I doubt it, I think the market over extended itself with the same guests appearing at a multitude of conventions. I think we're in a period of consolidation.

Simon | July 15, 10:26 CET

"I doubt it, I think the market over extended itself with the same guests appearing at a multitude of conventions. I think we're in a period of consolidation."

You may have a point Simon. I notice a lot of the same actors who played side characters have been hitting the cons all over the place. (Don't blame them, I know I would.) I think you can only have so many cons where Clem, Kennedy and Groo are the top of the bill.

(No snark intended by the way. I know they're all really nice. Just saying...)

EdDantes | July 15, 10:55 CET

I agree - this is consolidation - only a permanent one - that's the point. I think there is only a shelf life of maybe 2-2 & 1/2 years of conventions, if it's lucky, after a show leaves the air and has no other tie ins, then to paraphrase the borg, "It will be assimilated". It will get assorb into the generic cons - such as Creations Grand Slam or the comic cons like Wizard World and the San Diego Comic-Con and there may be only 1 or 2 Buffy only conventions a year after next year. Creation entertainment has already put out it's 2005 schedule and with no whedon only con listed - this year they cancelled 2 of the 3 Buffy cons it was going to do because of poor ticket sales. Vulkon has already said next year it plans on scaling back it's Slayercons - outside of the Oakland mega-con (which is a break even at this point), they have lost money on most whedon related cons this year, including having to cancel one due to poor ticket sales and if they keep doing them they will be a hybrid convention like Charmed/Slayercon. It's not because of the same guest theory either, Flashback weekend lost money because of poor ticket sales and they had David Boreanaz in his first US convention appearance. Vulkon in Tampa - had the first US appearance of J August Richards and Emma Caulfield, as well as Christian Kane on the bill and still it sold poorly - each con had about 400-600 fans in attendance for conventions that last year drew 800-1000 or more patrons. So it's not just the same old guest theory at work here. Plus they are running out of new guest to invite, so yes you will see a lot of the same guest at these conventions. The guest you are seeing over and over again, like Groo, Clem, Adam, and now Kennedy are not getting paid for their actual appearance but for their autographs and some accomidations that's one of the reasons you see them so often at these things, they're cheap. In the case of some like James Leary (Clem) who tend to hang out with the fans and just all around seems to have fun - he is actually the most requested verse actor to appear at conventions.

What's the ultimate downside to these consoldations of convention genres, more gerne based guest and less time for fans to actually get to know this group of actors who have worked so hard to entertain them for so many years. In the generic cons hardly anyone but the headliners get any time onstage for q&a's and are normally religated to the autograph room to sell their wares. Also another downside to the assimilation of these conventions is the fact that you may get no new headliners and the ones that are headlining now will not be ask to do them if they do not draw a huge crowd. If they do get a headliner, normally their time will be severely scheduled to the point of having almost no connection with the fans except during the q&a.

RavenU | July 15, 12:02 CET

Yeah you make a lot of valid points. (And you usually seem to know what you're talking about. You working for some company like Vulkon? Just curious)

Well, every show probably has it's heyday. I bet Star Trek Cons aren't what they used to be either, and I don't think Xena conventions even exist anymore. Or maybe the whole con thing had a general upsurge that's now swinging the other way again.

(Btw, you seem to really enjoy writing 'poor ticket sales', hehehe. Sorry, just joking of course, but I don't think I've ever seen those words so often on one page)

Also, when I look at the two Cons me and my wife are attending in the next two months I notice other things: For the San Diego Comicon, we paid about $150 for two tickets that allow us access to everything there for four days.

For the Slayercon, we paid $250 for two tickets that include only one day. And only a few autographs are included (Admittedly the good ones) and when you look at all the things at the event that we would have paid extra for just to be there, on top of the $250, let alone if we'd done all four days with all the options.....phew. I know it's a costly event to create, but still, that's pretty steep for most of us mortals.

So that might be another element in Buffyverse-only cons, it's an expensive hobby. I know what you mean with your minus points for generic cons in your last paragraph, and you're right, but on the other hand, things are also more informal and loose there. If you ask to take a picture while they're signing, it's usually no problem (or money) where at a Vulkon con that all seems more rigid and restricted.

(Btw if some of my info is wrong, feel free to correct me. I could be full of it for all I know)

"The guest you are seeing over and over again, like Groo, Clem, Adam, and now Kennedy are not getting paid for their actual appearance but for their autographs and some accomidations that's one of the reasons you see them so often at these things, they're cheap."

Interesting, i didn't know that. And it explains it even more.

"In the case of some like James Leary (Clem) who tend to hang out with the fans and just all around seems to have fun - he is actually the most requested verse actor to appear at conventions."

