Poor girl. She'll never live this down.

Willowy | August 07, 21:17 CET

I'm amazed she got out of the room alive....

Joss himself always says he get's people telling him how much they love the show, are the biggest fan ever, but then say something that shows they haven't a clue ( "What? Angels a VAMPIRE? I thought he was a good guy?") but it's easy for us to forget that there are millions of people out there who can watch and enjoy a show without having a clue who the writers or directors are. I love Scrubs but couldn't name the head writer. Ditto Frasier or Friends.

zz9 | August 07, 21:49 CET

Okay, i went to the actual Con, but didnt hear the girl very well, what she was saying and why everyone was making a big deal in the audience. And now i see. I mean, she didn't even just screw up Joss, she screwed up the last name too! Damn!

As far as SMG goes, as many here have thankfully reported, she was rather cute about it and laughing the whole time with the various corrections(Fantastic X-men?!), especially since the audience reacted so strongly. Glad i have the clip, though, so i have a better idea of things.

syd | August 07, 22:00 CET

Yeah, this clears up a whole lot. I was beginning to think that maybe SMG was being a bit too hard on the woman from what I had seen on the net but seeing that for myself clears it all up for me. Thanks for this! :)

Christopher | August 07, 22:12 CET

I wonder if it was a case of major nerves or if the girl really isn't familiar with Joss and his work or both. Maybe she was persuaded to ask a question for someone else who didn't have the courage to speak in front of a large crowd. I feel for her but yes, I didn't get the impression that Sarah was being mean to her at all.

Silent Night | August 07, 22:48 CET

I was beginning to think that maybe SMG was being a bit too hard on the woman

I love SMG's sense of humor, but reading it and hearing it can certainly be two different experiences.

Ubqtous | August 07, 23:01 CET

but reading it and hearing it can certainly be two different experiences

Definitely.

Christopher | August 07, 23:27 CET

I can't view it...drats! Is anyone else having trouble??

Coll | August 08, 01:21 CET

Yes Coll, I did. My Mac can't read it. So I put it on my son's PC and it worked. It's a windows media file. If you can save it as an avi then do that and it should work.

Willowy | August 08, 01:38 CET

I also use a Mac and I discovered that the freeware VLC Media Player can read Windows Media Files and a number of other formats & media files that Quicktime may have trouble with (it's very useful!). Also, Windows Media Player is available for Mac OS X too :)

Natashia | August 08, 02:20 CET

There's also MPlayer for OS X
http://mplayerosx.sourceforge.net/
I've never used the OS X version, but the original Linux version is unbelievably good.



[ edited by Simon on 2004-08-09 00:06 ]

KernelM | August 08, 02:32 CET

Thanks NatashaLea, I'll look for that. I use X so it should already be here somewhere.

Willowy | August 08, 03:30 CET

Well as I never get tired of pointing out, I was there and this vid gives a good impression. And the girl clearly really didn't know Joss name, saying 'Weeldon' first and after Sarah corrects her still trying for a 'Wildon'.

"Joss himself always says he get's people telling him how much they love the show, are the biggest fan ever, but then say something that shows they haven't a clue ( "What? Angels a VAMPIRE? I thought he was a good guy?") but it's easy for us to forget that there are millions of people out there who can watch and enjoy a show without having a clue who the writers or directors are. I love Scrubs but couldn't name the head writer. Ditto Frasier or Friends."

All theories aside, when you get up there, the least you can do when claiming to be a fan is get the names straight. I wouldn't know the writer's name of Scrubs either but then I wouldn't get up at a Scrubs panel claiming to be a big fan only to then belt out wrong names.

And really if you don't even know Angel's a vampire you have no business talking to Joss, claiming to be a big fan. I still know that Scrubs is about young doctors in training, for example. "Gee I thought it was about cops" would be the equivalent of that. And it would be just as annoying and stupid.

Sarah handled it well, keeping it good natured, but I'm still glad she kinda dotted the 'i's there. She's got my type of humor so I don't mind the sarcastic edge. Especially loved the "this isn't going well" when the girl still said it wrong after Sarah corrected her.

if you go up there claiming high-fandom, at the very least, know the names. Don't think anyone at an X-File panel would be crazy to hear someone talk about 'Pris Barter' or something either.

And like I said before, I liked how Sarah came to Joss' 'defense' instantly.

EdDantes | August 08, 04:15 CET

Yep, this clip confirmed my initial impression, which that it wasn't a case of nerves - at least, the woman doesn't have a tremulous or shaky sound to her voice, or stutter, or hesitate, - she just didn't really know Joss's name and she didn't, um, really get with the situation. Of course, not hearing Sarah's correction might have been down to nerves, but, hey, it all worked out in the end right? The questioner goes down in fandom history, SMG comes out of it looking pretty darn good (we can go back to her various interviews and maybe reread some of those snappy remarks with a different "ear"), and Joss had his honor upheld.

