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August 04 2004

Robia Lamorte explains why she won't be attending the Vulkon con

Actually I *am* friends with Robia (as Ravenu on this board can verify) and so yeah, when I see posts like this, it kind of gets my back up. I agree that posting that plea to the fans was a hasty, impetuous choice and that she should have left religion out of it and she opened herself up to backlash.

I moderate her board and I wanted to delete the post the minute I saw it, because I knew how the online non-christian community would react. But what I realized was, was that it was HER BOARD. And an openly religious one. So it wasnt my place to delete the post. Frankly I was shocked to see it spread so quickly everywhere. I guess we didnt realize our little community was being read by so many lurkers.

I think its obvious to the entire online Buffy community that Robia and JCB argued... as Robia herself told the fans. So I don't think my statement will start any more speculation than what is already being discussed. My point in my reply to your post was to squash any possible rumours about Robia being fired over a religious issue... it had NOTHING to do with that.

Sorry if it pissed you off that I asked people not to speculate on that particular issue. But as she *is* my friend I *do* get angry when I read such negative stuff, and like I would for any other friend, I feel the need to help her when I feel she is being unfairly treated.

[ edited by spring on 2004-08-07 00:46 ]

[ edited by spring on 2004-08-07 01:35 ]
Deleted

[ edited by blwessels on 2004-08-07 05:04 ]
"Spiritual warfare"...."God panel"....I...I haven't the words.....

My Joss, for someone who so HATES what her character stood for, she's sure fighting tooth and nail to be at the Buffy cons! But now I see why....a bit o' hidden agenda, yeah?

I had joked with Ed that maybe the con wouldn't let her sell her 'god' cd's, but I guess I wasn't as far off as I thought! At least according to her....
I am by no means a religious person, but I don't see what the harm is in her doing such a panel at the convention.

I am surprised to hear that Julie Caitlin Brown is no longer booking her for conventions anymore though. Those of you who went to Comic-Con may remember seeing her hovering aroung the Buffy and Angel actors upstairs in the Autograph area.
I doubt it was a panel of Robia spouting her religious beliefs. Maybe a panel on the elements of spirituality in Buffy? I could be naive in giving her the benefit of the doubt, but I would never not want her (or anyone) to be there.
...okay what. the. frell?

I'm... That's...

Okay, sorry. English language doing a bit of the failing me thing today.

Did I mention what the frell?

The enemy? Mother of pearl.
I doubt it was a panel of Robia spouting her religious beliefs. Maybe a panel on the elements of spirituality in Buffy? I could be naive in giving her the benefit of the doubt, but I would never not want her (or anyone) to be there.

I have a sneaking suspicion it WOULD be her spouting her religious beliefs. She wanted to talk about God to hundreds of people, according to her. It's like a mission to her, I think. I don't think it was about spirituality in the Buffyverse, because as we all know, Joss does not prescribe to the Sky-Bully theory(and therefore there's not many, if any, references to him in the Buffyverse), and Robia specifically wants to talk about God.

Personally don't think it's the place for it, but I guess that's just my opinion.

And so is Julie Caitlin Brown Satan, or is she just working for him??
It also makes me wonder if Julie is going to threaten to pull all of the other talent that she represents off the Vulkon convention (Danny, Tom, Adam, James C., George, Iyari) if Robia is allowed to come back.

I just noticed that Vulkon updated their list of guests.
If it is all about "spiritual beliefs," I find it interesting with JCB because at Moonlight Rising, she did this Love First seminar all about god sending love and you sending out love and appreciating god and all that.

I also met Robia at a Vulkon event last year, and she preached on God during her talks and discussed religion to anyone that would listen...so Fernando knew what he was getting into when he booked her.
"ps. this is spiritual warfare. you know i was going to have a God panel there and have an opportunity to talk about God to hundreds of people. the enemy is trying to stop what's going on."

Okay, that quote says it all. Her agenda is all about spreading the word of God to 100's of people and "the enemy" is trying to stop her. I have nothing against Christianity but I think there is a time and a place for sermons and spreading the word than a sci-fi convention with a bunch of fans who just want to see the their favorite stars. I wouldn't want to pay that kind of money and be all excited about seeing someone in real life to then be preached to. If you want to think that it's no big deal that she wants to be able to do this then it should also be the same as thinking it's okay to sell Sideshow toys during Sunday's Catholic mass. They just don't mix and there's a time and place for everything.

All I can picture is how my sister was when she became a "born again Christian". Every conversation she was in was filled with preaching and "Satan" this and "Satan" that. At one Christmas we all had to get a lecture on how evil Santa was and how Satan makes you do bad things. My kids were invited to one of her kids birthday parties and her and her church group decided that it was time to let all the children know that Santa wasn't real and that the idea of him was Pagan and evil. Now I don't know if Robia is like that but I wouldn't want to hear a lecture on how evil Witchcraft is and how people are fooling themselves into thinking it's okay. She's made comments like that on her website. As a Pagan, I know there are a lot of Buffy fans who are also Pagan and would be very offended by any comments like that. Fortunately, my sister has found a new church and is still very much a Christian but isn't trying to convert the world anymore and is much more open minded.
RogueSlayer: no sneaking suspicion about it. Ms. LaMorte added another post which said:
...it is not surprising that the enemy would try to block me from being able to bring God into these cons. however God has the final say! no weapon formed against me shall prosper! i know that if i just wait on God that in His time He will vindicate me. the truth always comes to the light!

so, i am choosing to handle this in the most Godly way possible. i am trusting that God will work this out somehow for my benefit! romans 8:28!...

Yeah okay....uhm....look freedom to everyone to believe whatever they want. But....bloody hell.

I read most of her site, and apparently on more than a few levels, she's pretty much regretting her role as Jenny Calendar because she practiced magic. Because that is serving the Devil. Well anyone who thinks like that is fanatical in my book. Just my opinion but then hey, this is an opinion board.

It especially irks me since what people like her call 'evil witch craft' was really just the old religions people practiced before christianity took over europe and wiped out other POVs. Most of those old religions didn't even HAVE a 'devil' in them but hey, who needs logic or truth when you have a spiritual agenda right?

"I doubt it was a panel of Robia spouting her religious beliefs. Maybe a panel on the elements of spirituality in Buffy? I could be naive in giving her the benefit of the doubt, but I would never not want her (or anyone) to be there. "

Well her beliefs as clearly outlined in her site and her choice of words concerning her non-appearance would nix that hopeful theory:

ps. this is spiritual warfare. you know i was going to have a God panel there and have an opportunity to talk about God to hundreds of people. the enemy is trying to stop what's going on.

