"Personal misgivings aside, the thought of Joss Whedon being able to train most of his energies on a single film is encouraging. Though fans would love for him to have several shows running concurrently, quality control is key, and we’ve not yet seen what the guy can do unburdened by the rigors of keeping numerous shows up to his above-average standards. Judging from his pained reaction to every BUFFY or ANGEL question lobbed his way from the Whedon-centric crowd, it’s pretty obvious that the continuing adventures of the FIREFLY universe is what really turns him on."



Maybe, he was just tired. Hopefully, he still wants to make the Angel telemovies....Hopefully.

[ edited by Caroline on 2004-07-28 16:43 ]

ShotgunWes | July 28, 17:43 CET

Firefly may be his new girlfriend, but I'm gonna stick my neck here and say more people want a continuation of the Buffyverse than a Firefly movie.

How Joss will deal with this in months to come is anyone's guess. Cause whenever he does interviews about 'Serenity', he's going to get reporters asking the same old questions 'Is Angel coming back?', 'Are you going to make a Buffy movie'?.

Simon | July 28, 18:14 CET

It makes me feel guilty to be the impatient, foot-tapping party breathing down the neck of Joss Whedon to continue ‘Angel’or 'Buffy' in some form when he’s the one who has to do all the work.

I can totally understand him just wanting to concentrate on ‘Serenity’ right now because it’s like the new thing you just can’t get enough of. And if it’s brilliant, which I have no doubt it will be (no pressure there!), it could lead to him having more of a say and not being jerked around so much by the Powers That Be in Hollywood.
I think he can take some time out from the Buffyverse without losing any momentum. We’ll still be here, right?

bloodflowers | July 28, 18:25 CET

I added quotation marks to your post, ShotgunWes.

Caroline | July 28, 18:43 CET

It's not a democracy, though. It's not about what more fans want, I don't think. It was frustrating, for me, to hear the Buffy and Angel questions during the panel because the I felt like it was this casts' moment in the sun. There was very little time for the Q&A, and fans of Buffy and Angel have had almost 10 years to get their questions answered at cons and panels and PBPs.

Buffy is my girl, i love her most as a literary hero, I don't think I'll ever again be so moved by a hero's journey story. And I miss her and all, but this wasn't that, you know?

And Joss wouldn't be where he is now without that story, I realize of course. It's a gorgeous legacy of which he should be proud, especially given that years later, people are still talking with great love about this television show that ended.

Firefly's story is so similar at its heart to his other stories. A band of misfits with tremendously painful life experiences that finds itself grouped together to form a family in extraordinary circumstances and who try despite great hardship to do the right thing. And sometimes fail miserably. The characters and story are familiar in this way, and Whedon (and Minear) fell deeply in love with them and had it wrenched away before they got to really develop them and tell their stories. And this is such a rare gift, this second chance, that I think it's only fair to allow Whedon and the cast to relish every moment of this.

Allyson | July 28, 18:48 CET

This article kind of bugged me. He judged the show without even seeing it the way it was meant to be shown. He should have really given it a chance before assuming it wasn't as good as people say.

electricspacegirl | July 28, 18:52 CET

Electicspacegirl, unfortunately, a lot of people because of the order it was shown in, didn't stick around long enough as viewers to watch Firefly straight through. The fact that this guy is willing to give it another try is encouraging that others reading his report could also want to see what it's all about.

I'm thrilled that the Serenity board received that kind of response. I'm with Allyson on this one! Let's give Serenity a chance to shine! I don't think Joss is wanting to abandon the Buffyverse and has made several comments about wanting to do a movie. But the time now is for Serenity. I am so excited to see this movie and am so looking forward to it. I think Firefly had a chance to be one of the greatest shows ever and I think Joss had a long wonderful arc for this series and I was devasted, as I'm sure he and Tim Minear were when it got cancelled.

And, as Allyson said, this is a rare gift to get this second chance and they deserve to be able to basque in the spotlight!

That said, I think it is only expected to expect questions about the Buffyverse, especially in light of Angel's early demise as well and all the talks floating around about possible movies. But I don't think those questions should've dominated the session.

