One reason I have issues with these numbers is because I don't think WB should be compared to other networks. The reason is that here in Rochester NY (and probably some other markets) you can ONLY get WB if you have Time Warner Cable. If you have regular TV or at dish, you can't get it (the dish may have changed this month though, not sure), so when they come up with these counts they're not taking into account all the people that CAN'T watch the WB because they don't have TW cable in these markets. I'm willing to bet if they made WB available to those without cable in these markets the numbers would be much higher.

WilliamTheBloody | May 06, 20:16 CET

What could have been a brilliant sense of closure to the whole Buffy & the Boys triangle ended up being pointless filler. They phoned it in. I want to believe this was a purposeful parody of all the shows that WB is choosing over Angel. I mean last night Angel & Spike were both out of character, acting more like a character from a Bevery Hills 90210 Clone than themselves. When Angel started pounding on the door screaming "we're champions! We don't need anybody cleaning our messes!" I couldn't believe it. It was funny but at the same time shallow and pathetic, like the crud that's being used to replace them (One Tree Hill et. al.)

If this is what would have had to happen to Angel in order for it to 'compete' and survive the mentality of network suits, please let it die. Whedon should run far away from television. He's too good for the medium.

ZachsMind | May 06, 20:20 CET

...did I mention I'm disgusted? I'm disgusted.

ZachsMind | May 06, 20:21 CET

That "we're champions" line from Angel turned my stomach as well. Sad sad sad.

fraying | May 06, 20:33 CET

I did laugh at the cookie dough reference, but the following bit about whether or not the big guy was crying..? Maybe this was supposed to ingratiate the characters of Spike and Angel in the eyes of some of the female viewers maybe? Or some other demographic whose head I don't think with? I don't know. I think a lot of last night just went over my head. I know it hit below the belt. Gypsies! *ptooie!*

ZachsMind | May 06, 20:40 CET

shameful.............i think i will just edit that episode out, and make one up in my head to take its place.

norman | May 06, 20:46 CET

I don't think we were suppose to take that episode seriously. I must be whacky, but I was laughing at them acting like fools, as JM called them.

twiggy | May 06, 21:38 CET

Also, like to comment on those demo ratings for ATS. That was really good and they are really close to SMALLVILLE, now.

I can't believe they are cancelling my show.

twiggy | May 06, 21:40 CET

I can't believe no one liked last night's episode. I thought it was fantastic. The Fellini/ Italian cinema references were so cool. The quick black & white flash of Spike and Drusilla repeating "ciao" over and over was hysterical. I really liked the concept of the Immortal. My only gripe would be changing Andrew's character so much at the end. I prefer him as a bumbling fool. I guess I respect a show more if it has a sense of humor about itself. Angel is one of my favorite things in the world but that doesn't mean I want it treated like a sacred cow.

vpecoraro | May 06, 22:18 CET

Actually, ANGEL outperformed Smallville in the 18-49 year old demographic -- the key one for The WB. In the overnight/Metered Markets for last night, Smallville got a 2.1/6 -- while ANGEL got 2.4/6

That's a huge improvement over last weeks', which had a 1.9/5, and signifies that people are tuning in specifically for ANGEL and not its lead-in.

After checking, 2.4/6 is the highest 18-49 rating for ANGEL since the third episode of the season, October 5's "Unleashed."

[ edited by SaveAngel on 2004-05-06 20:43 ]

Whedonage | May 06, 22:19 CET

I'm also incredibly surprised over the negative reaction to last night's episode. I thought it was fantastic. I think Funny is pretty much the only way you can go with the Angel/Spike/Buffy triangle at this point.

In any case I enjoyed pretty much every moment of "The Girl in Question" and you should too!

ringworm | May 06, 22:35 CET

I get the impression that this is going to be one of those much-rewatched episodes when it hits DVD, as it'll be easier to remove from the context of the Last Three OMG Episodes - and it delightful as hell.

TheJoyofZeppo | May 06, 22:36 CET

I think TheJoyofZeppo might be on to something. With three episodes to go, and the big boom last week, our expectations are higher. I know I was ready for some Big Bad Action, not our heroes recast as bumbling fools. If the show weren't ending, I I'd be much less annoyed at this episode. As is, it feels like the series just spent a third of its remaining time making fart jokes.

[ edited by fraying on 2004-05-06 20:41 ]

fraying | May 06, 22:40 CET

After reading through most of the recent posts, I think that those who didn't like the episode are in a vocal minority. But, I like minorities, cause I are one.

Disgusted? Turned my stomach? Shameful? Uh, yeah. No overreaction there.

See you next week.

brother_grady | May 06, 23:15 CET

I agree, TheJoyofZeppo. When I've got a little free time and decide to pull out my Buffy DVD's, I usually go for one of the funnier episodes, like "Something Blue" or the Buffybot one. You can enjoy them out of context from the big season arc, and still get a huge kick out of them.

irish | May 06, 23:16 CET

Finally saw it and enjoyed every second. That was a blast. Liked the pace of it too.

