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May 13 2004

(SPOILER) An Angelic Farewell from Eonline's Kristin in her weekly column, "Don't know about you, but I'm still in shock that Angel is really ending. The very last episode--why, dear God, why?" (minor spoilers)

For those who want to miss potential episode spoilers - I'll give you the jist .... as for returning to the characters if a movie of the week from the WB was ever more than talk - Amy, James, and J all said yes they would return but David said he would not return for a movie on the WB to quote, "I wouldn't be interested in doing anything for the WB or, you know, a movie of the week or something. I just don't think that would be right. It would have to be a film or that's probably it." Still, David said he's beyond grateful for all the fan support. "We've got the best fans in the world. These guys are die-hard and have always been there for us. The Save Angel campaign didn't surprise me at all, because when I found out [the show was canceled], I said, 'The fans are going to go nuts.' "

I don't know if it's just me but it sounds like David may have some bitterness toward the WB and may think if they go back it would be an insult to the fans.

Thanks RavenU, I didn't want to read the article so I can comment on what you posted.

Well, I agree with his sentiments regarding the WB but I wonder if he'd be available if UPN or Fox offered up the movie or if it went straight to DVD. I'd love for Angel to be in it, but I'll be excited if we get Spike, Illyria and Gunn. I want Wesley too though!! But if Angel won't be back it wouldn't have to be tied to the Angel series and there has been talk about doing something around Spike (but please let us have Illyria, Wesley and Andrew too!).

Personally, I don't blame him for his feelings on working for the WB again but he probably shouldn't be so vocal on that and burn his bridges. What if they had been interested in him for some other series. It also could be a money thing or an agent telling him to say these things too. If all the WBs new shows flop, they may be very much interested in doing an Angel mini series and DB could be in a good position to ask for bigger bucks. But hasn't there been word that all the sets have already been torn down? If that's true, doesn't that seem like a major sign that they have no intentions of doing any movies?
I was going to make the exact same comment you both did. It sounds very much here like David is more than a little miffed at the WB.

I suppose it won't matter...I don't really believe the WB will produce movies, not only for the reasons you mention blwessels, but just because they're freaking idiots.

I've got to ask: what is the fascination with Andrew by so many people? Because I'm beginning to think I must be the only one who just loathes (or at the best, dislike) him. I don't know why - he just gets on my nerves.
I love Andrew with Spike. He just plays off Spike so well and it would also be interesting to see him with Illyria too. I wouldn't want a "just Andrew" spin-off though. Just would like to see him with certain people.
Why would David be mad at the WB? He's been positively thrilled that Angel is over. At least in everything I've been reading. ..."it's just a f' in show! Time to move on..."

Maybe he was less than pleased at their treatment of Joss. Although I hear Joss gives as good as he gets! :)
I didn't get the idea DB was thrilled when Angel was canceled -- unless he was faking those tears Mercedes McNab has been mentioned witnessing at the cast wrap a few weekends back. I doubt she would have mentioned such a thing at the convention where she spoke if it hadn't impacted her significantly, or if she felt the emotion that prompted such a reaction on his part to be lacking in sincerity. Rather, it was my perception that she shared that private moment in order to connect the fans to the pain she, DB and others were experiencing that was going unreported behind the scenes. Like many people, DB is being judged on the basis of soundbites that only crudely approximate the much more complex thought processes that go on inside his head -- the true essence of which may never be accurately articulated outside that context.

I think he's got every right to be upset with the way the WB has treated his show, and Joss, and the fans. The Angel cast and crew worked their hearts out this season. They did everything the WB asked: Cut the budget, add Buffy alumni to bring in the BtVS fans, do more standalones and less longer arcs, lighten up the storylines, and change the show's paradigm by bringing AI into Wolfram & Hart -- oh, and get higher ratings, too, while you're at it. Yet what did they get for all their efforts, an improved ratings performance and critical praise from countless print and online journalists? Instead of raises, recognition from the WB for the smoothness of the transition from S4 to S5 and a much-deserved renewal of at least one year, they got a big fat pink slip. Oh, yeah. DB was just fine with all that, I'm sure.

For all his taking-the-cancellation-in-stride responses in recent interviews, the emotions he's been dealing with are probably not nearly so printable. He's had a few weeks for the end to sink in, and by now he's likely where many of us were a few months ago. I started out numb; the rage came later. The process of grieving and handling shocking change is different for everyone. Imagine what that process of letting go of so much recent history must be like for him.

He sounds a little resentful of the way the WB forcefully ended Angel before those who created it decided it was time for it to go? Can't say as I disagree with him. The WB have treated Angel shabbily from the beginning, and have barely deigned to give Joss the time of day ever since Buffy went off the air. Why give them another chance to take advantage of something they never understood or appreciated in the first place? I mean, if someone asked you to come back and do them a favor when they'd just fired you and everyone you've worked with for the past five years, what would you do?

