They could have just banished Charmed from their network. That show died a long time ago. He says they loved Angel but I don't buy it. I think it's a conspiracy. They just don't want smart shows on their network. If you ask me, Levin is the A-hole in the world. Feels like we ought to have known.

electricspacegirl | May 21, 10:49 CET

"And one of the challenges of any schedule is to let your veterans retire so you can make room for the rookies..."

"Let" your veterans retire? WTF?

-----

OT on other television topics adressed by Kristen:
I think "Desperate Housewifes" looks like it will be the best new show of next season. You can watch publicity clips fromt he pilot at Zap2It.com, and it looks amazing. "Life as We Know It" could be good if it avoids the teen drama cliches (or approaches them with a new spin), but I'm not convinced it will do all that. However, it looks better than "The Mountain," which seems to be yet another brainless teen drama, like "One Tree Hill" with testosterone. "Jack & Bobby" could be good, but it seems gimmicky, which could likely be annoying. I can understand the WB's interest in it; it does have hit potential. Also, I think ABC has the best fall schedule out of all the networks.

Invisible Green | May 21, 11:20 CET

". "I think about my friends in Texas who love Jeff and Drew and Smallville," Levin said. "That is a night where there are no shows that appeal to men. It's a very female-dominated schedule across all the competition, and we're just trying to put on two shows that are different."

WTF?? I have a couple of buds in Texas and that's why I think a redneck comedy will go well with Smallville's 'Dawson's creek with superpowers"?? Yeah Levin that's the way to justify your decisions!

And Angel WAS more of a guy show! That was acutally a complaint of a few women!

And Charmed goes on....frikkin frakkin crapfest......

EdDantes | May 21, 11:29 CET

The "friends in Texas" comment makes about as much sense as anything that has come out of that man's mouth about Angel's cancellation. That is, no sense at all. Is this guy not the poster child for the principle about rising to the level of one's incompetence?

palehorse | May 21, 13:04 CET

Huh..i didnt know rats had friends...you learn something new every day.

willowzbitch | May 21, 13:08 CET

"We adored that show. It was a really hard decision."

and every other excuse he's made... it's all just damage control, they've realized quite late (because they ain't that bright, dontcha know) how much they've alienated a large group of viewers. well, it's too late, i'll never watch that network again.

t r a c y | May 21, 13:08 CET

You know a lot of us (including myself) have had a go at Kristin in the past over her spoilers etc. But she has more than redeemed herself by asking Levin those questions. Kudos to her for doing so.

"I think about my friends in Texas who love Jeff and Drew and Smallville,"

Hello, what about the rest of the country?

Simon | May 21, 13:59 CET

I realize that Kristin is just doing her job when she pimps for new WB shows, but nothing I have heard or read about the "phenomenal" shows she mentions have given me the slightest twinge of interest in viewing them. AtS was the only reason I watched the WB, and now that they've "let" it "retire", (isn't it amazing how these people talk?) - I, too, have retired from the WB.

wissxwe | May 21, 16:13 CET

A clueless Texan who makes sure his buddies get what they want, keeps changing his story and makes flimsy excuses. Levin will be running for President next.

I cannot imagine surveying Charmed, 7th Heaven, Gilmore Girls, Angel and Smallville and making the decision that Angel is the one that has to go. Joss may have taken the high road when he posted about not being so hard on Levin, but I just cannot restrain my vitrol. I actually saw Kristin interview Levin on E! News Live. She was so close she could have...made it look like an accident. I trust him as far as I could throw him, which due to my lack of slayer-like strength, ain't too far.

bloodflowers | May 21, 16:44 CET

I think one reason it was that Angel was a expensive show to produce, Smallville also, but that is inhouse show made by Warner Bros, I think the main reason the WB has never gotten along with Whedon since the move of Buffy to UPN and his negative comments about the WB from that.

Nuke | May 21, 17:19 CET

Retirement, eh? Hmm....from here, retirement looks a lot like getting fired!

Or is it more like, "We're not firing you, but after May 19th, we're chucking your shit out to the street and revoking your parking rights...." Ah, sweet retirement!

And I'm so glad that Billybob and Jethro are directing the current wave of tv for us.....

