Whedonesque : Comments on 4674 : Parents Television Council's Angel page "changed".

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!

The funniest thing I've seen in a long time! Thanks for posting this, Simon, I got a great laugh out of this.

The best part: "TV Rating: TV-Y"

Invisible Green | August 16, 17:19 CET

Loved this part too: "...other content is just as disturbing, but overall, fun for all the family."

Invisible Green | August 16, 17:21 CET

OK, color me confused. BtVS is evil in every possible way, but Angel is great family fun. On second thought, color the PTC confused.

Madhatter | August 16, 17:55 CET

"changed" = "hacked" in this case, Madhatter...

tmhsiao | August 16, 17:57 CET

I suspect an Angel-lover in their midst.

The irony is that last week PTC got spanked by the Federal Communications Commission for a year old complaint against BtVS. Their allegation of indecent sex between Buffy and Spike was dismissed by the Commission whish said, the November 20, 2001 episode "was not sufficiently explicit or graphic to be indecent." The FCC further noted that there was "no nudity, and there was no evidence that the activity depicted was dwelled upon, or was used to pander, titillate or shock the audience."

Incidentally, Simon, to see if someone can figure out who was responsible (and give 'em their props!) -- where did you come across this? A forum member on our site discovered it early this morning/late last night, but perhaps there was an earlier source?

Whedonage | August 16, 18:07 CET

I got it from your site SaveAngel, I was doing my usual snoop round the Buffyverse fansites to see if there was any new and came across this gem.

Simon | August 16, 18:09 CET

I understand, tmhsiao. But the irony. Simon, I really hope Joss gets a chance to read your link. Should give him a good chuckle.

Madhatter | August 16, 18:12 CET

I know this bunch, and a more humorless group you couldn't find,
Bozell especially. I'm with tmhsiao--I think somebody hacked into this site and posted this curious bit of cognitive dissonance.

Hell, these are the people who don't greenlight "The Simpsons"! All the sexual content in Angel--the loofah, for starters..."Bang, I can!"...Fred climbing onto and straddling Gunn..."That's not a stake"...the language--dickwad, most notably--Spike hammering Harmony when he's re-corporealized...Eve's seductive striptease for the unseen Lindsey...Buffy licking ice cream off of Angel's chest...Angel taking Eve decidedly non-missionary style...and that's just off the top of my head...no way this show is deemed family friendly by the prigs at the PTC...

Bozell will doubtless be fuming when he sees this. Good.

Chris in Virginia | August 16, 18:13 CET

Hehe, very cool!

The one and only time that the PTC site will have anything that could be remotely considered as worthwhile on it! ;)

The Watcher | August 16, 18:23 CET

SaveAngel, just read your above. Whoever found it, give them a big yay! Made my week.

Madhatter | August 16, 18:43 CET

...and the funny just keeps coming!!! That was hilarious!...whoever is responsible...priceless!!!!

Coll | August 16, 18:55 CET

I'm just wondering how long it's been there; I haven't looked at that page in at least a month. What leads me to think it was an "inside job" is that show info is database generated -- rather than HTML. Hence, someone would need access to the actual database that holds PTC's files, and known what segments to edit to change the ratings, as well as include the humorous bits. I'm not putting it past a wily hacker, 'cause there may be some security hole which could be exploited in their ASP implementation.

But my money's on a temp or an intern -- 'cause they'd have nothing to lose by fiddling with the data.

Let's not tell the PTC and see how long it will stay :)

Of course, if their Web people were on the ball, they might notice a sudden jump in interest to that particular page.

[ edited by Simon on 2004-08-16 17:11 ]

Whedonage | August 16, 19:05 CET

Well the info on that page looked like HTML to me (I did a "view source" on IE).
Pretty amusing

WilliamTheBloody | August 16, 19:10 CET

I just spent a few minutes looking around the PTC site and i noticed the campaign they have working towards the cancellation of Nip/Tuck.

Now i have actually had no interest in that series at all until now, i was never offended by it in any way, it just didn't hold my attention.

Having seen what these people are attempting to do though has actually given me the incentive to give the show a second chance.