And what Save Angel added: "...it is not surprising that the enemy would try to block me from being able to bring God into these cons. however God has the final say! no weapon formed against me shall prosper! i know that if i just wait on God that in His time He will vindicate me. the truth always comes to the light!
so, i am choosing to handle this in the most Godly way possible. i am trusting that God will work this out somehow for my benefit! romans 8:28!...


Yeah I'd say the benefit of the doubt is out of the window. Good grief she means all this? Guess she's reaalllly important....And yeah to any strict christian, 'spritual warfare' is the fight for souls between god and satan and apparently her appearance was to be a part of that. Which means trying to convert people. Apparently it's her task now to go to cons and save those poor Buffy fans from that Wicca stuff. Pfff.

And now the devil himself is trying to stop Robia from saving us....ooooookaay..... I'll pass, thanks.

I don't really like the idea of paying for someone to try and 'convert' me. And really in general, someone trying to convert me is kind of offensive to me. If I talked to someone like her and I would try to convince her to no longer be a christian, she and almost everyone else would call boo and hiss and attack me for not respecting her religious beliefs and consider me a terrible person. Of course her doing the same to me is perfectly okay.

Right. Because you only matter when you are a member of an organized religion, I keep forgetting.
Robia hosted a panel at the Cleveland Vulkon that dealt with her beliefs in Christianity it was in one of the smaller panel rooms not the big Q&A room and for the most part it cut down on her religous disscussion during her Q&A time. I have no problem with her doing a panel on her beliefs she attracts other people who feel the same as she does and everyone seems to enjoy the disscussion. Yes she is one to talk religion at the drop of a hat to anyone who will listen. This panel was actually started {btw} after some fans ask Vulkon if they would ask her if she would do it.

JCB also happens to be James Marsters booking manager, besides 80% of the other Buffy/Angel guest. Also for those not aware JCB was also an actress goto imdb.com to check out her acting gigs for those who have never seen her.
CoRo_Jenn - "I also met Robia at a Vulkon event last year, and she preached on God during her talks and discussed religion to anyone that would listen...so Fernando knew what he was getting into when he booked her."

There's a very good chance that there was a lot of negative feedback to the convention about her preaching to everyone. Some will be okay with that but a lot might not be. It is also very likely that she was asked not to do that and she refused and that could be what brought this about - her being uninvited that is.
Yes this is an opinion board so I'm keeping a very close eye on this thread. I DO NOT want it getting out of hand. Religion is a very touchy subject and I should know coming from where I live. I do not want to see someone's beliefs attacked.
Oh yeah, I forgot that JCB also books Marsters. Well, that would complicate matters, wouldn't it? :(
RavenU, I went to your imdb link and was hoping to find a picture because I don't recognize the name and can't picture who this person is - no such luck - no picture!
She has the right to express her beliefs, but like blwessels said, there’s a time and a place for everything. Would she even be answering fan’s questions or would she have some sort of prepared sermon? Would the Q&A be turned into some sort of a revival meeting? I would head for the nearest exit.

People who profess to be ‘religious’ or ‘born again’, but then use words like “enemy” and “spiritual warfare” make me nervous. And spouting Bible verses instead of expressing one’s own opinions makes me think ‘brainwashed,’ not ‘spreading God’s love’.

Maybe she’s just trying to save us all from ‘following’ that atheist Joss Whedon.
Heres a good picture of Julie Brown on a episode of Sliders

http://www.earthprime.com/episode/s5/11/215.jpg
Those of us who feel strongly that this sort of preaching does not belong at a con, can always email them to support the decision not to have her. Judging from her message board, she is good at whipping up rightous frenzy, so there will no doubt be a lot of emails on the other side of the issue.
Thanks Eddy and Oddjob - still don't know who the heck she is but it was nice to put a face to the name.
Well, I could be completely wrong here, but she's had bit parts in various sci-fi genre shows and has done the convention circuit for quite some time, and somehow managed to parlay that experience to booking conventions for many of the Buffy and Angel actors. That's the vibe I've gotten from her.
Blwessels: You're a pagan and you're sister was a rather fanatical born-again christian? I imagine some lively discussions at those family get-togethers!;-)

And yeah your story was a good example. We should all be free to believe whatever, but it's just rude to constantly try to force-feed your views to other people. Well we've all met people like that at some point or another.

"it was in one of the smaller panel rooms not the big Q&A room and for the most part it cut down on her religous disscussion during her Q&A time. I have no problem with her doing a panel on her beliefs she attracts other people who feel the same as she does and everyone seems to enjoy the disscussion. Yes she is one to talk religion at the drop of a hat to anyone who will listen. This panel was actually started {btw} after some fans ask Vulkon if they would ask her if she would do it."

Hey if she's in her own room with people who actively want it, fine with me. I just imagined sitting in the audience, and hearing "That was Tony Head. Next Robia well tell you about god for an hour" and really, I ain't paying for that.

"People who profess to be ‘religious’ or ‘born again’, but then use words like “enemy” and “spiritual warfare” make me nervous. And spouting Bible verses instead of expressing one’s own opinions makes me think ‘brainwashed,’ not ‘spreading God’s love’."

Riiiiight there with ya.

"Maybe she’s just trying to save us all from ‘following’ that atheist Joss Whedon"

That's exactly the feeling I just can't shake. I'd really hate to think she's using her past association with the Buffyverse in order to save us from it.
JCB's site is on the cutting edge of being up to date. Her next con is in 2003!!

I don't remember seeing her at SD either, I just remember the blond chick between My Groo and George Hertzberg taking money.
OK, benefit of doubt erased. Now that I've read the comments here and examined her website and those message board comments, Robia definately seems to fit the preachy religious type. But a nice one, sure.
This whole Robia thing really highlights the interesting fact that hardcore Christians actually *believe* in a fantasy world -- in effect, they live in a fantasy world. Our culture has a sort of "double vision," as a friend of mine puts it, where the very markers of the "fantastic" (i.e., the most unreal) are identical to the markers of "scripture" (i.e., the most real). The fact is, if the Bible is the literal word of God, then any Christian *should* be against the creation, dissemination, and glorification of fantasy worlds that incorporate magic and witches and such, because the Bible makes no bones about God's position: thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

The reason why those I might be forgiven for terming "normal people" have such a problem with this attitude is that we consider such things as magic as being utterly unreal and therefore essentially harmless. But not so for Christians who believe in the Bible. For them, a child (for instance) looking up to Harry Potter (for example) is several orders of magnitude worse than a child looking up to, say, a gunslinging maniac.

Another way of illustrating the "double vision" is this: the fundamental cosmology represented in The Lord of the Rings is identical to the fundamental cosmology represented in the Bible. Both worlds are magical. Magic is real, and in the Biblical world God has definite opinions regarding it. Hardcore Christans *should*, if they really believe that stuff, burn Harry Potter books and speak out against shows like Buffy.

