I have a feeling it will be a word for word transcript of the WB press tour conference. So very probably nothing we don't know already.

Simon | July 20, 19:07 CET

There's really only about two lines of information on Angel and it's all stuff we already know no use reading it really.

ShotgunWes | July 20, 19:13 CET

Simon, you are probably correct but as far as i'm concerned the more articles that appear about this the better.

More articles means that more fans will catch on to this possibilty, more fans catching on means more interest shown and more interest shown means more chance that these slayerverse movies happen.

Ultimately this may prove to actually be something real and the best way of ensuring that is gatteing people as excited as possible.

I say keep the articles coming and get the campaigns rolling again.

Disciple of Spike | July 20, 19:47 CET

Can we also take into effect Kristen's track record, or lest we forget her saying Angel would likely to be renewed according to her WB sources a week before it was cancel.

RavenU | July 20, 20:08 CET

Hehe, well RavenU you will hopefully notice that i made no reference to the content of the above article, just that the fact it exists is a good thing.

I think Kristen's reliability is suspect at best but to be fair to her i'll wait and read the rest of what she has to say when it eventually appears before i pass judgment.

Of course if she claims that the movies are going into production next week i will probably be looking for a second opinion ;)

Disciple of Spike | July 20, 20:14 CET

Usually, when she says something like that and we get excited, the quotes are something we've all already seen. It will probably be similar to the TV Guide incident, which referred to the animated series possibility, when we expecting some new news.

However, as for what Ancier said about the telefilm, he 'thinks' DB will do it after some coaxing. I think coaxing would mean showing him the money, because he has already stating he has no interest whatsoever in tv movies. Could it work without Boreanaz, and instead work as mix of characters from the Buffyverse?

trekkerj | July 20, 21:23 CET

Could it work without Boreanaz, and instead work as mix of characters from the Buffyverse?

We might think that it could work, depends if the WB will think the same.

Simon | July 20, 21:24 CET

I'm sure that the WB are well aware of the popularity of the slayerverse overall. It was Buffy the Vampire Slayer that originally put the network on the map after all, not Angel itself.

I'm certain that they have the common sense to know that any slayerverse movies would be welcomed by the fans, not just Angel specific ones.

Don't forget that having Spike move over to Angel last year was one of the demands the WB made so they clearly still value the Buffy audience as well. In fact that being the case suggests to me that James may well end up headlining one of these movies after all as the network clearly have a lot of faith in his appeal.

Disciple of Spike | July 20, 21:56 CET

The article says 'this season.' I'd lay odds that just won't happen. Especially if they want DB. If they want a Spike one, I bet JM would be willing to do that, but DB is off on his illustrious film career.....

Rogue Slayer | July 20, 22:03 CET

I'm sure if Joss had an idea for a plot that didn't involve Angel, the WB would go for it. It's more of the Buffyverse they want to capitilize on, not just the character of Angel. And Spike has always been an incredibly well received character on both shows and he'd be a logical choice for a leading role. And there's been a lot of talk lately about the WB hoping to have another great show like Buffy again and just the fact that they are acknowledging the greatness of BtVS now, when after it went to UPN they didn't even want her name mentioned on Angel shows they are willing to try and get some part of that franchise and recognition back. They want to reclaim Buffy as their own and pretend the move to UPN never happened.

See, I'm betting there was a huge fallout at the WB about the cancelling of Angel and the media and fan reaction to that decision and then on top of that, all their "promising" upcoming shows turned out to be major flops so they are trying to bring back a sure thing in the form of movies. They know we as an audience will tune into anything from the Buffyverse whether Angel is in it or not. They are very much aware now that they threw away the best show they had on their network and that the talk now is how bad the WB is and is getting. They are looking for some respect and Joss Whedon is how they want to get it. Now, if David does make them give him oodles of money to do a movie, good for him and I hope Joss does the same.

Firefly Flanatic | July 20, 22:29 CET

"See, I'm betting there was a huge fallout at the WB about the cancelling of Angel and the media and fan reaction to that decision and then on top of that, all their "promising" upcoming shows turned out to be major flops so they are trying to bring back a sure thing in the form of movies."

Pretty much what it looks like. But I don't think DB is going to do it. If it was years down the line, and somehow everything else he did flopped, I'm sure he would, but he seems to be doing fine right now and he's vehemently not interested in TV movies.

