May 12 2004
More On Possible Spike Spin-Off and NBC debunking.
Moviehole hears from a new source about possible Spike TV movies. "Marsters is pretty keen to keep on being Spike. You can’t blame, it’s a cool character."
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The Host | May 12, 15:44 CET
DarqueGuy | May 12, 16:08 CET
magdelena | May 12, 16:29 CET
kathylovesspike | May 12, 16:58 CET
I've said it before I'll say it again: if you can sign on either Marsters or ASH, and then ANY five or six other supporting roles from the BuffyVerse/AngelVerse to pose as anything from high profile Spike foils in the plot to occasional recurring cameos, you'll have a recipe for potential advertising revenue. There is an audience for it. Gellar & Boreanaz don't have to make appearances. The franchise is in my not so humble opinion, solid enough to survive without them.
The reason I say Marsters and/or ASH is because to make this work you need a proven talent that not only has a following but also has the acting chops to carry off the tvmovie/pilot for a new series. I'm not saying Hannigan or Caulfield or Brendon haven't the chops, but they're not as much a certainty. Marsters & ASH are the safest gamble/investment from an advertising revenue perspective. The audience will be happy and the suits will be happy. Guaranteed.
Also, if they go with Marsters, you don't need Whedon. It'd be nice, but Joss can take a consultant or supervisory role. If they go with ASH, you definitely need Whedon at the helm and preferably writing every single syllable of dialogue, and RIPPER has to take place in England. Marsters has a lot more allowable variables, and unlike Dushku or Boreanaz, Marsters obviously is willing to entertain the possibility, so he's our best bet right now.
If you can sign Juliet Landau on the dotted line? Everything else becomes irrelevant. You won't need any other talents from Buffy or Angel. Landau and Marsters on screen together is a chemistry unparalleled. You could show them just dancing for a half hour, and people would tune in.
ZachsMind | May 12, 17:32 CET
I'd happily watch a reality TV show like Big Brother with spike and Dru just going about their everyday business!
brob1 | May 12, 17:46 CET
I think, to make a Spike show or movie work narratively, you'd need an Angel based springboard of some sort beyond simply its series finale. The character of Spike clearly feels attached to the Angel gang and cause, and recognizes his mission there after Fred's demise, and even if it's possible to put him on his own path, I still think you'd need Angel as a starting point.
Now, if DB doesn't want to come back for a movie, this is obviously a problem. I can totally see it working if there was some kind of guest starring thing going on in the first eps of this supposed Spike show, but without Angel kicking it off I just don't see a seamless, convincing transition.
In the grander scheme of things it's perhaps a minor thing, but this isn't just about popping the character into an amulet and making him appear among old, familiar characters. This is a rather delicate matter, in my opinion, as the later Spike stuff on Angel was lots about him actually finding his place as a champion.
SimonM7 | May 12, 17:50 CET
twiggy | May 12, 17:58 CET
I would have to mention the character of Angel to do what I have in mind, but I wouldn't have to include him, and of course I wouldn't just pop Spike into another amulet. There's something far better than an amulet. Also, of course the story would continue to be about Spike as a champion. Again, we wouldn't need Angel for that. In fact, Angel's in the way of Spike's growth.
ZachsMind | May 12, 18:04 CET
I'd prefer the old standby, a Spike and Faith show. And then Giles, Andrew, Wesley, and Willow(sans Kennedy) can stop by from time to time.
But I'm not holding my breath for anything. At this point it's still just talk. I'm trying to accept the real possibility that in after one week, I'll never see my Spikey in anything original again.
Rogue Slayer | May 12, 18:29 CET
The idea of a Spike TV movie fills me with giddyness. And yes, strong, successful males can say giddy.
MindPieces | May 12, 18:34 CET
Also, as twiggy said, if JM read the phone book, I'd be there! ;-)
cal | May 12, 18:35 CET
This next opinion probably would not be popular, but I personally liked how Marti Noxon handled her part in Spike's progression during season six. While I wouldn't necessarily recommend Noxon since there's still some bad blood there among some fans of the franchise, I think it's possible to find someone else that could helm a Spike vehicle, so long as Whedon was a contributor on a distant supervisory level.