I find this issue endlessly fascinating, obviously...
The blond girl may have been a friend of theirs or a volunteer assigned by the Comic-Con staff. I vaguely remember her, but I remember seeing Fernando from Vulkon sitting next to Iyari.

As for JCB, she yelled at my friends on Friday and was completely sweet to them on Saturday. Go figure!
I've been to several of Robia's convention Q&As, and they've definitely had some religious content, but not to the exclusion of all else (sorta dependent upon what questions are asked). Nor has she used them as an opportunity to rip on the Jossverse. I found her to be very funny, bright and lively during the Q&As (she did one with Tony Head in Cleveland that was a lot of fun). I've seen a few guests that were complete Q&A duds -- unenthused, disengaged, seemingly disinterested in the questions that were posed. I appreciated how interactive and interested Robia was during those Q&As.

The stuff on her forum, well...that's a level of religious fervor that makes me uncomfortable. If that had been the tone of her Q&As, it would have been way too over-the-top for me and I would have been out the door in a heartbeat (a separate panel with a more religious tone doesn't bother me at all -- there are all kinds of optional panels at conventions, most of which I skip anyway).
"Hardcore Christans *should*, if they really believe that stuff, burn Harry Potter books and speak out against shows like Buffy.",

True, the christians whose views I dislike the least are the ones that are technically the most correct. The bible literally says that anyone who performs anything you might dub 'witchcraft' should be killed on the spot. Same for homosexuals. It's all in there. So while more liberal and modern christians are nicer people for me to talk to, I understand them less for technically they should believe all that.

But then most people tend to pick and choose to varying degrees what to focus on and what to ignore in the big old religious books. How many religious women wear a hat to church these days? Not many, but then it literally says a woman in a temple without some head covering is an affront to god. Not to mention how the sabbath is supposed to be on saturday, not sunday. Some people believe the reason Jesus hasn't returned yet is that most of the world's christians celebrate the sabbath on the wrong day. Well, there's a lot of variation of povs even within a single relgion.

Funny btw I remember my wife telling me she had coworkers who were rather strict christians and they indeed considered Harry Potter of the devil and even the smurfs. You know Papa Smurf was a sorcerer. So the smurfs are going to hell. But we all knew that:-)

"I've been to several of Robia's convention Q&As, and they've definitely had some religious content, but not to the exclusion of all else (sorta dependent upon what questions are asked). "

Well, from her words I wonder if she was planning on stepping that up a little? Maybe Vulkon wasn't really up for that? I don't know, just conjecture on my part.
So this all boils down to her having a row with her manager and her manager has dumped her. And since I don't know the ins and out of that I can't comment on that. But I would believe Robia when she says it had nothing to do with her 'god panel'.

The stuff what's posted on her forum well that's her and her posters' business. We have a policy at Whedonesque of if you can't say anything nice about another site, don't say anything at all. And believe me, that even applies to buffy.nu.

Religion, well I'm an atheist and I ve met fundamentalist Christians who were very nice and liberal Christians who weren't and vice versa. Personally, I'd rather religion wasn't discussed here.

Now I don't want to see anymore comments about Christians in this thread. If I do, they'll get deleted.

If you've posted a comment just after this comment and didn't read what I wrote then edit your post otherwise it will go.
But I would believe Robia when she says it had nothing to do with her 'god panel'.


I thought her point was that it DID have something to do with her chosen panel. "the enemy is trying to stop what's going on."
Original message edited and deleted because of Simon's request - Sorry EdDantes, I can't address your comments. I will stress that I said nothing negative. And Simon, I completely realize why you didn't want things to get too carried away but bummed because I just spent about 20 minutes typing up my thoughts and comments. But you at least saved everyone from my long winded response :-)


And just a small comment on the "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." That was not the original scripture. That's one of many various translated versions.

"In the original Hebrew manuscript, the author used the word m'khashepah to describe the person who should be killed. The word means a woman who uses spoken spells to harm others - e.g. causing their death or loss of property. Clearly "evil sorceress" or "woman who does evil magic" would be the most accurate phrases in today's English usage for this verse." Got this from http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_bibl2.htm

Wiccans who also call themselves witches do not do spells or prayers to harm anyone. That is against our beliefs. We believe that anything we do comes back to us three times over so why would you want to wish something bad on someone else and risk it returning to yourself three times over? The original meaning only refers to those who are deliberatly trying to do evil or harm. It doesn't refer to witches who are doing spells to heal or do good. It was only during the burning times that the wording was changed to fit what those in power wanted accomplished - the elimination of all witches.

[ edited by Simon on 2004-08-05 10:13 ]
Ugh - Simon I edited my post and I had the dreaded "November 30th" thing happen and now my post is on top.
You're the mod Simon. I still don't quite see all the supposedly offensive stuff, seemed like a friendly discussion to me..

And does this mean I'm also not allowed to respond to Blwessels and delavagus posts now? Because none of us seems to be offended at anything and this is just an interesting and nice talk to me.

Serious question though, what are we to do then with links like this? Because it was Robia herself that turned her appearance trouble into a religious issue, not us. And this thread is supposed to be a discussion about the link in question.

If you prefer me to write you privately let me know, I don't want to be the cause of any trouble, I would really like to know. I thought this was a nice thread.
I still don't quite see all the supposedly offensive stuff, seemed like a friendly discussion to me..

It can turn ugly easily, and some might already be offended by some of the things said. Some of it would have offended me when I was a Christian, before you turned me into a godless heathen! ; )
Don't worry, Simon, I'll pull out the riding crop when I get home and discipline him good and proper! :)
Ok, I just saw another post from Robia. She is confusing! She's talking about how the enemy is against her and trying to stop her from spreading her message, but then she says she got fired because she is difficult to work with. I wonder if the difficulties have anything to do with the religion thing. Because if not, I'm not sure where she gets this 'conspiracy' theory about the 'enemy'.
"And Simon, I completely realize why you didn't want things to get too carried away but bummed because I just spent about 20 minutes typing up my thoughts and comments. But you at least saved everyone from my long winded response :-)"

Read it and copied it, Blwessels hehe. Yours too Delavagus. Saved them oi did...;-)

"Some of it would have offended me when I was a Christian, before you turned me into a godless heathen! ; )"

I was a christian once too dear, as you know. And you were quite on your heathen way all by yer lonesome...

" I wonder if the difficulties have anything to do with the religion thing. Because if not, I'm not sure where she gets this 'conspiracy' theory about the 'enemy'. "

Ya know I'm really gonna stop trying to figure her out. As long as I won't be forced to listen to what I don't wanna listen to.