Rogue Slayer | May 21, 18:15 CET

I'll pipe in to suggest that Jordan Levin probably doesn't know "real Texans" -- unless perhaps, he's friends with George Bush.

Come on, J. L.'s a nice Jewish boy who grew up in Chicago and Houston, and went to UT-Austin, the most liberal and un-Texas city in the state. (By the by, UT's also my alma -- Levin graduated the same year I started there.) I spent the last decade in Austin. It's not Foxworthy country; Austinites bristle at the notion of being considered red-necks. He didn't stick around after graduation, heading straight to a Disney internship. (He does, however, own a place in the Austin suburban hill country.)

I'm guessing that his claims that Texans like Foxworthy and Carey are based on the stereotype, most notably perpetuated by "King of the Hill" -- which is, incidentally, written by Mike Judge from his studio in Austin. So maybe Jordan knows Mike.

Whedonage | May 21, 18:53 CET

Laugh if you want, but when the Buffyverse returns (and it will) in a year or a year in a half, I wouldn't be surprised to see it come back on the WB or HBO. To be fair, Levin is right about the reruns and the inability to add new people.

Yes, I'm playing devil's advocate a little, but I am someone who came on board late, got my addiction and had to go back and watch everything. It would be nice to START with a new show from the beginning, like many of you did with Buffy and/or Angel. I think it is possible, after Firefly (hopefully) does well, and a new show comes on, that many people who would not have taken the time to watch a show that is ALREADY going and has tremendous backstory might watch a new show that begins at square one (albeit it with 12 combined years of backstory).

I also think that Whedon will benefit creatively from taking time away from writing the 'Verse, AND the new show will benefit from the combined hunger of fans like us, people who will discover the show in reruns and DVD, people who will like the Firefly movie, people who will be ignited and fanned by the countless critics who will hype and deify the new show, and people who will come just because, let's face it, the new show will have a LOT of buzz when it shows up:

"He chose Buffy. He turned us on to Angel. He kept flying with Firefly. But now it's been X years since Joss Whedon has been on TV to show us what goes bump in the night. So what's new? (flash to face of main character-s) WELL, WE'RE NOT IN SUNNYDALE ANYMORE! (flash to montage of exciting characters and scenes, etc.) Catch the return of Joss Whedon to television this fall on ______ "


I'm telling you, when it comes out, it's gonna be great. It sucks right now, I admit, but after a year or two, when it comes back it will have some mad momentum.

Anyone share my optimism and excitement?

brother_grady | May 21, 19:18 CET

"Anyone share my optimism and excitement?"

I'm trying, I really am. I just hope you're right. I think that the TV landscape needs to change first. This 'sucks beyond comprehension' reality hype must die down, the pendulum must swing and genre TV must make a comeback. If Joss had anything new right now, no matter how great, it would get killed like Wonderfalls. (When will Fox learn that a new genre show will not get off the ground on friday night?? Oh wait they probably DO know)

Sigh I'm just hoping Serenity will do well.....it'll give Joss more name and hopefully clout.

EdDantes | May 21, 21:23 CET

Nothing that Jordan Levin could possibly say, except for "Season 6 - Greenlight!" is going to make any of us forgive him. Networks like to let their older shows retire huh? Yes, that's why NBC was so thrilled to boot off Friends and Frasier. Why have those shows around when you can get new ones?

That was written in sarcasm font, btw. If the WB was going to axe one show, it certainly should have been Charmed or 7th Heaven. I think the network is going to be up for a huge wake-up call this fall when all of their new shows plummet to a speedy doom.

And as much as I'd like to believe that a Joss show will be back on television in a year or two, I really don't think so. But when he does return, I do hope it's on HBO.

