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August 15 2004

Enthralled to the night. New York Journal News compares vampire mystique through the ages, with heavy reliance on Buffy and Angel.

Article seems oddly dated when it mentions Dark Shadows "may soon be resurrected by the WB."

" Later, on the "Angel" series, the Powers That Be give them a second chance by making him mortal. But Angel learns this will only hasten Buffy's demise, and he persuades the Powers to return them to the moment before they were reunited in his mortality"

Can someone explain to me how Angel going back to being non-human did help Buffy??? Just the fact that she would have to "protect" him...???...is that it...or was there something bigger that I missed??? Just wondering...
I believe the writers forgot all about that storyline. Angel went to the Oracles and told them what the Mohra demon had said about the "End of Days". (That it's begun and others were coming, soilders of darkness") Angel wanted to know if they were telling the truth. The oracles as ambiguous as they could, said it was true. Angel asked "What happens to the slayer when the soilders come"?. The Oracles again with the ambiguity tells him she will die, but alot sooner than would otherwise. Angel begs for her life. Oracles say they don't have the power to do that, so Angel ask for them to take away his. As a vampire, he'd be better able to protect her when the time comes.

Ironically enough, she dies anyway.
I agree with the whole keeping vampires scary.

That's what is cool. Scary vampires.
I wonder if this "End of Days" refers to the Senior Partners apocalypse that Lindsey said is already in progress and in fact has been for many years now.

That could suggest that it is now coming to a climax and that Buffy and Angel will play an equal part in preventing it. Had Angel stayed human than this would not have been possible and Buffy would have died, erm ... again, though this time permanently i would imagine.

Movie trilogy storyline potential people!!! :)
ahhh...Demonic...i like...as I said in an earlier posting...in my mind's eye...i see Buffy & the slayers coming to the aid of our fang gang...maybe you are correct...the battle to come...interesting...
Exactly my thinking Coll.

Angel may have been ready to lay down his life and those of his friends if absolutely neccessary but he was not suicidal and would not have gone into that alley without an ace up his sleeve.

My guess is that, without informing the others in Team Angel so as to avoid anyone letting it slip, he got in touch with Buffy or Giles and let them know exactly what he was planning to do. Once they knew he was taking the Circle and the SP's down they would have been more than happy to ensure he succeeded and offer the help of the new Watchers Council and their slayer army.

The SP's send in their demon horde expecting to face four or five beat up heroes only to be encircled by the newly arrived slayers, as planned by Angel all along.

Makes a lot more sense to me than him taking on the SP's without using all the weapons at his disposal anyway.
Can someone explain to me how Angel going back to being non-human did help Buffy??? Just the fact that she would have to "protect" him...???...is that it...or was there something bigger that I missed??? Just wondering...

i really don't like the plot holes that one little episode introduced to the ENTIRE series. but i have a pet theory about the prophecy that made angel decide to give up his human life:

the demon told him that a "great darkness" was coming and that it was "the end of days." right? Angel Season 4 had that arc where there was an endless night, in the same year that the Buffy Season 7 episode named "end of days" aired. Angel played a crucial role by delivering the amulet to her in that episode. It's kinda sketchy, and still doesn't excuse the numerous times Angel puts his life in danger over the course of the series if he was really looking to protect Buffy in a future apocalypse, but it works. Maybe the writers wanted to tie up that "IWRY" loose end and put the pieces together at the last minute.
I really don't agree with the whole Buffy swooping in to save Angel and the Fang Gang Theory. As much as I love Buffy I think that idea would lessen Angel's show and lessen Wes and Gunn's deaths. I know that if Angel knew that "an aarmy of slayers" was on the way then he would have waited. Plus it would be kind of pointless to send everyone off by themselves to fight the members of the circle if he could have sent a bunch of slayers with everyone. And I think Angel would have told Wes about the slayers if they were coming because he would know that Wes would give up his and everyone else's life to take down the circle. It would just really dissapoint me if they make these movies and have Buffy come in and save Angel. It would just seem as though all the work everyone put into making Angel it's own show seperate from Buffy would have been a waste. I would like a movie about something like...during the alley fight just before sunrise everyone gets seperated and the movies would focus on them trying to find each other. They could have Gunn being nursed back to health by someone, Spike on the run because he tried to draw off the badies away from Gunn, Angel could be searching for Gunn he could be following Gunn's blood and he could get into all kinds of wackiy situations or if David doesn't want to come back they could just say that he got killed in the fight, and last but not least they could have Illyria desperately trying to find a way to bring back Wes because she is in love with him then after she brings him back we find out how Wes could use magic in NFA. They could say that he found a way to absorb all of Illyria's powers that they took from her in Time Bomb,but he hadn't mastered them yet when he fought Vail so he got killed. Then they could all meet up and take out the Senior partners or powers that be whatever they are because I kinda think that the SP and the PTB are the same people. The Fang Gang finally finds this out and goes to stop it. Just my thought because someone said for Buffy to come save Angel.
Wow ShotgunWes, BIG paragraph there buddy ;)