Don't worry, Simon, I'll pull out the riding crop when I get home and discipline him good and proper! :)

Hey, as long as you wear *those* boots while you do it......;-)
Hey, as long as you wear *those* boots while you do it......;-)

Okaaaay, we've delved way into TMI!!
Now if y'all were Jews like my family, we could continue the "friendly chat" . . . ;)

(Sorry Simon, couldn't resist - I'm guessing you probably wanted us to read "comments about [religions of various stripes]" for "Christians")
When Robia says: "enemy" she means Satan. She means that Satan is the enemy that is trying to stop her God panel.
That's what's confusing. It seems to read that the 'enemy' is Julie Caitlin Brown.

If you go to the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops website, I was surprised to find that even THEY find Harry Potters films imaginative and well-adapted from the books (they have a movie review section). I wonder how they would review the Jossverse. If the Catholic bishops find the portrayal of sorcery to be OK for their religion, why can't Robia?
When Robia says: "enemy" she means Satan. She means that Satan is the enemy that is trying to stop her God panel.
That's what's confusing. It seems to read that the 'enemy' is Julie Caitlin Brown.


No, I understand that she means Satan. But I also wonder if she thinks that Satan is working through JCB to keep her from spreading her message, which is what it looks like from here.
Oh, I see. Oh brother!
"Read it and copied it, Blwessels hehe." - EdDantes

You must've copied it the second I posted because I then saw Simon's post and went and got rid of most of mine. Most of what I wrote was in response to your comments so I'm glad you got to read it!
When Robia says: "enemy" she means Satan. She means that Satan is the enemy that is trying to stop her God panel.
That's what's confusing. It seems to read that the 'enemy' is Julie Caitlin Brown.


Then Julie Caitlin Brown is The First Evil?
JCB as the First Evil! Maybe she can take the form of Jenny Calendar and replace Robia at the con and skip the God panel. All part of her diabolical plan?

I'm in agreement with most of you. I think Robia is choosing the wrong format to try to convert people. It's likely to have quite the opposite effect. As someone stated above: there's a time and place...
Zealots always turn people off. Unless there's other zealots.Then there's a lot of fist raising and "Yeah, amen!"s.

Man, how weird that she doesn't realize how inappropriate that would be. Now I've got the big yuck on her.

Makes me kinda sad because I always harbored a nugget of resentment towards Joss for killing Jenny. Now I don't really care. I know, Robia isn't Jenny (though she played one on tv)... it just bugs me. *shrugs*
Y'all are missing the big picture here, she keeps mis-spelling Vulkon - how does the say go "I don't care what you write as long as you spell my name right." :)
Y'all are missing the big picture here, she keeps mis-spelling Vulkon - how does the say go "I don't care what you write as long as you spell my name right." :)

Like some folks always spell my handle as Rouge instead of Rogue? ; )

And also, I don't like Robia cuz she doesn't use capitals. That bugs me for some reason...... She's not e.e. cummings or something..... :) And she's got stupid hair.


Ok, I take that back, she's got glorious hair from God of which I am jealous. And a face to match. Bitch.......... ; )
"You must've copied it the second I posted because I then saw Simon's post and went and got rid of most of mine. Most of what I wrote was in response to your comments so I'm glad you got to read it!"

Ah yes I noticed it was gone rather quickly, but I went back and the page with your comments was still in my history!

Moments like that make me feel like James Bond... Yes I am sad.

Zealots always turn people off. Unless there's other zealots.Then there's a lot of fist raising and "Yeah, amen!"s.

Man, how weird that she doesn't realize how inappropriate that would be. Now I've got the big yuck on her.

Makes me kinda sad because I always harbored a nugget of resentment towards Joss for killing Jenny. Now I don't really care. I know, Robia isn't Jenny (though she played one on tv)... it just bugs me. *shrugs*


I kind of know what you mean. I always try to separate people's work from their personal beliefs but with singers or actors it's kind of hard sometimes. My fault, I know, for example if I hear a singer say something truly vile (vile to me that is) I will always think of that when I hear his songs. I really gotta quit doing that somehow....
Looks like her plan may be back firing on her with the email onslaught to Vulkon, cause the promoter posted the following on Vulkon site ...

"Please stop petitioning for Robia. I am getting numerous emails about it (as she asked you to send me emails on her behalf on her website) and frankly they are beginning to get annoying. It is a done deal and she will not be at Oakland, she has been replaced. I am not at liberty to discuss details, just accept that she will not be at Oakland. As far as future events, only time will tell if she will be invited to another. This is purely a business matter and nothing personal against Robia.

Fernando"

It's kind of hard to not distance Robia from the character of Jenny because all of this is happening revolving around a convention for the fans. She's mixing her personal life with her professional life and making comments that she wouldn't have wanted to play certain scenes now knowing what she knows. I just think some of the comments she should've kept to herself - like how she now feels about playing the First Evil. That will most likely taint my enjoyment of the Amends episode now.
I see Brigid Conley Walsh (Virginia Bryce on Angel) and Lee Stringer (a special effects artist from Angel) have been added to the main page. Robia's replacements, I suppose? Changes seem to coming in and out daily as of late. I guess we'll just have to stay tuned to find out....
Okay, Simon deleted this post while I was editing it and it ended up in the past -- posted on Nov. 30. Weird. I just got rid of it altogether. No philosophical discussions on Whedonesque, I guess. :-( That's all right -- they're boring anyway.

[ edited by Simon on 2004-08-05 10:14 ]
Wow sounds like her little plan backfired indeed. The guy just sounds annoyed now, and it probably just made her more 'troublesome'. Well no company likes to be forced into stuff. Just hacks them off.

"It's kind of hard to not distance Robia from the character of Jenny because all of this is happening revolving around a convention for the fans. She's mixing her personal life with her professional life and making comments that she wouldn't have wanted to play certain scenes now knowing what she knows. "

Good point, it's not just that her personal beliefs happen to be far removed from mine, she's the one to mix it up with her work. And it does taint watching the eps a bit. We've been rewatching S2 recently and often during the Jenny scenes I get that little sting that Robia herself now probably sees Jenny as some type of sinful with or something. Sometimes you just don't wanna know....

I see Brigid Conley Walsh (Virginia Bryce on Angel) and Lee Stringer (a special effects artist from Angel) have been added to the main page. Robia's replacements, I suppose? Changes seem to coming in and out daily as of late. I guess we'll just have to stay tuned to find out.... "

Pff getting dizzy! They should put a revolving door on this lineup! And a special effects artist....i dunno. Doesn't set my blood on fire. Maybe if he's really witty and funny and filled with humorous anecdotes about the actors, but behind-the-scenes people aren't necessarily known for their ability to entertain crowds.