However, Giles is best when Whedon's grabbed the wheel. There's nuanes about Giles that I believe Whedon alone can bring out in order to make a solo vehicle work. Whereas Spike's more ready-made and all you need is someone familiar with Whedon's past work who loves the Spike character enough to want to get it right.
To put it another way: a lot of what makes Spike who he is, is in the shows. There's empty slots in his past that could use some fleshing out but for the most part what we see is what we get. Even I could write a decent plot synopsis for a Spike movie in my sleep, and I'm not a professional writer.
However, Ripper is going to be a story about a middle aged man facing his mortality, and facing a past that comes back to haunt him. We've seen glimpses of this in Buffy the series. However, only Whedon really understands the darkness that haunts Giles, and to make Ripper work properly, only Whedon has the keys to unlock that darkness. In anyone else's hands, it'd be just another tale to tell. Whedon's got the magic touch when it comes to Ripper.
ZachsMind | May 12, 18:56 CET
[ edited by twiggy on 2004-05-12 17:17 ]
twiggy | May 12, 19:16 CET
Apocalypse | May 12, 19:18 CET
Simon | May 12, 19:21 CET
Apocalypse | May 12, 19:25 CET
And also, it depends on how Angel ends wether or not you can just jump into a different chapter in Spike's life. He has some attachments to Angel and his crew, but really, not that many. He's still there because he believes in the cause, but he can fight that on his own, like Angel used to do. And it's not like he and Gunn or Lorne or Wesley are such close friends. He was closest to Fred and she's gone.
As I said, it all depends on how this season ends. (And feel free to NOT tell me since I managed to stay spoiler free)
If Joss is even slightly involved I'm sure they'll find some new angle to give Spike a story in. They usually do. I'd love to see it happen. Throw in Faith, Giles, Willow (sans Kennedy need I say it) and Andrew.
OH, and insane Slayer Dana!
EdDantes | May 12, 19:31 CET
A note from Chris Buchanan (President of Mutant Enemy) which I got a few minutes ago. Tis regarding those NBC rumours.
Hi Simon - I'm crazy busy, but I wanted to tell you
that this rumor is totally untrue. The Angel sets are
gone, the writers and producers have moved on to other
shows. I wish it were true, but it's not.
Simon | May 12, 19:32 CET
I agree with Zachmind. as much as I love Xander, I just couldnt believe it I dont think. but then again who wouldve thought Angel and Spike would come to some sorta understanding? I like the idea of Spike and Xander being enemies, that makes more sense. And some people mentioned Faith? Faiths cool, but she doesnt make any sense. Her and Spike ended up hating eachother in season seven, I just dont see them riding around on a motorchycle together.
of course, Id love to see Andre there, cuz those two always crack me up.and I dont think Spike hates him as much as he hates Xander. And am I the only one that likes Harmony? Id love to see her fit into it somehow, if it was believable.
but anything Spike, Im there
PuppetCancer out
Puppet Cancer | May 12, 19:33 CET
Even if Spike worked in a flower shop and sang ballads he'd still be a vampire with a soul seeking redemption. I don't see that changing. Don't get me wrong, I love Spike and I'd love to see his story continue, but I'm in the Faith camp on this. As backdrop to Eliza's character it'd make for a really cool story of.. instead of having this character saving the other character from darkness, you'd have something more Illyria/Wes like, where one has to teach the other about things he barely believes in.
With Faith I'm absolutely sure it'd be a whole different show from Buffy, even though they're both slayers, and all that.
Of course it's all wishful thinking that Tru Calling, that dreadful show, doesn't come back next season.
[ edited by Mirkan on 2004-05-12 17:45 ]
SimonM7 | May 12, 19:44 CET
ZachsMind | May 12, 19:45 CET
kathylovesspike | May 12, 19:54 CET
Therefore, a TV show or TV movie with Spike as the lead character would not, indeed *should* not, be all about redemption. I leave it to the writers, however, to decide what it *should* be about, though. :-)
barbara | May 12, 20:00 CET
At the moment a Spike show is much more likely I'd guess, as I reckon Fox'll pick up Tru Calling to see how it performs in a Friendsless timeslot, (why didn't they give that timeslot to Wonderfalls!). Also, the WB obviously like Spike, as he was one of the things they demanded season 5 have.
