The WB wants an Angel movie.
20th Century Fox blamed for forcing them into making an early decision over Angel's future. Which you could take as meaning the show might still be with us.
There's a little bit more explanation at TV Guide's Biz section.
And Capt Video's coverage of the press tour in the Detroit Free Press mentions:
"Though nothing's imminent, WB has offered "Angel" creator Joss Whedon and star David Boreanaz a chance to do "Angel" movies in the future . ."
Change of link: Originally I linked to the TV Guide coverage of the press tour but since you now have to register to view that I've changed the link to the Sci Fi Wire report.
July 15 2004
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RavenU | July 15, 12:32 CET
I'm glad Joss got to end the show on his terms, instead of WB's.
[ edited by eddy on 2004-07-15 10:34 ]
eddy | July 15, 12:34 CET
Ghost Spike | July 15, 12:37 CET
Cause if he did…holy crap!!!!
Son Of Shadow | July 15, 12:37 CET
Either that or, as it's been seeming to me for a while, the decision to cancel Angel was mostly Levin's descision, and not all at the WB agreed with it.
Ghost Spike | July 15, 12:46 CET
And though the words "it was a mistake" will never pass anyone's lips there, (you'd probably sooner hear Dubya admit he was wrong) I think they might regret it on several levels. Especially given how many of their new shows have either bombed or never even aired over the last few years.
As for the TV movies, it wasn't until James Marsters said Joss had spoken to him about doing 4 that I started believing the possibility. Don't hold your breath on David's involvement though, he hasn't done anything but profusely refuse even the notion from the moment it was brought up. But then if they get made, and they really focus on a different character every time, then that's okay. Angel was the lead in his own show for 5 years, I can enjoy other characters in the spotlight.
I say let's have a Spike one, a Giles one (maybe this is how 'Ripper' will finally happen?), a Willow one (without Kennedy please. Sorry Iyari) and a Faith one (without Wood). Guest starring whoever is willing and/or fitting from the Buffyverse.
EdDantes | July 15, 13:05 CET
Oh, that's a low blow. I don't believe it one bit, either.
electricspacegirl | July 15, 13:11 CET
Personally i believe that part of the blame lies with both the WB and Fox and that both of them could and should have done more to ensure the show's continuation.
Regardless of that i'm quietly confident that these movies will see the light of day in some form eventually although i'm with EdDantes in that David won't be a part of them. The four various character movies are much more likely and, as far as i'm concerned, preferable.
Disciple of Spike | July 15, 14:14 CET
prufrock | July 15, 16:36 CET
Passion | July 15, 16:45 CET
I will really be surprised if the WB lasts another year at this rate.
The can make some small amends with me if they come through with more Angel or Buffy programming though. Give us more.....you won't regret it.
kathylovesspike | July 15, 17:15 CET
SpikeBad | July 15, 17:51 CET
G Thing | July 15, 19:39 CET
I don’t mind their stupidity so much as them thinking the fans aren’t bright enough to catch on. First Angel cost too much. Then the whole Dark Shadows thing. Then it was too old, they needed to make room for fresh blood. Then, strangely, Angel was the only established drama not to return while they kept shows that were even older. Then it didn’t repeat well. Blah, blah, blah. Goodie for them if they thought they had some super duper programming waiting in the wings… hmmm, seems like they don’t. Premature cancellation by a bunch of jerk offs.
I think I’m the one who’s gonna throw up.
bloodflowers | July 15, 21:41 CET
Simon | July 15, 22:08 CET
I just had an argument over the phone with EdDantes about this very thing. I think they ARE referring to Joss, even though Joss isn't technically employed by FOX. I say that maybe since they're thinking about getting Joss to do some tv-movies with them(and they are wanting a Buffy-like show....) maybe they're trying to put the onus on FOX, not knowing that Joss' dinner with Levin is by now legend in the 'verse.
Ed thinks that the WB wouldn't want to piss off FOX by implying something that didn't happen, so maybe FOX had put their own pressure on the WB. I think he's full of malarky, but I often do.... : )-
Rogue Slayer | July 15, 22:21 CET
Yeah RS and me just had a talk about that.e thing. It's possible but that would be a whole extra level of stupid and pathetic wouldn't it? It's not like Joss is a 'FOX employee'! Aren't Fox execs going "Huh?" at the moment?
But yeah it's true that if they said "It's Joss' fault!" people would get even angrier at them, so I guess this could be their 'spin' on Joss asking them not to screw his crew and actors by canceling at the last moment.
Extra pathetic since I'm still thoroughly convinced they only gave Angel a fifth season because several of their new shows had tanked (BoP, Tarzan, etc) and that they never intended to go for a 6th.