Congratulations PTC, your narrowminded views may just have got Nip/Tuck another viewer. ;)

The Watcher | August 16, 19:16 CET

I just wish I could see those beet red faces when they do find it. An inside job is even better. I can see those flaming torches and pitch forks now as the "towns folk" run around PTC. "We have a witch amoungst us!" I'm sorry, I must stop before I give myself a hemorrhage!

Madhatter | August 16, 19:29 CET

I read the ptc site rather frequently for no other reason than they produce some of the funniest things on the internet. So I say everybody in the US write your congressmen and write the FCC and tell them to tell the PTC to go to hell!!!!! Who's with me?

400lb_Gorilla | August 16, 19:37 CET

Hmm, well, while it seems to be thumbing it's nose at the PTC, it also seems to be dissing Angel too. Or is that just me? Kind of in a sarcastic way?(Like, 'oh yeah, spanking and violence and cursing, really funny) Maybe I'm just reading it wrong. Ah well, still funny as hell.

PS, oddly enough, I can't access their Buffy page....maybe someone's updating it too! :)

Crap, I got Novembered.....

[ edited by Simon on 2004-08-16 19:13 ]

Rogue Slayer | August 16, 19:39 CET

I'm with you.

SpikeBad | August 16, 20:04 CET

If you want to see something really scary... check out PTC's $2,181,800 fundraising boondoggle. Can we say "massive copyright infringement?"

One would think some of the series' producers who appear in the PTC's gunsites would file a Cease & Desist to prevent the creation of such an archive. (Nip/Tuck for example, which thankfully hasn't been stopped by PTC's tactics.)

Whedonage | August 16, 20:12 CET

"It would be wrong!" to hack...but oh so funny.

LOL. @Madhatter, I hope the intern, or whomever was responsible, ran for the hills immediately! I picture the offices in a sort of film noir black and white as the townspeople hunt down that witch by the light of their torches...

I'm with you too 400lb_Gorilla

Grace | August 16, 20:15 CET

To be honest i find groups like the PTC to be far more offensive than any of the programmes they protest against.

The idea that these people think that their personal views take priority over the freedom of the rest of the world to watch whatever they choose to watch is ludicrous to me.

Ultimately they have the freedom to NOT watch television at all if they so choose but wish to take that choice away from everybody else. Hardly the kind of people i would wish to ever get any kind of real power!

The Watcher | August 16, 20:20 CET

But come on guys, how would good, decent folks like ourselves know what to watch, if not for the PTC? How would we know what we like? How would we know what would titillate us....um, hmm.... No no, sorry. This group is important. I need to know what will and won't be good for me to watch. Saves me the trouble of deciding for myself!

Rogue Slayer | August 16, 20:36 CET

Family Values. "Me and Angel were never intimate. Except for that one time" Hee Hee Hee Hee. Sorry which couple came second in the HoYay couple in the Tubey Awards?

Also, has anyone read their summary of Nip/Tuck? Its hilarious. You can just imagine them with little Texas accents and flower dresses, with Ruth Fisher's face, reading it out "Oh its a cl*****s". Its very funny. No offence to anyone who's texan. Its just the way I imagine them

Oh God, maybe Whedonesque will be the next to be petitioned against for "gross mickey taking against the PTC" Aaaaahhhhhhh run for the hills!

Apocalypse | August 16, 21:08 CET

Demonic - I strongly recommend Nip/Tuck. It's the best thing on TV right now.

Invisible Green | August 16, 21:11 CET

Oh and get this........Friends is CODE RED!

Apocalypse | August 16, 21:18 CET

Puritan: Someone terrified by the notion that someone, somewhere might be enjoying himself. See also, Bozell, Brent.

Chris inVirginia | August 16, 21:20 CET

And they want teens to watch the O.C with their parents. It's "imperative!"

Apocalypse | August 16, 21:23 CET

While we've have had a chuckle at the Angel page and what they think of other shows, one thing I would like to highlight is that they are considering taking legal action against the FCC over the recent decision about Buffy.