MindPieces | May 21, 22:09 CET

I almost threw up when I read that. I hope Levin gets fired and that the reasoning behind is that the PTB adore him, but he's just getting too old and they need to phase in fresh faces. What a moron. he should just stop talking altogether.

dawnyl | May 21, 22:15 CET

I'm a fourth-generation Texan; my folks got off the boat in Galveston and stayed forever. And I'm offended at the notion that we all love, love, love Drew and Jeff and Smallville cuz we's is jest a big 'ol bunch of nimrods who likeses our enturtainmunt simple (I'm further slightly offended at the 'Billybob and Jethro' comment, but given the current situation, I'll give it a pass).
I like "Whose Line", MIGHT give 'Green Screen' a shot. Most likely not because at the moment the very mention of WB makes me homicidal (considering my state's reputation and the fact that I own weapons, that's not a good thing).
The only redeeming quality of Jeff Foxworthy is that I can watch him with my kids. IF I can stay awake.
Can't stand Smallville. Tried it, got really bored with the ad nauseum repetition.
Jordan Levin can just bite me. Thanks for the shout-out, bro....give the whole US yet another reason to think we're hicks.

[ edited by meredith on 2004-05-21 20:28 ]

meredith | May 21, 22:19 CET

brother_grady, i loved your ad. i think you made a good point; the next joss show will be worth waiting for.

irish | May 21, 23:32 CET

My problem is for all his hemming and hawing - the only full-season Drama they cancelled was Angel. I wished Kristin would have called him on a few lines of his - like the ....

doesn't repeat well line - hmmm, you think if they would have actually repeated the show like over this past summer after Buffy left the air on UPN more viewers may have come to the show.

or the ...

looking over shows and the not finding a new audience - yeah you looked them over alright did you even remember that all of the shows dwindled in the ratings this year and some lost their audience by as much as 20%. Except for the show he canceled which had an 11% increase in audience over the past season and was one of the strongest shows in the male demo he covets so much. So much for those excuses.

She should also have asked why the WB seem to lack in the marketing department and maybe some of the fault for the shows retention of audience was because of no attention from the network.

RavenU | May 22, 00:03 CET

I'm a Houstonian and I can tell you that we are not country bumpkins. I would give up every single other show on the air to get ANGEL back. It is the only one that I would have a freaking panic attack if the VCR didn't work. It is the only one that the entire world slammed to a halt for me when it was on. The thought that Wednesday's episode is the last we will see of this universe is simply intolerable. I will never watch TheWB again! I took it off my 'favorites' on my remote control so I won't even accidentally tune in. Levin is an arse and I hope that viewership declines rapidly next season and when the focus groups find out why, they will see it is because they axed ANGEL.

kdeweb | May 22, 00:32 CET

I'm further slightly offended at the 'Billybob and Jethro' comment, but given the current situation, I'll give it a pass

Hey, I'm from Missouri. I know plenty of Billybobs and Jethros, my extended family making up a great deal of them. Still don't want them to decide what's on my tv, because it would just be Reba and Foxworthy. "I ain't watchin' no devil show about no vampires...." But somehow I don't see them saying, "Hey, that there Superman show is purdy cool. He's got superpowers what we ain't got." Well, maybe Levin was referring to the 'sophisticated' Texans or something. I'd just prefer he stop talking.

Rogue Slayer | May 22, 00:35 CET

I know hating Levin is easy right now. He seems to be something of a whipping boy for fans. I just wish people would take a moment and consider: without him and the WB, there would be no Buffyverse. His network carried BtVS and AtS for a combined total of 10 years. That means something. Joss mentioned all this at the Bronze. I feel like it bears repeating. He said that while he disagrees with the decision, Levin is a stand-up guy, one he's been happy to work with.

It's easy to say he's a scumbag. But he has to cater to a crowd that eats up cheap reality shows, and on top of that, the market isn't all that great right now. Blame him. Just don't pretend that this is all his fault. Keep things in perspective, too. You can disagree with the decision but the personal attacks don't help anybody.

Oh, and Hi Everyone. Loooooongtime lurker. First post.

Smo | May 22, 03:19 CET

Smo - Hi and welcome.

For the most part I don't blame the guy for canceling Angel - that is a responciblity the WB shares with FOX - they are both equally at fault for the fate of the show. However, I wish he would explain his actions better than his pat answers which all can be disputed in a court of law as inaccurate for the most part. That is my beef with the Co-CEO, I just want the truth and not just guised half-truths. I know the WB lost 10% revenue last year - I know it has also had a major drop, across the board for the most part, in viewership overall from last season. The comments I pointed to above are the ones I want him to clarify - if he did that be the news good or bad I would accept it but what he's passing off as answers is simply a more solid form of bull gas.