From a fan standpoint, sure, I'd love an Angel movie on the WB, with Angel, if he was willing. If he's not, while other AtS actors are, then as long as it's got the right people behind it I'd still watch. I would definitely miss Angel being a part of it, since he's always been the soul of the show for me. But in the end, I respect DB for not wanting to participate in anything that might potentially diminish the legacy of a character he's worked hard to build, especially as he seems to regard that as his lasting gift to the fandom.

Maybe he'll change his mind about TV movies one day. If he doesn't, well ... I'll be majorly bummed. I admit it. But I'm not Angel, he is. If he feels he can't go back to the WB and portray that character with 100% commitment, for whatever reason (and I honestly can't see another network willing to take such a project on), I'll have to accept it. In the end, I respect his desire to take Angel to a level that surpasses what the WB would no doubt be willing to facilitate.

Speaking of pie in the sky, anything set around Illyria would suit me right down to the ground. She's an amazing creation and one of the most fascinating female genre characters I've ever seen in any medium. What I wouldn't give to read Joss's notes for her 6th season arc!
Really if DB is ready for a rest from the character...FINE. I don't blame him or any of the other actors for resenting the WB's treatment of the show. But burning your bridges is never a wise move. At least be diplomatic about it. If we get movies there may be a good chance they are NOT on the WB. FOX may decide to do them or perhaps another network will decide to do it. Maybe Joss will hold off and do a big screen production. Anything at this point would be great but we have to keep making noise and let the industry KNOW that we want this to happen. I may go out on a limb here...but the WB will probably come to regret losing Angel. They really don't have much to offer and they are tanking fast. If they want to do the movies more power to them, and I am happy that at least several of the cast members would reprise their roles. I don't condider them as insulting the fans by taking a job with the WB....I think they know the fans are upset and that a movie or mini series may help to ease the pain.'s hard to get new roles on TV shows these days. All thats on is reality crap. So I don't fault any of these people for doing what they feel they need to. Personally....I would love to see a spinoff or movies with Spike, Illyria and Gunn. I'd love to see some interaction with stuffy old Giles, as he reforms the Watchers Council.....and I'd be thrilled if they revisited the crazy slayer Dana's story. And Andrew...he's a throw him in too. As long as Spike is there I don't care who else tags along. Angel can be off finding happiness with Nina now and only needs to make a cameo if that would make DB happy. I just want something and I pray we get it.
Think about it...if movies do well...perhaps the networks will consider investing in more from the Whedonverse.
At the very least, Wiseblood, maybe Joss could be convinced to write one of those Angel books which would have an Illyria storyline...! (I'm totally with you on wanting to know what he and the crew would do with Illyria in a S6 situation)

They did just write alternate-universe stories involving Dark Willow...
It's not bitterness. Or rather, even if it was, he has no motivation or inclination to intentionally show it. One does not consciously attempt to make enemies in the entertainment industry. One makes enough enemies without even trying. Usually over misunderstandings like this.

David's shooting for a film career. Silver screen. Full length feature. He's got stars in his eyes. Doing a tv movie would be a step backwards in his opinion. He's gotta think about his future as a performer, and his career is at stake here. Either he gets movie deals and contracts, or he finds himself doing the convention circuit in five years. Or he takes the Gary Coleman route and becomes a security guard. Which would you shoot for?

I doubt David holds ill will for the WB beyond the thought that he's outgrown tv as a talent and an artist. Whether he's right or not remains to be seen. Personally if I could ever helm a successful tv show I'd hold on to such a job as long as I could, then do the convention circuit for as long as somebody paid me. I mean, a paycheck's a paycheck. However, he's ready to move on, hopefully to bigger and better things and I say let him go.

I can never emphasize enough that there are still stories to tell in the BuffyAngelVerse. However, they don't need Buffy or Angel in order for the tales to be told. 'Nuff said.

[ edited by ZachsMind on 2004-05-14 16:12 ]
I agree David is a little miffed at the WB. The fact that he specifically mentions the WB is pretty telling. David is happy to have the opportunity to move on. However, I remember reading an interview with David saying that he hopes the WB has the class to give Angel an entire last season like Buffy had.

Also, JW has been pretty diplomatic about the WB but some insiders have said he was about at PO'd as you could be at the WB and isn't planning on ever doing a series on the network again.

As far as David goes he is never going to come out and bash the WB. The parent company still is one of the largest studios in the land. If he hopes to do film I am sure he doesn't want to limit his chances by saying something dumb.

[ edited by DarenG on 2004-05-14 16:48 ]
I agree, Daren. it might be in DB's favor to take the diplomatic route. The world's a terribly small place and the finger that flips him off today may be part of the hand that feeds him tomorrow.

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