[ edited by EdDantes on 2004-07-15 20:31 ]
EdDantes | July 15, 22:29 CET
Fortunately I have my loving wife to support me when the malarky gets too much......ahem........;-)
EdDantes | July 15, 22:32 CET
Simon | July 15, 22:45 CET
Which is no reason to cancel the show. The ratings were pretty consistent till the end. There have been no major changes since then that would suddenly have made them change their minds, so they shouldn't pretend that there were. They wanted cheap reality shows, Angel was not a good repeater and they wanted a new family oriented image for the WB. None of those reasons has anything to do with being asked earlier or later. And really I don't see how Joss *is* suddenly Fox in their world, but maybe someone else on the board knows more about the technicalites of that.
EdDantes | July 15, 22:51 CET
Unfortunately these days, it seems that no one in the corporate world of US television wants to take responsibility for their actions and say "quite clearly we got it wrong".
Simon | July 15, 22:58 CET
Rogue Slayer | July 15, 23:29 CET
This is a corporate executive.
His primary goal: to make himself look good.
His main tools: hype; making excuses; casting blame elsewhere; and a fanatical devotion to the Pope.
[ edited by bookrats on 2004-07-15 21:50 ]
bookrats | July 15, 23:50 CET
I remember. They were pretty evil, save one dude, who then was laid off.
Allyson | July 16, 00:17 CET
Whedonage | July 16, 00:48 CET
Fox, or Joss, would not have put any pressure on them unless they had an alternative, say another network interested or something.
zz9 | July 16, 02:07 CET
All the things they're so desperate for now, they threw away. Meanwhile the fandom is out here, still furious and desperate because TV is going to suck so hard this fall without a Joss show that it beggars the imagination.
TV movies are a sop to get us to shut up. I got news -- I'm not anywhere near ready to stop complaining. Angel got killed because these people are idiots. Who knows if there's intelligent life at that network? I'm almost past caring. Color me incredulous at the idea of them being able to woo Joss back.
Personally, I'm too angry to feel anything more than a mild satisfaction from these articles. That they know they screwed up seems to have dawned on them. What they don't know is that fixing the damage is going to require effort and vision I don't believe they're actually capable of mustering.
Wiseblood | July 16, 02:21 CET
Fox, or Joss, would not have put any pressure on them unless they had an alternative, say another network interested or something.
Well, Joss asked Levin point blank to give him more notice than usual so that if it weren't being renewed, he could write a decent ending and give his cast/crew notice. According to Joss, he didn't actually think they would cancel Angel. But he wanted to be prepared for that possibility. He and Jordan Levin had worked 'together' for a long time, so he was asking for a favor, more or less.
Now if Levin had really been on the fence about Angel's renewal, I have no doubt he would have said, "We really want to see what the ratings do the rest of the season. I'm sorry, I just can't give you an answer right now." Maybe Joss would have realized then that Angel was once again 'on the bubble' and could have rallied the troops(us). But in my mind, Levin already knew he wanted to bring in fresh blood and since, as many have said, Angel doesn't repeat well(like a bad dish, I guess), and they had another vampire show coming up, it didn't seem like a hard decision for him. I think if they really needed more time, they would have asked for it. Joss asked for a decision, and he got it. I don't think Joss could really pressure them if they were truly unsure of where to go with it. It's my opinion that Levin had his decision made before Joss even approached him, but that could just be my sour grapes.
Rogue Slayer | July 16, 02:21 CET
1) Angel was not nearly as promoted as other WB dramas and yet was up in ratings by 10% over season 4 numbers and of it's 'aging' dramas it was the only one to see an increase in ratings where all other drama lost viewers and most in double digit losses ie Gilmore Girls down by 15% in the overall season.
2) When Angel finally recieved some promotion (ie the end of Angel) the ratings actually showed an increase - huh imagine what the numbers would have been had they actually promoted it for the whole season.
3) Asking during Feb sweeps if they were going to be renewed was not early when you concider that they had already renewed the Gilmore Girls and 7th Heaven back in early Dec 2003 (after ratings losses for both shows of upwards of 20% for GG and 10% for 7H) and knowing that contract negosiations were going on and pilot season just starting. With the bubble status they had had in rescent years did not want to be left scrambling for employment if they were not going to be renewed. Thus giving everyone a chance to plan what they were going to do - take a vacation or look for work. Did they have to return an answer - no - the fact that they did so so quickly speaks to the fact that the powers of the WB had planned this to be Angel's last season - the mere fact that they were ask early simply gave them the excuse they needed to drop the axe. After the half season renewal surprise, would it be so hard to think that they might want to know something a little more up front this time. Instead of finding out like the did with the rest of the season renewal notice that had caught a lot of them off guard back in November. I mean they were filming like episode 10-11 when they found out that the contract for season 5 had only been guarenteed 12 episodes with an option.
RavenU | July 16, 03:45 CET
If they had set an extra day to repeat the previously aired episode, every single week, it would have caught the attention of new viewers who were either channel surfing or watching the show right before it.