A Spike show would be very different to Angel I feel it would be dark, but not as dark as Angel and would have an early Buffyesque lighthearted side to it, quite funny, while being dark. Spike isn't Angel, if he survives the coming apocalypse he'l leave Angel to fight evil on his own, he doesn't seek it out because he's not out for redemption, if he comes across evil, he'll fight it, if he comes across a chance to do good, he'll do it, if he comes across the oppurtunity to shanshu, he'll take it.
[ edited by Ghost Spike on 2004-05-12 20:15 ]
Ghost Spike | May 12, 22:14 CET
We hear a familiar voice attempting a deep resonating english accent as a fast montage of Famous Spike battles assaults the screen. All shots should be no more than a second or two each and be where Spike looks outrageously cool beating up on a number of enemies from his past. Along with the montage and narration is fast instrumental music that complements the visuals well, and feels very Spike-ish.
NARRATOR: (voice over) He's tried being the bad guy!
Dramatic beat of the narration. More fast montage of Famous Spike battles.
NARRATOR: He's tried being the good guy!
Dramatic beat of the narration. More fast montage of Famous Spike battles.
NARRATOR: Now?
Camera cuts to Andrew attempting an intimidating Yoda like pose that should be both impressive and laughable. Background is dark neutral. Lighting is stark and blue glowy, like the money shot at the end of Buffy Season Two "Anne" when she was holding the axe. Andrew should be lit like that. In fact the more you could get Andrew to look like Buffy in that money shot holding that axe the funnier this will be.
The music abruptly stops. Beat.
ANDREW: (to the camera) There is no try!
SPIKE: (off camera) Will you stop the bloody Boba Fett impersonation before I bite you?
Spike's upper body crosses into our view, intimidating pose over the now slightly retreating Andrew. The following lines are kinda said on top of one another.
ANDREW: (to Spike) Not Boba Fett! Yoda!
SPIKE: I'll bite you I swear I done it before ya little blighter!
SPX: a fast black wipe animation that looks like when Spike's wearing his black trenchcoat and does a spin.
Fast black. New logo. Stinger music effect.
SPIKE! the Series
ANDREW: (v.o.) I knew you were bluffing. You're a hero now!
SPIKE: (v.o.) Oh is that whut you think?
sound effect: fangbite
ANDREW: (v.o.) Ow!
ZachsMind | May 12, 22:21 CET
Ghost Spike | May 12, 22:31 CET
buffyfanatic18 | May 12, 22:31 CET
WilliamTheBloody | May 12, 22:50 CET
As much as I'd love to see a bunch of characters join Spike I'd think they'd want to keep it to a minumum so it isn't accused of being a Buffy copy or an Angel copy. When AtS happened it started off with just Angel and Cordy and they were later joined by Wesley. I think at least one key character and one very much liked character (rules out Kennedy) should join Spike. I think Andrew is the most likely just because of the relationship he and Spike already have and they've established it even more during this season of Angel so I wonder if that's intentional if they already had spin-off ideas in mind. I would love to see Dana reintroduced too just because of her memories of Spike and what she did to him.
I'd also think an Illyria spin-off could be very interesting as she tries to find a place for herself in a human world. She could be haunted by Fred's memories as she becomes more compassionate with the human's around her and she could feel guilt for "killing" Fred, who had such a pure heart. She could become someone who fights for the helpless and in some cases has to revert to Fred's form to pull it off and Wesley would still be there because the part of him that loves Fred can never let go.
I was very gung-ho for a Faith spin-off when I first heard about it but they've moved on with Spike's story and I don't think it would make sense for him to now travel with her. Him being tied to her in a ghostly form is now gone so how would they explain him helping Faith, especially where it was obvious he hated her after what he felt she did to Buffy in season 7. And since they introduced Dana the Slayer, I find her story to be more intriguing than Faith and would love to see them do something with her.
Of course, I'm still hoping for Ripper and ASH certainly could pull off a show of his own. They could have Ethan as a semi-regular in that and for humor, throw in the Chinese slayer that Rupert had such a hard time communicating with.