Firefly Flanatic | July 28, 19:07 CET

I know it's not a democracy, and if Joss decided to knock together a shoddy Angel TV movie just to placate the fans I would be the first to say "Ere, hang on a moment. Wise up now" (helps if you hear it in a Northern Irish accent).

I agree with what Allyson says but I'm also very sympathetic to the fans who feel robbed because Angel ended and who want 'their' Buffyverse back.


And yes I do want to see 'Serenity' very badly though I have doubts of when it will be shown in the UK. 'Hellboy' hasn't even come out here, and I saw that in the States donkeys ago.

Simon | July 28, 19:13 CET

My only fear is... is that if "Firefly" is a success and I hope it is, he'll just forget about all things Angel and or Buffy and focus only on a "Serenity" trilogy. Love Firefly and all, but love Angel and Buffy more.

nychick | July 28, 19:23 CET

I want Joss to do what he's passionate about because that is where he shines. If he's feeling the passion for Serenity right now, he should go with it, even if that means putting the Buffyverse on hold. He has said repeatedly that he wants to do a Buffy movie and he had three shows on the air at once and was working on Fray. The guy likes to work so if he has a story for the Buffyverse he wants to tell, I'm sure he'd be able to do both Serenity and something for the Buffyverse.

Firefly Flanatic | July 28, 19:32 CET

Let's see, Firefly is about halfway through filming now? Let's say he's done in September. That's about 8 months till the release to do all the post-production stuff, which I'm sure he will oversee like editing and special effects, but not actually be doing himself (correct me if I'm wrong, I don't really know how these things work). He has never seemed to want a break that long, even if he is tired. Take a month or two off, Joss, take the wife and kid outta town. But if it takes 8 days to do a regular Buffy/Angel ep, lets say 2 weeks for a tv movie, he would have ample time to do it between the end of Serenity filming and before its inevitable success.

randygiles | July 28, 19:36 CET

I'm not going to take sides on the Firefly/Buffy/Angel debate, partly because I am genuinely looking forward to whatever comes next from JW, partly because I keep agreeing with each point of view as I read it. Fickle, much?

But I entirely don't get the AICN comment that Joss had a "pained reaction" to every Buffy or Angel question. From where I was sitting (not too far back, slightly right of center - that's a change for me ;)), he was happy to answer every question in that faux-I'm slightly wounded by that remark but will give an incredibly witty answer - way of his.

One thing that is true is that he clearly wanted to bring the cast members in on the questioning - in fact, he asked them a question himself, perhaps because not enough floor questions were directed toward them. That's not the same as suggesting he exhibited some sort of negativitity towards Buffy/Angel questions. Maybe the reviewer was not familiar with Joss's slightly world-weary style of speaking.

SoddingNancyTribe | July 28, 19:45 CET

You know, I love Buffy and Angel passionately, but with the shows over I think it's Joss' time to move on, at least for the time being.

I don't think that it should become his lifes work.Firefly has shown that his mind is full of ideas, and I think after 12 seasons that anyone whould be allowed to go off and do other projects.

I'm very excited about Serenity, it should be a fantastic film. A third Buffyverse show would be nice to have one day, but if it doesn't happen I'm happy with what we're getting. I wish success on all of his future endeavors.I found Angel's ending satisfying enough thematicly to close the book.

rabid | July 28, 19:53 CET

My sentiments exactly, rabid. Firefly never got it's chance to really become the show it was meant to be, and despite that it struck such a chord with people that we're still fighting for it. I don't think I would be doing the same for Buffy had only the first 11 episodes of that been shown (and out of order no less).

I almost hate Joss for introducing Illyria though. If there was one reason that I crave some sort of continuation of the Buffyverse it's because of Illyria. :)

ringworm | July 28, 20:04 CET

I would absolutely agree that Joss should have the opportunity to go with his heart and for the time being that is with Serenity.

This is the first chance he has had to take one of is creations to the big screen and control the outcome himself. Something that will hopefully help put the painful memories of the end result of the Buffy movie behind him for good.

Once this is done and dusted he will hopefully return to the core of his fanbase. As Simon said there are probably considerably more people out there who want to see more slayerverse than Firefly but i for one would rather he continue his first creation at a time when he is personally ready and inspired. To do so now would likely result in a lacklustre effort which none of us would want to see happen.