Simon | August 16, 21:33 CET

While we've have had a chuckle at the Angel page and what they think of other shows, one thing I would like to highlight is that they are considering taking legal action against the FCC over the recent decision about Buffy.

Whew, I'm glad someone is. It's about time we stopped focusing so much on the homeless, the starving, the war victims, the victims of genocide, and get to the real threat in the world--Buffy the freakin' Vampire Slayer. Really, it should be on the revised 'Axis of Evil' list.

My god, do these people have a life? At all? And, btw, they still haven't noticed!

Rogue Slayer | August 16, 21:52 CET

"While we've have had a chuckle at the Angel page and what they think of other shows, one thing I would like to highlight is that they are considering taking legal action against the FCC over the recent decision about Buffy."

Just makes me wonder exactly how much time and money these guys are willing to waste to "clean up" television.

Why are they making such a big deal about Buffy when it has been over for more than a year and the majority of it's core fanbase already own the DVD's or video collections and so don't need to watch it on the box anymore anyway?

Are they trying to save the souls of the casual viewer who may accidently catch Smashed during a rerun on FX and be forever damned and corrupted by seeing that Buffy/Spike sex scene?

Wow, how proud they must be that they have such an important mission in life.

Sorry, that came out all wrong. What i meant to say was that they should get a life! ;)

The Watcher | August 16, 21:57 CET

They seem to Love Everybody Loves Raymond though.

Why am I not suprised...

sTalking_Goat | August 16, 21:57 CET

Perhaps a name change is in order ===> United States of AnimalFarm

redfern | August 16, 21:58 CET

Hm, Everyone Loves Raymond. Well I sure as hell don't! :)

Oddjob | August 16, 22:09 CET

What is it about Everybody Loves Raymond why do people bow down and worship it? I admit it's a good show, I watch it when I can, and I'll buy the DVDs when they come out, but I don't know why it's so highly regarded, it's just another sitcom. Compared to redlit shows, I can't see how Raymond is greenlit in all categories, there've been plenty of sex references (I remember one episode where the plot was Ray and Debra trying there hardest to get rid of the kids and Ray's parents, so they could have sex on Xmas day) in the show, the page says there's been no sex references since January, I'm sure there's been at least one, but I can't remember any specifics. I'm not saying Raymond should be labelled as unfamily friendly viewing, I just don't understand how they can accept what they seem to qualify as being bad in this show, yet Friends is evil.

Very funny that the Angel page still hasn't been fixed.

Do these people have any actual power, or is it just some people with very little lives and some webspace.

Ghost Spike | August 16, 22:14 CET

And Tru Calling is red all over the board. That's funny as hell.

SpikeBad | August 16, 22:24 CET

Funniest. Hack. Ever. Still laughing! I've had to take a snapshot just to preserve it for future amusement.

Wiseblood | August 16, 22:55 CET

It's good to see that the tinkering with show improved it's morality. On their "Top 10 Worst" shows to let your kids watch for the last few years:

2002-2003 - Angel = #6
2001-2002 - Buffy = #1 (yay!)
2000-2001 - Buffy = #3, Angel = #8
1999-2000 - Buffy = #4

ella | August 16, 23:03 CET

Oh, Buffy at #1 had to be season sex. That season rocked! And I don't care WHAT the FCC says, it DID titillate!

Rogue Slayer | August 16, 23:10 CET

I suprised that Buffy is no. 1 in 01-02. I think "The News" would have beat it hands down in the violence department.

I don't get the Everybody loves Raymond thing. Must be an age thing , I'm 23 and single and male. My girlfriends is 29, she watches it (she'll watch anything she doesn't have to think about too hard). All I can think when I watch that show is God, I hope my marraige isn't like that.

sTalking_Goat | August 16, 23:11 CET

The PTC can't bash the news because of first amendment rights. Otherwise, they'd be all over it.

Invisible Green | August 17, 00:03 CET

Somebody needs to write into the ptc and tell them they let their 22 year old son watch Angel because they had it listed as a family friendly show, and then go on to cuss them out for a good 20 minutes about how suck ass of a job they're doing and they just need to pack up and go home.