Firefly Flanatic | May 12, 22:56 CET
What concerned me more was how they were going to attach Spike to Faith, or maybe in that case it would have been something of Faith's that would have caused him to save the world and become a ghost, rather than the amulet from Wolfram & Hart.
And the chinese slayer died, sorry blwessels.
[ edited by Ghost Spike on 2004-05-12 21:14 ]
Ghost Spike | May 12, 23:13 CET
vpecoraro | May 12, 23:31 CET
Invisible Green | May 12, 23:32 CET
Ghost Spike | May 12, 23:49 CET
SO IF, thats a big IF this happens, I think itd be extremely different. Angel is all about the bad things that come along with being a vampire(like the not getting laid)and all the negative. His journey has been much more inner, I guess U could say.
IMO, I dont think Spike gives much care about being human again. He's been there and done that. I think he likes the whole superpower thing and thinks of it as kinda being a rockstar; he cant get enough of it. So I think his journey would be much more of a helping the helpless kinda thing than seeking any kind of redemption. Hell, he didnt apologize to a man(Wood) for killing his mother, I seriously doubt he cares how he ends up cuz he lives for today. and IF this does happen, I hope Faith aint in it....they hate eachother. I say sign up Andrew and Harmony if its workable and then eventually just create new characters. new blood...that way we can talk about them having a spinoff when the suits decide to cancel "Spike" in five or six years.
PuppetCancer out
Puppet Cancer | May 12, 23:53 CET
Invisible Green | May 12, 23:59 CET
I've thought a Spike/Andrew show would be a fantastic idea ever since their motorcycle trip and the discussion about the Bloomin' Onion.
ringworm | May 13, 00:05 CET
talented_bink | May 13, 01:15 CET
Simon | May 13, 01:17 CET
Firefly Flanatic | May 13, 01:23 CET
Oh, and for the finale I'd want either Drusilla or Oz to make an appearance. Or both. Both would ---Ooh! Dru & Oz in a budding romantic relationship when they showed up! Wouldn't that be a kick in the pants! And Oz would think he's turning Dru good while Dru thought she was turning him evil.. And they're both beating the living crap out of Spike for their own reasons.. Oh that'd be great!
Anybody got Joss' number?
ZachsMind | May 13, 01:45 CET
zz9 | May 13, 02:17 CET
willowzbitch | May 13, 02:28 CET
I agree with ZachsMind it wouldn't need to start with a huge cast, the fic I wrote (and will continue one day) had Spike, Fred, Oz and Lorne, I put Gunn in as an enemy along with Dru and the First, got a bit overloaded with bad guys and put Gunn in a coma for a several episodes just to get rid of him. But the core cast of four was all I felt it needed, and I could understand how one with Spike, Fred/Illyria and Andrew could work, maybe Illyria decides to follow Spike after the apocolypse, and Giles assigns Andrew to keep an eye on the two of them, Andrew blows his cover in the first act and joins the two of them occasionally reporting to Giles. Drusilla is also a must in any Spike spinoff, she's a huge part of Spike's story, and she's still alive, they wouldn't have to resurrect her like they did with Darla on Angel.
Ghost Spike | May 13, 02:35 CET
If you didn't mean to insult my fandom, then I'm sorry for taking it like that.
However, what you say makes total sense in the context of where Spike was in Buffy, but if you were to put some meaning behind Spike's words late in season 5 of Angel, he has indeed aknowledged Fighting The Good Fight as his calling, and at the end of Damage he also very much reflected on what he had done and that he should "pay" for it. In other words; redeem himself.
Now I also see how they could brush this off easily, but I can't but feel that it'd betray the direction the character was heading in a sense.
Faith's obstacles however are far, far from Buffy's. Her story is alot like Angel's in that she's learning to control the 'demon' within, but it's also about finding her way back to real connections and emotions. We've only seen a "sexually" attracted Faith on Buffy (let's not get too romantic over the Wood relationship) and I think that just exploring the emotional side of her would be fascinating.
I'll leave all that to the writers of course.
I want to underline that I'm in no way saying you don't already know all this, Ghost Spike. I'm simply thinking out loud.. on.. paper. Oh and it's all opinion, of course.
SimonM7 | May 13, 02:36 CET
dawnyl | May 13, 05:34 CET