger and lurk. If they truly move on with their lives and accept that they may never be with her they'll probably be that more 'worthy' of her in some future anyway. Gee ain't we astute here, hehe.

" I loved the flash back scenes that showed them being more chummy and brother like and I feel the characters have come full circle in their relationship. "

I know! You know it was impossible for them to not have bonded a little over the 20 years they travelled in their vamp group. It still cracks me up. "He'll rue the day he crossed Angelus!" - "OR William the Bloody!". Yeah I quoted that one already but it was almost cute in a little boy-way, which made the contrast with how manly and powerful they were seeing it themselves even funnier.

Also, I think I've noticed a pattern in the complaints. It reminds me of people complaining after a (rare)Xena episode or something where she actually met a worthy opponent who kicked her butt (initially). And fans would just complain that they hated for her to receive even a single successful blow. Like she should always be perfect and invincible. (Something she was way too often anyway.)

I get the impression some people just can't bear to see the main characters be silly or funny or made fools of. For me those are often the best episodes! Nothing is more boring than protagonists who always come out on top in everything.

Also, this was not a 'filler'. Anything that goes into the characterization of the main guys, and that tackles the long standing emotional baggage of both the 'Bangel' and 'Spuffy' periods can not be seen as filler. An ep that says nothing new about the characters AND does not progress the plot of the season would be filler. This wasn't that.

Oh and: "Did anybody, like me, for just a moment, when Andrew stepped out with the tux, think that HE was The Immortal? "

Yeah! For a split sec I did!
I loved this episode, for the same reasons you all do. I just wish there was more time - I think the story with Fred's parents could have been a whole episode. And I can't get enough of the flasbacks with Darla & Dru. And the Italian WRH totally nailed that part in the few scenes she had - I'd love to see more of her. So...fantastic episode, just way too short!!
Well said EdDantes! I also loved this episode, so I suppose I should be checking my IQ points...
I is glad dat my iteligents is so low dat i is abel to njoy this episoud.
ROFL, Blwessels!

Maybe I need to go watch one of them there smart shows like Charmed or sumpin'!
"Well said EdDantes! I also loved this episode, so I suppose I should be checking my IQ points... "

Yep. This is how from now in they will test kids in grade school....show them this episode and ask all the kids that liked it to raise their hands...They're the ones that won't get the scholarships;-)

"I is glad dat my iteligents is so low dat i is abel to njoy this episoud"

Thank you for making my morning.....:-)

"I loved this episode, for the same reasons you all do. I just wish there was more time "

Definitely. For the whole series. James Marsters is right, they had enough to build on for a while. This show really isn't done. The story not told. Sigh....looks like it's back to the Jordan Levin voodoo doll today.
EdDantes, I'm glad I wasn't the only one with the Immortal/Andrew moment, and irish, please don't use say "Italian WRH", "nailed" and "I'd like to see more of her" in the same sentence. I'm married, and trying to stay that way -- that kind of temptation I don't need.

Few more things:

Fred's parents -- incredible actors. You feel like you've known them for a long time and that they each have great stories and depth behind them.

Something was ominous about the way Illyria agreed not to bring back Fred for Wesley. Threatening.

When I saw the inside of the Italian WRH, I laughed at them using the same set, both because of the joke saying that all the branches were the same, and because of the fact that the show just doesn't have the coin to just build a new set for one show, and didn't even use any pretense about disguising one. Nice.

Almost felt sorry for Angelus and Spike in 1894 when they realized they had been cuckolded. "Are we going to ride the pony again?" Damn, glad it wasn't me.
Did anyone else wonder who broke Andrew's nose the second time he answered the door? I did until I realized he was wearing one of those pore cleansing strips. Also, I hope to never again see Spike/William wearing 19th century undies. Yikes!
LOL! bloodflowers I was totally there too. I figured Buffy'd roughed him up a bit for giving the boys information. But, naturally, you're right, it was far more mundane than that.
One of the best episodes of any Angel season. I loved it. A sheer joy to watch. Too many highlights to mention well apart from Angel's fashionable motor racing jacket. And the Fred/Illyria scenes? Bloody hell, Amy Acker is one of the best actresses around.
I don't get where all the hate is coming from. I adored this episode. It was a great way to resolve the Buffy/Spike/Angel triangle without actually closing any doors. It was funny, smart, and entertaining. I guess my masters degree from an Ivy League university wasn't enough to prepare me for last night's episode. Apparently, I failed to recognize that TGIQ was an insult to my intelligence. Guess I should ask the university for a refund.