RavenU | May 22, 03:31 CET

"let your veterans retire"
Um...Levin? If that's true, why is Seventh Heaven still on the air? It was never good and it's in its what, eigth or ninth season. Why the hell did you let that show die. It's not like anyone would've missed it.

(BTW, it's not because it's Christian, just to clarify that so no one gets mad at me. I kind of like Joan of Arcadia. It's mostly because it's crap.)

toxiceuphoria | May 22, 04:39 CET

Network execs have no idea what people want. Levin's no better than any other exec in that respect.

As folks above said he is correct in that Angel wasn't easily repeatable - there was a time of 80s prime-time serials where that was accepted and expected, but it doesn't seem to fit with most people's "sound-byte" sized attention spans any more. Sad.

I've always wished the Buffyverse was on HBO. They have such a superb track record of supporting their series. HBO also seems to have more tolerance for serial shows; when I had a subscription and watched season one of Six Feet Under, episodes certainly needed to be watched in correct order to make sense. Haven't seen it in awhile or any of their newer shows. Had the Buffyverse shows been on HBO, they wouldn't have been so generally ignored come Emmy time, either.

So here's hoping that HBO sees potential in this vast group of fans - I'd resubscribe in an instant for the sole purpose of watching a Whedon show. It'd be even more wonderful if it was a Buffyverse show.

Once Joss Whedon has Serenity in the can, he'll get bored... :)

Xieanthe | May 22, 06:08 CET

RavenU, I guess I wonder whether he could possibly say anything to satiate the fans. I think it's a cliche at this point to blame reality TV, but I do, for my part. I'm not happy with the WB's decision. It makes financial sense for the short term, I understand that. AtS is expensive. It doesn't get steller ratings. Reality TV makes for a better return. So does Charmed, 7th Heaven, and the like. I don't have to like it, and the long term, I think, will be a very different story.

Tim Minear said on the Succubus Club that reality TV is destroying network identity. I think that's true. FOX, for example, used to mean something. It used to mean quirky, daring programming. It doesn't anymore. That's where I think network TV is digging its own grave, the WB included. But that's the way of things: most companies look for short term rewards without worrying about what's a ways away.

Having said all that, I think we need to be thankful the cast and crew (along with the fans) received decent notice before they got the axe. I'd hate to have ridden the bubble again this year, only to hear it pop sometime in the summer. That would be lousy. And, you know, we got 5 seasons. That's remarkable, by TV standards. The WB could've been a lot worse: it could have been any other network.

Imagine this show on FOX.

The WB-sponsored 'Thank You' at the end rubbed the wound a bit, but I appreciate what the WB did do. I think people should remember that about Levin before they nail him to the cross.

Smo | May 22, 07:57 CET

As upset as I am about Angel being cancelled, Joss Whedon praising the guy must mean something to. It is a business and it's their decision to do what they think is right for their business. I don't agree with their solution though. I also don't agree that Angel doesn't repeat well. They never really made an effort to repeat it or promote it on the WB whereas it's being shown in repeats on TNT and is very successful and the DVD sales are phenomenal. They did an "easy view" for Smallville and Everwood to try and bring in new viewers, why not do that for Angel too? And I think most people, at least on this site, know the facts that the ratings were better than ever. It was their second highest rated show for most of the season and it's been their highest rated show for the last couple. Yeah, those shouldn't count because the decision had been made but it was made after the WB praised it's audience growth and bragged about it being their second highest rated show this year. They also praised the fact that paired with Smallville it was their most successful timeslot on their network. So people are bitter because the cancellation made no sense and their explanations are filled with falsehoods. That's why people are all over Levin. Give us a legitimate reason. Come out and say the show was just too expensive each season and that they don't own the rights to it and aren't making the kind of money they could if it was an in house production. Just don't lie to us and make it sound like the show was getting old and needed to be put to sleep because it's numbers were failing.

Firefly Flanatic | May 22, 08:11 CET

"Levin is the A-hole in the world"

*snerk* why did no-one else comment on this charming pun. i love it, oh god i love it. i hve no real problem with anyone (anymore) i just am sad for angel.

pezwitch | May 24, 12:25 CET