OT in a big way (beloved by whedonesquers everywhere): Those who attended the "Serenity" panel will remember that it was preceded by Simon Pegg and Edgar Wright promoting the U.S. release of "Shaun of the Dead". They also showed a compilation clip from their british sitcom "Spaced", which got some of the biggest laughs I heard anywhere at the con. I just bought the first two seasons of "Spaced" as a boxed set from amazon.co.uk, and I have to tell ya - if you like geeks, and you like britcoms, you'll love it. Free promo out.

SoddingNancyTribe | August 08, 04:43 CET

"(we can go back to her various interviews and maybe reread some of those snappy remarks with a different "ear")"

Definitely. I can be pretty saracstic and sharp-tonged myself so maybe I would have a bit of a 'rep' too if I was an actor.

"They also showed a compilation clip from their british sitcom "Spaced", which got some of the biggest laughs I heard anywhere at the con. I just bought the first two seasons of "Spaced" as a boxed set from amazon.co.uk, and I have to tell ya - if you like geeks, and you like britcoms, you'll love it. Free promo out."

That was a funny panel, with a funny movie, and Spaced looked hilarious. I love the british humor, generally more than american humor. (Especially with the slew of horrible comedies and/or sitcoms Hollywood has spat out the last few years.) I grew up on Monty Python, Fawlty Towers, Not the 9 o' clock news, Smith & Jones, Blackadder, Mr Bean, Colin's Sandwich, the Good Life, Bottom,.....love the stuff. My wife thinks it's *just okay*.....sigh....

EdDantes | August 08, 11:24 CET

Monty Python, Fawlty Towers, Not the 9 o' clock news, Smith & Jones, Blackadder, Mr Bean, Colin's Sandwich, the Good Life, Bottom

Excelent list, though I never really watched Colins Sandwitch. I'd add Father Ted ("Here's a brochure for our church in Los Angeles. It's a bit out of date, we've added a second swimming pool and those girls serving drinks would now be in their twenties.") Coupling, The High Life, The Day Today, Red Dwarf, Fast Show and Big Train:

Coupling is great. I forced myself to watch the US copy and it's unbelievable how they can use 99% the same dialogue and yet ruin the show! Jeff in the original is a great character, the US version just comes off as sad and pathetic.

zz9 | August 08, 22:16 CET

Ed, I grew up on Python too. Not the Circus, but the movies. Some of my friends whined that they just didn't "get" the british humor. British, shmitish. I'm sorry but that's just not any excuse. There's no "getting" Python or Fawlty Towers. Its just pure funny. So, so, freakin' funny.

The facial expressions, the dialogue, the clumsy pratfalls and brilliant slapstick. I'm reducing it to the basest description here, but you get my point. All classic comedy, done with skill and unbelievable timing. Just the best. You can't beat it with a stick. All the Pythons are geniuses. (Well, Gilliam is a bit off his nut, isn't he?)

Willowy | August 09, 01:48 CET

Python. Yes. When I was but a small boy in England, I heard that folks in the U.S. (and elsewhere) also adored the Pythons, but I couldn't believe it: how could foreigners really *get* the mockery of class and quintessentially-English conventions that made up so much of their comedy? Now, of course, I know better, starting with my wife, whose appreciation of Python surpasses my own, and others like EdD, zz9, and Willowy. Comedy is obviously a universal language.

Anyone know of a paper or site looking specifically at pythonesque elements in Joss's work? I know there's some funny cross-over fanfic out there, but I wondered if anyone had catalogued references in BtVS, AtS, and elsewhere. (All that currently springs to mind is Spike's "holy hand grenade" shout-out in, um, "The Gift"(?))

SoddingNancyTribe | August 09, 02:08 CET

Python/Jossverse crossovers? Didn't kmow about those. I'll have to a bit of googling later...

herb | August 09, 02:16 CET

Didn't Dawn make a MP reference in 'Him'? Can't remember what, but I knew it was Python.

zz9 | August 09, 02:16 CET

I checked BuffyGuide.

Dawn: (to R.J.): "No one expects the Spanish Inquisition."
This is a quote from a Monty Python's Flying Circus skit. (You can find a transcript of the Spanish Inquisition sketch here.) The Spanish Inquisition began with the reign of Ferdinand and Isabella; it was authorized by Pope Sixtus IV in 1478 for the purpose of uniting Spain under one religion (Catholicism) — to "purify" or drive out Jews and other non-believers. In 1483, Tomas de Torquemada became the inquisitor-general for most of Spain. He remained the leader of the Spanish Inquisition for fifteen years and is believed to be responsible for the execution of around 2,000 Spaniards. Exactly how bad it was (how many were persecuted, tortured, and/or executed) is a controversial question, but it certainly wasn't a friendly tea party. This insitution remained operative into the 19th century, and was permanently suppressed by a decree on July 15, 1834.