And Virgina? Wesley's redheaded girlfriend? Well, at least she's hot....
Man - she can talk about whatever she likes, and if you don't wanna listen, then you can leave. Not that its much a point now...

At Coachella, every single artist was bleating on between songs about how people should vote and who for... appropriate for a rock concert - no - but there ya go. Where there is a soapbox, people will stand upon it and speak on whatever they darn well like. Freedom of speech, and so on. As long as they don't show their nipples during Superbowl.
Blwessels and devalagus sorry you had to change your posts. I know you guys put a lot of effort into what you say. Rogue Slayer summed up what I was thinking well apart from the riding crop *grins* and EdDantes and blwessels raise a point that I was thinking that it does taint the episodes. Or at least the potential to taint some episodes.

It's all very unpleasant *sighs*. Jenny was one of my favourite characters on Buffy. I know we should separate the actors from the roles they play but still sometimes it's hard too.
"Man - she can talk about whatever she likes, and if you don't wanna listen, then you can leave."

Fair enough. The thing I find sad, and Ed touched on this already, is that as a fan, when a celebrity exercises his/her right to speak his/her mind on a topic such as religion or politics, and I happen to disagree, it reduces my enjoyment factor. Recent examples of celebrities speaking out - Linda Rondstadt's pro-Michael Moore comments at her Vegas concert recently. The Dixie Chicks well-documented comments at their concert. Here, Robia's comments. It's an absolute guarantee that not everyone in an audience of more than, oh, 1 person, is going to agree with what's being said. This means, for those who disagree, and paid money to see said celebrity, that the experience has been tainted. I don't spend money on a concert, or a Con, to listen to someone on their soapbox. I spend my money for fun and enjoyment. And I completely agree with Ed - I then have difficulty separating the celebrity from the comments I disagreed with in the future.

Interestingly, today I was watching two of the Dixie Chicks, Dave Matthews, and someone else I didn't recognize, on The Today Show. They were talking about a fundraising concert for the Democratic Party in swing states. When asked if they were worried about backlash, they talked about it being their right to speak their mind (absolutely), having a duty as celebrities (uh, okay - entitled to their opinion), and then...that they should not have to worry about a career-affecting backlash just for expressing their opinions because this is a "free country". That's where I have to disagree. I am reminded of the "just because you can doesn't mean you should" adage.

Opinions vary. Actions have consequences. And some fans, no matter what is said, are not going to agree. If a celebrity wishes to exercise their right to express their opinion, fans cannot be expected to not react when they disagree.

Robia's taking a risk here. It seems to have already backfired. Again, actions and speech have consequences. She seems extreme to me. Her comments have affected my perception of her and I'm just glad that I know to avoid her interviews and appearances in the future so she can continue to speak her mind, and I can avoid hearing any of it, thus ensuring my continued enjoyment of her scenes in my many and repeated Buffy marathons.
In case anyone is wondering about the "edited by Simon" on a couple of posts, it was me trying to put Blwessels and devalagus in the right place. Hopefully they are were they should be.

And I don't know if anyone has seen this but Robia has updated:

"wow, there have been some pretty interesting posts on various fan sites regarding this. so since this post will probably make it up somewhere let me just add:

i don't hate JCB. we are not working together anymore. i only wish that she had just decided to stop working together and not try to interfere with my relationships with promoters.

also, i am not trying to preach to people or force my beliefs on anyone. during q and a's i have been asked questions about my personal life. i have shared about my Christianity in my answers because my faith is a big part of my personal life.

a number of people were interested in knowing more. they went to the promoters and requested that i have a separate talk just on my faith. the promoters then asked me to do that which i did. anyone interested could attend. those not interested did not.

it's as simple as that.

none of this is that big of a deal. i will work with someone else. i will do more cons. i am disappointed that i won't be going to Oakland, but there will be more cons. i really like the fans and especially love the group of people that i have gotten to know better through my site.
"
"Rogue Slayer summed up what I was thinking well apart from the riding crop *grins*

Yeah I'm afraid only my wife gets to do that. Well.....Eliza in the same boots would be hard to refuse.....;-)

"EdDantes and blwessels raise a point that I was thinking that it does taint the episodes. Or at least the potential to taint some episodes.
It's all very unpleasant *sighs*. Jenny was one of my favourite characters on Buffy. I know we should separate the actors from the roles they play but still sometimes it's hard too."


Yeah I know. Like I said, as much as we like to read about actors we like, sometimes you find out stuff you personally didn't care to know all that much.

"Linda Rondstadt's pro-Michael Moore comments at her Vegas concert recently. The Dixie Chicks well-documented comments at their concert. Here, Robia's comments. It's an absolute guarantee that not everyone in an audience of more than, oh, 1 person, is going to agree with what's being said."

Yeah, except I'd like to point out that the Dixie Chicks thing started out originally with a remark made in an interview, not at a concert. Also there's a bit more freedom if it's your own concert. If Robia spoke at a convention entirely devoted to herself, I'd have far less of a problem as well.

When asked if they were worried about backlash, they talked about it being their right to speak their mind (absolutely), having a duty as celebrities (uh, okay - entitled to their opinion), and then...that they should not have to worry about a career-affecting backlash just for expressing their opinions because this is a "free country". That's where I have to disagree. I am reminded of the "just because you can doesn't mean you should" adage.

I understand what you mean, and while I too am not sure it's a 'duty' so much as a personal choice, I do think the backlashes are ridiculous lately. Scenes like public destruction of Dixie Chicks cds in the streets are just unspeakably ugly to me. It would be like me burning Robia's posters in the streets just for her being outspoken about things I disagree with.

People are getting fired for speaking out against Bush. People who were willing to show Michael Moore's movie got death threats. You can expect people to disagree with you but you shouldn't have to be afraid to speak your opinion in this country. In spite of freedom of law, in this way people still have to be afraid of disagreeing with the government. Not really how it should be.

I think it's silly to think we should listen to celebs just because they're famous, but the recent rising tendency is just as ridiculous; that because of their celebrity they have less right to speak somehow. They should know when to do it, but they don't deserve to have their careers be jeopardized.

One of the good things they do I think is trying to get more people to vote. Whoever wins, everyone that can, should vote. If only 50% votes, and the winner gets barely 40% of THAT, then the guy who runs the country (Dem or Rep) only has 20% of the population that actively wanted him in that position. Not really right.

And if people like Danny Strong, Adam Bush or Eliz Dushku want to work in campaigns, then it's their right as much as any others.