I actually do get your point thought that had Angel known an army of slayers were arriving he would have waited before sending all his people on their solo missions but one way around that is that calling Giles could have been very last minute and he was forced to go ahead before the slayers had time to get there.

As for your opinion that having Buffy arrive and saving the day might take something away from Angel as a seperate series, well maybe that is true to an extent. However from the point of view of Angel the character (who isn't going to be thinking about whether fans of his tv show would be bothered about Buffy turning up and helping out) it would be the most sensible thing to do. Logically Angel would call for backup rather than cause the certain death of himself and his team.

If you think about that from Angel's perspective rather than as a fan of his show then it makes sense right?
Considering that Buffy and her gang did not (acccording to Andrew) trust Angel and the Fang Gang, it seems unlikely that they would be rushing to the rescue. And for the longest time, of course, what was happening in L.A. did not affect Sunnydale and vice versa. Different apocalypses, different concerns. So no, I don't see them showing up.
Interesting article, even though the complexities of Buffy storylines always get condensed down to the point of outright inaccuracy. We don't know that the Powers had anything to do with Angel running into the Mohra; if they did, what was the reason? They intended him to become human? If so, why? It doesn't make sense. IWRY is a fun, intriguing episode, but it's so problematic for later storyline issues that I sort of regard it as existing in its own little pocket universe.

AFA the aftermath of NFA, I want to believe that in spite of Angel coming off as Mr. 'Kick Ass First and Ask Questions Later' Guy, he's quietly planning for contingencies behind the scenes, as befits a clandestine operator such as himself. I keep thinking he had time for more than just a conversation and a cup of coffee with Connor on the last day. Surely he must have conferred with Wes about the Mutari generator (the device Wes used to suck out Illyria's power and store it for, presumably, later retrieval) to see it was secreted somewhere inside the Hyperion, or the tunnels underneath, where the team would be able to get to it, enabling them to restore Illyria's powers to full force in time to destroy the demon onslaught. Joss has said Gunn most likely died, but there's nothing to stop a re-charged Illyria from using her time-travel powers to bring both him and Wes back from the dead (or at the very least Wes, since he was conceived as being vital to her expanding role in the 'verse). Then the reformed team would have had to battle the remains of the Senior Partner's forces as the repercussions of their mission reached Slayer central in Europe and Buffy began to reevaluate her estimation of Angel's betrayal... Cue credits for the future big screen Buffy/Angel film. ;)

I wouldn't want Angel and the gang's sacrifice to be undermined by a too-timely arrival of the cavalry in the hotel back-alley, but on the other hand, it makes sense that their strike against the SP would have reached Giles and Buffy's ears almost as soon as it happened, and that it would have probably gone far to change their minds about Angel's alignment. Stands to reason the Slayer and Angel would end up coming together again somehow, within days or weeks of the original W&H strike, even if not romantically (which, as a non-shipper, I really wouldn't want to see happen).

No more tormented exchanges or lover's quarreling between them, but standing shoulder to shoulder and fighting with complete unconditional support of one another against the darkness together? Sounds bloody good to me.

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