But we already know that Joss and James Marsters talked about doing 4 movies, each based on another Buffyverse character. With neither Sarah nor David interested in TV movies right now I think that's the way to go. And yeah, if you pick the right characters, there's plenty of Buffy/Angel fans that would watch those. Just don't expect any this season. I think that's a bit optimistic, but who knows.

I said it before and I'll say it again:
- Spike (Always popular. And we can learn a bit about what happened after 'Not Fade Away' Throw in Illyria and crazy slayer Dana or something.)
- Faith (Always good, just leave Wood out.)
- Giles (Perfect way to get the 'Ripper' movie out there after all)
- Willow (Everyone loves Willow. Just have Kennedy be a vague memory)

Not necessarily in that order. And what's to stop any of them from appearing a bit in each other's movies as well? And throw in other familiar faces. Clem! Lorne! Andrew!

Of course they could have Puppet Angel return! DB might be coaxed into it if it's just voice work? Or find a decent imitator! heheheh.

EdDantes | July 20, 22:41 CET

I do agree that DB's presence in any telemovie is not absolutely necessary. It's something I would like to see, but it's not absolutely necessary. DB has talked previously about his appearance at the end of Buffy as something that was owed the fans. If schedule allows, and this goes forward, I wonder if the fan response to the cancellation announcement might motivate him to come back for a few telemovies.

Angela | July 20, 22:49 CET

Did anybody else notice that Kristen also said Ally's sitcom DID NOT get picked up?

kimslilypad | July 20, 22:59 CET

Truthfully if David was only to do one of the telemovies, even in a cameo role, that would be enough for me and would make life a lot easier for the writers as they would be able to write a conclusion to Not Fade Away much more easily and believably if David was present at least at the beginning.

Assuming that this won't happen though i'm certain that the writers, whoever they turn out to be, will come up with an original and interesting way to explain how Spike survived and what happened to Angel, Gunn and Illyria.

Of course there is a high probability that Amy would come back for these movies and possibly J. August too which would make the writers lives easier again.

They could always do a "The Girl in Question" style appearance of Angel where you just see the back of his head as he is carried off by the dragon to whereabouts unknown ;)

Disciple of Spike | July 20, 22:59 CET

It would be weird to do Angel without Angel, DB is a huge part of it, so to call them Angel movies and have him not appear is a big let down for the main fans, some of us maybe be ok in seeing other characters only, and Angel maybe lesser, but not in general, hopefully when Boreanze talked about raising the bar, and doing things in a more bigger scale, the Angel movies will get a healthy budget of like 3 episodes or something to cover the lenght of 2 episodes which is length of a tv movie.

SeanValen | July 20, 23:43 CET

I think they are probably saying "Angel" movies because Angel was the most recent of the ME shows on the air and it is fresh is people's minds. I imagine what they actually mean to say is "Buffyverse" TV movies. And those can be done without David. There are plenty of characters and plenty of topics left unresolved to make them interesting. A Spike movie is the most obvious, easy choice, then maybe a watcher's council one with Giles, Andrew, and some of the potentials. If Ally would do it (and she might be more likely now that the sitcom didn't get picked up), a Willow movie would ROCK... maybe an Xavier's School kind of theme where Willow is using her gifts/powers to teach others about their own powers. Anyway, the possibilities are endless as far as I'm concerned. So I say to the WB exec's:
Let's go to work!

kimslilypad | July 21, 00:24 CET

For me, Angel only took attention away from characters that I was much more interested in (as in, at all), so I'd actually be thrilled if David wasn't involved. I'm cool with puppet Angel, though, never before had he shown such range and more than one facial expression. /rant

Something that could possibly (?) make a difference whether the movies happen or not is John Litvack resigning from The WB. He's the network's exec VP of current programming and scheduling.

faith1984 | July 21, 00:26 CET

If they can bring Spike back after Chosen then they can bring Wes back, and I'd love to see what happens with him and Ilyria.

I'm sure the BBC would be interested in co-financing/producing a Ripper show and I don't see anything else in Alysons upcoming diary so a Willow show could be a possibility.

In a way the Buffyverse has so many characters with the depth and appeal to carry a movie or new show that it's almost spoilt for choice.

zz9 | July 21, 00:59 CET

Then let them make a Buffyverse movie and leave us Angel-only-fans alone. But an Angel movie without Angel? Spare me.

"Angel, - you're the reason we've all come together. It's your mission which animates us. We each contribute, it's true, but you - you're unique." - Wes in one of my favourite episodes

Then again, what is Angel without his team? The show is over, maybe we should leave it at that.