But of course most of us don't mind if we happen to agree with the particular POV. Most celebs are liberal and many right wing people complain that they should mind their own business. Unless of course, when right wing celebs like Kelsey Grammar, Schwarzenegger, Dennis Miller or Bruce Willis speak up. Then they applaud them. And in all fairness if I agreed with Robia's beliefs I wouldn't complain either even though the principle is unchanged. Nature of the beast.
"none of this is that big of a deal."

Could have fooled me, seeing how she was the one trying to start a fan campaign/petition.....

Interesting how she keeps track of the boards apparently.
Well this is just my own opinion but I think she posted in haste and perhaps in anger as well and got carried away. But anyway what is done is done and unfortunately people will see her first post and perhaps get a misimpression of her. If they saw her last post, it may change their minds.
"wow, there have been some pretty interesting posts on various fan sites regarding this. so since this post will probably make it up somewhere let me just add:"

I swear it wasn't me. :)

Although I know I have spoke with some of the celebrities and mentioned this site as a source to reach fans as well as find out things they may not be aware of. Also I know there are a few people who know Robia who read this board on occassion so it would not surprise me in the least if she did read anything posted here about her.
Well we do have one Mutant Enemy actor signed up as a poster here, I'm pleased to say.
I personally think that unless someone has seen her in person at one of the conventions and can attest one way or the other that she is "forcing her beliefs" then we shouldn't be ripping on her.

I will just say this. She is a new Christian and they tend to be very "on fire" at first.

Stop the ridiculing...please. If people want to be treated by others with an open mind...then the least we can do is to treat others the same way.
If I want to hear celebrities rant about politics, I watch "Real Time with Bill Maher". I enjoy hearing both sides (hopefully more than 2 sides), whether I agree or not. But, I've chosen to hear them.
I don't care to hear it otherwise, whether I agree with them or not. Yes, they have a right to speak, of course, but I agree that it becomes hard to separate their words from their art. Somehow, I don't have a problem with this if I've CHOSEN to hear what they have to say. I guess I don't feel like it's being said AT me.

I think that when & how you make your point is half the battle of getting it across.

If some of Robia's fans enjoy her God panel, that's great for them. But, her first couple of posts on her site sounded as though she's on a mission, not as though "none of this is that big a deal". To me, it's akin to sleeping on a Sunday morning only to be awakened by the doorbell ringing (and ringing) to find Jehovah's Witness' believers preaching at you. NOT the right time or place.
I'm a Christian...proud to say it. I'm one of "those" right-wingers...proud to say it. I'm a total BuffyVerse fanatic...proud to say it. It really can exist---all in one person!!! Simon????....who is the actor that posts on this board???
Jonathan M Woodward has posted here twice.
ahhh...Knox...cool...thanx simon!
I will just say this. She is a new Christian and they tend to be very "on fire" at first.


I don't know what you consider 'new', but she's beena a born again since season 3, which would be about 6 or 7 years now.

Yeah, except I'd like to point out that the Dixie Chicks thing started out originally with a remark made in an interview, not at a concert.

Are you sure about that, Ed? From what I recall it was from a concert in London where Natalie said: "Just so you know, we're ashamed the president of the United States is from Texas." I think that's where it originated. At least, that's what all the broo-haha was over. They may have said something in an interview earlier, but it didn't nearly get the huge backlash the concert comment got.

I'm a Christian...proud to say it. I'm one of "those" right-wingers...proud to say it. I'm a total BuffyVerse fanatic...proud to say it. It really can exist---all in one person!!!

I guess you're one of the few folks that can enjoy a show and put aside all the concepts that go against your belief system. You can see past the homosexual stories, demon/witch glorification, blatant atheism, rampant pre-marital sex, etc and see that it's just a good show.
...pretty much Rogue Slayer...it's just a show/fantasy...I'm not living in it...just watching it...and enjoying it with much fervor! Although there are those dreams I keep having about Mr. Boreanaz...ummm...oops!...don't want to go there!!! HEHEHE!
Perhaps I was dreaming when I hinted it to tone it down on the whole Christian debate on this thread.

Heck, this is turned into a train crash of a thread, lets move on.

Now US politics on the other hand, a much less divisive topic :P.
Simon...sorry...I just wanted to comment that I am a Christian poster...that I can read the posts as opinions...and not get upset by them...apologize...
Nah no worries, and I'm glad you didn't get upset.

But I will say one thing, for some bizarre reason this has inspired me to think about a Whedonesque get together. Other sites do it, no reason why we shouldn't.
I agree that there is a time and place for everything but in defense of the group of musicians who are promoting the Democratic party, they are openly stating all this so anyone going to the concert knows what they are getting into. The Linda Ronstadt thing wasn't the same. She just started voicing her views on the audience. If the audience was aware that politics would be part of the theme that would've been okay but they didn't.

And I think Simon is totally right about what happened. Robia was upset about getting booted and posted in anger and haste and when one does that they tend to go a bit overboard. I think she is regretting it and she does seem to care what her fans feel about her. It makes me feel a bit better about all this that she is making the effort to make things right. But I still think seeing some of her scenes now may not be the same knowing how she feels.

Coll - I hope you didn't feel that Christianity was being attacked (or any other Christian posters). I know lots of Christians who are very open minded and also love Buffy and get why it's a great show. It's unfortunate that when some extreme Christians or extreme Christian groups make comments that all Christians get lumped together. But that happens in all religions as well. For an example, people are murdered everyday and most likely by people of every religious group (take the recent Mormon husband killing his pregnant wife) but if a Wiccan does something like that it's headlines all over the place that a Witch did something bad because it's newsworthy and the emphasis is put on the religion. In the case of the Mormon guy, it's mentioned that he's a Mormon but it's not the emphasis of the story. Same thing every time some extreme Church group starts burning Harry Potter books. The emphasis of the headlines are always Christians burning these books but they don't go on to say that many Christian churches praise the Harry Potter books.
"Jonathan M Woodward has posted here twice." - Simon

That's so cool!!! I wonder if there are a lot of Mutant Enemy actors who lurk and read everything we say?
It would be nice if they did. It would appeal to my hidden geeky self.

Tell you one thing, if Joss ever posts here I would die a happy man.
Rogue Slayer-- I think you are right about Natalie Maines’s comment about the president. I also remember reading that she got death threats from people who were so busy waving the stars and stripes they didn’t take time out to read the Constitution.


"But I will say one thing, for some bizarre reason this has inspired me to think about a Whedonesque get together. Other sites do it, no reason why we shouldn't."

Could we discuss religion and politics? On second thought... ; )
But I will say one thing, for some bizarre reason this has inspired me to think about a Whedonesque get together. Other sites do it, no reason why we shouldn't.

