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Whedonesque - a community weblog about Joss Whedon
"I may be love's bitch, but at least I'm man enough to admit it."
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May 06 2004

Steve DeKnight posts at the Bronze Beta and says it was never his intent to poke fun at the hard core fans in last night's episode (which he co-wrote with Drew Goddard). His four posts are in green font.

"Don't know what you've heard, but Sarah was never going to play an active part in this ep. Not from the conception, the breaking of the story, or the writing of it. As for Tom Lenk (Andrew), I love the guy and I'm very happy he was in the show. We had talked about Dawn doing those scenes, but Michelle wasn't available."

I could go either way on the episode. There were parts I liked and parts I didn't like, and parts that really freaked the crap out of me. But I read through the previous posts, and I think that although some people didn't enjoy the episode, I think that some of the postings were really, really harsh against both DeKnight and Goddard.
oh, dawn would have been EXCELLENT! *sigh*
Holy cow, some of those Bronze postings really go over the top in my opinion. Of course, it's all just opinions, anyway, and people can't help having their own particular reactions. But I thought the ep was if anything an homage to the hardcore fans.....because who else but the hardcore devoted would get all the insider jokes and intricate references back to, in one instance, season two of BtVS?

How glorious that we love a show whose writers actually post and engage in discussions with fans. It's so unusual and so very cool.
I have to say that I have the utmost respect for the Jossverse writers and how cordially they handle the fans. I admit that I'm not sure I'd have a thick enough skin to be an ME writer, and just standby while certain fans ripped my work to shreds. Even as a fan I sometimes find it difficult not to explode and create a big burly brawl with someone who has wildly different opinions on the episode.

That being said, I thought that last night's ep was brilliant and a definite highlight of the entire series.
MindPieces - Couldn't agree with you more. This ep would have been a classic for Spike & Dru in a Felini film alone. Still I suspected it was going to piss off a sizeable portion of the hardcore fan base. Just mentioning the whole Buffy-Angel-Spike triangle seems to do it for some people.
" We, the people actually working on the show for many long, hard years, just wanted to use our last chance to tell a fun story and to show that yes, love can make you shemp if you let it."

It's as simple as that. Some of those posts made it sound like the writers killed a puppy and snacked on its entrails. I guess it's easier to pick apart someone else's work than create something of your own. There's constructive criticism and then there's just plain bitching because it's not how you would have done it. How arrogant. Mr DeKnight could have read some of those posts and decided to avoid any contact, but it sounds like he was keeping a promise to make an appearance. So very cool indeed.
It's interesting to me how the love/hate line for TGiQ seems to skew primarily along shipper lines. From all the boards I've surfed, most who are either B/A or B/S shippers (mostly the former) hated it with a fiery, blood-thirsty vengence. By contrast, the non-shippers tended to love it, or they at least didn't hate it.

Many of the non-shippers were more tolerant of, and even amused by, the triangle content than shippers were (I'm one of those -- I loved everything else and enjoyed the way they addressed the A/B/S embroglio, but I'm tired of the triangle. I guess it goes without saying that I'd rather enjoy the show for itself, not the couples who may or may not be together on it).

I thought that's what the Immortal represented -- a kind of metaphor for the way people look at things, and how they tend to judge situations based on their personal investment. Was he good? Was he bad? Everyone had a different opinion of him based on their own perceptions and personal agendas, yet no one actually saw him.

It's similar to the way fans are looking at this episode, and the season as a whole. Polarized by extremes anchored in emotion. Like Spike said about the tiny liquor bottle in AHiTW (which was ref'd last night), it's all about perspective.

The Immortal wasn't good or bad as much as he was something in between, which is a lot harder to talk about and understand. I think Angel as a show is exactly like that. When you try to break it down into simple black and white, it's silly. But on a gray scale, it's an orchestration from light to shadow and back that can be breathtaking.

[ edited by Wiseblood on 2004-05-06 23:17 ]
Excellent observation, Wiseblood. You have chosen a highly appropriate screenname ;) . Being a non-shipper myself, I enjoyed the episode, but, would carefully put myself in the category of persons whose opinion on the episode is, well, as you put it, gray. It's neither my favorite, nor my least favorite. But, I enjoyed it. As I've at least enjoyed every episode of Angel since the beginning. Perhaps that will add to your pool of informal research...
Loved tiggy's comment at the Beta: " know you've made it when people start calling you a hack." Somewhere, David Fury is laughing his ass off...

[ edited by Kansas on 2004-05-07 00:18 ]
Uh, where are Steve's posts?!
" Uh, where are Steve's posts?!"

You'll have to go to the Archives link and then click on the one that says Posts before Thu May 6 22:07:43 2004. His posts are near the bottom.

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