All together now! "Our main weapon is suprise....."

zz9 | August 09, 02:21 CET

Nice call, zz9. Also found Spike's similar reference to the comfy chair in "Touched". Anya's offer to cook spam in "Spiral" is possibly also a(n oblique) contender.

Herb: look up "No-one expects the Watcher's Council".

Any more?

SoddingNancyTribe | August 09, 02:23 CET

And finally, in the spirit of credit where credit is due, my inquiries show that this topic has been discussed (prob many times) previously on Whedonesque, particularly by Zachsmind and redfern. See, e.g., archives, July 12, 2003. Which just goes to show that history repeats first as farce, then as tragedy. ;)

SoddingNancyTribe | August 09, 02:37 CET

Thank you SoddingNancyTribe. This:

http://xnet.ex.ac.uk/~creative-writing/johnfranglen/nobodyexpects.html

made my day :)

herb | August 09, 02:37 CET

Gotta say a big "as IF..." to Dawn even knowing a Python reference. She could've heard the line somewhere, but I doubt Dawn watched the Flying Circus. That was probably just Joss throwing that out there for us, knowing we'd get it. More likely (wanking here) she heard it from Willow or Tara. Maybe even Spike. I do remember the line though.

Willowy | August 09, 02:46 CET

Many references could be considered unlikely for the character. Buffys "She makes Godot look punctual" line seems way out of line for someone flunking every class at school. And her "Magic shop owners in this town have the life expentancy of Spinal Tap drummers" came out of left field.

As for Dawn and the Python I'd say one of the Monks was a fan.
"Right, childhood memories, check, school years one thru seven, check, family, check, what the heck, lets throw in some Monty Python!"

zz9 | August 09, 03:09 CET

heh heh...

Willowy | August 09, 04:11 CET

In Life serial
Warren: This mummy hand has ceased to be...
Andrew: It is an ex-mummy hand.

adventures in spelling | August 09, 06:31 CET

Good one! I'd expect the Trio to be Python fans!

zz9 | August 09, 10:44 CET

Hi.

Just to come to the defense of Buffy and Dawn, their intelligence levels, and their exposure to films and books. Firstly, Buffy did not flunk all of her classes at school. She graduated, therefore she at least passed. She's very smart--she got a 1430 on her SATs, and got into Northwestern. She just didn't apply herself that often in class...when she could go. Other things on her mind and all.

As far as her, "She makes Godot look punctual" line...well, *I've* never read the play "Waiting for Godot" or seen the movie adaptation, but I still know the title, and it's a safe bet that Buffy's heard the title too. So it's not that big of a humorous leap to say, "Well, if someone's waiting for him, he's probably tardy. Hey, there's a joke in here I could use..."

And with Dawn knowing Python--my sister's 18, and she's been in love with all the old Mel Brooks movies for years now. "History of the World, Part I," "Young Frankenstein," "Blazing Saddles," she loved Gene Wilder in "Everything You Need to Know About Sex..." she likes "Annie Hall," she's seen "MP and the Holy Grail," and even a few episodes of Flying Circus.

My point is, just because someone's young doesn't mean they don't know older movies and TV shows and such, or appreciate them. And if anything, the person who got her started liking Python and anything more than two decades aged, was Xander. He seems to be a wellspring for that kind of stuff, he loves his comedy, and he's a bit of a geek.

pat22_btvs | August 09, 16:47 CET

Gotta agree with you, pat22_btvs, that young people sometimes can have a huge amount of knowledge regarding older movies et al. I know I did: when I was 13 (let's see, that would be in the early-mid 1980s) all I listened to was old folk, blues, sixties pop and rock. I disdained anything recorded after 1970. Yep. And I had seen all the python stuff, Fawlty Towers, blah blah blah and would recite it endlessly and annoyingly. :).

I think Willowy's point was not that "young people" wouldn't know this stuff, but that *Dawn* wouldn't know this stuff. And I tend to agree with her. It didn't really fit in with anything we knew at that point about her likes or knowledge. In S5 at least, she came across as a fairly "mainstream" teen, not given to a love of absurdist comedy. That doesn't mean she didn't know python, but it wasn't at all obvious that she was a fan at that point, which rather made the inquisition reference stick out like a sore thumb (and do they stick out? That's the question . . .). All I know is that after listening to the Goons, watching Flying Circus, and reading Norton Juster's "The Phantom Tollbooth" as a boy, I could never take the world on face value again.

Which is why I kinda like zz9's explanation that it was a quirky monkish act to stuff that in her head: she knew the line, but monty python just hadn't been a big influence in her life hitherto.

SoddingNancyTribe | August 09, 20:36 CET