YES!!! Minus, of course, that pesky problem of thousands of miles between most of us.

Drinks all around on Simon! ;)
Just checking in from an internet cafe in Marseille - I'm on holidays - just wanted to say I think this is a great thread and kudos to all for keeping it on the straight and narrow.

OT: I was in a bar an hour ago and the Angel soundtrack was being played on the jukebox. Nice surprise.
Well, the discussion of ridiculous, ugly, vicious attacks against celebrities speaking their minds, such as Ed pointed out, is something I should have clarified in my original post. I should have added that "fans cannot be expected to not react (in an adult, civilized, respectful manner) when they disagree. The kind of backlash that reached the point of the burning of Dixie Chicks CDs is ridiculous and far above and beyond any "fan reaction" I was speaking about. I think an individual's decision to toss their album or not buy a new one is sufficient.

"there's a bit more freedom speaking at your own concert" - Ed

I suppose. But again the risk is there of alienating some fans who will disagree and/or just don't want to hear about politics when they've paid money to be entertained by music. Hey, this new concert circuit in swing states is a whole different thing. Fans know what their getting going in. I certainly don't think celebrities have less of a right to speak their opinion, but I still do believe that it will cause some fans who disagree with what is being said to not buy any more albums, see new movies, etc. Because the one thing that (Ed an I) do seem to agree on, is that an individual fan can't help being affected.

"People are getting fired for speaking out again Bush." Such as Whoopi Goldberg? Look, IMO, had she made those comments about Clinton or Bush, or any other President, I would have been equally disgusted just because I believe you can disagree with the President, speak out very clearly, and not be so disrespectful to the Office. And no, you absolutely shouldn't be afraid to speak your opinion in this country, no matter what side of the aisle you happen to wander around in. Look, for the purposes of this discussion and to understand my motivation, I label myself a liberal republican or a conservative democrat. I'm not interested in organized religion, pro-choice, support gay rights, and my reasons for wishing to stay separated from the farther left aren't necessary for this discussion, so I won't bore you.

Michael Moore has talked openly about his "war room" of political operatives and lawyers and when promoting the film went on numerous shows saying that "any attempt to libel me will be met by force.", Because, "The most important thing we have is truth on our side." He has also described the film as an op-ed piece. So, people are threatened with libel suits over discussion of an op-ed piece. Hmm.

"In all fairness, if I agreed with Robia, I would not complain either. Nature of the beast." -Ed

Agreed. Unfortunately, the world just isn't as civilized as we Whedonsquers are in the manner in which they express their opinion/disagreement. Simon - "World Moderator". It could work.
I seem to be pretty fortunate in being able to separate an artist from the music/films they make and so Robia's comments don't effect my enjoyment of her scenes in Buffy. It's funny, but if someone expresses a political/religious viewpoint contrary to my own I'm quite happy to think that everyone is entitled to their opinion and let it go. However if someone comes along and says that, for instance, Buffy* is crap then I feel almost compelled to argue with them and attempt to convince them that they're wrong :)
As for the Dixie Chicks situation, I go to a lot of rock concerts and just about every US band that I've seen in the past few years has apologised for their president - it's become a running joke between me and my friends as to how long it will take for them to mention it. Of course, since most of these bands are "alternative" (ie don't sell millions of albums and appeal to young children, conservative people) then there's no fuss made - even though plenty of them have said somewhat worse things then the Dixie Chicks :)

*replace with any tv show/film/band that I like
I guess it's degrees for me. It's not that the minute I hear a celebrity say something I don't like, I react by boycotting anything they do in the future. I think it's the moment I feel talked *at* as opposed to talked *to*. So, for me, seeing a celebrity express their political views in an interview, on a news channel, or some other place that seems appropriate, doesn't bother me (excepting the, in my opinion, extreme example of Jeaneane (sp) Garofalo, who I have watched be downright rude and insulting too many times). But, I do have to be honest and say if I hear a celebrity, over and over, and then am in an audience just wanting to have a good time and hear it again, I start to feel talked *at*. And it ends up tainting future experiences.
A get-together? Sounds great, Simon. Where? I vote for Phoenix Arizona. Yeah, that's right. Only a 1.5 hour drive for me. Let the Eurofans come to US for once! JUST KIDDING!

Seriously, You mods should come up with a list of possibles and have us vote! Jeez that would be so much fun, hanging out with all you fabulous Whedonesquers!
I would love a get-together but I could only make it if it was in the Pacific NW. I don't think there are a lot of PNW-ers on the board though.
Well there's nothing to stop people from doing regional get togethers :). You could chat about on the Flickr message board. I'll give some proper thought to a biiiiiggggggggg get together.

Simon - "World Moderator". It could work.

Damn right.
Just got a great visual of hanging out at a local pub with Rogue and Ed and blwessels and RandyGiles and Simon and esg and Oddjob and Alyson(and everyone else I didn't mention). We'd take up a huge table and be all raucous. (But elegantly so!)


Hey, whatever happened to ZachsMind? Where is that loveable curmudgeon?
I'm currently saving money for the possible convention that might pop up in my area in the next year. I don't see why I couldn't put a Whedonesque get-together in that category. I just doubt I can save enough money to travel very far. Maybe I should open a paypal account and ask for donations. Heh.
Well I'm certainly up for a get-together of any type.

And I know I've said this before, but if anyone in So. Cal. is going to the Common Rotation performance in Hollywood next Saturday or the Metro Entertainment signing in Santa Barbara on the 21st, don't be afraid to say hi to the photographer (hint: that'll be me). :)
I vote for the get-together. I mostly lurk but I'd come out for that.
As long as it was in the east. We envy you California types. Of course we also envy the east coast ones who are rich enough to head out to the west coast whenever something good is on. Sigh.
I'd love to attend a Whedonesque thang! Regional get-togethers sound like a great idea, especially for those of us who live on the other side of the country, like Lioness mentioned. We never get to have any fun. :(
That pesky work-related stuff keeps getting in my way when I'm trying to enjoy this lengthy but fascinating thread. (feels eyes on her back - quick! minimize!! *think* GO AWAY!)

Whedonesque is so addictive.

Anyway, electricspacegirl, here's another PNW'er who wishes she could go to a Jossversecon or something sometime.
We could try linking Whedonesque get-togethers to conventions. You know, a time and place for con-going Whedonesquers to meet up. (That is, assuming other folks haven't already done this. Anyone got a meet-up planned for the Oakland Con?)
Lets make "getting together for Serenity" party plans - hopefully they'll be a few of us in each geographical area. Mmm. Or we could just show up at the premiere wearing blue rubber gloves....
I'd proudly wear a Whedonesque tee shirt (plus sized, please) and sport a decal or static (honk if you love Joss?) on my car.