400lb_Gorilla | August 17, 00:20 CET

that would be so hilarious! Let's all write them letters about how much they suck and how irresponsible it is to have that kind of misinformation on a public website that people (apparently) look up to.

Illyria | August 17, 00:26 CET

Writing them would just result in the page being "fixed" and we'd lose all our fun. So keep it hush-hush, ya'all. The longer this goes on, the more likely it is to be picked up by a major mainstream news source. Now that would truly be priceless.

The media has no love for PTC.

Whedonage | August 17, 00:47 CET

Okay somebody write into cnn and alert them of the "attrocities" the ptc has afflicted upon my family. lol.

400lb_Gorilla | August 17, 00:58 CET

That'd be hilarious. Something like "I'd always avoided the TV series Angel as I take what the PTC says as my bible, loading up their page today (my homepage) I noticed that the they had updated their review for this show. Due to all the interest in this show after it's cancellation, I was intrigued, and watched an episode I was informed by some friends was good, the episodes name was "Hellbound". I watched, horrified as a man cursed with being a spirit was haunted by images and sounds, vomitted as a man cut his fingers off, and nearly had a heart attack when I saw the actress Amy Acker, naked in a shower. I now no-longer no what to believe in, my faith in the PTC, and the world, is shattered"

Now where's the email adress for CNN

Ghost Spike | August 17, 01:08 CET

LOL! I love it! One can only imagine!

Illyria | August 17, 01:13 CET

I give the PTC 6 hours before they realise that some how their web page has been altered.

Yep, you timed it right, Simon! LOL. (And BTW, I am shocked and appalled that someone would stoop this low, and mock these upright people who only want to keep us safe from spattering demon blood and lesbian-witch kissage. For shame, anonymous hacker, for shame!) ;)

Kansas | August 17, 01:53 CET

Thanks for that Kansas, I've amended my subject line. For those missed it, a copy of the altered page can be found here.

Simon | August 17, 02:01 CET

The rating is still TV-Y, though, guess they didn't catch that part. Unless it means something other than what I think it stands for, which is quite possible.

faith1984 | August 17, 02:05 CET

Ok, I'm a little slow, what does TV-Y mean?

electricspacegirl | August 17, 02:08 CET

It means appropriate for all children - The Y stands for Young last I checked but it may have changed.

faith1984 | August 17, 02:11 CET

They have a "File an FCC Complaint" button on their home page. That seems ripe for abuse.

Also, I see why they want to record everything, but why do they need to transfer old recordings to digital? So they can show how horrible television was twenty years from now? It seems if their goal is to protect children and get "bad" stuff off the air, they shouldn't need to preserve it.

Airawyn | August 17, 02:47 CET

Ohhhh-they finally took the rating y completely off.

Illyria | August 17, 03:01 CET

I love that they have a picture on their home page of Buffy moaning in pleasure while having sex with Spike.

electricspacegirl | August 17, 03:11 CET

I wonder who you can complain to about that picture on their home page lol

garda39 | August 17, 03:20 CET

Okay, just having another fun and informative trip around the wonderful world of the PTC and noticed some interesting things.

Of my other two obsessions outside of the slayerverse Stargate SG-1 seems to have gone under the radar of the PTC, considering the high level of violence in the show i'm surprised about that. Less surprising is that Alias has been given a red light.

Explain this to me though. How come, after giving Scrubs a red light for sex, an amber light for language and a green light for violence, the show was given an overall red light? Surely that would average out as an amber?

Oh and Friends gets a red light due to it's use of strong language like bitch and ass (wow, cover your ears kids!) and the fact that Joey has slept with a lot of women???

Sad, sad people!

The Watcher | August 17, 03:22 CET

I don't think it's an overall average for the end score, but more one red light is one red light too many. Don't see how bitch and ass can be considered enough swearing to get a red light.

Ghost Spike | August 17, 04:08 CET

Yeah Ghost Spike, that is pretty much what i figured about their rating system. Just seems kinda pointless to have an overall rating though when it can distort the facts so easily.

Basically, going off their system, a show could have no violence and no sex thereby getting two green lights and then still end up with an overall red light rating due to the fact that the main cast say bitch and ass regularly!