Ha, that's cool. I saw him once at the LA Buffy Bash. He's really nice and funny. And let's face it, most of those actors won't be getting famous. Just how it goes. If I was a struggling actor that most people have never heard of I'd enjoy the hell out of a convention filled with people that adored me. I'd be just like James Leary in that, hehe.

EdDantes | July 15, 12:51 CET

I agree. That's the whole reason I haven't gone to one. They're way too expensive. Seriously, I'm willing to be if they took the prices down some (not rediculously so, but say, give us a good amount of most everything for $200 or 150) then I'd give it a go, but like Ed said, it's usually $250 to get in the door, if you want to actually do anything, you have to pay on top of that.
Sorry, I just can't afford it, so my dreams of JM and I running away together at a convention will just have to remain on hold...

I agree Ed, other conventions, Botcon for example, I think when I went it was under $200/ticket, and that got us in for 2 days, almost all the events, and pictures were allowed at signings.

WilliamTheBloody | July 15, 16:38 CET

It cost 15 bucks to go to ComicCon on Sunday, and I get two panels I want to see. Love panels, love the people-watching, hate autograph lines.

Allyson | July 15, 18:53 CET

(And you usually seem to know what you're talking about. You working for some company like Vulkon? Just curious)

No - I do not work for any convention company - I may be insane but I am not stupid. Any convention be it pro or fan run can be more politcal than the Democrats and Republicans on their worse days. I, however, have been to well over a 100 of them and seen them in action and have gotten to know those who do run these things - that's why a seldom volunteer unless it's completely out of control. Long ago I was offered a job with a pro con company but turned it down - I know how they work and they could not pay me enough to deal with it.

(Btw, you seem to really enjoy writing 'poor ticket sales', hehehe. Sorry, just joking of course, but I don't think I've ever seen those words so often on one page)

Yeah - cause that's about 1/10 of the ammount of times I have heard it from the promoters. :)

Also, when I look at the two Cons me and my wife are attending in the next two months I notice other things: For the San Diego Comicon, we paid about $150 for two tickets that allow us access to everything there for four days. For the Slayercon, we paid $250 for two tickets that include only one day. And only a few autographs are included (Admittedly the good ones) and when you look at all the things at the event that we would have paid extra for just to be there, on top of the $250, let alone if we'd done all four days with all the options.....phew. I know it's a costly event to create, but still, that's pretty steep for most of us mortals.


Let's look at the two cons from another perspective -
SDCC
- expected large turnout 10,000 - 15,000+
- no guarenteed seating, autographs, or photos with any guest.
- covering many different genres.
- normally requires a map of the complete site and plans made in advance of the event as to where things you want to see are happening and how to get from point a - b - if you are going with someone take walkie talkies and split up - you need to find out when those who you want to see are signing and those you want to hear are speaking - you may have a potential conflict and may have to choose between somethings.
- Normal ticket prices range from $25-$75
- May have to stand in long lines for many hours if headliners are signing or speaking if you want to get a seat (sometimes speakers are in rooms that max capasity quickly).

Whedonverse only
- expected turn out 800 - 1000
- If you buy reserved seats - you are guaranteed autographs from the headliners (part of the price of your ticket includes the autograph price for each headliner - which was paid in advance by the promoter).
- event is scheduled so to optimize the time so you miss as few things as possible
- more centralized in a smaller area
- guest are related to the whedonverse only
- bonus guest such as Leary, Toy, and others typical sign for a nominal fee but they tend to hang around and talk to the fans after the activities are over and tend to have fun by interuping the headliners during their q&a's which is good for many laughs.
- normal ticket price range from $125-250.
- also offers for extra fees photo ops professionally done, cocktail party and banquets (which are attended by guest bonus and headliners).

So that might be another element in Buffyverse-only cons, it's an expensive hobby.

All conventions are an expensive hobby.

A few points to note;
*If you are planning on trying to get a Trokia photo - it may cost you - cause the guys know what the going price is and they know it's a valuable commodity. There is a chance that they may sign autographs on schedules that will not have them at the same place at the same time.
* Also if you want autographs from those in the signing area will cost you on avg $20-40 whether or not you bring something for them to sign. If you just want your photo with them it may run you on the avg of $10-20 a person {some will do photos for free} but if you buy an autograph normally you can get a photo taken with them for free.

So keep that in mind.

RavenU | July 15, 20:12 CET

Wait, RavenU, the SD Comic-Con website informs us that "notables are not allowed to charge for autographs", at least, not for the first one. When you say autographs will cost $20-40 on average, you're talking about additional ones, or about other cons, or what?