Elo | July 21, 01:07 CET

I am all for Buffyverse movies...and to me that includes the Angelverse...but DB's Angel/Angelus was my favorite character...I will be disappointed if he is not in them...I will enjoy them...don't get me wrong...but there will be sadness there. Sorry I know some of you don't care for DB...but I am completely smitten by the actor, the character, and his show.

Coll | July 21, 02:26 CET

Warlock, I think that would be a great way to explain the absence of Angel and have the 4 stories be about Spike and a cast of Buffyverse charachters trying to find him.


"They could always do a "The Girl in Question" style appearance of Angel where you just see the back of his head as he is carried off by the dragon to whereabouts unknown."

Krall the Conqueror | July 21, 03:14 CET

Coll, i don't think that any of us here have a problem with David, certainly not from the comments i've read in this thread.

However he has made it relatively clear that he will only return to the character of Angel for a big screen movie deal. That is fine as far as i'm concerned because i honestly believe that the next time we see Buffy and Angel it should be together in a motion picture continuation of their story but i would hate to see future televised slayerverse adventures held up over one actor. There are way too many excellent characters and concepts for that to be the case.

It would be better if the "Angel movies" were referred to as "slayerverse movies" in these articles from now on because strictly speaking they probably won't be Angel specific at all.

Disciple of Spike | July 21, 03:57 CET

I've said it a million times and I'll say it again. ILLYRIA AND WESLEY SPIKE!

My whole take on the Wesley/Fred/Illyria story was that it was a love triangle and Fred was trying to be with Welsey beyond the grave, through Illyria. Given what Alexis has said, that the idea for a season 6 was for Angel and the MoG finding out that they can in fact bring Fred back, but by that time Wes would have grown attached to Illyria and be very torn, it makes me think something like that would still be possible, somehow.

That would have been a beautiful story. It frustrates me to no end over this missed opportunity. Before the finale, I wanted a Wesley/Illyria spinoff. I still do but no matter how much I want Wesley back, if they ever write his resurrection they will have to really earn it. If there is an Illyria movie or spinoff (an Illyria spinoff would kick ass) I would want them to explore bringing Wesley back, but have it have consequences that would be intense.

So if there's a group of single character-centric movies, give one to Illyria, PLEASE! I need some more Illyria worship.

And on that note, I just had an idea for a fanfic. Man, I'm obsessed.

electricspacegirl | July 21, 04:45 CET

See, I don't see a problem at all with bringing Wesley back. They already established that Illyria could go back in time and yes, they did use that gizmo to take away most of her power but they could also find a way to give it back to her temporarily so she could do just that. Now, it wouldn't even be farfetched that she would go and do that to herself just to go and get Wesley where he would then be furious at her for bringing him back because he was content to die. Of course he may not know about it at first because she would change time but eventually he may find out and be really pissed off.

Firefly Flanatic | July 21, 07:21 CET

I don't like stories that take the easy way out of something like that. I'm sorry, I want him back as much any Wesley fan, but I'd rather there be consequences, and I'd rather that the way to bring him back be something we would never imagine.

[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2004-07-21 05:38 ]

electricspacegirl | July 21, 07:35 CET

Well I'm with electricspacegirl on this one. Wesley is my favorite Whedonverse (much prefer that term to the standard "Buffyverse" or "Slayerverse") character, and I would truly love to see more stories with/about him. But as much as I adore Wesley (and all the characters on 'Angel'), I'd almost prefer they just leave it alone. Spike USED to be my favorite Whedonverse character, but he's been stretched a bit thin... overexposed. I still love him, but I'm just not eager to see anything more of him right now.

If Wesley were to be brought back somehow it would have to be mindblowingly cool and original, and it would have to be riddled with consequences. Not like 'Buffy' Season Six... something more interesting than that.

I just don't care much at all to see anything focusing on the 'Buffy' cast ever again, and I'm going to be really critical of any attempt to continue 'Angel'... so I think it's best if they just let it all lie for now.

Haunt | July 21, 08:13 CET

Haunt, i just made this point to somebody at another board but i think it deserves repeating here.

You said - "I just don't care much at all to see anything focusing on the 'Buffy' cast ever again, and I'm going to be really critical of any attempt to continue 'Angel'... so I think it's best if they just let it all lie for now."

That is an opinion i see a fair amount on these kind of boards and i have to say it is a very selfish attitude to have. Because you personally have no further interest in something you are saying that it should not happen thereby denying everyone who does want to see it transpire.