I know I am a viewer who has gotten attached to a show in the middle of its run (most of my favorite shows I caught onto very late) and watched reruns to catch up. Buffy was actually one of those shows, and Angel is no different. You have to catch the wave sometime, and if it's not at the very beginning, it's always takes a while to get into the storyline. But if you like the storytelling, you will make that commitment.
A lot of people do like the story arc style of certain TV shows but are just unaware of what's out there. I talk to people all the time that are LOTR fans, Alias fans, Harry Potter fans, etc, who love good writing and long story arcs but had no idea what Buffy and Angel was like. These are people that are only now getting into the series'.
If you don't promote a show and air it as if you want to attract more viewers, you aren't going to get more viewers. And yet Angel 's viewers WERE increasing in numbers during the final season. How can this be? Oh, I know, a wizard did it.
The idea that Angel is a show that doesn't do well in repeats does not makes sense when there is a cable network that airs repeats 6 times a week! The WB is lying. They looked at Angel and decided they didn't want to invest in airing repeats because it would get in the way of their precious OTH and 7th Heaven and Charmed. Excuse me while I regurgitate everything I've ever eaten in my life.
[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2004-07-16 04:33 ]
electricspacegirl | July 16, 06:27 CET
NOLA64 | July 16, 08:22 CET
's What I've been sayin'.....I swear they never intended to go for S6. They just needed filler for their 'new' shows. Most of which would have been rehashing of old shows in a new coat, and most of which never even happened.
"When Angel finally recieved some promotion (ie the end of Angel) the ratings actually showed an increase - huh imagine what the numbers would have been had they actually promoted it for the whole season."
Yeah, and didn't they often cut these terrible trailers when they did promote? Remember the promo for "Unleashed"? "Tonight, Angel will love again!!" just because Nina was introduced. Didn't see much lovin' nor did I expect it. But hey why actually WATCH the ep before writing a promo for it.
"Asking during Feb sweeps if they were going to be renewed was not early when you concider that they had already renewed the Gilmore Girls and 7th Heaven back in early Dec 2003 "
Yeah good point too. I was amazed at how early some shows (Charmed too I believe?) were already okayed for a next season.
"I'm so sick of the excuse that Angel doesn't repeat well. THEY NEVER EVEN TRIED! Sure, they repeated a few episodes over the holiday break, but they never consistantly repeated the episodes like they did Smallville, Everwood, and One Tree Hill."
Yeah I always say that too. TNT is rerunning Angel the way real reruns are run. ON A DAILY BASIS. That's how they're rerunning Buffy too. The WB's 'reruns' were just once a week-fillers when they didn't show a new one. No show 'repeats' well then! Ah it was lame excuses. They didn't get it, they didn't want it. They had all these new ideas for shows and they wanted rid of it. Had 'Tarzan' been a hit, we wouldn't even have seen a S5 of Angel.
EdDantes | July 16, 08:48 CET
I just think it's more plausible that the next Buffyverse project will be a spin-off and this time I hope it's on a cable network that will welcome Joss with open arms and treat him right. Is that too much to ask for? I just think that Joss starting yet another series on yet another broadcast network is too much of a risk. I honestly have no idea what he is planning to do though after Firefly, but the waiting is killing me!
[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2004-07-16 07:04 ]
electricspacegirl | July 16, 08:55 CET
True. Anyone feel like writing Ancier and Janollari? (Setting my extreme skepticism aside for a moment in favor of community-minded fuzzy-wuzziness) if they're considering movies, then positive fan feedback couldn't hurt:
Warner Brothers Network
Attn: Garth Ancier, Chairman and CEO
4000 Warner Blvd., Building 34R
Burbank, CA 91522
Replace GA On the Attn: line with David Janollari, President -- Entertainment.
Wiseblood | July 16, 10:10 CET
What a joke. They screwed up and screwed the fans. If I was JW and company I would say screw the WB, hello TNT.
DarenG | July 16, 10:48 CET
I think the odds of that happening are faaar smaller even than the tv movies. Especially the 'treat him right' bit.....
EdDantes | July 16, 13:52 CET
I would take anything, I suppose. I'm just bitter right now and I don't believe anything the WB says anymore. They have to prove it before I believe any of these statements about Angel TV movies.
electricspacegirl | July 16, 14:03 CET
I pray Joss is just human enough to not trust WB. And when they do come calling with an offer tell them just where to get off.
verinthalia | July 16, 18:45 CET
NOLA64 | July 16, 19:28 CET
That said, when Firefly was announced we still had Buffy and Angel on our screens so i didn't need to choose between the two stories. Now we don't have that variety i have to say given the choice i'd rather see a new slayer show first. Firefly, even if it had survived as a tv series, would always have been my second choice after Buffy and Angel, largely due to my personal tastes leaning more towards the supernatural than the sci-fi.
I really look forward to a time when Joss tries to strike gold for the third time but let's have a new slayerverse series first huh! I need my vampire fix! ;)
Disciple of Spike | July 16, 19:50 CET