SoddingNancyTribe | July 15, 20:20 CET

the academic conference in nashville attracted almost twice as many people as expected. i know it's a bit different, and certainly rarer, than fan conferences. but i don't think the interest in gatherings is generally decreasing. if anything, i've met more people in the last year who just recently got into the jossverse than i ever have before. word of mouth is exponentially increasing the audience lately, or so it seems to me.

orphea | July 15, 21:10 CET

Also, when I look at the two Cons me and my wife are attending in the next two months I notice other things: For the San Diego Comicon, we paid about $150 for two tickets that allow us access to everything there for four days.


Don't mind him. He's getting old and his head don't work so good. It was only like $90 for all four days for the both of us in San Diego. At the Oakland Con, it's $250 for both of us for ONE day. But you get a lot with that one day.

Rogue Slayer | July 15, 21:37 CET

It seems like both types of cons (I'll be at SDCC and Oakland Slayercon) have there pros and.....cons.

I had to do it, guys, I really did.

randygiles | July 15, 23:38 CET

SoddingNancy Tribe - In the case of SDCC since they are probably not paying for accomidations or travel then they probably have paid those guest a minimum signing fee - so people would not be charged for at least 1 autograph. However, my bet is the actors still has the right to refuse to sign some personally brought items - do to copyright or personal reasons (having already run into this from past conventions - there are certain photos and articles of clothing the actors will refuse to sign). This also means you are still not guarenteed an autograph unless you get in line for an extended period of time. Also photos may or may not be permitted depending on security and legnth of the autograph line. Also that just apply's to those in the autograph area and the 1 free autograph does not apply to those who are signing at boothes like inkworks which is hosting both Amber and Camden, so you may be charged for those.

RavenU | July 16, 05:44 CET

Now I understand how I scored 86% Kaylee on that FF character test - my splendid naivete. In my innocent own world I never imagined that folks charged for autographs at these events. In fact, I never thought about it at all, but if I had, I would have supposed that the actors' presence was marketing the event - and thus they would have received some fee from the organizers, - or that they were promoting their own product. Not that I begrudge people from marketing something on the side. Seems like a handy way to earn some extra money. Just never imagined that's how these things went on, is all.

Now if I buy Amber's movie, I guess that earns me a quick photo and/or autograph, huh? (And it's mostly, like, for my daughter anyway - she's the huge Tara fan and is really looking forward to meeting her. . . )

SoddingNancyTribe | July 16, 07:23 CET

In the case of Amber you will get the DVD as a gift with purchase, since legally she cannot sell the DVD and instead sells her autograph photo or poster from the movie for $45 and you get a copy of the DVD or VHS with it.

Just an FYI - For anyone who hasn't seen it, may I suggest picking up a copy of James Leary's short film Stunkc*cks (he will have it at his autograph table starting at I think $20) - it is a parody of the porn industry and is beyond funny. He has a couple of different additions of it - if you can get the special addition with deleted scenes ($25- I think). Just a thought - this movie has never failed to make people laugh.

RavenU | July 16, 07:50 CET

"Now I understand how I scored 86% Kaylee on that FF character test - my splendid naivete. In my innocent own world I never imagined that folks charged for autographs at these events

Hehe, yeah for many smal-time TV actors it's a very nice addition to their income. I know it's pretty long days at a con when you do a signing, and I know you meet a lot of weirdos too, but still to sit there and have people come over to say how great you are and then pay you for your autograph.....I wouldn't mind giving it a go, hehe.

"In the case of Amber you will get the DVD as a gift with purchase, since legally she cannot sell the DVD and instead sells her autograph photo or poster from the movie for $45 and you get a copy of the DVD or VHS with it."

Ah maan! I've been wondering about that! On her site too: "Buy a poster for 45 bucks........and get a free movie." Huh? So that's why, she officially can't sell the movie. How come? is it because she never found a distributor?

EdDantes | July 16, 09:01 CET

she officially can't sell the movie. How come? is it because she never found a distributor?

That's part of the reason, but it's also SAG rules that the actors have to be paid if you sell the movie. When Amber was doing the movie, all of the actors involved knew they weren't going to get paid, and were doing it as a favour to her. So technically Amber can only sell a poster or photo and give away the DVD, since there's no way she can afford to sell the actual DVD and pay all the actors scale for their work on the movie.

lalaa | July 16, 09:09 CET

Interesting. And it makes no difference that the actors were okay with not getting paid? And doesn't this mean she never could sell the movie through distribution? Wouldn't that result in...well, sales? And the same 'pay the actors' problem?

EdDantes | July 16, 13:55 CET

Ed - had she been able to get distribution - the actors would have gotten paid for their work - more than likely what may have been left at the backend or at least scale - but since she did not get distribution - she could not legally sell the film - so she skirts the issue by giving it away with her autograph photo to try to recoup some of her cost of making the film - which was anywhere between $50-100 thousand dollars based on various reports.

RavenU | July 16, 15:14 CET