If these movies, or any other continuation for that matter, do not happen then we all miss out whether we want to or not. If they get made however those of us who want them will be happy and those not interested, such as yourself, can choose not to watch. but at least then we ALL get what we want.

I personally lost interest in Farscape last year during what i considered to be an abysmal fourth season that totally ruined the show for me. However the last thing i would say is that i didn't want the new Farscape mini series to happen. The show still has many fans who deserve to get what they want as well. I won't be watching it but i'm glad that they will have the chance to.

Isn't that a fairer way to think?

As much as a show might mean to you it is important to realise that you are only one fan with one opinion. Finding the option that will result in as many people being satisfied as possible is surely the best way to go.

Disciple of Spike | July 21, 14:36 CET

While I agree with the sentiment of your post, Warlock, I think you might be attributing rather too much influence to Haunt's words. He can't really deny further Buffy/Joss/Slayerverse shows from coming to pass, after all. (Unless he is, in fact, cleverly positioned in the halls of TV programming or by Joss's bedside lamp . . . ). While I would love to see any continuation, I can respect Haunt's opinion - and I don't think it was much more than that - that a moment of pause might be in order.

Having said that, I vehemently disagree with any implicit suggestion that the Buffy storyline and its cast are somehow played out - but that's a whole big can o' worms that I choose not to bite into right now. ;)

SoddingNancyTribe | July 21, 20:14 CET

I think you misunderstood the point of my post a little. It isn't that i believe his opinion, or that of any of the individual fans, is in anyway going to effect whether the movies happen or not.

It is more that i get a little annoyed with the fact that some people hold the opinion that because they do not want something to happen then it should not happen at all rather than just deciding to not partake in it themselves.

As i hope i made clear i can absolutely respect Haunt's opinion that he will not be interested in future Buffy projects but the fact that he follows that up by suggesting things should be let lie because he personally isn't bothered is what i was objecting to.

Again i just feel that it stinks of selfishness to wish that something doesn't happen because you yourself do not want it to, that's all.

Disciple of Spike | July 21, 21:39 CET

The Warlock: thanks for the clarification. As sometimes happens with these things, my initial agreement with you has developed into utter disagreement. :)

First, I don't think I misunderstood your post. The statement: "Because you personally have no further interest in something you are saying that it should not happen thereby denying everyone who does want to see it transpire", to me at least, means that you believe the opinion is likely to have some effect.

In any case, I can't meaningfully distinguish between - as phrased by you, - Haunt's opinion number 1, that he will not be interested in future Buffy projects, and opinion number 2, that such projects should not happen. In both instances, he is essentially saying the same thing: he doesn't want to see any such developments. There's certainly a semantic difference between the statements, but unless you believe he can prevent such projects, they express the identical sentiment. To be consistent, you should object to both 1 and 2. Of course, in objecting, you must recognize that it's his opinion, and he has a right to express it. And we have a right to disagree, as we both did. Surely that's the purpose of Whedonesque and other boards, no?

Finally, I (and many others, I'd wager) am often guilty of the same "selfishness". There are any number of shows/potential shows that I would like to see over and done with, including *every single "reality" show ever made*, notwithstanding the fact that many people may get a lot of enjoyment from watching them. I could justify my opinion on the grounds that screen time would be freed up for shows more to my taste (just as, presumably, Haunt could justify his opinion by arguing that Joss's and others' talents would be freed up to pursue other projects), but, frankly, I can't be bothered. I just hate them, and find them an affront to my peaceful existence. And, happily, I am able to say so. :). End rant. Begin search for more coffee.

SoddingNancyTribe | July 21, 22:21 CET

I don't wish to dwell on this because you clearly are still missing my intended point but i will attempt to clarify one more time before ending my part in a debate that is going nowhere.

My point is that if a given show does not get made then nobody will be able to see it and to hope for that outcome is, in my opinion, a selfish thing to do when the alternative is just not to watch. That does not suggest i believe the opinion will have any bearing on the outcome, merely that to hope for the negative outcome is not taking others into account.

Can you see the distinction i am trying to make now?

As for your comment about reality shows, whilst i share your detest in them i can appreciate that others like them and therefore have no problem with them existing. My arguement there would be that there is no good reason why there cannot be a balance of programming that includes everything from good Whedony type drama to the latest reality fad.

Again though i would not be so selfish as to take the option of watching reality television away from those who choose to watch it.

Disciple of Spike | July 21, 23:31 CET