Caroline | May 06, 23:22 CET

I liked it a lot. I think the style of the episode reminded me of the first few seasons of Buffy, where the third to the last episode was more of a filler (season 2 "Go Fish" and season 3 "The Prom" which lead into my favorite season finales) With seasons 5, 6, and 7 I felt like the ends were so drawn out, I would have liked a little more filler and a more condenced finale in those seasons...personally. So I'm really excited to see what they do with the last 2 episodes...and who knows how these events will tie into them. Oh, and wasn't Amy Ackers perfomece great. When she came in the room as Fred, it made me so sad that Fred is gone, yet so excited to see her again.

Jinxieman | May 06, 23:35 CET

Why do people keep saying that this is closure to the Buffy/Angel/Spike relationship? They may be advertising it that way, but I don't think it is the end. There's still a future for this franchise and I think in whatever form it takes the Buffy/Angel/Spike thing will have to be addressed again. And if this was the end, how else was it going to go? None of them could end up together, that's obvious. Buffy has to move on. So do they. What else can you do? Then again, I don't know what's going to happen. Loved the episode, though.

FearsomeBrowMop | May 06, 23:53 CET

I loved the episode. Every second of it. This was their last chance to tie something up and give us one last laugh (I'm assuming) and the way that they handled Fred & Buffy was done beautifully. It's not like a hot mama like Buffy would stay single for long, anyway. Especially not in Italy.

Still. I could have done without Andrew. Wasn't he supposed to be in England or something?

Oh, and does anyone have ANY clue as to what song that was playing in the Italian night club? It was really cool.

Christopher | May 07, 00:44 CET

Can I just ask... who's Strong Bad?

gingeriffic | May 07, 01:41 CET

What I liked best? The scoot. Two vain old guys (sic) on a scooter (Vespa ET4? Anybody?), careening after a silly task that ends in wreckage? Spike wants to drive? Angel doesn't want the back seat? Metaphor much?

Also, OMG Amy Acker. I think Amy Acker now rules the Buffyverse. Wesley is like the straightest straight man to whatever AA's character wants to do. To be a offensive, Wes (not AD, mind. He rocks solid) is like the pole that AA is sexily dancing around. She tilts her head in Fred mode, and she's Illyria. Wow.

[ETA scooter facts. Wonk.)

[ edited by bogu_salias on 2004-05-07 02:21 ]

[ edited by bogu_salias on 2004-05-07 02:21 ]

bogu_salias | May 07, 01:49 CET

Gingeriffic - Strong Bad is a popular character from Homestar Runner. This is the same 'cartoon' that created Trogdor the Burninator, mentioned in Chosen.

Greyflowers | May 07, 01:59 CET

I thought it was a hilarious episode which took the mickey out of many things and existed on many levels. Those who hated it seem to be in the vociferous minority, especially if you read the largely positive comments on other threads. Which is all fine and good because difference of opinion is what makes this blue bauble go 'round.

phlebotinin | May 07, 03:17 CET

I thought it was nice the whole one girl we don't see (Buffy) and the other girl we do (Fred). The only issues I had with it was the fight scene in the bar in slo mo with the Dean Martin song - I'm sorry but every fight scene this season has been slo-mo, if I was them to twist it up a bit I would have done a fast mo to the slow song and incorporate some of the Buffy oblivious dancing with it - until you got to the dual punch in the face the it could have been slowed down until just passing below normal speed. I think that might have been a funnier scene. Also anyone wlse notice that David had a shirt on but James was once again shirtless - I thought that was to funny and poor James (but egads the boy does still look fine - even all shackled up like that - can give a girl ideas in that position - the tickle torment alone would be fun). Also one last thing to note - with all the FCC stuff going on I am extremely surprised by the fact that the WB SAP people let it get by when William uttered (and quiet loudly at that) the SOB phrase.

RavenU | May 07, 04:24 CET

Overall people who like it on most boards are in the majority by far. As for the ratings, still pretty consistent with what they've been since november sweeps. And Angel didn't cry. As Spike pointed out. But the not yet was a nice joke to illustrate how hung up both of them still were on Buffy. Big bad warriors, yet little boys when it comes to the women in their lives, especially Buffy. Not really surprising for anyone who's watched the shows...

"Nuns are his thing!"
"Yeah, those were MY nuns!!"

Ah, one to be rewatched often.

"Also one last thing to note - with all the FCC stuff going on I am extremely surprised by the fact that the WB SAP people let it get by when William uttered (and quiet loudly at that) the SOB phrase."

Yeah I still don't even know what's allowed and what not. I mean even in Friends can they say 'ass'. But nowhere are you allwed to say 'piss' apparently, or so I read. Which, face it, just means urine. Strangeness. But I think Joss got away with a lot on Buffy, Angel or Firefly sometimes. Flying relatively below the radar I think.

EdDantes | May 07, 11:01 CET

Another story about the ratings from rueters.

"Finale fever wasn't limited to "Friends." The WB's "Angel" (4.7 million, 2.6/7) posted a notable spike at 9 p.m. as the "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" spinoff winds down to the end of its five-season run later this month."

RavenU | May 07, 14:38 CET

And Variety had this to say:

"Also of note was a nice surge for the WB's "Angel" (2.6/7 in 18-49, 4.68m), which is nearing its May 19 series finale. It matched or set several season highs, building on its 12-34 "Smallville" lead-in (2.8/8 vs. 2.5/9)."

Whedonage | May 07, 15:57 CET