If quality means we wait a year or so then i say we wait. In the meantime we keep the slayerverse alive and well in our hearts and in the media eye and look forward to the new adventures when they arrive.

Disciple of Spike | July 28, 20:10 CET

Good point Ringworm. I think if Buffy hadn't been renewed after it's first season I would've been disappointed but although I loved it, I didn't feel the obsession with it yet like I did with Firefly. I think Joss had mastered his craft by the time he did Firefly. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely am obsessed with the Buffyverse too but it wasn't as instant as it was with Firefly. I would love to see the Buffyverse continue in some form but I'm also eager to see what else Joss can do, especially after falling so head over heels in love with Firefly!

And yes, damn Joss for giving us Illyria when he did! I too want to see a lot more of that character!! Or should I correct that and say damn the WB!!

Firefly Flanatic | July 28, 20:11 CET

I want Joss to do what he's passionate about because that is where he shines. If he's feeling the passion for Serenity right now, he should go with it, even if that means putting the Buffyverse on hold.
Hear, hear. Selfishly, would I rather he continue to tell more tales from the Buffyverse? Perhaps. That's the world, and the characters, I'm more invested in. I liked Firefly, but i don't feel the passion for it that I do for Buffy and Angel. But I'll be the first to say Joss should go wherever he's feeling the pull. And right now, it's understandable for me that that's Serenity. Firefly, unlike Buffy, was left unfinished. He had so much more he wanted to do with it, so many places he can go. That he's getting a second chance, and on the big screen no less, is fabulous. I'd rather he focus all his attention there and do a great job – and thereby get more chances in the future – than dilute his work with other projects. I have no doubt (i hope!) he'll return to the buffyverse in some form, some day, but I understand why he's 100 percent into Firefly right now. I, for one, am incredibly eager to see what he can do on the big screen (even though i must admit to feeling like his talents are more needed on television... there are a lot of great movies that come out each year, but oh so few good TV shows). And if he was impatient with the Buffy/Angel questions (it sounds like that may have just been this viewer's interpretation), that's understandable too – he had nine Serenity cast members up there, and this was the place for the focus to be on them and their show. I don't think we should read too much into it, or think it means he's done with the buffyverse.

acp | July 28, 21:12 CET

Yes, damn everyone regarding Illyria. I'm currently reviewing the last 9 episodes of Angel as research two post-NFA fics. Watching the Illyria story unfold just makes me insane because of what could have been. It's a fantastic story and the potential was there for so much more and all we got was a just the beginning. It's like we only got to read the first chapter of a great book because the author never finished it.

[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2004-07-28 19:29 ]

electricspacegirl | July 28, 21:23 CET

Look Joss will get Buffy questions just like SMG got Buffy questions, and Eliza Dushku gets Faith questions. I think what eliminates that from happening is Joss to be as definitive as possible as to the future of the characters. For ex. "There may be a TV movie in a year or so centering around one of the ancillary characters," or "A spin-off series is possible but it won't be for a while and will include all new characters." The fans have always looked to him for direction. Personally, I don't think anyone involved has too much trouble answering questions about Buffy. The more time passes, the longer the Buffy void remains unfilled by either new adventures in the Slayerverse or even another genre show the more I believe everyone will realize what a significant show Buffy was.

IMMORTAL | July 28, 21:41 CET

Excellent (in full on Monty Burns) post, Allyson.

[ edited by Unitas on 2004-07-28 20:41 ]