And sure enough, now that there's no one breathing down my neck here at work, this thread is played out. *sigh* Story of my life...
m'cookies, I'm in Portland. Are you anywhere close to me? I know there are Firefly Shindigs being organized in my area, and in Seattle (I think). Let me know if you want more information.

I love your name, btw!
Wow - a whedonesque get together. That idea is so exciting it catapulted me out of permanent lurkdom and into my very first post! I'm on the east coast too BTW.
She wants to reach people who want to be reached. She holds a panel, and they tell you what it's about. If you want to hear her talk about God you go. If you don't, you don't go. Whats the problem? Yes she mentions her beliefs in her Q&A sessions, but it's a huge part of her life, that would be like expecting Nicky Brendon not to mention his wife. My experience at Clevland was that she was one of the most fun people there. She danced with fans, she talked to fans, she was very friendly. I didn't want to hear about God, so I didn't go to her panel. Whats the problem with that?

And for the record, she did say that she liked the overall message of Buffy. Good vs, Evil. Sacrafic being necessary to fight evil. She LIKES BUFFY. She doesn't regret her role as Jenny Calendar, she just admits that she would not take that role today. There are things in my life that I wouldn't do today, but I don't regret them. They helped make me who I am today.

Why does everyone have to give one of the nicest people I met at a convention such a bad rap just because she's strong rooted in her beliefs? I didn't feel that they were forced on me. She was willing to talk about them if you were interested, and if you weren't, that was fine. So why not have her there, for the people that want to talk about it?
Anyone near Northern New Jersey?
"why does everyone have to give one of the nicest people I met at a convention such a bad rap just because she's strong rooted in her beliefs?" - Joyfulgirl9682

I don't think we've given her a "bad rap". We're a pretty well-behaved group (at least when posting comments to this board). This has been what I would consider a very balanced and appropriate thread. And the length of this thread is a testament to our interest in Robia by way of the character she played on Buffy. I've never met Robia, as I've said earlier in the thread. I'm thrilled to hear that others have had a very positive experience when they have met Robia. However, the organizers of this Con, it would seem, have been emailed, at Robia's request, by fans. As organizers, they have every right to make the decision to not have her appear.
There's a very good chance that there was a lot of negative feedback to the convention about her preaching to everyone... It is also very likely that she was asked not to do that and she refused and that could be what brought this about - her being uninvited that is.

OK. You don't know the whole story, you don't know what happened between her and JCB, so please don't speculate because all thats going to do is spread untrue rumours. The panel on God had absolutely NOTHING to do with why JCB fired her as a client or why she was pulled from the convention. Quite frankly, Julie and Robia argued over something I'm not going to disclose and so she exercised her power with Vulkon to have Robia pulled. According to Vulkon management it was Julie's "last official act" as Robia's manager but considering JCB represents so much of the Buffyverse I doubt Vulkon would have kept Robia if Julie didn't want her there, regardless of her status with Robia.
I love the idea of a regional get together.

Creepy6 - I am in New Jersey, Keyport actually.

I'll be a way the next week but we should try to get NJ posters together. Maybe NJ/PA/NY can all meet somewhere, that would be great fun!
Passion: I agree...a regional get together would be great!

I've been a lurker until a couple of days ago. Actually, I tried to join numerous times so I could post, but the site wasn't accepting new members. I finally got lucky and was able to join.

Although I've only been able to read the posts until very recently, I've become quite familiar with the tone of the board and it's witty and intelligent members.

NJ/PA/NY would be great. Maybe CT, too? I'm in Bergen County. What county is Keyport? What do you think of a potential meeting in Bucks County, PA? It's a haunting, beautiful area and it's where "Signs" was filmed!
I guess we should try to round up a few more members first!
"There's a very good chance that there was a lot of negative feedback to the convention about her preaching to everyone... It is also very likely that she was asked not to do that and she refused and that could be what brought this about - her being uninvited that is." - Blwessels

"OK. You don't know the whole story, you don't know what happened between her and JCB, so please don't speculate because all thats going to do is spread untrue rumours. The panel on God had absolutely NOTHING to do with why JCB fired her as a client or why she was pulled from the convention. Quite frankly, Julie and Robia argued over something I'm not going to disclose and so she exercised her power with Vulkon to have Robia pulled. According to Vulkon management it was Julie's "last official act" as Robia's manager but considering JCB represents so much of the Buffyverse I doubt Vulkon would have kept Robia if Julie didn't want her there, regardless of her status with Robia." Spring

Sorry if you were personally offended by my speculating - but this is a discussion board where people, oh my God, state their opinions!! I kind of feel that your above statement could start a lot of speculation as to just what they argued about.

And considering there has been over 100 posts on this thread and you are the only one who commented on my one little speculation, I hardly doubt there will be a wild fire across the internet saying that is 100% what happened. It was clear that it was a speculation, I never tried to pass it off as fact.

In case you don't realize this because you seem to be good friends with Robia to have such insight in to what really went on, but she's a celebrity, who has put herself out there, in the public limelight. She opened the opportunity for this thread by making a very public plea for people to back her position and it was a very religious message she gave. So I don't think there is anything wrong with people discussing that message and wondering how it came about. That's what fans do - if fans didn't do stuff like that there wouldn't be any posting boards to do it on.
spring as much as I appreciate your concerns over this matter, only Whedonesque admins tell posters what to do here (if it absolutely needed that is).

And in other news there's an update on the Robia situation at HellmouthCentral.com who were championing her cause over the last couple of days..
"I agree that posting that plea to the fans was a hasty, impetuous choice and that she should have left religion out of it and she opened herself up to backlash." - Spring -

Your initial reaction to your own friends posting was negative so why are you jumping all over others for reacting the same way? Your own words indicate you expected a backlash from her comments.

I find it admirable that you would then want to defend your friend (and if you've read all my posts you would realize I have nothing personal against Robia and felt she probably posted in haste). My beef with you was how you went about it - your tone was in a very negative, put down manner. You could've phrased things in a much nicer manner than you did and still gotten your point across. I don't go out of my way to attack others when I disagree with them but I won't sit back and let someone unfairly attack me either.
creepy6, I'm in Philly and - sadly - commute all the way to Bergen County twice a week. Bucks County sounds like fun. We should try and get this together during Sep before the weather gets too cold.
WWBD: That's quite a commute!
It would be great if we could pull it off.
This thread is getting buried...I'm not sure where to continue discussing this issue of a regional meeting.
Any ideas?
(By the way, October would be better for me, as I'm having major surgery on Sep 3, and will be recovering for at least 5 to 6 weeks -- or a bit more. Maybe around Halloween? That would be ideal!)

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