Is it just me or does that not seem like a fair way of rating a show's content to you guys. But then these PTC'ers could hardly be described as fair and openminded at the best of times.

The Watcher | August 17, 04:26 CET

Can some these guys up in one word:

'Moo'........

EdDantes | August 17, 04:40 CET

....*wondering what my naughty Spike fantasies would rate with the PTC system....is there something worse than red?*.....

Rogue Slayer | August 17, 04:40 CET

I'm coming in very late to this hilarious thread. I'm SO happy someone saved the greenlighted page. But the sobering thing for me is that it is people of like minds to the PTC who are not only trying to effect a change in what we can see on TV but are becoming very successful in "correcting" history and literature in children's textbooks. They have contributed to a dumbing down of school curricula that is having a devastating effect on education nationwide. And, speaking as one who is involved in the arts, there are growing numbers of stories of students wanting to study the visual arts and their history in universities -- but who want their history without any nudes. It is this attitude that is perverse, and far more "dangerous" that anything "naughty" in Buffy s6 or any subtext in Angel. It's not just a "cleaning up" of public spaces/airwaves, but an erasure.

palehorse | August 17, 05:30 CET

Right on palehorse. Not loving any type of censorship here. I agree with your statement regarding the erasure and dumbing down of our "history."

Sometimes I feel like we're (America) stuck in the 50's, morality-wise. Especially when it comes to widespread universal "knowledge." Is it just that we are happy with where WE are (The intelligent, good-natured folk)? That the loud and vocal evangelical factions are just unhappy so they are yelling louder and getting more attention?

I'm content with my life choices and personal freedoms and want it to stay that way. I get very nervous when somebody tries to tamper with that. In the name of what? Decency? Whose decency? And nobody better EVER try to tell me OR my daughter what to do with her body.

Getting back to the history thing... remember the furor when it was revealed that Thomas Jefferson had slaves? That Columbus was not a brave and stalwart explorer, but a rapist and thief? That our own government was responsible for mass genocide of indigenous Native Americans in the name of greed and commerce? I felt betrayed and tricked when I learned all the truth, and I was a young adult. I understand the need for country pride and patriotism, but hey, call the kettle black please. I look through my children's history books and they are a little better now than when I was in school. So there is hope. But as a parent, I feel it is my responsibility to fill in the gaps. Truthfully.

All the evangelical factions are wearing blinders, IMO. It's their way or NO way. Completely closed off. I have not one iota of respect for them or their condescending ways.

Willowy | August 17, 07:04 CET

I have no problem with sites that rate shows for parents, telling them what to expect in terms of sex and violence. It allows people to make informed choices, and that's good. But when they take it a step further and try to take the shows they dislike off the air, then I have a problem.

Airawyn | August 17, 07:13 CET

I've been lurking in this thread since this morning and this totally made my day :) I had to save the hacked version on my computer as a web archive.

This got me to reading the summaries of a few other shows they have on there and somehow, they made me laugh nearly as hard. I have no problem with sites that rate shows for parents either but my goodness, the standards these people have! (I also agree with Airawyn, it is a problem when they try to take the shows they don't find decent off the air.) My dad for one, who is probably one of the most traditionally moral people I know (and stiff! He says that I'm a terrible person if I have contempt in my tone towards my sister or refuse to gather her phone messages with glee!), cannot stand their prized 7th Heaven. Neither can my Sunday school-teaching mum. He won't even allow it on in his house! He gets really angry and tells me to turn off that 'ridiculous fake crap' right before he forces me to join the supper table - it's really quite amusing :)

[ edited by NatashaLea on 2004-08-17 06:57 ]

Natashia | August 17, 08:56 CET

"My dad for one, who is probably one of the most traditionally moral people I know, cannot stand their prized 7th Heaven. Neither can my Sunday school-teaching mum. He won't even allow it on in his house! He gets really angry and tells me to turn off that 'ridiculous fake crap' right before he forces me to join the supper table - it's really quite amusing :)"

Is it wrong of me to I say that somehow it does me really good to hear something like that??

EdDantes | August 17, 13:03 CET

August 16 2004