Unitas | July 28, 22:40 CET

It's because of Buffy that some of us bought the Firefly DVD set...which I love. Fox was stupid for cancelling it before it found it's audience. In the DVD set, the special features section explains that "The Train Job" was the first episode that Fox aired, because they didn't want to air the pilot until later in the season. ME's explanation for this was that Fox wanted to jump in the middle of the action, instead of have a big exposition to introduce the characters. Well, that too was stupid for Fox, because introducing the characters is how we cling to them and invest real interest in them. I didn't know this was the case when Fox aired "The Train Job", so I erased it from my Tivo without really watching more than a few minutes. I had no clue what was going on. Since I didn't understand, I assumed that I missed my opportunity to record and watch the pilot episode, and didn't bother with the rest of the show. (Remember, that Buffy was still on the air, and I was content with that and Angel at the time.) Now I am glad that I picked up the box set of DVDs, because the entire series ROCKS! I will definately go see the movie, and I urge all Buffy and Angel fans to go get Firefly on DVD. It's very much worth it, and I have to admit that the character interactions do seem a bit more complicated and enriched; (like a preacher hanging out with a hooker -legal but moral?)
This new 'verse that Joss has created is so rich on so many levels and still so open for exploration. (The characters even refer to the universe as 'verse, which seems like a nod to the Buffyverse or its fans.)
When Serenity is released, I know it will knock our socks off! Go Joss! By the way, Kudos to you, Joss, for making the second episode (which was Fox's idea of a pilot) blend so well with the actual pilot episode. You refrained from redundancy, and the two go together well when I watch the series on DVD.

toontimer | July 28, 22:45 CET

Simon Hellboy is due out on September 3rd in UK cinemas if you wish to see it again and I was surprised by this "The Grudge" on October 29th

garda39 | July 28, 23:03 CET

Just throwing in with Allyson and everyone else to agree Joss should be given the space to focus on and enjoy working on Serenity to whatever degree he feels necessary. I love Angel, I miss it already and I'm still bitter it was taken away so soon, but I think I might love the inventiveness of Joss's mind even more. Whatever it is he's excited about, odds are I'm going to get excited about it, too.

These amazingly full-fleshed 'verses are all the products of his singular imagination (with the help of those he's found to help him bring them to life). They're his toys. I couldn't be more grateful that he cares to share them with us, and that he keeps trying to give us new, wonderful things when we've already been so immensely gifted.

So I'm missing my favorite vampire and his cohorts? They're still alive in Joss. When he wants to, if he wants to -- if they want to -- they'll speak through him again. I can definitely be patient. I know however long it takes, whatever comes will be worth the wait.

Wiseblood | July 29, 01:28 CET

I don't feel there's a real 'competition' for Joss' attention with these projects. And at the panel, people asked questions about Firefly too. It wasn't just Buffyverse stuff. There were just a lot of general Joss-questions.

And Joss said there as he had before, that he's convinced he'll be able to continue the Buffyverse in some form. Angel just ended, he's got Serenity now, he's thinking of doing Buffyverse TV movies....it's not 'either/or', it's just 'first this, then that'.

And of course, many people are deep into the Buffyverse if only because we've had 8 years to get into it. Firefly only got 15 eps. I love both 'verses' but I really think Firefly/Serenity is what should be focused on now. I can't wait to see it and I'd love it to become a trilogy. In between he can make TV movies and the odd comic.

And yeah lemme agree with the people who say that Joss should follow his inspiration. That's where the good stuff comes from. Let the man fly...;-)

EdDantes | July 29, 02:18 CET

Poor Joss, people are so demanding of genius! The guy has a family, let him spend some time with them. I can't believe people are complaining that he's *only* working on two projects at once!

I'd rather have a well rested, mental juices flowing, quality creating Joss than a burned out Joss that ends up doing crap because people just want *some*thing of their favorite 'verse. (Read some of the crappy novels if that's all you're after. Or cheaper-fan fiction)

I would love to see the Buffyverse on tv everyday of my life, new epis and concepts, etc. But I've fallen in love with every project Joss has had control over, so I have to have faith that whatever he does in the future, whether it's related to Firefly or Buffy or X-Men or something entirely new will be brilliant!
He'll give me something new and exciting to obsess over!

Rogue Slayer | July 29, 03:24 CET

Haven't read the whole thread yet, but had to comment on the report.

Why people just keep reducing either Firefly or Buffyverse series to just plain mere concepts? That really bugs me. Is it that hard to understand that "space western" is just the setting for the whole show, that it is a lot more than a mere concept.

Yeah, when Joss was selling BtVS to the networks, he did use X-Files mixed with 90210 speech, but that was to facilitate the sale. It was only a speech. You can't really make it hard to understand when talking with those single minded TV execs.

I believe we'll still see a lot of things from Joss and CO, either in form of new avenues in the BUffyverse, in the Firefly / Serenity world, or something altogether new.