I suspect that the problem some people have with this episode is that Buffy didn't choose between Spike or Angel. But, seriously if you hated the episode that much, I suggest you skip the last two episodes, because apparently there's just no pleasing you.
Same here, bloodflowers! I thought they were showing that Andrew was doing all these things between Spike and Angel's visits, but they were still just missing Buffy. That is, until I realised it was a nose strip.
Touches like Andrew's nose strip is one of the reasons that I love Angel so much. Although for a split sec I actually wondered if Andrew had had a nose job. Weird. I, too, also thought for a split sec that Andrew was The Immortal. Angel's jacket was insane and I loved it. I do like the little advancements in Andrew's character. In the past his attempts at Spanish were risible. His Italian, while flamboyantly delivered, sounds halfway decent. I'm still not convinced that Andrew is "straight" because those two lovelies showed up at his door, but certainly he has learned how to clean up very nicely and can be impressive while retaining just enough of his old silliness. Love him.

As for the resolution/non-resolution of the Buffy/Angel/Spike triangle, I thought it was perfect. Nothing is resolved in any final way except that all three of them must move on at least for the time being. And thank god for that. I do think that Buffy is happy with The Immortal for now, despite his apparent flaws. But didn't Andrew go on to say that, yeah, one day, who knows? in reference to Buffy possibly ending up in the far future with either Spike or Angel? I'll have to watch it again. The "resolution" to the triangle was similar in tone to that enigmatic half-smile on Buffy's face in the very last frame of "Chosen" -- it left us all to delight in spinning the myriad possible future developments in our own minds should there never be an official resumption of the story.

And Amy Acker? Breathtaking. I loved how when she played Illyria playing Fred, her eyes would visibly darken -- I'd swear to it -- whenever she let down her "false Fred" guard.

Ah, but I suppose since I liked the episode so much my intelligence is compromised beyond repair and what I have just typed are the incoherent ramblings of a subhumanoid. In which case the fact that I can type at all is rather impressive.
Just one more thing to add - This episode has shown what I loved about this season, they can do stand-alone episodes, but still deliver a season long arc. I really disliked the last season of Buffy because of a season long arc and the non continuity of it all. It had too many episodes where it only contributed to the Big Bad, but Angel Season Five has episodes where it contributes to the season long arc (WRH and Spike + Angel), but in my mind was a stand alone episode. I have no idea if that made sense, but it's just what I think.
You know you can not like something and not be hateful towards it. I love Angel and think it is easily one of the best shows on the air. This season, after a slow start with the show trying to find its footing in new surroundings, has gotten stronger & stronger. I'm glad others found the show hysterical. I found a lot of the humor forced because I don't buy where it comes from, namely the Buffy/Angel/Spike love triangle. I also wish it had come earlier in the season and I wish it had delivered more of a resolution but I don't think it did. Whatever form Buffy & Angel takes next, be it tele-films or a movie, will probably bring up this topic once again. Still, all things being equal, and as I noted earlier, Angel is better than 99% of what is out there and I'm really going to miss the show. Best.
Agreed, toxiceuphoria. I suppose I can see how this was filler, but I have a hard time calling it that when you look at it in comparison to "Touched" from S7 of Buffy.
phlebotinin - Your comparison to the love triangle in this episode and the end of Buffy... that's how I see things as well. Having the boys come to grips with the fact that they finally have to move on - whether they actually will is still in question - is it's own kind of resolution. An open-ended resolution, if that isn't too contradicting. It's a kind of resolution that doesn't really mean finality, so much as it means understanding and acceptance of this issue. It's a resolution that allows the person to deal with a situation, new or old, and be able to grow past it, leading to new adventures.

I loved the Andrew moments, as goofy as he is. I knew immediately that he was wearing a pore strip on his nose, but it is funny to hear other people having different reactions. Simply because I didn't think of it myself.

Everyone, take a moment... when we first see Andrew at the beginning of this episode, picture that. He's wearing his Strong Bad t-shirt, a bath robe, and his hair is a mess. Now, pay particular attention to his hair... and look at just about any picture of Joss. Notice some similarities? I wonder if it was their intentions to make Andrew looked Jossed in that scene.

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