I do miss having my fix of Buffyverse on TV. But I believe he'll return to it someday, don't want to push or rush him. Maybe when it comes back, it will be better and improved. I also want my fix on the Firefly-verse.

Joss does get tired, and so much deserves a break, but as we speak, he's still making all the effort to make Serenity a big theather hit, and is also writing a big hit comic book. He does a lot o things at the same time.

I'd like to finish my comment by quoting the man himself, from the "Once More, WIth Feeling" Soundtrack.

"It's possible the word "vacation" has a different meaning for other people, but in my tirbe it means "chance to work really hard on something else"(...)"

[ edited by Numfar PTB on 2004-07-29 02:55 ]

[ edited by Numfar PTB on 2004-07-29 02:56 ]

Numfar PTB | July 29, 04:50 CET

"Why people just keep reducing either Firefly or Buffyverse series to just plain mere concepts? That really bugs me. Is it that hard to understand that "space western" is just the setting for the whole show, that it is a lot more than a mere concept."

Everything these days is about simple basic concepts. It's sad. And what is good about Joss' stuff can't be captured in a single high-concept catchphrase. Which is why I'm actually worried about how they're going to sell Serenity to the mainstream. Every movie trailer out there these days shows either a simple concept, just a famous face, or both.

I have a good feeling Serenity is going to kick the ass of most SF films of the last 10 years (if not all) but it has neither a famous face nor a 'cathphrase-concept' that does it justice (as you say, 'space western' while not entirely wrong, doesn't begin to describe it) So maybe to the numbed out mainstream it will be a hard sell. I hope that's not the case, some movies take off and surprise everyone and I hope this is one. I want that trilogy!

Plus, as I understand it, they open in a pretty quiet time of the year so I'm hoping there's no real competition.

EdDantes | July 29, 06:16 CET

Interesting that you guys raise this point. The one question that I was going to ask Joss at the convention - yeah right, once the 4-year old boy got off me and the line subsided - was how he and each cast member would have us "sell" Serenity to people who had never seen the show. I thought it would be great to go hit the streets with their own ideas . . . Maybe someone can ask them if they see them?

SoddingNancyTribe | July 29, 06:19 CET

Like this reporter, I too was guilty of forming a premature judgement of Firefly as aired on FOX. I remember how much I was looking forward to the airing of this series because Joss Whedon was its creator. Sadly, I lost interest by the fourth episode because I couldn't make sense of the characters. "Why is Zoe so loyal to Mal?" "What's the deal with River?" So, I quit watching. After Firefly was cancelled, I started reading how upset Joss was with FOX for not showing the episodes in their intended order. Curious, I decided to give Firefly a second chance so I purchased the DVD box set.

The difference was night and day! I watched all 14 episodes, back to back, in one sitting. I was completely fascinated by the characters and story. Like the first season of BtVS, Joss was building much depth to these wonderful 9 characters. FOX really did Firefly a disservice by not airing the episodes in correct order. I feel if they had, the ratings would have been much higher. And, like the second season of BtVS, Firefly would have taken off like a rocket (pardon the pun) if it had a second season. Looking forward to the movie in April.

Being a "the glass is half-full" type, I don't think we've seen the last of our favorite slayer. Joss has said that there are plenty of untold stories in the Buffyverse. Give him time, I'm sure the wait will be worth it. Same for Angel. And any new stories spinning around in Joss' mind. That "I'm thinking HBO because I feel like doing some cussin'" statement still has me wondering. Try to imagine how dark Joss could go with a character like Fray on that network. Sends chills down my spine.

[ edited by Madhatter on 2004-07-29 19:37 ]

Madhatter | July 29, 17:36 CET

Exactly Madhatter. I've been whingeing for Joss to go to HBO ever since Angel aired it's last. And the Fray idea is exactly the example I've used. I think it would be amazing.

Since Joss isn't used to just working on one thing at a time, maybe we won't have to wait until Serenity is completely out of his system. I have no problem with the "continuing adventures of..." our beloved Browncoats, as long as we get something else from his incredible fertile mind from time to time... *greedy*

Willowy | July 29, 19:45 CET